Are Chicago prog related or fusion etc?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56866
Printed Date: February 23 2025 at 03:06
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Topic: Are Chicago prog related or fusion etc?
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Subject: Are Chicago prog related or fusion etc?
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 01:58
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I'm no expert only got their greatist hits, but I know quite a few of their albums had epic suite, and jazzy improv. Anyway what does everyone else think, anyone out there a Chicago expert and think they should be in the archives? perhaps this is wrong place to stick this topic  .------------- |
Replies:
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 07:28
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In their early years Chicago was extremely progressive and boldly pushing the envelope of what a "horn band" could do. I think guitarist Terry Kath had a lot to do with urging the others to take chances and stretch out but, with his untimely death, they eventually fell in love with commercialism and the 3 minute chartbuster. If it was possible to isolate their first few albums and designate those as prog related I would like to see them get an honorary mention or something. But the bulk of their catalogue is miles away from belonging here. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 07:53
The idea of having a 'single album' category for cases such as this one has been recently discussed in the Collaborators' Zone. Personally, I think it is an excellent idea, but unfortunately I am not the one responsible for implementing such suggestions ...
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 08:28
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Early Chicago is definitely prog-related at least, in my view, and probably belong in JR/F for their early output. As Chicapah said after Kath died they went in a different direction - the bulk of their discography just didn't match up in quality or "progressiveness" to the earlier stuff, I'm afraid. Their early work (I'd say CTA through VII) are really outstanding. edit, amended after listening to VII - my mind is changed  |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 09:08
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Early Chicago (up to the 7th album) is full blown prog and belong in JR/F . They belong there way more than Blood Sweat & Tears and most of the brass rock groups already included in that subgenre? True Kath and the keyboardists and Pankow were the prog-minded writers, and Peter Cetera is the only "MOR poison" (fortunately not too present in the first few albums) in the group
I say: YES!! It's their turn to be included. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 10:12
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I have seen them twice (post Kath) in th late 70s and the reason was that the first concert was so dreadful that I thought maybe I was too intoxicated. Turns out I wasn't , the second show was even worse! Horrible , noisy, disheveled pop music with tons of pretense and arrogance. Yuck, Big Time! I , for one, would definitely vote against any inclusion, as 95 % of their catalog is unsuited to this site. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 11:07
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Weren't they named 'Chicago Transity Authority' at the beginning? If so, we could at least add that pre-Chicago band without much hustle. Great psyche prog! If, however, they were named 'Chicago' from the very beginning (with CTA being the album title) then this suggestion of mine goes down the drain...I heard both but I don't know which fact is true. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 11:32
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I think that Chicago have been approved for inclusion by the jazz/rock team. They were looking for volunteers to write a bio and add them. This is if my memory serves me correctly. ------------- 
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 11:35
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what's the last good Chicago album?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:33
| I'd say VII, but there might be bits here and there on a few later albums that are not too bad. Certainly everything after Kath died is to be avoided, IMO. |
Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 12:42
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Oh, good, they absolutely deserve to be added. It always makes me laugh when people try to deny a band addition to the archives because their later albums weren't progressive. Because, if history has much to say about it, one could say that the definition of a classic prog band is that they did go mainstream and non-prog by the 80s...
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 14:37
| CTA should definitely be included if they are added (IMO). It was made by the same band, who simply abreviated their name. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 15:20
| Chicago's first eight albums, IMO, are full blown prog, and X andl XI prog-related. Considering that Chicago has more or less 20 studio albums, half of them are prog or prog-related, which is not bad for a prog band. But I don't see them getting added because people believe most of their output is pop-rock and they would be quite controvertial |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 15:37
| If those albums are really prog, the band must be added. People must learn to stop whining every time a controversial addition is made. There are so many nearly unknown bands on our database for people to explore, and ignore instead what they don't like. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 16:04
| Agree - and if they have been approved, we should look into getting their addition in place, and if not, contact the JR/F team regarding their addition, barring that prog-related. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 02 2009 at 16:06
Amen, brother Pat !
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: April 03 2009 at 16:55
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As already said Chicago is a Related Prog band. Listening to their Prog material (in some collection) and their more recent material (I have '17') I did not find many differences, if not in the arrangement. For '17' the arrangements are so light that music has become AOR.
Certainly I think that PR is a good category for Chicago, also if their Prog material is sure JR (or better Fusion). ------------- 
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 04 2009 at 19:41
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Well I hope they do go in, I'd like to find out what albums of their's are pivotal and what to avoid
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 04 2009 at 19:43
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Chicago are under evaluation... .stay tuned .....
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 09:48
| For which genre Micky? Easy Money thinks they may have already been approved for JR/F. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 10:00
hhehehe... Bob.... we weren't supposed to announce that yet in open forum until that approval was 'confirmed'.... that is why I just said they were being 'evaluated'  
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 10:03
 ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 10:07
That chart is very odd. 
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 10:08
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^ Really? I don't even know the band, the chart is based on the tag assignments at PF. You're welcome to add your own point of view.
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 15:45
As you know, I tend to steer clear of the genre team's work, you don't need me poking my nose in.
 I was just concerned that you might be spending time on a band who's fate had already been decided elsewhere.
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micky wrote:Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 05 2009 at 18:15
and definitely not accurate either   ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 02:17
^ The more users participate, the more accurate the chart will be. Unfortunately I don't know the band, but if you do ... in all honesty, I think that submitting some information would be more helpful than complaining about that chart.
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 03:52
Uhhh... Are Chicago a X Prog band (x is the sub genre)?
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 05:30
| Great news! They certainly deserve to be here and I'm a great fan of all albums they made with Terry Kath. I was pretty disappointed with the two albums following his death and haven't listened to them since, but their early period (which lasted many many years) definitely qualifies them in my view. |
Posted By: St.Cleve Chronicle
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 08:32
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I've been thinking for a while about suggesting them for PA. But looks like somebody did the job for me. Great news! |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 08:53
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I know only few songs of the band but based on that knowledge they aren't prog at all. If they have a more progy side that I'm not aware of then fine.
However, I have a feeling that wer'e widening the borders a bit too much.
Who's next ? Tom Petty and the heartbreakers ? ------------- omri |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 08:58
Well, it all depends on what those few songs are - picture someone incredulous that Genesis are here, because they heard a few songs from "I Can't Dance" and are bewildered at the prog credentials of said band. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 09:05
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The peak at the end is because of Stone of Sisyphus which is their most progressive release since the beginning period. Although it was recorded 20 years ago, it wasn't released until 2008. -------------
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 09:08
Methinks the curve needs to have data points marked with an X or a dot or something. Also, it indicates the mid 80s stuff as being as progressive as some of the early albums. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 09:19
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There aren't too many Chicago albums on Progfreak yet so that is probably a major reason for the skewing. -------------
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 10:15
If a number of people with a vast knowledge of prog have suggested their inclusion, it means there is some merit to said suggestion. I know the band even less than you do, but don't doubt the expertise of those who know more than I do. As much as I can understand some members' frustration with some of the policies, I don't think it is a good reason for doubting people's integrity, or suggesting we want to include Tom Petty, ABBA, or whatever. Please, remember that there are people working on behalf of this site for FREE, who deserve to see their work respected. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 10:20
| Apparently Chicago was approved for JR/F long ago, we just need someone to do the work. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 10:26
Well said!
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 12:05
if no one volunteers ...I'll do it... any volunteers?.... if you want to ...just PM me... if you are a non-collab I'll help ya with with needs to be done and make sure any bio is PA's worthy so to speak. John...I'll wait a few days... if no one volunteers I'll do it. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 12:56
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oh yeah... since I see threads all the time asking how to become one... a secret I'll let everyone in on that might not be explicit in the FAQ.. if you want to be a collaborator.. these are the kinds of things that get you noticed. Being a collaborator means working for the site.. and doing things just like this. We are always on the lookout for collab worthy people... part of what we are looking for are those that can..and will do the dirty work that comes with maintaining..and expanding the database. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 13:09
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I'm a big enough fan that I have all of Chicago's album from I - XXXII (Stone of Sisyphus), so I am probably quite qualified to do so. But it'll have to wait until after April 15th before I'll have any time to get around to it so if someone has time to do it before than, than more power to you. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 06 2009 at 13:12
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thanks Scott... if it ends up in my lap I might use you for editting and fleshing out.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: April 07 2009 at 11:03
Ooooooooooh ! aren't we angry today ?
I read again my post and did not see any specific doubts against no one. I did say that If they have a more progy side that I'm not aware of, then fine. Then I said that in general that I feel we became a bit too much inclusive here lately. However, if anyone feels ofended by my words I apologise. That wasn't my intent.
Funny thing is that in another thread about Toto's inclusion I did reject their inclusion by quoting your words writen few weeks ago. I suggest you check that one so you can be realy angry that I used your words supporting my thoughts.
It seems to me Micky do believe in Cat Stevens' words (I'm looking for a hard headed woman). It's O.K. I feel the same about this issue (Mickey, you lucky bustard !).
------------- omri |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 07 2009 at 11:11
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I am not angry, and it was yesterday anyway....
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: April 07 2009 at 11:50
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Oh right. Wer'e in the same time zone. ------------- omri |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2009 at 15:28
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going once......
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: April 07 2009 at 16:32
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Are they going in as Jazz Rock/Fusion? If so...this is a great addition!
Honestly, if you reject Chicago on the basis of their 80's pop, should we not get rid of Genesis as well? But that does not seem to be a problem anymore  ------------- 
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: April 07 2009 at 17:44
Definitely Jazz rock with a prog related mark -------------  |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 05:11
so what do you rekon their best albums are I'm really interested in exploring them further only got their greatist hits, it don't like their 80s hits too much, they all kind of sound the same to me ------------- |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 07:10
yepper.. that's where they be going hahah. going twice...... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 08 2009 at 07:34
I think there is a pretty good consensus that for PA members the best place to start with Chicago would be within the first 5 to 7 albums. I was listening to their debut Chicago Transit Authority the other day for the first time in quite awhile and it is quite good. It has a few of their best hits on it, but also some hidden gems as well. -------------
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 04:28
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Seeing the CTA was released a looooong time ago, it was without doubt progressive for the time. Meaning that apart from BS&T and possibly The Flock at the same time, NOBODY had done anything like that. What can be more progressive in the sense of the word?
As for writing up the bio, I'd offer, but as I'd have to listen to their later output, I can't bring myself to do it. Meaning it's 'orrible. Really, really awful.
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 04:33
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Chicago and BS&T... Always a comparison... I do not understand... However, these two bands are a good use of wind instruments and in general play a similar music. -------------
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 05:11
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Mandy: I think you just mentioned the reasons for the comparisons yourself.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 06:08
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and sold ........to the skinny runt with the big yapper.. since no one volunteers John...I'll do the addition. Will start on it this evening. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 06:39
Thanks, I'll get some, as soon as I've got the essential Supertramp albums ------------- |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 06:43
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^ Thanks a lot Michael, that's going to be a bit of work indeed. I'm still working on getting all the essential 70s fusion innovators in our JR/F section, and getting reviews for their albums written as well. Soon to be added are Bennie Maupin and Julian Priester, and we are discussing Don Ellis too.
P.S. those of you looking for proggy Chicago, start with I, what a great album! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 14:08
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yepper... but those kind of additions are the ones you sort of live for....... you know lots of people will be looking at it. The challenge is to do a bio that answers the question some will have... 'If you leave me now.. you take away the biggest part of me!!' hhahaha....anyway...give me a few days and hopefully I'll come up with something good. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 16:48
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First BS&T, now Chicago. I'm feeling my "why not Butterfield Blues Band" itch will be in need of some serious scratching ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 09 2009 at 18:02
 ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:01
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I'll take the clappies....I know why no one wanted to do the addition That isn't an easy bio to write... but it's getting the full Micky treatment. Spend about 2 hours last night on it... and am just up to the first album hahahh. Hopefully will have it done this weekend.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:55
Well... You write two notes... And for one time not be a true bio... Can we be integrated... I look forward to their inclusion... My hands prude... I can not continue to scratch... I have already prepared reviews... And I will have to include two compilations... Well... Fast you with their inclusion!
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 09:59
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hahhaha... I dig it Mandy .. .look forward to the reviews.. and the album additions
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 10:16
Only two compilations!!! 
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 10:23
Ooooh yes...
And... One album... If I arrive first... But since this album is '17'... I think first I arrive... I forgot... Should I put even 1 DVD... And buy another 1 compilation (maybe 2). -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 10 2009 at 10:34
hahhaha.. you are a peach Mandy... When I'm with you, it doesn't matter where we are, or what were doing I'm with you, that's all that matters Time passes much too quickly when were together laughing I wish I could sing it to you, oh no I wish I could sing it to you ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 13:47
| I just saw Chicago has been added. OK, but I don't think they were full-blown jazz-rock/fusion. Crossover prog at best... |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 14:59
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Cao,Seyo. They were included because of they're approved ( by JR/F team), and in their early albums they play real jazz-rock!OK, if you want , it could be named proto jazz-rock ( and they are one of the roots band of that style, or more correctly,-that segment of jazz-rock). I believe, that their later works are pure pop-rock, or even just pop. |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 14:23
| OK, if the JR-F experts decided that way - be it! |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: December 04 2009 at 15:03
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It's a formal reason and I think it's enough. But do you really think Chicago (at least first two albums) isn't early jazz-rock? |