Italian Symphonic Prog is no more, renamed to ...
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Topic: Italian Symphonic Prog is no more, renamed to ...
Posted By: micky
Subject: Italian Symphonic Prog is no more, renamed to ...
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:04
Italian Symphonic Prog which has confused explorers and aficionados alike of the sub-genre for so long has, thanks to the wisdom of M@X finally been renamed to Rock Progressivo Italiano.
A re-defintion to make clear just what is Italian prog and what makes it so distinctive has long been in the works.. but was unable to proceed until the sub-genre was renamed for obvious reasons. Now that that minor issue has been cleared up.. the re-definition shall proceed.
Thanks M@X... you're a peach.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Replies:
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:05
That's awesome!
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:16
ooooooooooooooh, THAT'S what RPI stands for!
Well, we've cleared that up now, too
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:20
At long last!
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:29
BLAST!
I was just about to submit my first ISP review.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:35
Nice! I'll try to remember to rename the tag and genre charts at PF.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:37
RIP ISP; long live RPI.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:44
Wow, just seeing it up on the top of the page is amazing.
Mick, my hat's off to you. Better tell Linus the pressure is on
And to Max, a great thank-you indeed. Grazie!
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 11:59
yep.. Don will be pleased. I'll start a thread in the 'help us improve the sh*t' section in a couple of days where we can start hammering one out then submit it to M@X.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 12:07
A necessary change, given the expansion of the genre in the last two years. I wholeheartedly salute it!
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 12:46
If it wasn't so full of variety, I'd submit RPQ for Rock Progressif Quebecois ...
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Posted By: M@X
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 12:59
debrewguy wrote:
If it wasn't so full of variety, I'd submit RPQ for Rock Progressif Quebecois ...
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I think that the PROG ROCK QUÉBECOIS is not so unique , as Rock Progressivo Italiano is ...
please elaborate if you want ...
------------- Prog On !
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 12:59
It's much more logic than dividing Symphonic in regional based groups.
Good call mailto:M@X - M@X .
Congratulations Micky.
Iván
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 13:00
Great news, at last!
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 13:11
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
It's much more logic than dividing Symphonic in regional based groups.
Good call mailto:M@X - M@X .
Congratulations Micky.
Iván |
it was necessary... there is... most recognize I hope.. a big difference between being 'classically inspired' which Italian prog was like no other...and being 'symphonic' which very little of Italian prog was. Deep Purple and VDGG and their influence are much more evident in Italian prog than say Genesis and it's sublime symphonic nature.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 13:20
Good
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 13:31
micky wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
It's much more logic than dividing Symphonic in regional based groups.
Good call mailto:M@X - M@X .
Congratulations Micky.
Iván |
it was necessary... there is... most recognize I hope.. a big difference between being 'classically inspired' which Italian prog was like no other...and being 'symphonic' which very little of Italian prog was. Deep Purple and VDGG and their influence are much more evident in Italian prog than say Genesis and it's sublime symphonic nature.
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Agreed entirely.
It's great to see this change.
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 13:48
What makes RPI so unique and why should there be a separate classification is a relatively easy challenge. Firstly Prog is by its sheer definition (and as I espoused in my own 1974 philosophy final essay, that I still am proud to have), a maelstrom of various influences mostly involving historical traditions in music, whereby classical, folk, jazz, electronic, ethnic, world and many other genres can fusion together with the typical rock format (guitar, bass and drums) and hence, evolve into something completely different and original. Obviously, groups like Ekseption started the whole phenomena by reformatting outright classical compositions from Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Albinoni, Khatchaturian, Moussorgsky etc…adding electronic keyboards and brass (sax, trumpet, flute) while providing a strong rock beat (powerful Rickenbacker bass and drums).
So the Italians latched on to this something fierce as the post-Woodstock explosion of sound and technology (synths) made them more in tune with Genesis, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, King Crimson, VdGG , Yes and Jethro Tull than any other rockier offerings. It was a time when there were little or no boundaries as teens were avidly exploring new sonic landscapes. Popular music in Italy has always leaned heavily on the traditional songs of Italian culture, where vocals and lyrics have always been richly followed (opera) but also the canto populare , canzioni italiani etc..
“The music of Italy ranges across a broad spectrum of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera - opera and instrumental http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music - classical music , the traditional styles of the country's different regions, and a body of popular music drawn from both native and imported sources. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music - Music has traditionally been one of the cultural markers of Italian national and ethnic identity and holds an important position in society and in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_politics - politics . Italian innovation in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_%28music%29 - musical scales , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony - harmony , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_notation - notation , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_theatre - theatre enabled the development of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera - opera in the late 16th century, and much of modern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_classical_music - European classical music , such as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony - symphony and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerto - concerto . Instrumental and vocal classical music is an iconic part of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_identity - Italian identity , spanning experimental art music and international fusions to symphonic music and opera. Opera is integral to Italian musical culture, and has become a major segment of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music - popular music . The Neapolitan song, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canzone_Napoletana - - cantautori http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singer-songwriter - singer-songwriter traditions are also popular domestic styles that form an important part of the Italian music industry, alongside imported genres like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz - jazz , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_%28music%29 - rock and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music - hip hop . Italian folk music is an important part of the country's musical heritage, and spans a diverse array of regional styles, instruments and dances.” Source Wikipedia
“The Italian progressive rock scene was born in the early 70s, mostly inspired by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock - - Britain , but with certain features of its own that makes some sources mention it as a separate musical genre. In the early-to-mid-70s, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy - Italy was one the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe - European countries most interested in this genre; many English bands such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29 - Genesis , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Graaf_Generator - Van der Graaf Generator and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentle_Giant - Gentle Giant were discovered by the Italian public before they had consolidated a fan base in their home country. Consequently, progressive Italian groups were prolific. Some received worldwide attention, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Orme - Le Orme , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiata_Forneria_Marconi - Premiata Forneria Marconi , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_%28band%29 - Area - International POPular Group and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banco_del_Mutuo_Soccorso - Banco del Mutuo Soccorso . Most of the bands, however, were mainly known inside Italy. As CD reissues started appearing and the Internet made information flow easier during the 1990s, the Italian bands were discovered and rediscovered by a number of progressive rock fans internationally. Reissues proved so successful that several recordings which were never released at the time received their first pressings on CD in the 1990s and 2000s. The "discovery" of Italian progressive rock by foreign fans also led to bands such as http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Celeste_%28band%29&action=edit&redlink=1 - Celeste being re-evaluated as core bands, despite the fact that they were virtually unknown in Italy at the time. The 1990s also saw a resurgence in bands performing progressive rock. The first of the well known bands to do so was Ezra Winston, but other groups such as http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Finisterre_%28band%29&action=edit&redlink=1 - Finisterre , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex_Machina_%28band%29 - Deus Ex Machina , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moongarden - Moongarden soon established themselves as well respected progressive rock acts. More recently http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=La_Torre_dellAlchimista&action=edit&redlink=1 - La Torre dell'Alchimista and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=La_Maschera_di_Cera&action=edit&redlink=1 - La Maschera di Cera have carried on the Italian progressive rock tradition, sporting a very 1970's style.” Source Wikipedia.
Again, the vast majority of the Italian 70s bands preferred concentrating on using the Italian language at a time when very few non-English bands dared to sing in any other language save for Shakespeare’s! A very few German bands sung in their native tongue (Novalis) and only in France was there a similarly yet way smaller prog scene sung and presented in their native language (Ange, Atoll, Pulsar, Mona Lisa, etc…) and for almost similar traditional reasons (“la chanson francaise”).
The RPI also has the rather unusual attribute of providing 2 sub-groups, the “pastoral” , some calling this the “symphonic” style (Celeste, Banco, PFM, Loccanda delle Fate, Gian Castello, Bededeum, Errata Corrige and Hostsonaten) as well the “harder edge” closer to VdGG, Purple etc..( Murple, New Trolls, il Bacio della Medusa, Museo Rosenbach, RDM, la Maschera di Cera etc…). There are also iconoclasts such Franco Battiato, DFA, Jacula, Devil Doll,Goblin, Area, Deus Ex-Machina and Arti+ Mestieri who strive in their own little world successfully forging new sonic territories. Regardless, all have the hallmarks that make them unique: seductive style and elegance, superb technical skill, fascinating lyrical content and expressionist delivery. One of the easiest prog styles to guess is the Italian School, as it just leaps out at you even before a single word is sung in ”italiano”!
Another reason to edify RPI is simply the sheer quantity of top-notch past and present prog bands that are fully deserving of adulation. In fact, after Great Britain, no other country has as many titles available than Italy! More than the USA, Canada and Australia combined!
RPI is as unique as all other Italian national traits (design, fashion, food, art, architecture, culture, history and geography). The Italians remain proud, fascinating, emotional, irascible, generous, entertaining, funny, passionate and original. It is land of beauty, non-conformism, even a little dash of welcome insolence at times, always devoted to pushing the boundaries of expression.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 13:56
you rock Thomas
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 14:06
At your service, now where did i put my plate of gnocchi al pesto? All this RPI stuff made me hungry!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 14:22
hahahhahahha.. you just made me a happy man..... Gnocchi (which I LOVE!!!!) for the Mickster.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 14:24
I'm Mike on this one, I now know what RPI stands for, haha.
Congratulations Micky!
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 18:40
Congratulatins, micky!!!
Finally it was also recognized in PA what the story was codified at least from 35 years!
Thanks, mailto:M@x - M@x !!!
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 18:41
Now serves a clear and complete RPI definition!!!
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 18:54
tszirmay wrote:
What makes RPI so unique and why should there be a separate classification is a relatively easy challenge. Firstly Prog is by its sheer definition (and as I espoused in my own 1974 philosophy final essay, that I still am proud to have), a maelstrom of various influences mostly involving historical traditions in music, whereby classical, folk, jazz, electronic, ethnic, world and many other genres can fusion together with the typical rock format (guitar, bass and drums) and hence, evolve into something completely different and original. Obviously, groups like Ekseption started the whole phenomena by reformatting outright classical compositions from Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Albinoni, Khatchaturian, Moussorgsky etc…adding electronic keyboards and brass (sax, trumpet, flute) while providing a strong rock beat (powerful Rickenbacker bass and drums).
So the Italians latched on to this something fierce as the post-Woodstock explosion of sound and technology (synths) made them more in tune with Genesis, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, King Crimson, VdGG , Yes and Jethro Tull than any other rockier offerings. It was a time when there were little or no boundaries as teens were avidly exploring new sonic landscapes. Popular music in Italy has always leaned heavily on the traditional songs of Italian culture, where vocals and lyrics have always been richly followed (opera) but also the canto populare , canzioni italiani etc..
“The music of Italy ranges across a broad spectrum of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera - opera and instrumental http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music - classical music , the traditional styles of the country's different regions, and a body of popular music drawn from both native and imported sources. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music - Music has traditionally been one of the cultural markers of Italian national and ethnic identity and holds an important position in society and in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_politics - politics . Italian innovation in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_%28music%29 - musical scales , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony - harmony , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_notation - notation , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_theatre - theatre enabled the development of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera - opera in the late 16th century, and much of modern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_classical_music - European classical music , such as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony - symphony and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerto - concerto . Instrumental and vocal classical music is an iconic part of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_identity - Italian identity , spanning experimental art music and international fusions to symphonic music and opera. Opera is integral to Italian musical culture, and has become a major segment of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music - popular music . The Neapolitan song, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canzone_Napoletana - - cantautori http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singer-songwriter - singer-songwriter traditions are also popular domestic styles that form an important part of the Italian music industry, alongside imported genres like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz - jazz , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_%28music%29 - rock and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music - hip hop . Italian folk music is an important part of the country's musical heritage, and spans a diverse array of regional styles, instruments and dances.” Source Wikipedia
“The Italian progressive rock scene was born in the early 70s, mostly inspired by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock - - Britain , but with certain features of its own that makes some sources mention it as a separate musical genre. In the early-to-mid-70s, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy - Italy was one the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe - European countries most interested in this genre; many English bands such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29 - Genesis , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Graaf_Generator - Van der Graaf Generator and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentle_Giant - Gentle Giant were discovered by the Italian public before they had consolidated a fan base in their home country. Consequently, progressive Italian groups were prolific. Some received worldwide attention, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Orme - Le Orme , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiata_Forneria_Marconi - Premiata Forneria Marconi , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_%28band%29 - Area - International POPular Group and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banco_del_Mutuo_Soccorso - Banco del Mutuo Soccorso . Most of the bands, however, were mainly known inside Italy. As CD reissues started appearing and the Internet made information flow easier during the 1990s, the Italian bands were discovered and rediscovered by a number of progressive rock fans internationally. Reissues proved so successful that several recordings which were never released at the time received their first pressings on CD in the 1990s and 2000s. The "discovery" of Italian progressive rock by foreign fans also led to bands such as http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Celeste_%28band%29&action=edit&redlink=1 - Celeste being re-evaluated as core bands, despite the fact that they were virtually unknown in Italy at the time. The 1990s also saw a resurgence in bands performing progressive rock. The first of the well known bands to do so was Ezra Winston, but other groups such as http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Finisterre_%28band%29&action=edit&redlink=1 - Finisterre , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex_Machina_%28band%29 - Deus Ex Machina , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moongarden - Moongarden soon established themselves as well respected progressive rock acts. More recently http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=La_Torre_dellAlchimista&action=edit&redlink=1 - La Torre dell'Alchimista and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=La_Maschera_di_Cera&action=edit&redlink=1 - La Maschera di Cera have carried on the Italian progressive rock tradition, sporting a very 1970's style.” Source Wikipedia.
Again, the vast majority of the Italian 70s bands preferred concentrating on using the Italian language at a time when very few non-English bands dared to sing in any other language save for Shakespeare’s! A very few German bands sung in their native tongue (Novalis) and only in France was there a similarly yet way smaller prog scene sung and presented in their native language (Ange, Atoll, Pulsar, Mona Lisa, etc…) and for almost similar traditional reasons (“la chanson francaise”).
The RPI also has the rather unusual attribute of providing 2 sub-groups, the “pastoral” , some calling this the “symphonic” style (Celeste, Banco, PFM, Loccanda delle Fate, Gian Castello, Bededeum, Errata Corrige and Hostsonaten) as well the “harder edge” closer to VdGG, Purple etc..( Murple, New Trolls, il Bacio della Medusa, Museo Rosenbach, RDM, la Maschera di Cera etc…). There are also iconoclasts such Franco Battiato, DFA, Jacula, Devil Doll,Goblin, Area, Deus Ex-Machina and Arti+ Mestieri who strive in their own little world successfully forging new sonic territories. Regardless, all have the hallmarks that make them unique: seductive style and elegance, superb technical skill, fascinating lyrical content and expressionist delivery. One of the easiest prog styles to guess is the Italian School, as it just leaps out at you even before a single word is sung in ”italiano”!
Another reason to edify RPI is simply the sheer quantity of top-notch past and present prog bands that are fully deserving of adulation. In fact, after Great Britain, no other country has as many titles available than Italy! More than the USA, Canada and Australia combined!
RPI is as unique as all other Italian national traits (design, fashion, food, art, architecture, culture, history and geography). The Italians remain proud, fascinating, emotional, irascible, generous, entertaining, funny, passionate and original. It is land of beauty, non-conformism, even a little dash of welcome insolence at times, always devoted to pushing the boundaries of expression. |
wow, this is awesome man
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 19:32
Mandrakeroot wrote:
Now serves a clear and complete RPI definition!!! |
yepper.... that will be an effort in itself...
btw... what the HELL is that as your avatar hahhaha
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 19:35
Great job, a vast improvement - well done!
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 19:53
It just needs to be put in alaphabetical order.
But woo change.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 20:01
oh huge, great going everyone
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 11:30
Hey thanks for the notice, M@x. The RPQ tag would be a bit much as the groups run from folk to symphonic to Jazz to extreme metal. I just use it as a way to put all their albums into one CD wallet for easy access. Though a good number of them do share a commonality in their sourcing of musical & cultural aspects of their Quebecois & French Canadian roots - i.e. mix some Europeen (classical, celtic , intellectual) , some American (jazz, blues , rock , pop), with their own twist as long distance observers of the outside world's music scenes.
But then you get Voivod, or Aut'chose and the whole thing blows apart.
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 12:17
^^^^
RPQ ??? I like it!!
Cpongrats for micky!!
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 14:17
Sorry to spoil the fest but this thread reminded me old Willie's words :
What's a name ? If you call a rose in different name, will it loose it's blossom ?
I have no problem with this change and even can see why it is more accurate but after all it still deals with clasification which I concider not very important.
I'm not against it. I just try to remind that classification is something that should help us find great music. The music is the real issue.
------------- omri
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 12 2009 at 01:02
I always considered the moniker ISP as Italian SCHOOL of Prog (school instead of symphonic) . But that is the rebel in me! RPI is actually the better term + its in the right language!
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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