I don't smoke or do drugs but I did experiment a few times with LSD ( One of my buddies used to make it in the chem lab when we were at university). Ocassionally I have a swig of some good Scotch Whiskey handed down to me from my dearly departed Uncle John from Glasgow, Scotland but that's as far as I go these days. The big mistake I made with the LSD was to listen to Guru Guru UFO while on it. That wasn't enough, so I had to listen to Amon Duul and Brainticket as well as a few others. In particular early Krautrock is often associated with illicit drug use and I was curious. Believe me I don't advise the use of any drug and don't need drugs to enjoy good music but at the same time during my brief excursion into the world of LSD (it only lasted a few weeks) I discovered some things I wouldn't have otherwise. Anyone out there conduct any similar experiments? 

Yeah,

everytime when I listened to Hawkwind....!

I listened to the Ummagumma studio album on a heavy dose of magic mushrooms once. Don't think I'll be doing that again anytime soon.

I did like most Pink Floyd acid trips I had, though if I'd had a bad trip on the first few times I dosed, I woundn't have done it so many times after. LSD opens your mind to new things and that's where a problem can arise. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Relayer was a trip with hallucinogens. I was watching anime at the same time (I was in the "synching up" phase at that time, ala Dark side of the Rainbow) and it was a crazy story that went right along with Gates of Delerium, the war part and all.

Fun stuff, but I wouldn't do it again. I was much younger then. I don't encourage anyone to try chemicals though and I'm fully against them. Stick with the organic, unmodified goodness.

Just about anything is amazing on LSD, and you may discover all sorts of things.

Taking acid is like playing Russian roulette with your mind. Bear that in mind next time - treat it with respect.

I highly recommend Gong and Hillage for a cool trip. Hawkwind are better on shrooms. Floyd are good on anything.

Since most musicians experiment with drugs at some point, yes, the listening experience may be enhanced by taking them as the listener.

Just go easy, people - remember Syd, Jimi and all the other casualties.

Well let me just say that as a teenager, I don't do drugs or drink or smoke. And that I wouldn't understand why you need to take drugs to experience music better or more by taking them. It's kind of an insult to the artist if you have to drugs to fully appreciate the music, because it tells them that they haven't been able to do a good job at making their music a great experience.

And we all know that Pink Floyd is still good to listen to without acid.

I've smoked pot a few times so far... and one time I was listening to Nils Petter Molvaer and to The Doors. It sounded... different .

I'm very curious about LSD, but I wouldn't know where to get it

I, personally, enjoy experimenting with drugs. Pink Floyd, for one, sounds so much better when you're stoned (you thought they sounded good before...)

Keep in mind that I am NOT a stoner, by any means. I simply enjoy toking up every now and then in order to expand my mind and enhance my perception, especially when it comes to music.

MUSIC is the only drug for me

I never did drugs and never will...

(Drugs: alcohol is NOT included )

Fantom JSK wrote: Well let me just say that as a teenager, I don't do drugs or drink or smoke. And that I wouldn't understand why you need to take drugs to experience music better or more by taking them. It's kind of an insult to the artist if you have to drugs to fully appreciate the music, because it tells them that they haven't been able to do a good job at making their music a great experience. And we all know that Pink Floyd is still good to listen to without acid.

I would NEVER encourage a teenager to start taking drugs, Fantom, but as for it being an insult to the artist, please remember that very many great albums featured on these pages were conceived, composed and recorded very much in an altered state of consiousness (Floyd, Gong, Hawkwind,etc. etc. etc.). It is not surprising that such music is easier to access when listened to in a similar state of mind.

Tell 'em, Jim!

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH JIM, MY DRUGGY DAYS ARE LARGELY BEHIND ME(AND BELEIVE ME I HAVE DONE EM ALL!!) AND WHILE I DO OCASSIONALLY LIKE A SMOKE ITS MOSTLY BEER AND OUZO NOW(IN MODERATION).........I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE MAKE TRAIN WRECKS OF THEIR FAMILIES AND THEIR LIVES THROUGH DRUGS AND HAVE ALSO SEEN SOME SUICIDES (I AND A FREIND ONCE SPENT HOURS TRYING TO TALK ONE GOOD FREIND OUT OF BLOWING HIS HEAD OF WITH A GUN. IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST FRIGHTENING EXPERIENCES OF MY LIFE.........THATS WHAT DRUGS CAN DO TO YOU)

Beer and music, my only drugs, though I did have a nicotine problem for a while. Shook that off 18 months ago.

Hope none of you have used "crank" aka: methamphetamines. I've seen too many people become blithering idiots from the stuff. Drug induced psychosis. A real problem here.

Forget Pink Floyd and others...Timothy Leary 'seven up' and Golowin 'Lord Krishna' are absolute must to trip under LSD.

I did some drug experimentation in my youth but thankfully I never liked any of it, nor did I find my music listening pleasure enhanced by these experiences. As a musician my playing level falls way off after a few beers and so it is that I keep a pitcher of ice water perched a top my Trace rig while onstage. 

I have lost a few fellow musicians to the heavier stuff over the years. On the other hand it's largely undeniable that LSD (and who knows what else) greatly contributed to the writing of some very creative music.

Here's the joke I am sure most of you have heard before;

Q:What did the deadhead say when he listened to The Grateful Dead not on drugs?

A: What a crappy band.

I have a friend who is a deadhead who can't figure out why I can't get anything out of this band. I guess you really have to be wacked out on something to appreciate it.

 Good one!

Though "The Dead" are not one of my favourite bands, they've actually written some good songs over the years. Two that come to mind: "Friend of the Devil" and "Touch of Gray."

No need for drugs to enjoy basic blues-based rock....

Vibrationbaby wrote: I tried many many times to try and get into this band by borrowing my buddies tapes he's got over 300 Grateful dead bootleg tapes. Just does nothing for me. He's the same way with Gentle Giant.

 Yeah Vibe, I understand. I don't own any of their elpees, but I was pleasantly surprised by both of those songs, and a couple of others whose titles I can't recall.

 Re the Grateful Dead's seemingly inexplicable HUGE following, I think that it has more to do with an ability to recapture a time and place, and the band's (and fans') attitude and personality (plus the accompanying carnival atmosphere of their tours and concerts), than it does with their basically unremarkable music. 

THE BEER PRAYER

Our lager,
Which art in barrels,
Hallowed be thy drink,
Thy will be drunk,
At home as I am in the tavern.
Give us this day our foamy head,
And forgive us our spillages,
As we forgive those who spill against us,
and lead us not to incarceration,
But deliver us from hangovers,
For thine is the beer,
The bitter and the lager,
Forever and ever,

Yeah, me too at one point. I thought to myself I must be missing something but no, it's pretty unexciting music.I agree with Peter comparing it to a carnival.Another artist I tried to get into but couldn't is Frank Zappa although there is definitely more to him than the Dead.

I rather enjoy some (by no means all) of the GRATEFUL DEAD catalog, but the only GD album I would unreservedly recommend to a serious prog fan would be "Terrapin Station".

Interestingly enough to me, while the average Deadhead rabidly raves about the bands live work, I don't enjoy it that much.  I much prefer their studio stuff where there is some semblance of structure in the composition and playing.

Touch of Grey, whatever album that was on, summed up my GD collection. I think I sold it for food during a crisis. 

Great Video though.

   I'm afraid that (cough) I can't (cough cough)      go along with the (cough) blatent    suggestion in this thread that (cough cough cough) the recreational use of the leaf of a commonly    available plant (cough) in order to alter one's time / space perceptions     for a period of (cough) time    should be........ 

..........uh, what was I saying, Man?

 lol, now let's go rob them glaucoma patients!

Glass-Prison wrote:  lol, now let's go rob them glaucoma patients!

 Ha! But the herb has made us all non-agressive....

 Let's just go grab a roti, and kick back with some good prog instead!

 BTW, Storm, your post above was VERY FUNNY! Well done!

As my name suggests, i can't listen to prog whitout at less smoke vegetal!

All the 70's prog was made under psychedelia exept some rare exceptions, like zappa who was against drugs(but not his musicians!)

My favorite under influence?

PF, Gong, Amon dull, agitation free, clearlight, etc...

" One of my buddies used to make it in the chem lab when we were at university)"

Not likely, even with a masters in chem and a well stocked lab, the ergomine necessary for the process is very hard to come by, and obtaining it would likely earn a visit from the feds.

That aside, music is absolutely amazing on acid, haven't done it in many years, but it's quite amazing.

Not only "spacerock", (a la Gong, Hawkwind, Brain Ticket etc.) is "enhanced" by a state of herbally enduced happiness. Notably,an appreciation of good reggae is particularly improved by the heady atmospere of sweet blue smoke.

This in mind, and harking back to my earlier "prog-friendly non-prog" thread, try "Reggae Fi Dadda", from Linton Kwesi Johnson's brilliant album "Making History".

Tokin' Prog fans who find themselves in Amsterdam should check out Coffee Shop "Pink Floyd" for great sounds to chill out to.

oliverstoned wrote: "but cha don't have to give up hope and ya don't have to give up dope (until you do) and ya don't have to change your ways you just have to be what you are my friends today ... "

Just listened to that in the car not half an hour ago!!! After the Gong, the Bong!

Quote:

" One of my buddies used to make it in the chem lab when we were at university"

Not in the UK either.

After Operation Julie, which busted former Reading University graduates who devised a way of getting higher yields of LSD, UK police by law have to monitor solvent uses in the local university laboratories and other labs - a considerable amount over and above that a PhD chemist's normally  needs were used by those guys.

Never felt a need of those drugs - good music always got me high. Arthur Lee & Love managed that 18 months ago reenacting "Forever Changes" live in Leicester, probably the best rock gig I've ever seen - previously held by Beck Boggart & Appice with Flash as support, in the early 70's at Loughborough Uni., (also the last ever venue of the Bonzo Dog Do Dah Band). As a fringe weekend hippy, I watch friends who were paid up proper weekend hippies (i.e. folks who did the weekend happenings, but had a proper day job the rest of the week - but they would get to see early Floyd or Softs), get doped up on a bottle of cough medicine  with morphine as the active ingredient, and off to the London underground clubs they would go - and be just about sober at 9am the following Monday. They alway came back with great albums (discovered Touch that way) - but moonlighting in record shop on Saturdays was my passport to underground and the new progressive music.

raggy wrote: Not only "spacerock", (a la Gong, Hawkwind, Brain Ticket etc.) is "enhanced" by a state of herbally enduced happiness. Notably,an appreciation of good reggae is particularly improved by the heady atmospere of sweet blue smoke. This in mind, and harking back to my earlier "prog-friendly non-prog" thread, try "Reggae Fi Dadda", from Linton Kwesi Johnson's brilliant album "Making History". Tokin' Prog fans who find themselves in Amsterdam should check out Coffee Shop "Pink Floyd" for great sounds to chill out to.

For me all music are enhanced by "vegetal", even classical

i remember having a great trip on ravel under mushrooms!

To Raggy

To pass beyond the countless worlds
The eternal wheel
The ceaseless tides of selves
Ever passing away before your eyes...

All life's light that I've seen...
Here before me. . .

Hare hare supermarket !
Hare hare supermarket !
Hare hare hare supermarket !
Hare hare London bus !
Hare hare ladies' lavatory...
Hare hare hare hare hare hare...

Yas, indeed! Dub Reggae is the ideal accompaniment to that bag o' sensie...

Watch out for those druggy Gong lyrics, though;

Don't you remember why you came to Everywhere?...
The piece of mind that you came to find has disappeared ...
For all that you could take was piece of cake and wine ...
And now you'll have to wait another time ...

Maybe you're here for the giggle
Maybe you're into the puzzle
Maybe you're blowing the bubble
Maybe you're all in a muddle

The more you know
The more you know
You don't know what you know...

There's a hole in the morning,

It's the holiday you're born in,

and the old man is yaw-aw-awnin'!

Jim Garten wrote: Peter Rideout wrote: non-agressive Gotcha - long have I dreamed of discovering a Peter Rideout spelling mistake; they said it couldn't be done, they said I was mad, they said I was on a fool's errand. Well here it is, guys - IN YOUR FACE!! Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha,Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha Wibble

(Adopts Bugs bunny voice) Ugh! Ya got me, pal. It's, it's... gettin' dark -- the lights are going out! I feel... kind of cold! Hold me! I'm scared! I'm too young to die!... Mother!

Cue "Death March," then Loony Toons theme.

It must have been Storm's herbs that clouded my mind, oh Lyme of Slyme....

The first psychedelic/proto prog' band of Perú Traffic Sound had very druggy lyrics, their music was inspired by Pink Floyd and other psyche bands, but as in the song I copy, they had to hide the lyrics and leave a positive message at the end because in the late 60's we had a Military Government that almost banned Rock with the excuse that it perverted the mind of the young.

Suzette is a cake which is often baked with marihuana.

TIBET' S SUZETTES
(You can' t appreciate a gift from God)

Feeling' lonely to starve in Tibet?
No, I will not go and let you die.
Cease all your pleas and eat my suzettes
Gently, guaranteed to get you high.

Feeling' lonely to fly in Tibet?
No, I will not go and let you cry.
Take all my friends and ten more suzettes,
If you need more wings, I will spare a dime.

Feeling' lonely to fight on Tibet?
Now I think I will go and let you die.
Eat what you kill but no more suzettes,
You can' t appreciate a gift from God!

Their earlier lyrics were more evident (like in Meshkalina) because in those years there was a democratic government.

Iván

Just a few venting rants to settle me down :)

1. I have done a lot of things- quite a bit of hallucinogens when I was younger, for instance, and it does tend to make you more receptive emotionally and able to be more observant to subtle details in music. Marijuana can have a lot of effects; I find that it doesn't really increase my enjoyment of good music (any more than it lets me laugh at bad comedians, anyway) but it does often allow me to focus on the music (i.e., "get into it") rather than get distracted by other things. Both ecstasy and alcohol tended to make me less inhibited and thereby much more likely to attempt to dance in my own sad way :)

2. Alcohol is quite a bit worse than marijuana, for your body and for society. This is not pro-pot propaganda, this is statistical and medical fact. Hallucinogens are very dangerous, especially mentally, but when treated with respect they're generally still less dangerous than alcohol! I stay far away from the extreme stimulants (meth, coke, etc) and the extreme depressants (heroin and the other opiates) and I do not encourage or recommend anything to anyone- I can't be responsible, for one thing, and there are honestly a lot of morons out there who can ruin a good thing pretty quickly. LSD and MDMA were once legal here in the US, you know.

3. Stop bashing the Dead! They made some great music and some not-so-good music, but they're not just a hippie drug band. For one thing, the lyrics of Robert Hunter are some of the most vivid and moving narratives ever utilized in modern music. Through the years the Dead managed to combine blues, R&B, psychedelic rock, American folk and bluegrass traditions, experimental free-jazz, and other influences into one of the most distinctive sounds ever. And they stayed pretty true to their ideals throughout their career, which is much more than can be said for some of the greats of the prog genre. You can like 'em or not as you please, but they definitely deserve more general respect.

Ok, I'm done ranting. All this talk has made me nostalgic for my trippy days :/

James-Lee

James Lee wrote: 2. Alcohol is quite a bit worse than marijuana, for your body and for society.

Don't underestimate the danger of marijuana... it has been discovered that you can get schizophrenic from smoking a lot of pot...

(not that I'm against marijuana )

any music recommendations for music during first time mushrooms?

...it's for a friend...

Joren:

Schizophrenia is a quantifiable, defined medical condition: it cannot be "caused" by the ingestion of any substance.  Perhaps traits "suggestive" of schizophrenia can be caused by various drugs, but drugs don't cause schizophrenia.

5 minute solo:

Is Frank ever not smoking pot?  

Goose:

Re mushrooms, I can recommend quite a few groups, not all of them prog.  Of the prog groups, early Genesis and early Tull work well.  So does Brian Eno's "Ambient" period.  For "heavier" music (though you need to gauge yourself here...), try Hendrix, Zep, any classic 60s (Joplin, etc.).

Certif1ed:

Right you are: the reaction of a particular person to the ingestion of any particular "drug" is dependent entirely upon individual metabolism, and one's general psycho-emotional (and, I would argue, spiritual) state.  You are also only the second person I know (other than me) who actually researched things before doing them.  Except for pot and hash, I researched every drug I took, so I knew  how it would affect me biochemically, and what it could and might do - at least to the degree that it is possible to know that from whatever was published at the time.

Most drugs affect the transfer of serotonin between the axons of the brain, which is why it "enhances" the senses.  Indeed, the reason that some people who use LSD "smell" colors and "see" sounds, etc., is because the LSD is messing with the sensory signals that are controlled by the serotonin.  And because LSD also affects the cerebral cortex and optic centers, this is why many people see "trails" and other visual effects, including auditory and visual hallucinations.

Ultimately, the use of drugs for "recreational," "educational" or other "benign" purposes is, as you suggest, a "crapshoot."  One may feel/believe that they will be able to handle the effects of hallucinogens; however, unless one has a very good "sense of themselves" - i.e., honest self-appraisal, humility (yup), and self-awareness vis-a-vis one's psycho-emotional make-up - I would not recommend the use of anything stronger than pot and hash.

Peace.

5 minute solo wrote: Is Frank smoking dope in that picture?

maani wrote: Is Frank ever not smoking pot?

James Lee wrote: Frank with dope? nope- I don't think he ever did it, and I know he was against it- he had strict rules for the musicians he toured with, they used to have to sneak away to get high...he was way too naturally weird to mess with chemicals :)

I have written a paper about mr. Zappa and I know exactly what he thought about smoking pot:

He did try it himself once. He didn't like it.

He was against pot. If he caught a band member smoking it, he kicked him out.

But he was an advocate of legilisation. It was his opinion that everybody had the right to find it out for themselves.

And I'm pretty sure that this information is correct. I did a lot of researching...

Under the influence of a fantastic amount of TRENDY CHEMICAL AMUSEMENT AID, they proceed to perform lewd acts, rip each other off for small personal possessions, and dance with depraved abandon in the vicinity of a six-foot pile of transistor radios (each one tuned to a different station).

Are you not satisfied with my answer?

Look its a black and white photo on a white background and it's very difficult to tell and I was mearly (is that spelt right) voicing my thoughts!

5 minute solo wrote: Look its a black and white photo on a white background and it's very difficult to tell and I was mearly (is that spelt right) voicing my thoughts!

No offense was taken.

Frank smoked cigarettes.

Could his death from prostate cancer have been related to this evil habit?

Personally im anti-drugs. Maybe I should have stated my view earlier because that's what the discussion is about.

I totally respect your stance on drugs, but the thrust of this thread is to find out who has conducted any experiements with drugs and music, and whether the latter is enhanced by the former.

Unfortunately, since I am not particularly keen on drugs, I have found that for me, as well as a great number of other artists, drugs not only give a different spin on how one enjoys music (note: different, not better), they also give what feels like an enhancement to both the composing and performance of music.

Again, I have to be ambiguous. I have found that I have had some of my best and most coherent musical ideas after smoking cannabis - although I have always gone on to develop these ideas in a "clean" state of mind, as I work better that way. What happens is that smoking the weed appears to unlock a creative center that produces ideas naturally without involving conscious thought.

To work on these ideas, however, requires conscious thought, and for this process, cannabis is next to useless.

In terms of performance, I have noted that, following MANY concerted hours of "clean" rehearsal, during which the major mistakes are ironed out and the band gets the entire "groove" of the piece, if the entire band partakes of a small chillum before a gig, then the gig will flow naturally, with the band able to almost instinctively anticpate mistakes, improvisations or the need for a member to solo.

It MUST be noted that this almost magical state comes not through abuse and over-indulgence of the drug, but through hard work and abstinence and USING the drug as a tool, not as a crutch.

It's like having two pints of beer turns me into a superb pool player - any less and I'm next to useless, any more and I have trouble holding the cue...

Hallucinogens are next to useless for music creation or performance, although the odd thing is that if you can later remember the ideas you have when taking hallucinogens, they can translate into some incredibly inventive music. There's no doubt in my mind that hallucinogens enhance music written under the direct or indirect influence of them, e.g. Pink Floyd - Ummagumma becomes a new animal!

My opinion is that these are tools that can be used to enhance our lives - one takes an aspirin to make a headache go away, one has a drink with friends to be sociable, one has a coffee in the morning to assist in the awakening process - but I do recognise that there are many who do not see this and seem to think that drugs are somehow a way of life or death, depending on whether they take them or not. I do not see them as a way of life to choose any more than being an alcoholic is a way of life to choose.

It is the whole "culture" that is to blame - and I feel that if people on the whole were mentally strong enough to stay away from such ludicrous cultures, then the world might not have the drug problems it has. The problems lie with the two cultures; Those who take drugs and those who vehemently oppose taking them. The latter, who are largely in an authoritative position force the former into an antisocial counter-culture which is self-sustaining and self-enforcing.

Erm... I ramble too much! Must lay off the caffiene...

Vibrationbaby wrote: Drugs and alcohol have ALWAYS  been related to the arts.

Sounds like an interesting thesis for a college student. What about the master; Bach, Beethoven...... any link between drugs and composition? Very fascinating topic.

It only takes 2 pints to get me under the table. I haven't tried to write anything while drunk but I'll give it a go.

danbo wrote: Vibrationbaby wrote: Drugs and alcohol have ALWAYS  been related to the arts. Sounds like an interesting thesis for a college student. What about the master; Bach, Beethoven...... any link between drugs and composition? Very fascinating topic.

Bach was a mathematician and used mathematical principles in his music. Schoenberg and Webern also used mathematical principles more recently - and you'd swear they must have been on something to have produced such unearthly music! However, I can find no evidence.

Beethoven was a habitual drunk - so there's a link there. Berlioz was a smack head - that is to say he took a lot of opium - hence "Symphonie Fantastique", which is all about an opiated nightmare.

It's true that art/drugs can go hand in hand - but Zappa was known to be against drugs - and look at his incredible output!

VB said:

"If Hendrix and Janis and Jim and others weren`t on drugs they wouldn't have been able to give us all that wonderful music."

May I point out that if Hendrix and Janis and Jim had not been using drugs they might have seen their 35th birthdays?  And perhaps given us even more great music?

Peace.

Certif1ed wrote: To work on these ideas, however, requires conscious thought, and for this process, cannabis is next to useless.

That's totally different from my experience- I find that while high I can concentrate on composition and production more dilligently, and pay attention to small details in the music that otherwise I'd pass over (finding perfect frequencies to EQ in or out, fixing timing, setting levels and automation, etc). I suppose it would be different if I was live or under a deadline, though. 

I meant the actual hard work of perfecting the ideas;

The original composition process and end production are certainly enhanced, as I implied in the case of production (production = a live performance as both have at least one sound engineer working with the band). I think that may be because the music comes naturally after you have put in the work and a smoke can put you back in composition mode - ie in a better position to create new ideas and finishing touches.

It's not 100% reliable, though . What I was getting at was the tendency for apathy to set in during jam sessions in which drugs are taken - no-one seems to want to really work on the boring old stuff, and everyone has new ideas that go off at strange tangents, leading to not much actual work getting done. That is an environment which I hate - and anyway, although the composition process can be enhanced, I know that anyone is perfectly capable of producing good ideas with or without artificial stimulus. Both are valid states of mind for creating music, IMO, but the clean, attentive state is the best for boring hard work.

Maani makes a very good point about Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison et al - if they had not been so seduced by the counter-culture that drugs tend to bring about, and taken such ridiculous cocktails, we might still have their amazing talents among us.

May they all rest in peace.

Does anyone know which drugs Mariah takes?

Mariah is a heavy Yage user- no, wishful thinking...

I doubt very much that most of the drug fatalities among the musicians were avoidable; Morrison and Janis would have definitely drank themselves to death pretty soon anyway. Pigpen never touched drugs, and he was one of the first to go- Brian Jones, Keith Moon, John Bonham, et al didn't need any other drug than the one you can find advertised during football games. Did drugs speed things up? Undoubtedly.

Seems to me that creativity and self-destruction- whatever the method- go hand in hand.

Then again, there are plenty of survivors whose talent seems to have died young. We can be grateful that we never have to see Janis doing a "Divas Live", or listen to Jimi do a duet with Puff Daddy.

Heroin is a pretty destructive thing. In the suicide note left by Colbain (smack head) he paraphrased Niel Young thus: "It's better to burn out than to fade away.".

 What a dickhead Colbain really was! He's dead whilst the increasingly inaccurately named Mr Young is living it up on his big fat back royalties!