Jimi Hendrix added to proto-prog
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57079
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Topic: Jimi Hendrix added to proto-prog
Posted By: Easy Money
Subject: Jimi Hendrix added to proto-prog
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 12:57
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M@x has requested that Jimi Hendrix be added to proto-prog.
Text for introducing Jimi Hendrix to proto-prog: A couple months ago I found out that M@x had approved Jimi Hendrix for proto-prog, but he was still looking for someone to present him to the site. I’m not a Hendrix ‘fan-boy’, but based on my recollections of that time period, I had always thought that The Jimi Hendrix Experience (Mitch Mitchell is a huge influence on early progressive rock too) was a big part of that early scene from which progressive rock developed. Vague recollections aren’t good enough for musicology, so I dug up some old Experience records and gave them a spin. I also revisited a lot of other records from that period, particularly The Nice, Procol Harum, The Moody Blues, Deep Purple and The Soft Machine. I also reread the bios I own that cover the early careers of Pink Floyd and Robert Wyatt in which Hendrix is constantly mentioned in gigs and tours with Pink Floyd, Soft Machine and The Nice as well as jam sessions, and various unreleased demos with Robert Wyatt and others. But it’s certainly not enough that Hendrix’s social life revolved around those who were breaking the boundaries of rock, what about his music. Based on the music I listened to, and also based on the accounts of Jimi’s early music career from the viewpoint of Robert Wyatt and others, it became obvious to me that the Jimi Hendrix Experience was very much an integral part of that early proto-progressive rock scene based in England that included, but is not limited to: The Beatles, The Moody Blues, The Move, Procol Harum, Soft Machine, The Nice, Deep Purple and Pink Floyd. If you read interviews with any of those previously mentioned artists during that time period, they are more than enthusiastic about Hendrix’s huge impact on their music. In fact, except for maybe The Beatles, you will not find an artist mentioned more often as an influence on early progressive rockers and jazz fusionists including: Keith Emerson, Ian Anderson, Robert Fripp, Pete Townsend, Miles Davis, Jon McLaughlin, Carlos Santana, Ritchie Blackmore, Jon Lord and others. In very early 1968 when Electric Ladyland and Axis Bold as Love had already been released, songs like Aint No Tellin, Burning of the Midnight Lamp and 1983 … Moon Turns the Tides placed The Jimi Hendrix Experience in the forefront along side Procol Harum, The Nice and others as far as stretching the boundaries of rock via complex and/or lengthy developed rock compositions. Also, as far as a live presentation of a rock performance goes circa 67-68, the lengthy improvisations that Hendrix and Mitchell would indulge in (while ‘out-of-his-league’ bassist Noel Redding hung on for dear life) were way ahead of fellow early rock bands in terms of instrumental technique, creative ideas and sonic presentation, except for possibly Deep Purple, Soft Machine and a few others. Here are some various issues that arise when discussing Hendrix’s proto-progressive rock credentials: RnB background: Some people claim that Jimi’s background in RnB detracts from his ‘prog credentials’. What is interesting to notice is that almost every proto-prog band had a background in RnB or blues including The Beatles, The Nice, The Moody Blues, The Who, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple and others. What about Cream: I don’t think Cream released any songs that were as progressive as 1983 … Moon Turns the Tides, Ain’t no Tellin, Burning of the Midnight Lamp and Third Stone from the Sun. I also think that Mitch and Jimi’s ability to really take flight in an improvisation surpassed what Clapton and Baker were capable of. It is too bad that Jack Bruce could not have been a member of The Experience. Wasn’t Jimi a blues guitarist? : Lots of guitar players can play the blues. Did you know that in the entire 3 album discography of The Experience there is only one blues song repeated twice on Electric Ladyland. The first Experience album is pure British pop-rock with psychedelic and progressive tendencies. The next two albums start to show more of Jimi’s American roots, while also becoming more progressive. It is not until 1969 when Jimi joins with Buddy Miles that he becomes known as a blues guitarist. What happened to Jimi and prog rock: In early 1968 the Experience stood shoulder to shoulder with the other creators of proto-prog when all of a sudden Jimi dropped his British affectations and went totally American blues-rock with Buddy Miles. While Jimi stepped back into his roots, progressive rock moved on to greater complexity with the arrival of King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Genesis and others. By the time we hit 69-70, Hendrix and progressive rock seem worlds apart. Blue collar American voice: I think one of the main reasons that Hendrix doesn’t sound like proto-prog to some folks is his blue collar American vocal delivery. If you took those same Experience songs and topped them with a British art school voice The Experience would have been one of the first bands added to this PA data base. Mitch Mitchell: The nice thing about bringing Hendrix onto the proto-prog section of PA is that Mitchell comes with him. It is hard for me to think of a more influential early progressive drummer except for maybe Elvin Jones, Buddy Rich or Robert Wyatt. When you listen to early Bill Bruford, Michael Giles, Clive Bunker and others you are hearing Mitchell’s jazz affected style. It’s a generational thing: Judging from conversations I have had on this site, most people over 50 readily recognize Jimi as a proto-prog rocker, while younger folks seem a little more resistant to the idea. I really think to understand what a hugely revolutionary impact Hendrix had on the world of rock, you just had to be there. For a lot of us there was mundane rock before Hendrix, and then this explosion of expression and creativity after Hendrix. Certainly he is not the only one to spark this creativity, but the word-of-mouth buzz about his concerts amongst the youth of the day was surpassed by no one. Many of the older teenagers and 20-somethings that I knew would say things like you haven’t heard real rock until you have heard Hendrix. 5th member of The Soft Machine: Did you know that in the early days of The Soft Machine Jimi would often fill in on bass for gigs and recording sessions so that Kevin Ayers could play guitar. Jimi and Robert Wyatt jammed and recorded together often and Robert provides back-up vocals on a couple of Experience tunes including Think We Better Wait till Tomorrow. EL&M: Did you know that Mitch Mitchell was Emerson and Lake’s first choice for their new trio. Things didn’t work out and Mitch said that Jimi might be interested, Keith was flattered but realized with he and Jimi in the same band the universe might explode. PLEASE DO NOT ADD ANY BOOTLEGS TO THE HENDRIX DISCOGRAPHY |
Replies:
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:05
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Cool, I guess. But obviously this means some long time members are going to crack the sh*ts for one reason or another (while I personally don't agree with the addition, nor am I going to bash this decision, because it obviously has a fair bit of merit on it's side) while new members are going to come, bash the collabs/admins for the decision while we calmly explain the artist was added not to a prog genre, but to proto prog all the while they keep yelling. And also, I had no idea Jimi played bass for Sofh Machine on gigs, that is really awesome. ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:07
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Excellent! I always felt that Hendrix should be here (and Cream too, since Cream is mentioned in the post).
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:09
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I absollutely disagree, his compositions are not Prog at all. But now he's added, nothing can be done so i will say nothing more about him as i always do. Iván
Please, don't even dream in Cream ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:14
Amusing how literally 2 posts after my post about saying how older members would be worried about this and how clearly he wasn't even added to a prog genre you state "I absollutely disagree, his compositions are not Prog at all." Of course. Hence why he wasn't even added to a prog genre. That's why we have proto prog and prog related buddy. -------------
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Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:14
Thank you for your professionalism Ivan, I never officially proposed Hendrix for the site (but I do support it) and I don't plan on proposing Cream either. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:16
Creamy dreams are the best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NSB-wKYL4w - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NSB-wKYL4w ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:19
Hehe - "Cream, get on top", as The artist formerly and perhaps currently known or unknown as Prince used to sing ;-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:27
The last post about this issue:
But he's been added and by order of the boss, so no more will be said by me about him. But please let's stop this phrase "It's no problem if he's not prog because Prog Related is not prog either", because to be in Prog Archives, we need a significative connection with Progressive Rock.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:30
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Anyway, one of my favourite Jimi Hendrix songs to mark the occasion: ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 13:45
Okay, fair enough, you don't agree with his addition, to some extent I can sympathize but like you I understand it's not my call or yours either as you said. But when you say "We need significant connection with Progressive Rock", to what extent is "significant"? Is "significant" concrete in this context or subject to opinion? I don't believe either Iron Maiden or Jimi Hendrix have "Significant" connections to Progressive rock and a lot of other people seem to think so too. This tells me, in order to be placed in the prog related or proto prog genres, an artist does not need a significant connection to prog rock, but a connection to a certain extent which is not necessarily "significant" to be eligble for addition. That seems fair, no? -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 14:00
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Significant could mean that HIS MUSIC, NOT PERFORMANCE, influenced DIRECTLY AND BEYOND DOUBTS Prog.
Just check that almost any late 60's or early 70's artist has at least a remote connection with some obscure Prog band, this doesn't mean we will add all of them.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 14:35
Jimi Hendrix's inclusion in Proto prog is long overdue in my opinion  , as much of his music and ideas influenced so many Prog artists in the 60's and beyond. I would be happy to be of assistance to whoever does the bio and discography 
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 14:37
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awesome... great job John!!!!!!! agree or not... a great addition for the site. As per the strength of the site... the reviews can say better than anything what you think of Hendrix and his place here at the site
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 14:47
| M@x has requested Hendrix's addition, and he is the owner of the site - without him and his work, we wouldn't be here. He has the right to make his wishes known, and we should appreciate the fact that he doesn't add artists himself, but asks first. Therefore, if we can't live with the fact that he might every now and then ask for a band or artist that we don't consider prog to be added, I'm afraid there is nothing else to be done but leave. No use in tearing each other apart, or trying to prove a point after the fact. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 14:53
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ehhh... you know... you enjoy what you enjoy... and ignore what you don't. Crusaders are the type that only consider what they think... and disregard what others think. Thankfully this site is not run that way. As I posted in earlier discussion.. I wouldn't have voted Yes for him... but as I also posted.. the addition makes sense...and thus is a good addition if the site wanted him added. Make no less sense than other additions.. so why are people upset... I could understand being upset after the first.. the second.. maybe the third addition you didn't agree with. At some point one just needs to understand this site is a collaborative site and there will be some additions you agree with.. and some you don't. The point to remember is... the one's you may not... other's do agree with. What makes any one's opinioin better than another. my two cents on that.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 15:13
So if someone doesn't like M@X's decisions, they just shouldn't question it? Of course, obviously the Hendrix addition cannot be changed by any of our opinions, but if someone feels they disagree, they should feel they are in the clear to be able to say so. -------------
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Posted By: marktheshark
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 15:21
You really can't be serious, Ivan. You don't think tracks like The Wind Cries Mary or 1983 are prog? Ever heard of Hawkwind? I hear Jimi all over their music. I got sneaky feeling there's some sort of prejudice going on in you that anybody who has a rep of playing blues is automatically discounted. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 15:27
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As Ib said before, no more talk about Jimmi from Me,
Raff has said it well, mailto:M@x - M@x has requested his addiotion and we can't say no, and as usual, once a band is added, i say nothing about them.
As a fact, even when i'm not convinced, Jimmi won't affect the credibilityof the site or upset me (If we were talking about the bee Gees, well, that would be different
 ), because many people consider him Proto, maybe i'm wrong, maybe not.Cheers
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 15:35
Thasnks man, I know mailto:M@X - M@X and I'm sure he appreciates all the honest opinions even if he doesn't agree with them.
If something has made this site Nº 1 is the variety of opinions, if we agreed with everything, the site would be boring and already closed.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 15:36
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Jimi is almost the definition of proto-prog. Not prog himself, but an inventor of many of the elements that are essential to prog rock as we know it. Yes he played alot of blues too, but there was diversity in his music. His expansion of what rock could express, the colors available to the player, all were important for prog as well as other genres.
He's here so I suppose there's not alot to discuss. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:15
Excuse me while I kiss this guy  !
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Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:17
Just added the first three albums *phew* 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:21
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going to add the album I just listened to... Live at Winterland. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:29
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added LaW.. not sure if that album is available anymore... still have my late 80's Rykodisc CD copy of it. coffee and puke stained cover and all hahahha
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:31
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whoa... is at Amazon.. for big bucks... but worth it hahhah
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:32
I added a picture of the artist and also changed the picture of Electric Ladyland.  ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:38
Mickyyyy!!! ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:40
hahahha.. don't worry... it was me she was singing about  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:42
Excellent picture! (Jimi's bio picture) In the dictionary where it says sensual it should have that picture and one of his guitar solos, ha ha. I really hated his early guitar histronics and fake sex acts, horrible! I bet he wouldn't have enjoyed being reminded of that when he was over 40. He looked so much better when he dropped that nonsense and just stood there and delivered the goods, as in this fine pic. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:47
Tuz, don't tell me you've never heard about this very famous misheard lyric (the real one being "excuse me when I kiss the sky") ? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:48
Alls I have to say is about damn time! 
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Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:50
No, I haven't. ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 16:53
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or the infamous Cheech Marin rendtion of Purple Haze..... excuse me while I kiss this fly
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 17:15
I'm kinda partial to "duh duh duh, da duh duh, my sca-rotum" ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 17:30
Hmmm. Hendrix is far more progressive than many bands we include on this site and as a Proto-Prog candidate I believe he stands up against the best of them. I would be perfectly happy with Cream for Proto-Prog too. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 17:46
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I'm happy to see Hendrix added. Maybe you did have to be there, but for those of us who were, this addition makes perfect sense. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 17:51
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I think it is a good edition as well. And as impressive as Jimi was with his guitar playing, the two guys playing behind him in both incarnations were pretty darn good too and also performed some progressive music in their own right. ------------- 
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 17:52
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lets just add every band from the 60s into Proto-Prog -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 18:43
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All I can say is that it's about time. The man turned the music world upside down. I'll enjoy revisiting his albums for my reviews. The Prog Gods are smiling. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 21:24
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so if we are putting in every artist people enjoy and don't always fit the norm can I nominate the Charlie Daniels Band be put somewhere, maybe a new zany subgenre can be added
don't get angry, i realize i've no say, just venting ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 21:57
That would be prog-C&W sub, I do believe. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 21:57
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I think Hendrix's music is overrated but his prog-connection underrated....
Anyway, he's here. Good. ------------- 
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 22:08
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Prog Ears beat us to it by a good margin; but he is here. How prog or not he is can probably be discussed until the sun goes supernova, but his influence on psychedelic music as well as progressive music is undeniable - indeed few have influenced rock music in general to the extent he did. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 22:28
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Why are we debating how prog he is when he's in a sub dedicated not to prog - but to the music that influenced the artists and put them on the path to where they'd wind up. Saying Hendrix is not prog is like saying that BetaMax is not Blu Ray. Well no sh*t, but it was essential in getting from point A to point B |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 01:33
| Are people getting somewhat desensitized or are we in the midst of Hendrix fans, this addition seems to be far less controversial than - in my opinion! - more legitimate past additions like Beatles or Metallica (which of course was added in PR, not PP). Not that I am protesting this at all, Hendrix certainly deserves to be in the Proto-Prog category, in my opinion again. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 01:41
   Say gents, a few of us highly influencial artists were wondering when us and all our buddies will get in.
You can call us Pre-Proto, we won't mind. ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 03:23
I'm sorry to say, but there's an apparent flaw in your logic. You don't see the significant connection, so you deduce that there is none ... while some other valued and respected collabs (including M@x) obviously see this connection. I've seen this so many times before. In the end these prog-related additions are always done with the support of only *some* collabs, and the others will have to bite their lips and live with them ... the upside being that some day an artist that they approve of might be added as prog-related, and others (who might be in support of Hendrix now) will have to bite their lips. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 03:57
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Whether Hendrix is considered prog related or not, I think he's just plain vanilla overrated. Precedents have been set on PA which makes his exclusion untenable. It's a subtle change to the interpretation of: Apres nous la deluge Glad he's here. Some of 'Electric Ladyland' is sublime and other parts, sloppy and wretched. ------------- 
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Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 04:08
 I think the PA would be quite poorer site without Hendrix. He definitely belongs to the "proto-prog".
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 04:28
| Like it or not - and I have little liking for Jimi Hendrix' music -, but I can't deny that Jimi Hendrix is prog-related. |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 05:22
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Great addition. For me Hendrix is one of the fathers of Prog.
Fron yesterday to today...
I've added 15 videos
I've added 3 albums
I've produced 2 reviews ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 05:33
Heh, never claimed to be a logician either, and it doesn't help I was posting this stuff in the stupid early hours of the morning when I was meant to be asleep You got a good point, yeah. I can see the connection, it was Ivan that said he didn't -------------
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 06:10
My feelings exactly, and I have been saying that on this forum since I arrived. The smoke and mirrors surrounding his over-rated hype as a guitar hero (his guitar playing was surpassed long ago) makes it hard for people to remember that he was working side by side and moving in stride with The Nice, Pink Floyd and The Soft Machine while the seeds of prog were being planted. There has been a 'guided by the masses' revisionist re-make of Jimi's career in which he has become a mundane guitar hero easily replaced by Van Halen or anyone and his real talent as a musical visionary has been dumbed down so he can remain the American cowboy guitar slinger. |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 07:50
Oh, the blame for that one is largely due to all the guitarists you could find as well as a few you couldn't find that hailed him as a guitarist virtuoso and highly influential musician for them. One might say that his qualities as a creator of music drowned in the feedback from thousands and thousands of fuzzboxes and the echoes of millions upon millions of guitar-soloing ;-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 08:15
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Jimi's solo style was so copied that now even Hendrix sounds like a parody of himself, that's what over-exposure will do to you.
I like his natural speech-like flow on the guitar, but he is far from my favorite soloist. If want to hear someone really expand on what Hendrix brought to the table check out Pete Cosey, the psychedelic guitarist who plays the best solos I have ever heard on Miles albums like Agharta, Dark Magus and others. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 09:51
 I must say that I found Easy Money's introduction of Hendrix to proto-prog close to hillarious. It is clearly written by someone who himself is not "a believer". Well, don't shoot him, he's only the messenger...But Easy Money seems to be trying to find all kinds of excuses for Hendrix' inclusion, one less valid than the other.
Yes, Hendrix was a part of the culture that led to prog, socializing with other proto-prog bands and artists. (I think you forgot to mention Touch.) Irrespective of his musical directions (proto-prog or not) he brought music to the masses just like the Beatles, so the (few?) proto-prog songs he delivered must have helped paving the path for prog.
The way his guitar was playing around every note is one of the trademarks of prog, and many keyboard and bass players seemed to follow this trend in those years. Replace his guitar parts with Emerson's keyboards or Squire's bass and it's pretty proto-prog. It would be a stretch to say no Emerson or Squire without Hendrix, but perhaps worth a thought.
Then there's the music. To point out a few songs: Listening to Are You Experienced? (the album) after all these years reveals that the title track and especially I Don't Live Today and the space rock on Third Stone From the Sun is as proto-prog as anything else from '67.
Ok, I'm convinced! Thanx mailto:M@x - M@x
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 10:10
| ^ Thanks, I used to teach comedy traffic school in California. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 11:48
I said I diodn't wanted to talk more about this addition (and even made a review of Electric Ladyland), if I'm mentioned, I have to reply
Yes I did, I said it, this is a place for OPINIONS, and even when in my review of Electric ladyland I say I understand why he is here and that he has some relation with Prog, even when i insist the connection is not significant and he should be in Prog Related.
And Mike, some other Collaborators don't believe that connection is significative, even some supporters say "Hey doesn't matter if he's not Prog, he's in a non Prog sub-genre" but we all accepted he's here without having to bite our lips,
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 11:57
^Heh, you have no obligation to reply, even if you are mentioned
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 13:09
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I can think of a lot bands already here I would have put behind Hendrix for inclusion. Does that justify it? Hardly but precedent was set a long time ago so I don't see this as wrong. Jimi was involved in pushing the boundaries of Rock in that altogheter expansive late 60's. Some would minimize it others maximise it. Either way it was there.
Bob, I think I had a class with you.
 ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 14:34
Great move guys!!!!!!------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 14:41
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I personally don't like the move, but as Garion has said, the groundwork for this has been laid a LONG time ago. Might as well open the floodgates and let all of the Psychedelic bands in.... Heck I'll bet the Grateful Dead fans are already posting. ------------- 
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 14:53
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I realize many who frequent the site were not there when it all happened. As manofmystery said, why not just add every '60's band. Within limits, and there are many, this is not all that bad of an idea
I will get to this when I review the albums -- when they come as I am the tortoise with regards to reviews -- but Are You Experienced, if you happened to be a 13-14 years old at the time, playing in a band (sorry folks, about the best we could do was Louie Louie and Gloria)...well when that needle hit the groove and Purple Haze came out of those speakers, it was like nothing we'd heard before. In fact it was in the most stringent sense of the term progressive rock. There's a reason that if you go to guitarplayer.com you will find discussions of the 'Hendrix chord'. It had never been heard before.
Sure there's the pure r&b influenced rock (Fire, Foxey Lady) but there's also the proto stuff (Third Stone From Sun, surely a companion piece to Astronomy Domine), not to mention the jazz inflections of The Wind Cries Mary or the psychedelia of the title cut.
Hendrix lies in rest about 5 miles from my house. I've lived here for 30 years and have not made the pilgrimage. I do believe I'll head down that way in the next few weeks. Thank you PA.
------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 15:03
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Personally, I was rather in favour of the addition, though I would not have lost sleep if it had not happened. As many of you know, I am pretty open-minded, and, even if I might disagree with some of the additions, you will hardly ever see me post to that effect. I think life is hard enough for everyone without getting upset because Band X or Artist Y gets added to our database. That said, there is something that really bugs me about some people's reactions... I wonder if it would be possible to disagree with any given addition without questioning the integrity of the people who do them. Things seem to have got better with time here at PA, but still there are those who believe it is a good idea to say, "hey, let's add Tom Petty/Britney Spears/New Kids on the Block/etc. etc.", every time a controversial addition is made. In my very humble opinion, this is VERY offensive to those who work on behalf of the site, and implies that either they are clueless about music, or (even worse), that their only purpose is to add their favourites. Disagreeing is everyone's right, but not when it involves slurs against other people. In this threads there are examples of constructive disagreement (Ivan, to mention but one). Is it very hard to do the same? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 15:18
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^Yes, you can agree to disagree without being overly disagreeable, some people would rather have hissy fits.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 17:20
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Great Electric Ladyland review, Ivan! I agree with the addition, but I feel it was made in a hurry. A very important issue wasn't considered: what is the exact artist we are adding and what are the albums that fit it's description? I mean, what exactly is "Jimi Hendrix" the artist? The three albums already added are albums released by the band "Jimi Hendrix Experience". Should we stick to this band only? It definitely has the best credential, since it is the only band Jimi was in while being proto-progressive, something he never was later, while he played in other bands. Or should we add any of his bands, despite the band-name, just because they all were "his" bands"? (BTW it is good to know that the record didn't have a contract with The Experience but with Jimi himself, the bandmates were hired personnel. Jimi could change the musicians and the band name, but from a contractual point of view this meant no changes - like in the case of "Band of Gypsys".) Or should we only add Experience albums plus albums released by "Hendrix" / "Jimi Hendrix" which have Mitchell and Redding in the line-up (like some of the early post-mortem albums)? What do we do with ALL those "Jimi Hendrix" compilations which throw in material from ALL his periods? Wtf |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 17:40
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Finally! About time Jimi was added here! A KEY player in the development of Prog, right up there with The Beatles and the Doors! Is Cream here, yet? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 18:05
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Heh. if Cream ever gets added I fear we'll have to notify doctors in a few select cities due to imminent danger of heart attacks for some of our members ;-)
------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 18:21
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and I'll give them a popcorn shower on the way to the ER.....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 18:21
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I would say that the agreements and disagreements seen in this thread are 95% close to the desirable among friends and comrades. Well, 100% would be perfect but the actual percentage is fairly enjoyable.
Keep the good job, fellows!  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 18:22
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Well, if people get heart attacks over additions to a music site, it means they have no other worries in their lives... Lucky them!
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 19:10
Maybe it's the opposite... maybe their lives are so stressful that they see this place as a place where everything goes according to a plan... and suddenly they see chaos here too... and it's their breaking point....
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 19:26
Yup - down to a T that one :-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 19:29
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Nothing in life goes according to a plan... Those who think so are deluding themselves, I'm afraid. But this is not the time nor the place for such philosophical discussions.
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 19:29
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I think I would only break if PA ran out of beer in the CZ.
but is it just me, or is this thread a whole lot of people defending the addition with only a couple of people booing
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 20:04
I was really only trying to play The Joker's philosophy from "The Dark Knight"... -------------
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 20:09
| Jimi...who? |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 20:44
Haha, you know, the one who taught Ritchie to play ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 22:04
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I think Hendrix addition here brings back the question of what do you appreciate more: Groundbreaking music or " prog by numbers"??
I take the first one , although I enjoy Trasatlantic and Magenta.
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 22:07
Nice ... I think that is what Jimi was really trying to say ... P.S. Check out reviews by Atavachron and Chicapah, poetry inspired by music, some of the better writing I have seen on here. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 23:13
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indeed... some great reviews coming in
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 11 2009 at 23:31
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Having read many many reviews of RPI, Psych, Heavy, Prog Metal, (and a few Krautrock ) reviews ... and seen Monsieur Hendrix's name regularly used as an adjective (hendrixian, hendrix-like, hendrixy) or just out and out just used as a comparison ... I now wonder why we would add such a musician when we all know that there were no mellotrons on his albums, no multi-part suites, no artsy fartsy w**king about ... you know ... something that groups like Procol Harum ( Trower actually invented Jimi's style of playing), ELP (Keith may have liked the ideea of attacking an instrument), Pink Floyd (a touch of psychedelic lyrics, some spacey sounds) , King Crimson (no need to go beyond the blues, right Mr Fripp) ... C'Mon folks ... the guy must have done something to merit all those mentions in these pages. I mean, do you see thousands of references to Eric Clapton ? Mike Bloomfield ? How about Robert Johnson ? Buddy Holly ? Proto-Prog is meant for musicians like Hendrix. Ah, but once more, we have the dreaded "he's popular" disease that kills the prog in any music ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: April 12 2009 at 20:26
If it were possible to say "Hold the line" with Jimi, well, I'd be much more in favor of his inclusion.
It isn't. mailto:M@x - M@x has shown himself to be in favor of an inclusive policy. Heck, I can't even disagree with him on that given the logic of making this site a useful resource for everyone interested in prog.
So all I can say is that I reluctantly welcome Jimi and when the Grateful Dead are included I will reluctantly welcome them as well.
But I sure hope we add a truly and authentic prog-related band like Boston before we start grasping at more straws.
sigh.... -------------
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: April 12 2009 at 20:41
Don't get me started on The Doors, though. We disagree there. -------------
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 12 2009 at 20:41
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No, I wasn't referring to you, but I was trying to make a general point - based on what I have seen around the forums in the almost four years I have been a member. However, I'd like to remind you of one thing... 'Truly and authentically prog-related', like beauty, is very much in the eye of the beholder (or perhaps I should rather say the listener). You think Boston are more related to prog than Hendrix, and you have every right to your opinion. On the other hand, there are people here who think Hendrix/Cream/Grateful Dead/Queen/Roxy Music/ etc.etc. are truly and authentically prog-related, and would HATE seeing Boston added. They also have every right to their opinion. So, who is right, and who is wrong? |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: April 12 2009 at 20:46
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LOL. I'm always right to me!
This may be why mailto:M@x - M@x has wisely generally come down on the side of inclusion instead of exclusion. What a smart man! -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 12 2009 at 20:49
bingo... he is.... that is why this site is successful as it is... it is an inclusive site. if you want Boston here.. stick around... they'll get added I'm sure... they have a case... a strong case. As many bands do... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 12:09
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For those fear-mongerers whose kneejerk reaction to controversial additions seems to be "OH NO ! This means that they're going to add Pat Boone, Garth Brooks, the New Kids on the Block, the Bay City Rollers, and eventually, GASP, Britney Spears and Celine Dion. This has to be stoppeD ! If I may make a comparison - they are the musical equivalent of those geo-politicers who postulated the domino theory. Oh, and by the way, and this can be taken any way y'all want - there will likely be at least one, probably some additions (if not already) that do not merit being here at a prog site, even an inclusive one like PA. This is due to that human failing - imperfection. This will not call into question, nor degrade PA's standing, nor its reputation as a prog treasure trove. It will have happened , or happen, due to the site's clearly stated goal of inclusiveness, AND a true fan's desire to ensure that all deserving musical acts eventually find their spot here. And as the inclusion of one very borderline prog act will not "infect" the rest of the site, it should be accepted as a sign of open-mindedness, not degeneration into a free for all anything goes expansion. So please, if you strongly believe that, for example, group X' entrance into these hallowed pages is going to inextricably lead to, say, Alabama or Krokus' admittance, then do this - prepare your case(s) in a thorough, logical , and easily digestable way. Then, if your nightmare scenario ever plays out, you will be able to lead the opposition, and if your arguement is strong & sufficient, chances are that the undeserving act(s) in question will be refused entry. Because, frankly, from my point of view, I have come to the point where I've developed an automatic kneejerk reaction to the endless "THE #%^@$*j@ CAN'T BE PROG, 'CAUSE I'VE HEARD THEIR ALBUM *%$^&$, AND IT IS NOT PROG, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NOT LISTENED TO THE OTHER 15 ALBUMS THEY PUT OUT", OR THE "HOW CAN THEY BE PROG, THEY HAD A TOP 40 HIT, AND THEY'VE SOLD MILLIONS OF ALBUMS", OR EVEN BETTER " I DON'T LIKE THEM, SO THERE !" ... Arguements like these simply motivate me to search out the group's music, and if remotely prog, put up a fight just to force the naysayers to have to come up with something of substance to support their view. You know, like actually provide an explanation, based on having listened to at least some of the music, and not just restricted to one album out of ten. Such as having read other people and their views or opinions on the group, including any influence they may have had on subsequent musical acts. Or in simple english - being able to show that you have at least one clue beyond a bias. So now, can we move on. Jimi's in. From today, take time to read a random review. Note the fact that in early RPI, Krautrock, Heavy Prog, and even some Prog Metal groups have seen their guitarists' style compared to Hendrix; and also note the similarities that some acts' compositions share with Jimi's . "cause honestly, we're not talking about Ted Nugent or Angus Young here. JH had a lot more going for him, and coming of him, eh . O.K., now to discuss who's going to win the Stanley Cup, and why American TV needs "Desperate Housewives" & " Real Life Housewives". ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 18:48
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^Well put, here here for the big tent approach to prog additions. I'm fairly certain we are secure from having Pat Boone, Garth Brooks, the New Kids on the Block, the Bay City Rollers, Britney Spears, and Celine Dion, etc. added to this site. Easy Money's initial post more than justifies Hendrix's addition. And if you know the artist's material well enough to review, then by all means take the opportunity to be critical there. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 18:52
Oh no, and I who wanted to add Duran Duran !
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 18:55
I could only support their addition if they were named Duran Duran Duran. For some reason I am now hungry like the wolf. Doesn't that song have the lyric "I smell like I sound" or something? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 20:52
Hmmm - maybe we can add a catagory like Progressive Synthetic 80's Rock with artists such as Duran Duran, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Depeche Mode, The Cure etc. - NO just kidding!Thanks mailto:M@x - M@x for adding Jimi. I always felt that his influence on many prog artists should be acknowledged by his inclusion on PA - and I think he was one heck of a musician! ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 21:03
Speaking of '80's music, I actually like the Eurythmics soundtrack for the movie 1984. Tears For Fears did some cool stuff around that time, too... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 21:41
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^ Speaking again of 80's music, the Eurythmics and Tears For Fears were great, especially The Eurythmics. Actually countless synth bands made quite an impression in the 80's , for a while including Duran Duran. I was also partial to New Order, Rupert Hine and Nick Kershaw. Also can't forget Spandau Ballet and The Human League and Ultravox. On the one hand there was Synth pop on the other Punk and Post-Punk, with a smattering of Hair Metal thrown in. Quite a convuluted time for music and certainly over-road the dominance of Prog in the previous decade... -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 13 2009 at 21:49
There was a lot of late '70's/early 80's pop (ABBA, Human League, some others that I don't recall right now) that actually picked up a lot of prog's most poppy leanings and made some fairly decent music. For that matter Asia was mining the same vein, albeit more skillfully. I know, I know, I'm just this side of crazy, but a lot of that which I call Europop for lack of a better term is put together pretty well. Maybe it's all those synths, maybe it's those yearning (and occasionally shrill) female vocals.
But of course I'm off topic here, the subject being Hendrix, which I've already said my 2 cents, but I'll say it again for those who don't read the whole thread: he absolutely belongs.
1967 was a groundbreaking year for rock music. The fact that Hendrix stands out, to this day, in that crowd is testament enough. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 03:55
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When I joined 'PA' 18 months ago I just assumed that Hendrix was here (so never bothered to look !) It certainly amazed me that it took so long to formally ratify his inclusion so for me, it's really a no-brainer. (Aside) Would there be a craw in anyone's throat 'round these parts that Jimi's discovery and championing by Chas Chandler (BRITISH) his initial solo success (BRITISH) together with the 'Experience' band (BRITISH) formed on account of his inability to even get arrested as a solo artist in (AMERICA) may have had a bearing on the resistance to his entry into prog-related ? Just a thought..... -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 04:31
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^ I doubt it most of the resistance - at least from my perspective as someone who opposed his addition over a year ago when he was being heavily discussed - surrounds the question of how directly Hendrix influenced prog. He undoubtedly impacted almost every guitarist of his time, many of whom went on to be involved in proto or full prog. On the other hand, the music prog musicians were doing was increasingly apart from and unlike the music Hendrix managed to record before his death in '70, his blues-based psych a far cry from Trespass, Stand Up, or Tarkus. From that perspective, he was neither protoprog nor progrelated and therefore technically not directly involved in prog's development. Do I mind he's here? Not really. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 05:14
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^ Hey David, read my intro for more details but, Hendrix was proto-prog and right there with Procol harum, The Nice and Soft Machine when it came to composition, structure, length etc.
In 69 he split to play the blues (The Experience had very little blues) and then Crimson, ELP, Yes, Genesis come on the scene. Now Jimi and prog are worlds apart, but it didn't start that way. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: April 14 2009 at 06:07
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Of course he should be here.
He played music in a way that nobody had before.
His influence and style are mentioned as a strong influence by many prog artists to this day and will continue to be mentioned.
I don't get the contoversy at all.
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