I used to like it... now I enjoy prog

but I still think he wrote some beautiful songs, and I think Unplugged In new York is very nice

I've never liked any of Cobain's music, and just don't get why he is supposed to be such a heroic, important figure.

Oh wait -- he killed himself and died young. That's "cool," right?

Anger, despair and self-loathing are such admirable traits....

Have you seen Courtney Love?

I'd first blow my head off too. E'gad, what a monster.

I like some Nirvana stuff, but I never thought it to be much more than teen angst whining for the coffee drinkin' heroin crowd. Too bad they didn't know how to tune a guitar.

I think the way our society tends to idolize (famous) suicides (and celebs who die young in general) is SICK.

The music's angst & anger may "speak" to the young, but KC was a grown man.

Suicide is a supremely violent, hateful, cowardly act, which deeply and permanently hurts those who love the victim. A brave, intelligent adult knows when to seek help. Men stay to face and fight their problems, deal with reality, and try to improve their lot -- boys just run away.

Cobain was obviously deeply troubled and sick, and lacked the strength of character to fight his demons -- why is he then a hero?

(The songs did NOTHING for me, either. His pain and anger was not mine, and I found the music grating.)

No insult meant to all the Nirvana/KC fans out there, mind you, but Cobain's posthumous elevation to near-sainthood reflects an unhealthy death-obsessed youth and music culture, IMO.

Sometimes, your best career move, when you've climbed too far, too fast, is to die -- the gorier the death, the more we seem to relish it.

Sick.

down-go wrote: Have you seen Courtney, love?

OHWHATAGIVEAWAY! Flirty!

Have you seen my etchings, darling?

(Courtney who, BTW?)

Jim Garten wrote: if you listen to Dave Grohl's 'Foo Fighters', you can perhaps see a hint of where the true songwriting genius really lay within Nirvana.

Never did anything for me.

Hello all. I've been lurking on this website for a long time, but finally decided to log on and post when I read the following comment.

Peter wrote:   Suicide is a supremely violent, hateful, cowardly act, which deeply and permanently hurts those who love the victim. A brave, intelligent adult knows when to seek help. Men stay to face and fight their problems, deal with reality, and try to improve their lot -- boys just run away. Cobain was obviously deeply troubled and sick, and lacked the strength of character to fight his demons -- why is he then a hero?

Dear Peter.

I am not a Nirvana, or Kurt Cobain fan. Far from it. But I do know a thing or 2 about clinical depression. It is absolutely crippling, at it's worst. It literally takes away your desire to even function in life and perform daily activities. How do I know this?, because I've been there, and so has a lot of other people. Attitudes like yours make me absolutely sick to my stomach. Unless you've been there yourself, you can not know the depths of hopelessness it causes, you cease to think in a rational manner, like a mentally healthy human being would. You start to think that maybe your loved ones would be better off if you were no longer around, because they wouldn't have to be burdened with constantly worrying about you anymore. This is a topic I take very personally. To say what you just said is to spit in my face. PLease be more considerate other peoples feelings.

Cobain may not have been a hero. But he was no coward either, he was simply somebody who had reached a point where he felt he had no hope, and he's not the only one. Unless one knows how that feels, one really has no right to judge, IMO.

Laurent wrote: Hello all. I've been lurking on this website for a long time, but finally decided to log on and post when I read the following comment.   Peter wrote:   Suicide is a supremely violent, hateful, cowardly act, which deeply and permanently hurts those who love the victim. A brave, intelligent adult knows when to seek help. Men stay to face and fight their problems, deal with reality, and try to improve their lot -- boys just run away. Cobain was obviously deeply troubled and sick, and lacked the strength of character to fight his demons -- why is he then a hero?   Dear Peter.   I am not a Nirvana, or Kurt Cobain fan. Far from it. But I do know a thing or 2 about clinical depression. It is absolutely crippling, at it's worst. It literally takes away your desire to even function in life and perform daily activities. How do I know this?, because I've been there, and so has a lot of other people. Attitudes like yours make me absolutely sick to my stomach. Unless you've been there yourself, you can not know the depths of hopelessness it causes, you cease to think in a rational manner, like a mentally healthy human being would. You start to think that maybe your loved ones would be better off if you were no longer around, because they wouldn't have to be burdened with constantly worrying about you anymore. This is a topic I take very personally. To say what you just said is to spit in my face. PLease be more considerate other peoples feelings.   Cobain may not have been a hero. But he was no coward either, he was simply somebody who had reached a point where he felt he had no hope, and he's not the only one. Unless one knows how that feels, one really has no right to judge, IMO.

Welcome Laurent.

i understand were you come from (well sort off) my brother had/has the same problem.
It was really frightening to see him deteriorate, and pull back from society, alienating his best friends, and in the end even me and our parents. It's going better with him the last year, due to extensive and exhausting help, in addition with some medication. But the patient has to accept his illness before a treatment can work I think.

I'm just glad he has put the worst episode behind him and is working on further recovery.

Hope you are all alright again. And again welcome to this miniature world of progressive rock afficionados.

Laurent wrote: Hello all. I've been lurking on this website for a long time, but finally decided to log on and post when I read the following comment.   Peter wrote:   Suicide is a supremely violent, hateful, cowardly act, which deeply and permanently hurts those who love the victim. A brave, intelligent adult knows when to seek help. Men stay to face and fight their problems, deal with reality, and try to improve their lot -- boys just run away. Cobain was obviously deeply troubled and sick, and lacked the strength of character to fight his demons -- why is he then a hero?   Dear Peter.   I am not a Nirvana, or Kurt Cobain fan. Far from it. But I do know a thing or 2 about clinical depression. It is absolutely crippling, at it's worst. It literally takes away your desire to even function in life and perform daily activities. How do I know this?, because I've been there, and so has a lot of other people. Attitudes like yours make me absolutely sick to my stomach. Unless you've been there yourself, you can not know the depths of hopelessness it causes, you cease to think in a rational manner, like a mentally healthy human being would. You start to think that maybe your loved ones would be better off if you were no longer around, because they wouldn't have to be burdened with constantly worrying about you anymore. This is a topic I take very personally. To say what you just said is to spit in my face. PLease be more considerate other peoples feelings.   Cobain may not have been a hero. But he was no coward either, he was simply somebody who had reached a point where he felt he had no hope, and he's not the only one. Unless one knows how that feels, one really has no right to judge, IMO.

Sorry, Laurent -- I apologise for my callous, hurtful words.

To be honest, I too wrestled with (near) clinical depression for a year os so in my 20s, and I know and love someone else who has suffered from it, so I should have been more diplomatic/sensitive in my post. (I guess I was talking mainly to myself....)

Mea culpa.

My real point (very clumsily made) was that violent death and suicide is not cool -- despite the music biz/rock culture seeming to portray it that way, at times -- and that I simply don't find Cobain worthy of adulation.

But I do pity his pain, and the pain of all who, through no fault of their own, suffer from depression.

I wish you health and happiness,

Sincerely,

Peter

Peter wrote: Laurent wrote: Hello all. I've been lurking on this website for a long time, but finally decided to log on and post when I read the following comment.   Peter wrote:   Suicide is a supremely violent, hateful, cowardly act, which deeply and permanently hurts those who love the victim. A brave, intelligent adult knows when to seek help. Men stay to face and fight their problems, deal with reality, and try to improve their lot -- boys just run away. Cobain was obviously deeply troubled and sick, and lacked the strength of character to fight his demons -- why is he then a hero?   Dear Peter.   I am not a Nirvana, or Kurt Cobain fan. Far from it. But I do know a thing or 2 about clinical depression. It is absolutely crippling, at it's worst. It literally takes away your desire to even function in life and perform daily activities. How do I know this?, because I've been there, and so has a lot of other people. Attitudes like yours make me absolutely sick to my stomach. Unless you've been there yourself, you can not know the depths of hopelessness it causes, you cease to think in a rational manner, like a mentally healthy human being would. You start to think that maybe your loved ones would be better off if you were no longer around, because they wouldn't have to be burdened with constantly worrying about you anymore. This is a topic I take very personally. To say what you just said is to spit in my face. PLease be more considerate other peoples feelings.   Cobain may not have been a hero. But he was no coward either, he was simply somebody who had reached a point where he felt he had no hope, and he's not the only one. Unless one knows how that feels, one really has no right to judge, IMO. Sorry, Laurent -- I apologise for my callous, hurtful words. To be honest, I too wrestled with (near) clinical depression for a year os so in my 20s, BTW, and I know and love someone else who has suffered from it, so I should have been more diplomatic/sensitive in my post. (I guess I was talking mainly to myself....) Mea culpa. My real point (very clumsily made) was that violent death and suicide is not cool -- despite the music biz/rock culture seeming to portray it that way, at times -- and that I simply don't find Cobain worthy of adulation. But I do pity his pain, and the pain of all who, through no fault of their own, suffer from depression. I wish you health and happiness, Sincerely, Peter

Thank You

tuxon wrote: Laurent wrote: Hello all. I've been lurking on this website for a long time, but finally decided to log on and post when I read the following comment.   Peter wrote:   Suicide is a supremely violent, hateful, cowardly act, which deeply and permanently hurts those who love the victim. A brave, intelligent adult knows when to seek help. Men stay to face and fight their problems, deal with reality, and try to improve their lot -- boys just run away. Cobain was obviously deeply troubled and sick, and lacked the strength of character to fight his demons -- why is he then a hero?   Dear Peter.   I am not a Nirvana, or Kurt Cobain fan. Far from it. But I do know a thing or 2 about clinical depression. It is absolutely crippling, at it's worst. It literally takes away your desire to even function in life and perform daily activities. How do I know this?, because I've been there, and so has a lot of other people. Attitudes like yours make me absolutely sick to my stomach. Unless you've been there yourself, you can not know the depths of hopelessness it causes, you cease to think in a rational manner, like a mentally healthy human being would. You start to think that maybe your loved ones would be better off if you were no longer around, because they wouldn't have to be burdened with constantly worrying about you anymore. This is a topic I take very personally. To say what you just said is to spit in my face. PLease be more considerate other peoples feelings.   Cobain may not have been a hero. But he was no coward either, he was simply somebody who had reached a point where he felt he had no hope, and he's not the only one. Unless one knows how that feels, one really has no right to judge, IMO. Welcome Laurent. i understand were you come from (well sort off) my brother had/has the same problem. It was really frightening to see him deteriorate, and pull back from society, alienating his best friends, and in the end even me and our parents. It's going better with him the last year, due to extensive and exhausting help, in addition with some medication. But the patient has to accept his illness before a treatment can work I think. I'm just glad he has put the worst episode behind him and is working on further recovery. Hope you are all alright again. And again welcome to this miniature world of progressive rock afficionados.

Thank you for welcoming me with your kind words Tuxon

Jim Garten wrote: I'd just add my words of welcome to you, Laurent; speaking as one has struggled with that vile disease for over 5 years (currently in my 3rd SSRI free month), I understand how difficult it must be when you see a posting which could (maybe) be percieved as belittling the condition. Enjoy your time in the Forum, Laurent, and welcome

Hi Jim, thanks for the welcome

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and I want to begin with this topic because I like Cobain so much... Well I think most of people discovered Nirvana when they were teenagers, and that's very important because this kind of music can help you in a way... Cobain had much rage inside of him, he seemed to be so close from teenagers who feeled safe thanks to him... It's not like GOD you know, and I agree when you say it's stupid to consider someone as a legend because he died young etc... But I think some artist do something of pure and important in society, like Lennon or Morrison, and Cobain did it too.

That's all, nice forum... :)

Not to take away from the legacy of Mr. Cobain, but I think he did more for the rise of heroin abuse in the US and Europe than any figure in pop music....before the 90s, you had to be really hardcore to use smack....needles and the like....but with the high grade sh*t coming out of Afghanistan after the Russian war and the rise of A grade heroin production in Columbia, snorting heroin become an easy way to get off and get hooked REALLY quickly.  So, kids saw Kurt the cool guy junkie and emulated their hero without the ugly reality of needles.....the fashion industry, too, played its part.....hell, I guess it's a bit harsh to pin such a tag on poor ol' Kurt.....I was never really into his music, but the Unplugged in NY CD was a real gem.

Laurent wrote: Hello all. I've been lurking on this website for a long time, but finally decided to log on and post when I read the following comment.   Peter wrote:   Suicide is a supremely violent, hateful, cowardly act, which deeply and permanently hurts those who love the victim. A brave, intelligent adult knows when to seek help. Men stay to face and fight their problems, deal with reality, and try to improve their lot -- boys just run away. Cobain was obviously deeply troubled and sick, and lacked the strength of character to fight his demons -- why is he then a hero?   Dear Peter.   I am not a Nirvana, or Kurt Cobain fan. Far from it. But I do know a thing or 2 about clinical depression. It is absolutely crippling, at it's worst. It literally takes away your desire to even function in life and perform daily activities. How do I know this?, because I've been there, and so has a lot of other people. Attitudes like yours make me absolutely sick to my stomach. Unless you've been there yourself, you can not know the depths of hopelessness it causes, you cease to think in a rational manner, like a mentally healthy human being would. You start to think that maybe your loved ones would be better off if you were no longer around, because they wouldn't have to be burdened with constantly worrying about you anymore. This is a topic I take very personally. To say what you just said is to spit in my face. PLease be more considerate other peoples feelings.   Cobain may not have been a hero. But he was no coward either, he was simply somebody who had reached a point where he felt he had no hope, and he's not the only one. Unless one knows how that feels, one really has no right to judge, IMO.

Hi Laurent

Been there and still go there and to other equally dark places sometimes, so please accept my best wishes of health, peace and happiness . 

Nirvana? Nope.

Emotion can't make up for (an extreme) lack of skill in this case.

Not to take away from the legacy of Mr. Cobain, but I think he did more for the rise of heroin abuse in the US and Europe than any figure in pop music....before the 90s, you had to be really hardcore to use smack....needles and the like....but with the high grade sh*t coming out of Afghanistan after the Russian war and the rise of A grade heroin production in Columbia, snorting heroin become an easy way to get off and get hooked REALLY quickly.  So, kids saw Kurt the cool guy junkie and emulated their hero without the ugly reality of needles.....the fashion industry, too, played its part.....hell, I guess it's a bit harsh to pin such a tag on poor ol' Kurt.....I was never really into his music, but the Unplugged in NY CD was a real gem.

cobain was depressed to see teenagers take drugs because of him. People are naive, reality is there, he wouldn't kill himself if drugs were soooo goooood...

I'll bet Cobain was depressed to see the copycat junkies....he wasn't a dumb, insensitive guy.  The rock media....esp. magazines like Uncut from the UK...demand their pop/rock stars to have rough edges to better promote their product.  The record companies would rather see an artists dead after six or seven LPs.....the post-mortem sales skyrocket!

I think Kurt was a depressed guy....a SERIOUS and often unrecognizable disease, but that's beside the point.  Kids are impressionable and tend to ape the behavior of their heroes.  Kurt was a poster boy for heroin use whether he liked it or not!

Crimson Prince wrote: I have read them and am a bit frightened. He seemed to be a pretty angry guy. Does anyone here like Nirvana and the music of Kurt Cobain?

Yeah, he's one angry, psycho, dimented drug addict. Nirvana sucks imo

Nirvana and Kurt Cobain never appealed to me.

I thought the whole "We didn't wanna be famous (so we carried on writing hit songs)" thing was pretty lame.

Each to his own I guess. We all have personal tastes.