Album Discussions: Tales From Topographic Oceans
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58713
Printed Date: November 25 2024 at 17:17
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Topic: Album Discussions: Tales From Topographic Oceans
Posted By: KingCrimson250
Subject: Album Discussions: Tales From Topographic Oceans
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:53
 taken from www.rogerdean.com I couldn't fit the artist name in the topic but I'm sure we all know who we're talking about. Album Info here: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1828 - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1828 I'm sure this will be a controversial one! As I said in the thread, please try to keep discussion intelligent and respectful. By intelligent I mean avoiding comments like "LOL this album suxks" or "This album is a masterpiece and clearly anyone who feels otherwise lacks intelligence and is not a true prog fan." You can have whatever opinion you like so long as you are willing to explain your reasoning. By respectful I mean no personal attacks. Things might get heated, things might get passionate, and that's good. We love our music, we are passionate. Just try to remember to say "I disagree" instead of "You're wrong, you arrogant, inbred, zeuhl-loving jerk!" Also, this thread doesn't have to be discussing your opinion of the album. It could be anything TFTO related, whether that's anecdotes you've heard that have to do with the making/recording/touring of the album, or discussing the possible meanings of the lyrics, or wondering if "Autobiography of a Yogi" is any good. Well, I think that's it. Get crackin! |
Replies:
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:59
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I love the music. I'm not thrilled about the performance. It always sounds to me like they should have reheased it more before committing it to the album. Live performances of some of the tracks have sounded much better. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:07
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It reeks of self indulgence to me. I never play it now - any attempt to extract it from the shelf leads to a quick diversion to CTTE, The Yes Album or Relayer. Too ambitious, overblown and pretentious. 2* for me.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:11
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I loved this album from the first time I heard it. From the cultured modrn sound of side 1 until the descent into more primitve forms of the past on side 4. The music is so....descriptive.....THe Ancient, sounds ancient. Niot to everyones tastes I realise, but for me...a solid 5 stars!!!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:11
| One of the greatest ever, in my top 5 for sure. The definition of progressive rock. So much better than CTTE. |
Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:13
That's fine, but it might be a bit more helpful if you could explain why you see it as self-indulgent, over-blown and pretentious. That really applies to everyone as well. I guess the more in-depth you go with your opinions, the better. If you haven't got the time, that's life, but it seems to me that if you really want to engage in a good discussion, you've got to open by stopping and considering what qualities you think the album has, why you think it has those qualities, and how to articulate that. Saying that an album is "magical" or "rubbish" without going into why you think it's so isn't really conducive to discussion, which is, after all, the entire reason the thread exists in the first place. |
Hercules wrote:Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:14
Its what its all about.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:18
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Yup, few easy hooks, few sing-along choruses like CTTE to get sick of. Just plenty of dense, intricate, absorbing, complex beauty for which the layers unfold over time.
As I've said before, it's one of the few albums I've heard for decades that still surprises me with each listen. I can't say that about CTTE, Selling England, or Dark Side. Topographic is an unequivocal masterpiece and treasure of music.
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:20
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I wrote novels listening to this album. It is my favorite album of all time, the one I would haul with me to that fabled desert island if I only got one. Much of the time I can't bring myself to listen to it because it's so amazing. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:29
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Never heard of it. Is it a record from an exciting music group from England? just kidding  . I had to check and see if I ever reviewed it here to see what I thought of it. Hands down Roger Dean`s artwork is my favourite he ever did for Yes. When I first started listening to progrock aa couple of years after it was released I thought it was the most profound musical statement ever made. After getting into gazillions of other bands the fascination kind of faded away and I very rarely throw it on. Only when a certain friend comes over really.I bought the Keys To Ascension CD back in `97 and was suprised to see The Revealing Science Of God included with Rick on keyboards, the guy who left in disgust as a result of everything about it. Story goes that Vangelis flatly refused a job offer to replace him. I think Revealing Science was a good choice for the Ascension DVD/CD, definitely the best work from TFTO. ------------- |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:30
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I don't listen to it much anymore because it's been in my collection for so long and has already been listened to so many times. What do I like about it? The cover art. The side long tracks. Their first (and only?) two LP studio effort. It's the Rodney Dangerfield of Yes albums. For me, everything from The Yes Album through to Going For The One are essential Yes and five star worthy.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:42
 ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:45
^The Hokey Cokey" maybe? Edit. Sorry, I just checked and there is apparently an American version,,,which is what you are talking about!  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:49
 ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:52
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Yes superior in many respects to CTTE in my opinion. The 4 side long epics all providing complexity, balance and pure vintage prog. It was remarkable that after this great album they still managed Gates of Delirium, another side long classic.
I have always been confused by some of the negative hype around this album. Perhaps that lends further substance to the album's mystique. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:57
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I just re-read my review of it, and I haven't changed my mind. A flawed masterpiece, which is essential to own for all students and fans of the genre, if only to understand what happened in the mid 1970's as a result of works like it. At times, the album stuns me with its sheer beauty and breathtaking audacity. But it is exceptionally rare these days that I can listen to it all in one sitting, and I hold to my opinion that an album of the same length as CTTE would have been regarded as the epitome of progressive rock. I will never slate this album, nor, indeed, the band, who I have loved for over 32 years now. They certainly made far worse, and it can certainly be argued that, rather than wallowing in self indulgence, they were exercising the true progressive mantra by pushing all of the boundaries existing at the time. Unfortunately, most people thought they were wallowing in self indulgence  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:12
I had the great fortune to purchase and listen to the album (in 1994) before anyone told me it was supposed to be a self indulgent, overreaching load of bollocks  Actually, one friend did suggest that he was hesitant to listen to it because he was afraid Yes had gone too far with that one. But other than that, I didn't know it was supposed to be controversial and that even Yes fans had trouble liking it.I wasn't sure what to make of it the first few listens, but one day while I was canvassing neighborhoods for a citizens group I did work for at the time, I couldn't get the melody from one of the tracks out of my head ("What happened, to this song, we once knew so well?"....etc.). It quickly became my favorite Yes album of them all. Relayer supplanted it for a couple of months, but it was quickly back in rotation. For me, it's just an amazing piece of work. Great melodies in abundance, but not always repeated like they would do on earlier albums. Incredible atmospheres that seemed to always fit the theme of the piece. Howe's guitar playing is consistently great. Despite his unhappiness with the album, Wakeman plays some of his most beautiful atmospheric synth parts ever. Even the lyrics I feel are beautiful (I actually began to think that Anderson was really a Christian because of a lot of those lyrics........despite the whole album be based on a book by a Yogi). It's bascially more of an experience than an album. It's the rare album for me where the phrase "musical journey" actually applies and isn't just a cliche. But really, it's an emotional response that defines my love of the album. Something I can't easily put into words. It was the perfect album at the perfect time for me. I hardly ever listen to it now, as I listened to it so consistently for at least 5 years (and broke it out a few times a year for the next 5). My review of the album is far more objective than what I've written here, and I've considered rewriting it completely. When I reflect, 15 years after hearing it for the first time, I am sympathetic to a lot of the criticisms. It could have been a great single album of 4 10 minute tracks. The rest of the band could have held Steve and Jon back a bit, injected their own ideas more. But none of that happened, thankfully. But I can understand people not liking it nowadays (back then, I couldn't imagine why I seemed to be the only one of all my friends who loved the album so passionately). Anyway, it will always be one of my favorite albums and I will always give Yes credit for ignoring the expectations of their fans and the press and just doing whatever the hell they wanted. It does seem like a love it or hate it type album and I'm sure that is why. Personally, I like it more than Close To The Edge and Fragile, as complete albums (though there are individual tracks I prefer over any of the tracks on Tales......Heart of the Sunrise and Siberian Khatru specifically). Well, I've rambled on too long it seems. I guess I should have made this my review of the album. Maybe I still should? |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:14
Great. Not one page into the Tales from Topographic Oceans discussion thread, and we're talking about the friggin Hokey Pokey.  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:16
Yes, you should - it's very good ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:19
Its Hokey Cokey I tells ya! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:24
Done Thanks for convincing me |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:26
My introduction to TFTO was in a book that I bought some 20 years ago that listed the author's top 100 greatest and worst albums of all time. TFTO made both lists. It was described both as a work of art and masterpiece and as total rubbish made by pompus and arrogant musicians (or something along those lines). The first time that I heard anything from TFTO was when I was in attendance at my first Yes concert during the Union tour. They played this song that I didn't know that just went on and on and on and on and during this time most of the crowd decided to take bathroom breaks or go on beer runs. I was intrigued, but mostly bored because I didn't know what it was and it wasn't Owner of a Lonely Heart or Roundabout.   It was later when I was purchasing the back catalogue that I finally bought the double CD. Because it was a double CD I found it difficult to sit through and really only listened to it a few times before I put it on the shelf and decided that it belonged in the 100 worst albums of all time category. Over the years, I have purchased most of the Yes DVD's and Live albums and I have heard the various songs from TFTO played live both in person and on this other media. I also learned to appreciate and love long songs/epics which I never had the attention span for in the past. I have listened to TFTO a few more times in recent years and I do believe that the additional exposure to the individual songs and the changes to my listening tastes and habits have had a positive effect on my opinion of TFTO. The last time I listened to it a month or so ago, I absolutely loved it and now it resides in my 100 best albums of all time category. ------------- 
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:26
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I'd place it in my top 5 Yes albums, which is saying a lot since I love Yes for the most part. I like "Revealing Science of God" the best - when it hits the refrain, "What happened...." it's a real emotional moment. Chris Squire and Steve Howe sound really great throughout the album, very daring and emotive parts they play. Wakeman and White seem just a tad disengaged to me, but it doesn't hurt the music really.
It took me a while to like the album, but I think I seriously reconsidered it as an essential work once I heard "Revealing" live on the Keys to Ascension set, the performance "revealing" the subtle power of the piece. "The Ancient" is another great piece, with strange percussion and guitar cacophany and relatively few lyrics.
One common criticism against the album has always been about the lyrics. I've never quite understood this argument - I don't really understand what he's singing about either, but hey, it sounds good, so what's the problem? I couldn't care less if they're pretentious or not.... Anderson and Howe obviously spent a lot of time composing them, so they must have some strong feelings about them, so if its true to their thoughts and feelings, who am I to criticize them simply because I don't relate in the same way? ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:30
We're so pleased you love Toto. But I believe you are in the wrong thread. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:31
Exactly. I challenge anyone to tell me what the hell Jon is singing about in "Siberian Khatru," for instance. He was just as esoteric on Close to the Edge as he was on Tales from Topographic Oceans. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:32
 Why do I always think of it as Tales Of Topographic Oceans. It is a good thing that I do like Toto. Fixed. And yeah, go hokey pokey yourself. Or hokey cokey if that is what you'd prefer.  -------------
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:35
HOLD THE LINE!! ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 14:07
Right it's Tales From Topographic Oceans. That's why the lyrics are so weird. If it had been Tales Of Topographic Oceans, the lyrics would have been completely normal. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 14:16
Yeah, no talk about raping forests, I would imagine. http://www.theonion.com/content/news/raped_environment_led_polluters_on - Besides, the forests totally were asking for it... ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 14:27
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Sorry, but I am definitely one of the CTTE crowd. I don't know what could have been a great follow up to CTTE but this doesn't quite do it for me and I prefer Relayer to TFTO. My 'relationship' with TFTO has been rather see saw, liked it very much the first few times, and then when I revisited it after a long gap, took an intense dislike to it. Upon revisiting it still once more, I found it did not live up to my dislike and was actually quite tolerable , just rather difficult and frequently boring, all in my opinion of course. I cannot fault the sheer magnitude of ambition here though and I am not going to throw around accusations of pretentiousness because I think it was really courageous of the band to go for such a gigantic creation after the back to back successes of Fragile and Yes. You have to find a way to grow even after an album like CTTE and Yes put their best foot forward. Just...that I personally have got to pass as far as this one goes.
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 15:40
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I really love TFTO, it has some incredible moments. "Revealing Science of God" is one of Yes' best songs, and IMO second only to "Gates of Delirium".
That being said, I think "The Ancient" is padded horribly. The beginning section with the stacatto keyboard and the percussion (sounds like White was just hitting his sticks on the ground back and forth towards and away from the microphone he was recording with) just goes on and on and on! And suddenly things drop out and you feel it's finally over, and then it all comes in again for another couple of minutes. HORRIBLE I TELL YE! It has some really good ideas, including some great classical-esque guitar towards the end, but if any song deserved to be shorter it's "The Ancient".
"Ritual" is great too, I don't think it deserves some certain condescending remarks. I especially like the tribal stuff. Overall I feel TFTO>CTTE.
Oh and it's HOKEY POKEY! ------------- 
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Posted By: theBox
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 15:47
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Well it's my favourite album of all time too and I agree with finnforest about it being the definition of progressive rock. I would go as far as say it is THE QUINTESSENCIAL prog rock album. Now... every negative review that i have come across over the years seems to imply that the reviewer simply did not invest the time this album requires. Most people that bash this album seem to focus on the fact that it's not as catchy as CTTE (the title track of said album is virtually a 18 minute long verse-chorus-verse chorus type of thing). Well, duh???? That's progressive rock for you! What you just call "pointless noodling" I just call complex and out-of-the-box musical ideas which become A LOT clearer with repeated listenings. It complex music folks, give it time! ------------- |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 19:35
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Hokey COKEY! Damn Americans! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 12 2009 at 20:28
Okey Dokey  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 04:51
btw........Arthur bruised his upper arm....... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 05:33
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With Tales, Yes had some sort of sabbatical between the masterpieces. 'The Revealing Science of God' has a beautiful, promising vocal intro, but after this things become increasingly boring. 'The Remembering' has even less moments which can grab and hold my attention. 'The Ancient' is by far the best track of this album, with Steve Howe doing some good jobs. 'Ritual' is a song I could never get hold on. ------------- 
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Posted By: SergiUriah
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:16
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TALES...is an excellent album, as the most of Yes works in the 70īs. Incredible, I must say.
But I donīt preffer this up to CTTE, though for me is better than Relayer, thatīs certain.
Without YES, nothing would be the same. They were the magic in the prog world. ------------- http://img229.imageshack.us/i/bonfirma.jpg/"> 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 07:53
| I don't believe unknown facts and/or wise explanations can enhance the enjoyment of a music one doesn't like. It all down to personal taste in the end. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 08:02
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I found the second album (Ancient/Ritual) a bit harder to get into than the first (of course, this was almost 20 years ago now)....but ultimately I now find those tracks more rewarding, such that I slightly prefer the second disc over the first. One of my favorites, to be objective (or at least try to be) I'll say I find that The Remembering can drag a little bit for me in spots, but absolutely love the little acoustic sections in it ("don the cap and close your eyes..."). Favorite track would be "The Ancient". Everyone here should do themselves a favor and check out the live "Ritual" from Yesshows with Moraz on keys, it's freaking wild. Pretty much everything's already been said about this album - my friend micky said it best (paraphrase) - this album is what progressive rock was all about, whether or not you like the album. |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 10:20
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When I was starting to listen to prog I was told to steer clear of diving in the deep end straight away with Topographic Oceans (by the same guy that first played me ELP, which at the time was incomprehensible). So I gave myself a couple of years before I got my hands on it, and to my surprise I liked it from the first listen. Just parts of it at first, I couldn't possibly swallow such a massive moutful just like that. But those few interesting parts kept me returning to this album very often and in the end it has turned out to be a very good piece of music indeed. Possibly my most played Yes album after CttE, which is my favourite from them. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 10:43
| How does this sound? The album was a magnificent experiment, no one had done anything like it before and no one will ever do anything like it again. |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 10:48
| Purest prog ever made alongside Brain Salad Surgery. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 13:59
Let's hope this statement is true. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 15:20
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Personally, Tales has become my favorite Yes record. For starters, the album is a source of solace for me, especially when I have a lot on my mind and want to focus on something else. After listening to their previous and subsequent releases in the 70's, this album and Relayer have a definitive character in and of themselves. Fragile and Close to the Edge can be grouped together-similar sound and experimentation. But Tales is an entirely different animal. Its songwriting, while sometimes accused of excessiveness and an overabundance of filler, is richer and more prolifiic than anything else in their 70's canon. The melodies stand out to me more than anything; they are extravagant at timee, simple at others. Overall however, they never cease to amaze me. There is a world to explore throughout the entire album. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 15:29
hell... I wish it wouldn't be... but Brian is right. Nothing like it before... or in the 35 years since. No band would dare attempt something like it... or .... could even attempt to me thinks. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: June 14 2009 at 05:25
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I'd say this is the best played album ever produced by YES - and one of the best EVER. ------------- 
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: June 14 2009 at 05:29
What about VOYAGE 34: THE COMPLETE TRIP by PORCUPINE TREE? http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1458 - Porcupine Tree - Voyage 34: THE COMPLETE TRIP Not completely emulated, but quite close... -------------
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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: June 14 2009 at 05:37
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I got it for Ģ1 last year, and have listened to it a few times. It's the only Yes album I've heard, and it's ok
------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: Weston
Date Posted: June 14 2009 at 09:25
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I bought it when it was new. From the opening chant I was hooked. I remember thinking, "Close to the Edge was the greatest progressive masterpiece. Well, now we have four of them!" As the years went by, my opinion hasn't changed. It is a bit of a white elephant in that it's unwieldy. You can't easily listen to it all at once, but so what? You can't listen to Wagner's Ring Cycle all at once either. I usually just listen to one movement and I'm happy. Highlights of the album for me include: The opening chant that gets progressively weirder and more alien sounding until it erupts into the main theme. The most blistering synth solo I have ever heard toward the end of Revealing Science - and that is in 6/8 time. Yet it rocks like mad. Beautiful melodies in the Remembering and throughout. Almost King Crimson like opening of of the Ancient. Bizarre Alan White drum freak out in The Ritual. Recapitulation of previous themes in The Ritual giving some continuity to the massive thing. A rather mundane friend who was into just pop music summed it up nicely I thought. When I played him side 1 of the LP (at the time) he remarked, "The trouble with the music you like is that it wears you out and you don't need to listen to anything else then." Right. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 14 2009 at 10:01
whoa.... you seriously aren't trying to compare Tales to Voyage 34 are you? One album about an acid trip done by an underground band.... another album done by a world-class band on top of the musical world dealing with Shastic Scriptures .... to put it into context.... let's see Dream Theater do an album ...and knock it out of the park that could potentially alienate all of it's audience. it aint's happening.... music for 'art's sake' was a noble idea in the 70's.... it doesn't happen today. The nearest parallel... in fact might be the Decemberists. They could have... in fact DID... alienate and lose part of their long term fanbase by shifting style and direction in the pursuit of... not trying to sell albums... but pursuit of artistic ideals. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: June 14 2009 at 13:41
Hehehehe... what? ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 15 2009 at 15:07
I appreciate this comment and at least it is showing a little respect and maturity.
Now let's check something completely different ... where it came from ...
Music in those days was making a tremendous attempt to get some credibility away from the "pop" music complex, that is generally thought as non-music and un-important by a lot of academic and history of music pundits ... and to this end, the majority of folks that we consider "prog" were, in fact, the very people that were trying to validate music ... I'm sure you heard Pete Townsend refer to his piece as a "rock opera" .... but there was one problem.
Like today, radio and business is run by people that have no talent, desire or design in music ... it is all about the money and fabricating it in any way, shape or form ... and even magazines like Rolling Stone, have milked this to the umpteenth degree ... they used to trash Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze and one time a review said of Tangerine Dream ... "it's not rock'n'roll" ... just to give you an idea what mentality a lot of these musicians are fighting all the time. I mean .. c'mon folks ... look at the Canterbury scene and start counting off the professors now ... you woould be quite surprised!
Pete Townsend, at the time, got laughed right off by all the classical music crowd ... and I remember a review on one magazine (wasn't Time, but something from NY) that said that the young man was out of his mind thinking that a rock musical would be an "opera" ... he did say that it looked like a nice musical. And of course, a buffoon named Ken Russell made sure that the cultural element around rock showed in the movie so that no classical minded person would ever see it or even bother considering Tommy an opera ... a terrible injustice was born ... and to this day, we need to fight that attitude and many folks here in this board are doing the same thing ...
In the early 70's the birth of FM radio helped a lot of stations to play longer cuts and stuff that was less commercial ... and a lot of bands found this freedom really liberating ... you would not have heard King Crimson if it were not for FM radio ... because they never sold on the AM dial! They were not a "hit".
A lot of the people we love are better than average musicians ... and as such a lot of them tried a lot of things ... A LOT OF THINGS ... and some of them were very good, and some of them did not work ... it's hard not to see Jethro Tull create "A Passion Play" after he got to see Pink Floyd do a dancing thing to Atom Heart Mother in NY with Twyla Tharp ... and then a couple of kids get really adventurous and create something like Topographic Oceans ...
What was bad on these? Only one thing ... the rock press trashed it senseless ... that's what was wrong with it, and as such they intimidated many bands and prevented them from doing anything long for quite some time. And even bands like King Crimson were not exactly immune from this crap ... it was the largest character assassination that you ever saw ... all in the name of "hit" and "record company" ... although you never heard YES or Roger Dean complaint much. Or worse ... in the name of "rock'n'roll" the least talent driven droll kind of music ever invented!
No one, in this board, sits here and trashes Beethoven, or Mozart for what they did, or even is bizarre enough to go around saying that the Choir in the 9th is a bunch of sh*t ... so why the heck would you be upset and trash someone that is trying to raise his quality of art from simple hit song to something more honorable and respectfull?
Only a moron would trash that artist ... and not appreciate someone our own age ... trying to become larger than life ... and accomplish something with their music ... it might not be "perfect" ... but what the fudge is that word anyway ... so Mozart is perfect and Beethoven is trash ... screw you, we all would say!
Tales of Topographic Oceans ... is one of the best references and examples of what the human creative spirit can do ... it might not be perfect ... but saying that Layla is fabulous and this is not is really one of the biggest disappointments in the appreciation of the human spirit and creativity ever born ...
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Posted By: SilverEclipse
Date Posted: June 15 2009 at 15:12
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Brilliant. The most beautiful album I've ever listened to, and certainly one of the most rewarding experiences in music. Sure, some hated it (even in the band), but I do believe that Anderson and Howe created a true masterpiece with this one.
Deep, deep into five star territory; might be my favorite classic prog album. Only a few others from the classic prog period rival it.
Edit: and a note. Could someone explain why this album is pretentious? Pretentious would be acting like they are making the greatest piece of music ever with nothing to back it up. As far as I can tell, Anderson always had deep interest into Eastern philosophy and culture and needed a theme for an even-further reaching album than CTTE. They were justing making the music they wanted to make. They've had more technically impressive moments... so it certainly doesn't seem like they're showing off. Plus, they have the chops to pull this off and they know it.
You want to know what PRETENTIOUS is? Look no further than U2 to get your definition. Yes were nothing like U2. ------------- "and if the band your in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon" |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: June 15 2009 at 15:13
I agree with your post moskito even if Layla IS fabulous to my ears. I can't stand the music press what a bunch of idiots!
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Posted By: hitting_singularity2
Date Posted: June 15 2009 at 18:20
| I have not heard this album that much, at the most 2 times fully, But i have heard Revealing the Science of God multiple times, and it is one of my favorite Yes songs (top 15?) However, there are a few other 20+ minute epics that I find much more attention grabbing and easier to get into.. not that that is what makes a good epic. In conclusion, I shall listen to it a couple more times before reviewing it difinitively |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 15 2009 at 19:33
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yeah... that is an album that begs multiple... multiple listens before an attempt to review it.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: June 15 2009 at 19:37
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I may not know arts, but I knows what I likes Whenever I put it on I find it hard to focus but I find it enjoyable. Not sure I like Close to the Edge as much, but I may like Relayer more. Going for the One is good too... Tell you the truth they all sound kind of the same to me after Fragile and before Tormato  Its very reassuring when you have a four minute song that tells you where you are on the album with a timely "OWNER OF A LONELYYYYYYYYY HEART!" or "City of Love, City of Love, City of Love..." ah what a fool I am for thee, 90125  |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 15 2009 at 19:56
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*Sighs... all this talk about Tales -- now I'm going to have to listen to it...again...and try to see what everyone sees/hears in it. And yes I've been listening to it (not all that often lately and admittedly, but who keeps going to a dry well expecting water after a while?) for 30+ years and still don't get it. I find the first three minutes of Heart of the Sunrise more compelling -- more an example of this band reaching for and achieving greatness -- than the total of Tales. But back to the well I go. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: June 16 2009 at 04:48
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This is the actual Yes album I love to bits, not Close to the Egde or Fragile, or whatever, THIS IS THE ONE!
I can't think of many more albums that I just want to close my eyes to and be taken on a marvellous journey to, just floating along and appreciating every tone.
I find this one to be the album that they'd been working towards for years, a culmination of everything that went before.
Meaning: I quite like it.
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Posted By: hitting_singularity2
Date Posted: June 16 2009 at 09:00
I guess i will review in in a couple years then :P for now i'll stick to the new bands that don't have many reviews |
Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: June 16 2009 at 09:07
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Okay I tried to listen through it again last night but I only got through Revealing Science All I can say is the recording job was terrible, it sounded so flat. Either Napster (its a pay-service now which bought the name) uploaded an old version or it just is outdated recording wise. Your not getting 90125 highs and lows (I'm obsessed with that album). Second thing: Like the other classic yes albums it just sounds like a jumble of sound with nonsense lyrics. It is too spacey. Relayer is much better, I was right, and Close to Edge may be better despite the fact It's never caught me while Tales is pretty good background music. Going for the One is probably better, more concerted. There is a lot of BS going on with YES music from this period. Is the stream in the background in Relayer or Tales? Too much noise! Muddy sound. That's my complaint. Onward ELP (Ducks) EDIT: OMthelackofG, I just hit YES ALBUM, which I own, oh man, I love it, oh man, I'm crying... so good. |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: June 16 2009 at 15:19
| Just listening to TfTO now and I have to say that after the first track it starts getting dire indeed. Not my cup of tea I'm afraid. Now Yessongs - 10/10 |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 17 2009 at 10:43
No shame needed......a great album. Hail 90125! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: June 17 2009 at 11:10
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I realized that I never actually posted my opinion here... This was actually the first Yes album I ever acquired, and the second prog album, so it was a bit of a plunge in the deep end. I loved it at the time, though, and it ended up getting me into Yes pretty hardcore. After a while, though, I became kind of torn. Revealing Science of God is, in my mind, an incredible cut and one of the band's best songs. The Remembering, on the other hand, has very few memorable moments (ironically enough). The keyboard bits are cool but other than that this track just isn't very interesting, and sitting through twenty minutes of it is almost impossible for me. The Ancients is actually one that I haven't heard in a long time, so I can't really comment on it. I do think that Ritual is a pretty good song. I think it's best in the context of the album, as it recaps on a lot of themes, I believe, and so it's a lot more powerful if you're hearing it at the end of the other three, rather than just on it's own. Regardless, I still think it's a pretty good song. Not a big fan of the Nous Sommes Du Soleil thing, but other than that. This song actually seems to be hinting a fair bit towards Gates of Delirium, in my mind, though I doubt they even had conceived of Relayer when recording this. I haven't listened to this one in ages though so perhaps I should go give it a spin and comment on it later. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 17 2009 at 15:15
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I would just like to record my absolute angst that this masterpiece is currently #99 on the Symphonic prog chart. I mean, really- Phil Collins-led Genesis is higher than this? ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: June 17 2009 at 17:10
My view exactly, especially the bold type - thanks for saving me the keystrokes ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: June 17 2009 at 17:16
AMEN!!!  -------------
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: June 17 2009 at 21:26
But is GENESIS and in this site if it's from them and from the 70's that means that automatically becomes a masterpiece of progressive music
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Posted By: 88melter
Date Posted: June 20 2009 at 21:16
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I agree with Slartibartfast about the YES recordings that are the essence of their recorded artistry. I do not agree with the other writer that the Tales record sounds under-rehearsed. I am not at all clear about what performance or arrangement aspects could have been improved. The vocals are impeccable, the guitars clean, and the keys and bass are played and mixed to just the right flavor.
Mr. Wakeman's complaint was always that the music was "padded", i.e., there were/are lots of transitions between various themes and melodies. I really admire the musical content of these cushions, and find them to be an essential positive feature of the music. Perhaps he came around to that way of thinking so as to perform "Revealing Science" with conviction. Perhaps he simply played that side so as not to have to play Ritual anymore! who knows...
I have recently read a book called the Handy Religion Answer Book. It discusses the Shastric Scriptures in some detail, and gives the origins and current status of the Hindu sects that revere this literature. The information matched nicely with the lyric content that Jon and Steve wrote.
The Ancient was always the side I had the hardest time listening to when I was younger. Now, the abstract slide guitar and percussive keyboards, leading to the "Along Without You" segment are really a wonder to hear. The critics at the time, and everyone who reviewed the album at the time was quite critical of it, took all the usual potshots that were then being aimed at ambitious rock albums. BUT, TIME magazine, not exactly an avant-garde publication, named Tales to its top 5 albums of that year, this top 5 being from ALL genres. So, its quality spoke to rock fans, classical fans, music industry types, and critics with a wider background than just the rock press. So, you can tell that my positive opinion about the music is undimmed by time, and perhaps is even born out by the fact that we are still talking about it all this time later. By the way Alan's drums never sounded better than on that record. 88melter ------------- 88melter |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 06:53
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^ They did: on Gates Of Delirium!
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Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 08:19
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For me one of the greatest albums of Yes. Summarizes the best of the prog rock movement for me. listening live in some bootlegs forms it make stronger my opinion. Great record and the latest cd version have two bonus -------------  |
Posted By: 88melter
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 12:11
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Alan White's drum sound on Gates was too bright and brittle. The sound on Tales was so natural, without excess highs or that slam/crack thing that too many drumsets get. Gates is a tremendous recording, of course, and, it now occurs to me, that, since the music is all about war, battle and the aftermath of struggle, that the harsher percussion is actually quite suitable for the music.
88melter ------------- 88melter |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 12:35
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The Revealing Science of God should be in any Top 5 Epic list. The Remembering is a well-done tranquil 20 minute song The Ancient is a odd number for me, yet it features Steve Howe's magical acoustic guitar in the second half Ritual is another masterpiece as Revealing Science of God, just that Ritual emphasizes all the moods of the the other 3 songs into one which makes it so f**king awesome |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 12:45
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Tales From Topographic Oceans is a good, interesting album. Admittedly, it hasn't a tenth the exact-moment-of-ignition-and-spark focus that so characterised the incredible Close To The Edge, and replacing Bruford is difficult to impossible (White's alright, but Bruford at that time was second only to 73's Carl Palmer and Billy Cobham efforts). It's a departure in style from CTTE, abstract, chaotic and pushing the envelope of sounds rather than songs... Four stars for me, shows off Yes' immense collective talent, pretty interesting for what it does, and three of the songs are pretty strong, even without the CTTE altogether-memorability thing. On the minus side, the folky bits of The Remembering feel quite awkward, and it simply isn't as memorable or as dedicated as Close To The Edge. Not sure whether I'd put it over the follow-up or not. And also, Anderson's lyrics and vocals were absolutely perfect for the band and the album on CTTE, those on TFTO simply do not convince me in the same way. Much more limited to imagery and feel than the poetic accuracy he had on CTTE. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 12:47
 Agree on every bit! Alan White would shine in Relayer, but by no means he'd reach Bruford's level. |
Posted By: 88melter
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 13:23
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I am trying to figure out what Bruford's level is, exactly, or even approximately.
Mr. White is a different musician. He ought to want to reach his own level. Or do the writers here mean that there is some technical or purely musical level that Bruford had going that Alan could not match or equal?
Bruford has said in print that he always thought of YES as a jazz band with vocals. Jon and Chris said they welcomed Alan into the band because he was/is a rock drummer, and YES was/is a rock band. So, while Bruford made the sound of early YES so distinctive, with his rimshot sound, (developed to overcome volume issues onstage, by the way), and his Blakey-style approach to drum fills and patterns, Alan made the odd time signatures ROCK, and put more emphasis on the on beats, not the syncopation.
So, I like Alan's playing and his overall approach. I don't like the sound of his snare these days, it's a big tin can to my ears, and his technique stinks, as he keeps the sticks on the drumheads and cymbals, instead of using the rebound, and allowing the heads and shells to resonate.
Bruford is an honest, dedicated musician with a real sense of his own personal aesthetic. Alan is a friendly, easy-going rocker who anchors the band with good basic drumming, and is more interested in scuba and boats than music these days.
oh, well...
88melter ------------- 88melter |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 13:35
Do I have to paddle you again, boy?  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 13:43
You wouldn't dare! |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 16:09
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I think Tales from Topographic Oceans has some of the best Mellotron moments Wakeman ever put out there. That's part of the magic. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 16:32
Good post. Perhaps an unfair, perhaps a fair analysis. Yes(,) musicians aren't aiming to be the same overarching figure, one archdrummer or archkeyboardist, and they do have different styles. On the other hand, there either is or isn't a reasonable level of comparison (particularly when you're comparing a replacement to a predecessor) they can be subjected to... some synthesis of perceived technicality, musicality and received enjoyment (and none of those, not even technicality is objective [which matters more, being able to play faster, having more 'touch' or being able to play in more complex time signatures, or being able to play using more complex techniques - e.g. multiple-stick work etc.?]). So, essentially, Bruford's subjective 'level' as proposed by those three criteria, is much higher than White's... again, that's not saying White should try to be Bruford, merely that I think White's combination of skill and style isn't as interesting and 'good' to hear as Bruford's. Carl Palmer and Billy Cobham, for instance, both have markedly different styles to Bruford - I'd probably prefer them, so maybe their 'level' would be greater in my mind. Technically, I admit, I know nothing about drummers, my top five would come out as Palmer, Cobham, Bruford, McCulloch or Hiseman and Morello or something like that. It'll probably change as I get more acquainted with different drummers. Now, clearly, there's a jazz tinge to that, so obviously I'll think Bruford's a somewhat more interesting drummer... what's interesting about his particular work, however, is that he generally has a real feeling of space and contrast, and his intensity when he goes after it is more sharp, powerful and impressive for me. So, that's two respects where Bruford simply comes across as better; I don't really care all that much for the steady beat-keepers relative to the unique sticks-men. Well, I could have said all this in a couple of sentences: Bruford adds something to the sound of bands he's in, I can usually tell if it's him drumming, and I almost always actively notice his work. The same goes for Phil Collins, Jon Hiseman, Guy Evans, Mitch Mitchell, the works... Alan White's 'just' a drummer to my ears, so he doesn't get the same attention from me. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 21 2009 at 16:37
Totally agree, also in the Moog, eh! Without Wakeman that album is nothing. |
Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 08:07
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I was fortunate enough to hear this album at a very young age. Also had Fragile, Yes Album, Close and Yessongs, but Tales became the one that mesmerized me. And I love it to this day. It's always hard for me to say such-and-such is the greatest album ever; even if imho I still have trouble saying it, after all there have been many great albums. But, "gun to my head" as the saying goes, I don't mind stating it's the greatest. Certainly my life would be different and somehow less were it not for the existence of this music.
-------------  Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: Dominic
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 00:59
Well saidThis is the type of high flown, long winded, over thought; self indulgent, playful, and sincere love of exploring melodic possibilities separates a band like Yes from a respectable non pretentious band like Green Day ------------- 
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