Advice for starting a career in music?
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Topic: Advice for starting a career in music?
Posted By: hawkcwg
Subject: Advice for starting a career in music?
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 18:45
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I'm 17 drummer and multi-instrumentalist and play with a progressive rock band and a symphonic neoclassical progressive metal band and I would like some advice from professional musicians that mainly get their income from playing and making music. I just want to make music and play instruments in a band or solo for a living, and if i can make money to support myself that would be great. So here are some of my questions and I'll try and read and take in any wisdom as well. What schools are great music schools? What are some great extra skills to have besides marketing techniques, talking abilities, and music ability? What are some things that are just priceless to know before starting a career in music? What are some things that you've learned along the way in your music career, that you have really benefited from? Do I need to waste my time in high school or should I just try and get my GED and apply for music college school? Thanks a lot. Also currently my progressive metal band will be making a demo cd in April, which our lead singer will be taking to a playboy mansion party to sell and get people to check us out and try and get us a record deal through friends and connections. I can also send the demo cd to music colleges i apply to so i could try and get a scholarship. Much appreciated, Chase ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:05
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Other than just being damn good, seems to me it's important to know your niche. Steve Vai got an audition (and later a job) with Zappa after simply sending him a tape of his playing. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:29
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^ let's me honest... luck has a lot to do with it. I know we all have met a lot of skilled players who are selling copiers.. or spamming on music sites.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:41
dont call your band prog metal 
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:42
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or wear Rush T-shirts to auditions... we tossed a guy out of an audition for that cardinal sin
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:47
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Yeah i've gotten a lot of auditions through videos of me playing and just showing off my skills.
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Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:48
Because i'm 17 people don't think you can really play. -------------
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Atavachron wrote:Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:50
We don't really Metal / Progressive / Other http://www.myspace.com/myridreflektion - www.myspace.com/myridreflektion -------------
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Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:51
haha why? and why is that a cardinal sin? you didn't even see if he was any good? -------------
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 19:56
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^Micky's just bulsh*tting you, I think . ..
. .. I hope . . .
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 08:47
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Back when I was playing (late 70s-early 80s) there was always some stoner in the crowd who'd bellow out RUSH!!!! in the middle of a tune. So we'd start speeding up. I don't think he ever got the joke.
And just for the record, you'll never get into a music school on a GED (Gross Educational Deficiency as they are known in faculty meetings) and "just showing off". 4 years of being the best drummer in your high school band and learning a secondary instrument (piano) are more along the lines of what it will take just to get into a state school. I don't know your background but if you really want to go to "one of the best" music schools I'd venture to say you've got about 6 years of lessons and practice ahead of you just to get in. Hanging out at the Playboy mansion is a MUCH better plan.
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 10:19
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If you want to be a professional musician, as in studio musician, a hired hand, you have to have alot of breadth and depth, and be able to give people what they want instantly. If they say they want country, you can do it, if they want 5/4 jazz, you do it. You have to know theory, have a great ear, in short, be a complete musician. Being in a band that "makes it" is almost pure luck, with minimum requirements being lots of talent and massive amounts of work on promotion, gigging (including many many gigs that just stink to play), and travel. After that, you're still competing with many others and it becomes timing and luck.
The #1 thing you have to have is professionalism. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 11:36
haha -------------
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 13:03
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Learn & appreciate between your friends & family liking your music, and it actually being good enough to be liked by total strangers who will pay money to see listen to it or see you play live. And if you can't attract attention beyond that first group, it may or may not mean you're no good. It does mean that you have to take a serious look at your music, or listen, rather ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 13:57
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1. You'll never regret getting your high school diploma. Never.
2. Unless you want to be a jazz or classical musician, the only schools of higher learning you need are those of experience and hard knocks. "Paying your dues" is not a cliche.
3. Be determined, focused and in it for the long haul. The odds are stacked against you from the get go.
4. Be willing to give up your home roots, your love relationships and your ego. A life in rock music will demand it.
5. Learn how to compromise within reason and strive to get along with others in your band. The group dynamic is of utmost importance. Without creative cooperation nothing of substance will ever get done.
6. Having said that, it all comes down to the luck of the draw, no matter how talented you are. However, the friendships you establish while being part of a band will last till the end of your days. Cherish every single moment. They are golden. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 14:37
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Sometimes i just feel like i'm wasting my time in high school when i could be going to music college or working to pay for college. My drum teacher works at a music store and has about 8 students a day all paying 50 dollars each and he makes enough money to pay for all his bills, and he got his GED and went to a 1 year program at McNally School of music. And looks for bands during the summer. I like and am good at teaching and already teach out of my house, so I could do that or just work at a regular job to make money, take my GED and SAT and then start applying to music colleges with a video of my playing or audio file, which many music schools take for applications. Then i could take out student loans to pay. But i will be learning piano because they do usually want you to have a secondary instrument usually piano. -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 14:59
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There are lots of studies showing that yes, in a hypothetical sense, you may be wasting your time.
However, in the real world, that high school diploma is a key into many doors that I would be very very careful letting go.
Most musicians (semi-pro) have day jobs and a year of music school will not help you there at all. And if you want to spend the majority of your life's energy doing music, you must be able to make the concession of taking a day job. Playing music is expensive, and getting enough real gigs to even break even can be rough. So you're working during the day not only to pay the bills but also to support your habit (music.) $50 a lesson is pretty steep, and it would take a big market and some remarkable teaching to get a full client base at that rate.
What we're saying is....good luck. You're heading down a hard road. It can be a great great set of experiences but it is hard. I personally chose a different career path when I started to realize how much BS work (more than just music stuff) that was required and for me just how good the pros were. Many of the pros (even the semi-pro locals) are much better than the guys teaching.
Again good luck.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 15:49
Go for it man. The world will always need dishwashers. Repeat after me "Do you want fries with that?"
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 16:25
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Hey man, lots of musicians actually make good money in their "day" jobs as waiters. More than they make playing music.
I'm envisioning a prog CD being played at the Playboy mansion right now.....I wonder which one would go over best. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 17:46
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Finish school and make a career in music plan B rather than plan A. A lot of people end up in severe financial ruin because they didn't do their homework on the music business, weren't in the right place at the right time etc and had no backup plan like a good education and a stable day job to go to. As everyone else has said in this thread, actually earning a living to give you a good standard of living playing music is pretty rare. Some guys have done it and still do it, but even then the people that 'make it' are making about as much as a school teacher at most. And even for those that 'kinda make it', they have day jobs, or they have things like investment properties or whatever to make up the extra dollars to ensure they can afford eat each day. Heh, when I was young 16-17 like you, I was full of these dreams too dude, don't worry, idealistic and all. But you get older (hell, I'm still fairly young at 20 though), you start doing your research, you find out what kind of money musicians really earn for selling records, doing gigs etc and I realized it really wouldn't be worth the trouble trying to make a living playing music. As a 20 year old, I've decided I want to get into guitar teaching instead of trying to make it in a metal band and even then I can't be sure how steady the wage would be and hell, will people will still be playing guitar in 30 years time or will the guitar become a relic of the past, effectively rendering me out of the job? I'll start slowly at first since I already have other employment right now, meaning I would limited to teaching on weekends or Fridays, but it's a start. You mention your drum teacher charges 50 per hour which is about 75 AUD over here. He must be a lucky guy and a real good teacher to charge that, because most music teachers would be charging 25-30 over in the US. Sure, as a guitar teacher, I might never have the chance to tour the world, will never have a few thousand adoring fans across the world, wont get to do all the cool things touring musicians do, but on the other hand, chances are I'll get to eat everyday, wont have to go through all the stressful details of touring because touring ain't glamorous nor is it easy for anyone, and it's especially harder for those who aren't that big, so if you still have that misconception that you expect to go on the road and have it easy, lose that thought. The lack of sleep, the being away from friends and family is going to take a toll on you and having spoken to guys that are in fairly sucessful metal bands with endorsement deals and what not, they have all pretty much told me it's not an easy life by any stretch of the imagination, but for the good things it does bring them playing music, they were willing to make the sacrifice to get there. Want to get into music? Think about it extremely carefully. Don't get into it now if you don't have to. Wait until you've matured a little, at least over the age of 21, so give yourself a few years, finish school first, before you commit yourself to it and even then, just goddamn hope things are gonna run smooth eventually. ------------- 
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 19:03
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To both Harry and Chase, here a little of my 36yo advice. Find a local scene, get established, and have a viable day job. Some of the best gigs are in front of 40 to acouple hundred people, especially when people know your music. Interacting with the crowd, knowing all the other musicians, not having the pressure to pay your light bill. You try to pay your musical expenses with your music and not much more. It's a viable way to really have a vibrant music life but not have to deal with the pressure of "making it." Frankly, I seldom go to big gigs any more because the energy just isn't the same. And this level of success, though it does require a significant amount of work and talent, is very achievable. Most guys play in many different bands doing different things over the years.
The biggest local gig in Saint Louis is that our local rock station puts together a Pink Floyd tribute show every Christmas. They take like 15 musicians from all sorts of local bands and they do around 5 shows in front of 1000-2000 people each time. All these guys are usually playing small bar gigs every weekend, and almost all are in a cover band (that makes money) and an originals band (that does not). They're bands you've never heard of, but all the guys (and gals) are great musicians. And it is truly a great live experience. I cannot imagine doing music and it being more amazing than that.
This kind of thing is very achievable. Making it big as most kids imagine it really is not. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 19:33
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Forget about mega millions. That era is over. Getting a day job is good advice. You never know how far you might go in music, but you will still have to pay bills in the meantime. And remember, anyone else who has to work for a living gives enough of a damn about hearing "artistes" complaining that they can't fully commit to their art. If you are able to record and also play your music live, even as a side project to your day job, you are already doing better than most people when it comes to achieving their dreams. If you feel let down by this possibility, you may want to read up on the Neo group IQ. They fully admit that the group & its' career are a part time proposition. And one that they are very thankful at being to be a part of. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 21:54
sorry let me set this straight, the music store that he teaches at charges 50 dollars, he probally only gets like 20 or 30 bucks. -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 22:00
Ahh, that makes more sense now. Regardless, 20-30 bucks per hour is not exactly bad eh? -------------
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Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 22:08
This is my thinking right now. I get a job and work on the side while I play with my band and we keep we play around locally and start a following and just do some gigs around town, and if people start liking us, (and i realize its a hard path trying to live a life doing music, but that's why i'll have the side job and do teaching on the side) then if people like our stuff with saved money we make we'll do some advertising of our demo cd we make in april and eventually make a nice cd and send that to companies to sell, like itunes, and rhapsody, and such. Then if we make some more money we'll sell some merchandise and try some out of state touring like Maryland, Pennslyvania and New York. But that will be pretty far in the future. We haven't gotten any negative feedback from the people we have showed our music too, and we are making up some really great original material, and the united states doesn't have a lot of good progressive bands that are making the same kind of music we are, mostly they're all in Europe, and hopefully people will catch on to the folky lyrics with harder instrumentation with good musicianship. These are the highest of hopes of course, and I would love for all this to happen and get endorsement deals, but am not naive in thinking this will def. happen because there is a lot of luck envoled. So these are the hopes, not the expectations. I just want to work as a musician and i'm very determined, and I would die trying. -------------
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Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: March 03 2009 at 22:13
Yeah and he's paying all his bills, living expenses, and everything with solely that income. And he got his GED and went to music college and is 30 years old. -------------
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Posted By: Endless Wire
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 19:46
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Graduate high school, man. Trust me you will be glad you did. ------------- . |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 22:09
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Read these two ... http://www.popsci.com/entertainment-amp-gaming/article/2009-02/internet-rock-star http://www.jonathancoulton.com/ ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |