War of the Audio’s
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5565
Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 13:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: War of the Audio’s
Posted By: PROGMAN
Subject: War of the Audio’s
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 09:19
What do you Think and what will how will you continue to Listen by!! ------------- CYMRU AM BYTH 
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Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 09:52
| i think that it's mp3's and i think that it isnt a future thing but already contemporary, i mean look at this site for example....nearly half my music came from mp3 downloads...of course i burn them to disc and listen to them but that is cuz i dotn have a player ...the reality is that whether yu listen to your mp3's on an ipod or your cd player they are still mp3's and they have hold of the musical world right now |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 10:15
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The sad future of music is numeric...
But there a few resistants left... Analog rules!!! 
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Posted By: Radioactive Toy
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 10:28
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how about vinyl?? in those.. cd player. I have an mp3player but it's irritating me.. I always have to put my albums on the pc before I can use my mp3player.. -------------  
Reed's failed joke counter: ||||| R.I.P. You could have reached infinity.... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 10:36
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Mp3 is the worst audio format ever.
All music that passes through a PC is destroyed. 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 11:27
I was so glad when I could stop using my turntable and stick my vinyl albums in the attic so its a CD vote then------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:09
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MP3 is never going to be the format of the future for the average easily satisfied man because the filesizes are so big. For comparable quality in AAC (for all those iPod sheep |
) or ogg (for everyone else) it's about half the size again. And it's even less likely to be the format of the future for the audiophile because it's rubbish.Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:18
| all music on this site has passed thru a pc you idiot |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:27
you don't deserve better |
Snow Dog wrote:Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:30
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Dont I? You know me then? Are you that drunk from down the pub? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:38
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No, i'm not a beer drinker, and even not an alcohol drinker
like you (altough i enjoy a little beer from times to times, good wine and champagne), as my logo suggests. Alcohol lowers your level of consciousness until you listen to "prog metal"...which is just "metal" in fact... Btw, that's you who started to call me idiot! 
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:45
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Oliver-Snow Dog was not the one who called you an idiot! However the following statement is silly: No, i'm not a beer drinker, and even not an alcohol drinker a slight contradiction there my young friend....
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:46
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Oliver I love you so much! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:49
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Where's the british flegm?
So vulgar... Return to your mp3 and your beer. "However the following statement is silly: No, i'm not a beer drinker,etc..." Nothing silly, it's just from time to times, i don't go to the cafe (we have no pubs)in order to get high or to forget. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 12:56
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What the hell are you talking about? Are you out of your head on weed all of the time? What MP3s? I think you suffer from a major superiorty complex. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:16
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Apologizes
I confuse you with hopelevre |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:20
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-1 Snow Dawg! Hopelevre will be on a " - 50" rating shortly...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:22
Im lucky he came along ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:23
| im so worried....funny how reed is always pushing for others' rating s to be knocked back.....looking thru most of his posts he seems to be the most pejorative member on the site, hes just too much of a coward to say what he thinks about the real issues so no one turns against him....that is because he knows all too well he wouldnt be liked if he were honest...sad really |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:29
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God this topic is so apt ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:32
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I still dont understand why I dont deserve better Oliver, am I inferior somehow( dont everyone say "yes" at once) ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:34
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WHAT???????? Well,that is a first....I am frightened of saying what I really think.
Maani,Linda,Karnevil -if this is the case,you owe me a big apology!! -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:36
| i said you wont say what you really think on real issues....its also funny how selective your reaadign seems to be....you only seem to pay attention to what agrees with you or what you can manipulate into a weapon |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:51
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Right on!!!... and computers include discmans and CD stereos. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:53
| not to mention just about everything in a record studio that most band's have to use |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 13:53
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You've not been around long have you................... -------------
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 14:32
If you prefer cd to vynil, so it means you have no ear, so you don't deserve better. Moreover, regarding your musical tastes, it confirms that. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 14:37
I prefer CD because I hate scratches and pops and clicks, it doesnt add to the music in my opinion. As for my tastes....you know nothing about that, so you cant judge and any way who made you the arbiter of taste? God himself? Audiophiles dont you just love 'em? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 14:39
Yes, a computer is of course unable to reproduce music, like a discman. I was pointing out the fact that duplicate a CD to a computer makes a very bad copy. Better use a good audiophile burner. Moreover, it's obvious that a computer spoils sound. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 14:57
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Erratum
I wanted to say :"I was pointing out the fact that duplicate a CD ON a computer" sorry, it's clearer now |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 15:52
It is possible to do "perfect" rips of CDs on a PC - A program called EAC (exact audio copy), for example, and even using the worst CD drives it will lose about a ten-thousandth of a second of audio at the beginning/end of the CD. Wheras tenth gen analogue is not nice sounding at all! |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 27 2005 at 16:21
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You're not taking a PHd in psychology, then. |
Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 05:08
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I like CD or Vinyl because you've got artwork and sleevenotes etc, essential for Prog in my view MP3 dosent have those. I know I sound old fashoned and everything but for me is physically owning albums. ------------- CYMRU AM BYTH
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 05:33
| It's always rubbish shelling out money for an album not only in low quality but also with no physical presence. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 05:44
Little format and little sound
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 05:47
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Numeric breaks...
EARS 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 05:50
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Sounds big on my stereo and more convenient ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 09:46
| MP3 RLUE'S |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:01
| ...perfect to listen to bad music and for people without ears! |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:17
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But Oliver what difference does it make to you how people listen to the music? -------------
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:19
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I don't think putting a record in the microwave would do it much good either |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:19
| he means to say they arent heearing all "the music" ....because of their poor media quality some of it is missing, or not as crisp, sample rate lowered, what have you |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:25
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But my understanding is that music for vinyl is "compressed" Because vinyl cant handle the sonic range that CD does. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:29
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I dont know what is missing but it is almost indefinable,and yes with a properly set up turntable and quality pressing, vinyl is better.It is warmer and more substantial somehow.Yeah,for about 10 plays then it is a mess of pops and ticks. CD is convenient and the quality is adequate for the vast majority of ears. Besides, those of us who have attended concerts since the early 70's cant hear a full spectrum of sound anyway!
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:44
| all very true |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:45
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. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:46
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I disagree but Jeeeeeeeeeezzzzzz what a collection ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Beau Heem
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:47
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It's hard to say what direction the "music" industry is going to take. I believe it's a mix of mp3s and cds. But that is only for the entertainment industry. Those musicians and artists that view their work as something else than only a way to make money are going to choose other ways (old & new) to distribute their art, I hope. I sincerely hope that the "art for art's sake, money for god's sake" -thingy isn't true, though. Cheers -Beau ------------- --No enemy but time-- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 10:53
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. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 11:18
| the part of vinyl that you people say "sounds the best" isnt even a part of the artist's music....you could get the same thing off a michael jackson album, so how is it that they are the true and pure way to listen? that analog "warmth" is nothing more than distortion, i can make an mp3 have cracks and pops(or just that warm distortion) just like vinyl with my pc and the right effects |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 11:27
It's exactly the contrary |
Posted By: Beau Heem
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 11:28
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I believe that each and every album published is (well yeah ok, arguably) well thought of in terms of how it is put together. That is why I think that if an album is released originally as a vinyl, it also should be listened to as a vinyl. Changing the side of the vinyl is a part of the album... However if an album is recorded to be published as a cd, I suppose there is no need to split it up in two sides to create a vinyl. I assume that the track lists of 70s albums would be rather different if one wouldn't have to change the side in between. Cheers -Beau ------------- --No enemy but time-- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 12:33
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. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 12:53
| thank you for your enlightening reply full of fabulous counterpoints and objective reasoning(how am i the ignorant one? if you arent aware of these procedures i guess you would be the ignorant one) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:23
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. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:27
| yes all the information on my profile is designed specifically because i care about what all of you think(ego)....no im not going to cahnge it(because you said soemthing?ego), i just cahnged it TO that....too bad you know more about the "ethics of vinyl playback" than you do about spinoza's "the ethics" |
Posted By: arkitek
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:31
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i chose mp3's because however much i like cd's they are just too much hassle as they scratch too easily and tehy are hard to listen to unless you have ginormous pockets whereas with mp3's they are small you can carry millions of them at once and the only disadvantage is you sometimes get file corruption.
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Posted By: Radioactive Toy
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:39
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wow this is the first time that I really like karnevil 9 ehm.. your collection.. DANG! -------------
Reed's failed joke counter: ||||| R.I.P. You could have reached infinity.... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:41
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. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:41
| sycophant |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:42
| excommunicated jew( exiled for telling the truth and speaking his feelings) |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:42
That's not his collection,you balloon!!!!!! http://www3.eou.edu/keol/images/photography/ - http://www3.eou.edu/keol/images/photography/ You lot never learn. Should I have an "RT's failed intellect counter"? -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:44
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. |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:47
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RT: here's my CD collection:
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:47
| whatever that means.... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:49
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. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:53
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. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 13:57
yur not being very nice 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 14:01
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. |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 14:08
Well the vinyl pictured (and the cds in my pic-which was for RT)and claimed to be your own belong to an American University Radio Station called Keol.
So Karnevil9 why am I the prat????????????? You obviously do NOT own them records so why pretend you do? -------------
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 14:14
| Karnevil9 is uncovered now!! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 17:39
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. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 17:42
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. |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 17:58
You daft old vinyl-grinder-I was taking the mickey out of Radioactive Toy for believing those records were yours! Irony,you dingbat! -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 18:05
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. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 18:09
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wasn't Radioactive Toy's post irony??
ps. Karny, do you have to blow when Ollie is winding you up ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 18:14
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. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 18:29
| we know |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 19:50
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Maybe I'm confused, but is someone saying they saw Karnevil9 walking around the University of Oregon in Capri pants? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi"> 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 19:54
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. |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 19:59
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My entire CD and vinyl collection:
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 20:02
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. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 20:02
That's a nice collection James, beats mine
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 20:15
| yu dotn think he has them backed up ? |
Posted By: James Lee
Date Posted: April 28 2005 at 20:15
Hmm, I'd better back everything up before you find out how much metal is in my collection... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/sollipsist/?chartstyle=kaonashi">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 04:26
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No its not. I know what I read! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 04:48
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We have to explain you all from the beggining...
Too hard... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 04:51
In your opinion, which wons?
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Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 04:54
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Hmmm CD's it is then????????, I got to have a CD or LP in my hand so that's when I know I got music. ------------- CYMRU AM BYTH
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 05:37
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Too Hard...like your head..its full of concrete or something far more revolting. Theres no point in continuing this until I find the article I read, Meanwhile go and listen to your compressed music. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 06:08
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I think Cert,can help you with this one,although he wouldnt thank me for inviting him into this surreal discussion. Check out his posts in the Vinyl vs CD thread in the "HiFi,Speakers and Vinyl" section of this forum area. -------------
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 09:51
Compressed music?!!!!!!!!!!! What's Mp3 in your opinion? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 09:55
| when i produce music in my studio i can export it to mp3 choosing the sample rate i want....this directly controls the amount of the compression....i can make it exactly as it should sound(no diff between the mp3 and the way it sounds when i mixed it) ....or i can really really compress it and make it sound like i was playing it underwater(a really cool effect) |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 12:22
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It might not sound different but it is! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 13:24
| well isnt that what the discussion is about goose? what it "sounds" like? |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 15:01
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Not the very last bit, and I'm not saying don't use mp3, by any means. The point is that since whenever you encode mp3 you lose information, that means that it will never be able to replicate the original perfectly. It might come very very close and be indistinguishable on nearly every sample, but there will always be at least one piece of music that sounds audibly different (likewise if you use lossless compression, there will always be a file which gets larger instead of smaller), and some people (I'm sure oliverstoned is one of them) with high end equipment can differentiate even top bitrate encodings of "normal" songs. The reason I doubt mp3 is the format of the future is that there are at least two formats which are far more efficient. While ogg's been around longer, I suspect if any of today's codecs catch on it'll be AAC, simply because Apple have such a share in the market. But hey, people can use whatever they like - if at some point I have any money I'll look into DVD-A (looks like I'll have to buy all my favourite albums again... |
), and for that reason I'm not buying any King Crimson CDs since I think they're being reissued in not too long, although Red is really really tempting me..!Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 15:07
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Forget DVD-A and SACD.
Last KC HDCD reissues are the best versions available under numeric form. I consider "Lark's tongue" hdcd reissue to be the best sounding 70's prog CD, followed by Caravan Deram reissues. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 15:14
| you say they are more efficient....are these digital formats other than mp3 close to the quality of analog stuff ? what about .wav files that are not compressed half as much as mp3? |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 15:14
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I know the issues with SACD, but surely DVD-A is far better sounding than CD? It's basically the same idea as CD (i.e. PCM audio) but with far higher sampling rates/bit depth (and more channels, but that's by the way), isn't it? |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: April 29 2005 at 15:26
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Maybe, it will be better when the technology will be improved, but for the moment, it doesn't work.
So don't bother with DVD-A, you'll have a better sound with on of those good english "little" CD player above, i swear! Don't me fooled my the marketing and advertisement! They are lying on these new supports, telling it's better, like they were lying about the CD being better then the vynil. On the other hand, the Blue ray disc, which will replaces the DVD will offers a greatest video quality,cause it contains much more informations. But for sound...forget! 
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