Dumb question from a musical leighman
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Topic: Dumb question from a musical leighman
Posted By: Kotro
Subject: Dumb question from a musical leighman
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 13:46
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In conversation a small doubt arose, which none of folks gathered knew a correct answer to, even though I'm guessing it should be common knowledge around here. Here goes:
What does the 9/8 on the Apocalypse section of Genesis' Supper's Ready stand for? The most common answer was time signature, but no one was really sure. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Replies:
Posted By: Endless Wire
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 14:02
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Correct. 9 represents nine beats per measure, while the 8 indicates that an eight note counts as one beat. ------------- . |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 14:02
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Hi Kotro It was, indeed, nine beats to the bar which gave the sub section its unique name. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 14:09
Thanks, guys.  ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 16:22
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I see this thread got a lot accomplished... ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 16:43
OK, but it I'm not mistaken the proper spelling is layman. Just saying.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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progrocker2244 wrote:Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 17:51
Also, technically the Apocalypse is poly-rhythmic, at least so long as Tony gets his say  But yes, the majority of the section is in 9/8, hence the title |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 22:53
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9/8 is not 9 beats each of an eighth note. 9/8 is compound time. It can be counted as 9 beats each of an eighth, but the true beat value is 3 beats each of a dotted quarter. If the top number is divisible by 3 but larger than 3 then the time signature is compound. You need to divide the top number by 3 to get the beats. You then divide the bottom number by 2 to get the beat value. This will give you 4 which is a quarter note, then to make a compound note, add a dot to the value to make a dotted quarter as the beat value. This is important, because 9 eighths notes to a measure produces different stress values to 3 dotted quarters per measure. 3 dotted quarters to a measure actually gives you a waltz stress pattern.
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 01:35
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^ but then again 9/8 doesn't always mean 3-3-3 ...
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Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 01:56
| True PF. In the case of the apocolyse section Hackett is doing some nice syncopation on counts 3, 5 and 9 with the high F# in the repeating sixteenth - sixteenth rest - sixteenth - sixteenth rest... chord pattern. Banks' organ would seem to be standard 9/8 over the top of it, giving the organ a nice flowing feel, while the guitar gives it that broken punch. So in this case there is the keyboard using a standard approach to 9/8 and the guitar with the syncopated pattern driving it on. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 04:00
This is complicating the things, even if it's true (and it is). And it's yielded from someone raised on Western music. Just quickly swing your body in 2+2+2+3 |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 06:14
This is true, and its strange that he's opted for the more complex spelling. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 04:46
It's called ignorance.  ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 07:06
Ha! It literally is ignorance, but in your case absolutely forgivable. Presuming of course that you are Portugese.  If you are English though..... SHAME ON YOU! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 20:59
I could be wrong (knowing me I probably am), but I'm pretty sure the riff is in 9/8 but the keyboard solo is in 4/4. -------------
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Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: May 29 2009 at 23:06
| Nah- all instruments are in 9/8 in the apocalypse section. A good percentage of the organ section are just 3 groups of sixteenth notes per measure. It may be the waltz feel (I'm not saying this is straight forward 1 2 3) in the organ over the staccato guitar chords that is confusing the issue. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 19:53
OK. Thanks for clearing that up. -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 20:16
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Just to clarify, 9/8 is only a compound time when phrased that way, example: if the accents are on beat 1 and beat 7. However, if used like in Dream Theater's "Voices", where they simply play a 4/4 beat and add a quaver on the end, it is still technically 9/8 but it isn't compound in the slightest. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |