Lets have a witch hunt!

Who are the pretentious bastards, who have the audacity to think they know about music just because they got a couple of Rush albums. Come on lets run the f**kers out of town.

Care to name and shame, hopelevre??

a veritable list of self-deluded, pretentious know-nothings:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3874 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3874

We should all thank hopelevre for revealing us as the charlatans we are.

The resounding gratitude will be along any minute...go ahead, hold your breath...

hopelevre

No one is 'anti hopelevre' Take a step back from this thread and ask yourself what was the actual point in posting a thread that points out that not every contributor is a musical genius??

What was you actually hoping to achieve, apart from possibly starting a fight..

You dont need to be a musician to enjoy music and want to talk about it, anyway. Music is written to evoke an emotional response in people. If it does that, its succeeded in its aim. Get off your high horse.

Anyway, out of interest, are you a muso??

Just read your original post. True, you dont say non musicians cant enjoy music. I stand corrected!

However, you may want to consider how others will respond when you post something. Making a meaningless and quite inflammatory observation like you have is going to provoke a negative response towards you. Dont you agree?

If thats what you want, thats fine, but dont expect to make may friends around here.

BTW, no, I'm not dense, and I dont think you are. I think you have an attitiude problem and are an attention seeker.

hopelevre wrote: that is all well and fine but the fact remains that this topic has been approached many times by other members, i said nothing that was intended to incite anything but thought and maybe a little objectivity...... those of you who cant get thru your initial reaction to the thread are most likely lost to it anyway...and if making friends around here means not speaking up about the effete politics rampant on the site ....well it seems ive made my choice doesnt it....im not here to make friends...im not here to alienate anyone....both will transpire....neither is a transgression ....if you dotn liek me o well...if you dotn like what i say o well....im used to it...but it isnt to get attention or to get a rise out of you...i say what i feel and believe and i wont be threatened into not saying it

Im not surprised......oops

The point you are trying to make in this thread is a perfectly valid one, in that people should not dismiss ANY music as sh!t, if they have no understanding of how it was composed etc..I would say most people around here dont do that. I certianly try to avoid it.

I guess we all express our views in different ways. Thats fair enough.

hopelevre wrote: thank you...that was my only point and tho you may not do it, i disagree when you say most dont do it....i have seen it many times here, regarding many different musical styles(prog and non)

You know what, I agree with you too and if u search my posts youll see that Im very tolerant of all kinds of music!( dont search my posts though will you)

hopelevre wrote: i have been around this site for awhile and a striking dynamic has become increasingly salient....it seems most of you actually have no clue about the fundamnetals behind music...most of you seem to think that because you listen to "prog", what yu all consider the end all be all of music, this means you actually have real musical knowledge...however as is proven here time and agin, when the time comes to make thoughtful statements regarding another's work, the ability is not there...it either sucks because it isnt (yes, genesis, elp) or its brilliant because it is....it engenders a great sense of irony to me that most of you afficianados who are so quik to label yourself musically superior and capable of reviewing musician's work are in fact completely musically illiterate and have absolutely no idea , when it comes to music(other than your personal preferences) about that which it is that yu speak

Yeah...I'm pretentious...what's it to ya?

Hopelevre is very upset that I dismissed his musical ability,just as a way of upsetting him,like he has upset everyone else.

Tit for tat.Brickbat for brickbat.......until it stops.

hopelevre wrote: yes its ok to have values and beliefs....just dotn let them differ from reed lover's or yours, or yours, or yours, as that isnt allowed...i have done nothing to upset anyone on this site and if you are upset it is because you lack the maturity to tolerate those different from you, funny how im the bigot when you wont tolerate me

I beg to differ! Your very first post was an attack on me about a trivial thing. And you were wrong anyway.

hopelevre wrote: yes its ok to have values and beliefs....just dotn let them differ from reed lover's or yours, or yours, or yours, as that isnt allowed...i have done nothing to upset anyone on this site and if you are upset it is because you lack the maturity to tolerate those different from you, funny how im the bigot when you wont tolerate me

I believe you called me an intelligent devoted mormon, or something like that, but just because my nick name say's Tuxon doesn't mean I'm from Utah.

You also called some people Queers, Homo's, assholes etc. Does it mean I lack the Maternity to tolerate behaviour like that, or are you to maturant for normal decent behaviour.

hopelevre wrote: i did not do this to offend you

Then why did you do it.

hopelevre wrote: i did not do this to offend you and i repeat i have done nothing to offend anyone here...if you were offended im sorry, that doesnt make it my intention

I think someone needs a reality check here:

Hopelevre,you are the most offensive,discourteous person on this forum.

You are even more obnoxious than Karnevil9

or me!

hopelevre wrote: what a surprise comign from you reed....tell me what it is beyond my views that makes me this?.....nevermind, i know, its my inability to tolerate those of you who have no regard for discussion and choose rather to ignore all poitns and focus only on furthering your respective cause ....

which cause is this?

have you taken your tablets or medicine. Just one little prick.............

Snow Dog wrote: I didnt know Reedy had a cause, I think he just has an affect, he makes everyone sick!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/reedlover/Vomit.bmp -

hopelevre wrote: you people have attacked me personally because of my belief systems.....when i take offence to that (as any of you would) and respond by calling you a name suddenly i have become the provacateur?   this is nothing about me and everything about what ive said about my views that you did not like, i have engaged in these discussions in a rational manner and continued in that manner far longer than most of you did....reed you are a fat f**king hypocrite

Please reread this http://www.onlinediscountmart.com/74-30720.html -

hopelevre wrote: you people have attacked me personally because of my belief systems.....when i take offence to that (as any of you would) and respond by calling you a name suddenly i have become the provacateur?   this is nothing about me and everything about what ive said about my views that you did not like, i have engaged in these discussions in a rational manner and continued in that manner far longer than most of you did....reed you are a fat f**king hypocrite

Spoken like a true spoilt little brat!

You dont get out much,do you?

With your social skills and sense of what is right and what is wrong,you'd be on a slab now if you did.

You have serious behavioural issues, Hopelevre.Dont keep inflicting them on us,please.

Crimson Prince wrote: We need a preference setting on this forum that allows us to block or not show certain people's posts. That would resolve a lot of this flame-war stuff.

Says you!!!

CP we've lit many a fire together,in the past!

hopelevre wrote: right yu people arent worth the time you have on your hands....it isnt cool to hate people because they think differently...i never said i hated gays...i said how i viewed the issue....yu turned it into a campaign to label me a bigot/racist ....whatever yu say

But you are a bigot/racist 

hopelevre wrote: o ? please tell me why?

You've already told us! If we have read this incorrectly then so has every member on this forum.

If this is not your intention then you need to brush up on your compositional skills....

But no...I wont respond to you using your preferred method of attack...I will say this:

You have led us to believe that you are a disgusting homophobic racist.
We are not interested in your sordid views.
Take them elsewhere-you disgust me and any right-thinking person on this site.

Reed Lover wrote: hopelevre wrote: o ? please tell me why? You've already told us! If we have read this incorrectly then so has every member on this forum. If this is not your intention then you need to brush up on your compositional skills.... But no...I wont respond to you using your preferred method of attack...I will say this: You have led us to believe that you are a disgusting homophobic racist. We are not interested in your sordid views. Take them elsewhere-you disgust me and any right-thinking person on this site.

I have little to add to this.

Except you are also sick and in desperate need of some counseling

I can't help you, but there are medications

I feel to we could benefit from some time away from these issues.

Lets say indeffinitly, and while your away from these issues, could you also stay away from this forum please

Don't start about people's PM's I wouldn't if I where you

It is not a matter of emotional over-reaction it is a matter of your use of "incendiary" unnaceptable words.
This is not an issue of comprehension or misunderstandings. You post these things on a public forum you'd better be aware of how "the public" might react.

We dont care what the forum administrators have said to you-it is us that have to read this disgusting rubbish.

I doubt if Maani or Max has given you total approval.More likely Maani has said that you have some interesting points but try to tone down the aggressiveness.

read again Snow Dog, there's also an inbetween the lines message, that's maybe hard to grasp, but it's there.

And maybe it's just me (and probably Reed) getting that, but it's there.

read carefully, I always do

hopelevre wrote: it seems as tho yu have the torches and noose out....are yu sure its me that is the bigot?

So a jury is bigoted when it weighs up the evidence and finds someone guilty,is it?

The judge is bigoted when he imprisons the offender,after due process?

C'mon get real. Your problem is that you are writing when you should be thinking...

Snow Dog wrote: Depends what you consider rascist I suppose Tuxon

Snow Dog Senior Member Joined: 2005 23 March Location: Wales Online Status: Online Posts: 655

Posted: 2005 26 April at 5:07pm | IP Logged http://www.progarchives.com/forum/edit_post.asp?M=Q&PID=115556&TPN=2"> ....also i have found you cant just dislike a gay man as a person, you cant find them unpleasant ....its more than that.....if you dotn like a gay man the only reason possible is cuz he's gay....these are the types of attitudes that make people intolerant of homos   Not just homosexuals but other races too! __________________ Square for battle, let the fray begin

hopelevre Senior Member Joined: 2005 16 April Location: American Samoa Online Status: Online Posts: 271

Posted: 2005 26 April at 5:10pm | IP Logged http://www.progarchives.com/forum/edit_post.asp?M=Q&PID=115562&TPN=2"> very true snow but i see the percentages the highest among : 1: homosexuals 2: black americans(they just almost 100 % generally are steeped in "hate whitey cuz he's hating you" from the time they are born, of course there are always exceptions, but on the whole they are far more racist towards whites than whites toward them, again this is the dynamic in the states i cant speak for the globe, but I dont see it really being that way anywhere else) Edited by hopelevre on 2005 26 April at 5:12pm

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javascript openWin'pop_up_profile.asp?PF=1831&FID=4','profile','toolbar=0,location=0,status=0,menubar=0,scrollbars=1,resizable=1,width=590,height=425'"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_form.asp?KW=hopelevre&SI=AR&FM=4&FID=4&TID=5526&PN=0&TPN=1"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/pm_new_message_form.asp?name=hopelevre"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/pm_buddy_list.asp?name=hopelevre">

This is clearly racist, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not.

hopelevre Senior Member Joined: 2005 16 April Location: American Samoa Online Status: Online Posts: 271	Posted: 2005 26 April at 7:47pm | IP Logged http://www.progarchives.com/forum/edit_post.asp?M=Q&PID=115670&TPN=2"> i am no racist....in fact i have several black "friends"...tehy come over to my house and i help them produce their songs with my equipment at no charge, yet amongst themselves i am considered a "chump"....tehy will talk derisively about me in my presence in their own esoteric jargon as if im"too white" to see through its negative oversions...nevertheless i dotn hold this against them....i realize this is a product of their environment, and they are welcomed back into my home time and again.....here is a link to a song they freestyled to while i helped lay what i think is definately an innovative-for-the-genre style beat...further, i was very good friends with a homosexual at a time in my life, we spent much time together(up to 3-4 nights a week, including overnight stays in the others' home, i am NOT homophobic)until he realized i would never leave my fiancee or even betray her once sexually with him....i made attempts to rekindle our friendship several times but they wer not allowed to avail me "the p.j.'s" http://s13.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2M7HKOW80YSUS3016XFZ6ZMOE N Edited by hopelevre on 2005 26 April at 7:56pm
Back to Top	javascript openWin'pop_up_profile.asp?PF=1831&FID=4','profile','toolbar=0,location=0,status=0,menubar=0,scrollbars=1,resizable=1,width=590,height=425'"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_form.asp?KW=hopelevre&SI=AR&FM=4&FID=4&TID=5526&PN=0&TPN=1"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/pm_new_message_form.asp?name=hopelevre"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/pm_buddy_list.asp?name=hopelevre">

So the sentence in bold isn't a racist remark??????????????

I don't mind people speaking badly about me, because they are inferior to me anyway.

hopelevre Senior Member Joined: 2005 16 April Location: American Samoa Online Status: Online Posts: 271

Posted: 2005 26 April at 5:20pm | IP Logged http://www.progarchives.com/forum/edit_post.asp?M=Q&PID=115573&TPN=2"> yes of course....leave it to a brit to let us kno the "proper" way....you know nothign of the problem nor how it manifests itself but are content to blame it on the "white" administration....yea yu brits have it all figured out, just dotn allow too many negroes in the country and yu wont have any problems, way to go...by the way ,im caucasian and that same white admin. that is oppressing the negroes is oppressign me the chinese the mexicans and alot of others who werrent born into said admin. but you dotn see us all walking around saying they are singling us out and blaming everyone but ourselves for not being ambitious ebough to do soemhting about it....see , the other oppresesed groups realize the only way to change our situation is to get out there and work for it, the blacks are content to fester in the filth they are in and wait for what they think the world owes them, that is why refugees from 50 years ago now are upper middle class here whereas the blacks economic class is not changing even though they have had the same rights for more years Edited by hopelevre on 2005 26 April at 5:23pm

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javascript openWin'pop_up_profile.asp?PF=1831&FID=4','profile','toolbar=0,location=0,status=0,menubar=0,scrollbars=1,resizable=1,width=590,height=425'"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_form.asp?KW=hopelevre&SI=AR&FM=4&FID=4&TID=5526&PN=0&TPN=1"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/pm_new_message_form.asp?name=hopelevre"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/pm_buddy_list.asp?name=hopelevre">

this bold sentence of course isn't insulting too to the black community??????

hopelevre Senior Member Joined: 2005 16 April Location: American Samoa Online Status: Offline Posts: 274	Posted: 2005 27 April at 12:31am | IP Logged http://www.progarchives.com/forum/edit_post.asp?M=Q&PID=115807&TPN=5"> you say that as if it were a bad thing james...the world is trying to come together not assert their differences as weapons...except in certain groups in the populus
Back to Top	javascript openWin'pop_up_profile.asp?PF=1831&FID=4','profile','toolbar=0,location=0,status=0,menubar=0,scrollbars=1,resizable=1,width=590,height=425'"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_form.asp?KW=hopelevre&SI=AR&FM=4&FID=4&TID=5447&PN=0&TPN=5"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/pm_new_message_form.asp?name=hopelevre"> http://www.progarchives.com/forum/pm_buddy_list.asp?name=hopelevre">

I wonder what he means by this

Anyway I can produce dozens of these

hopelevre wrote: it is so very obvious by tuxon's last post how very shallow the "evidence" against me is and i already countered the argument once in this thread (1st page)......go listen to the rap song i posted that was recorded with the black friends of mine i hate....many americans , black and white will attest to the truth of the phenomena i was describing, to which yu refer to as "clearly racist"

I'm always amazed how these crypto-racists always have "black friends" whom they treat with respect.............

Snow Dog wrote: I think that this is Hopelevres experiece of these issues, not racism.

Ignorance is no excuse for racism; and arrogance is no excuse for ingorance.

Either Hopelevre, you are off your meds or you may want to consider therapy.

Either way, I actually believe you are nothing but a troll and will not continue to feed you.  Altho I'm sure some here will...

threefates wrote: Either way, I actually believe you are nothing but a troll and will not continue to feed you.  Altho I'm sure some here will...

Ok I hear you.

STUM

Of course he's just a Troll, could have been ignoring him from the start.

But then I wouldn't had some laughs at it, but it's nice to give a person a chance to proof he is not evil, and make sure that even the more gullible people are aware of a persons identity as a troll/racist/bigot/asshole.

I agree wholehartedly to ignore him and snow dog for that matter in the future, I deliberatly decided not to ignore him till now for the reasons stated.

Regards and I will remain silent untill further notice.

Ye gods.

Until just now I thought hopelevre was reasonably intelligent, but could do with learning where the Shift key is located.

An Internet troll is either a person who sends messages on the Internet hoping to entice other users into angry or fruitless responses, or a message sent with such content. The term derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" and ultimately from trolling for fish; it first appeared on Usenet. The term is frequently abused to slander opponents in heated debates and is frequently misapplied to those who are ignorant of etiquette.

Trolling is often described as an online version of the breaching experiment, where social boundaries and rules of etiquette are broken. Self-proclaimed trolls often style themselves as Devil's Advocates or gadflies or culture jammers, challenging the dominant discourse and assumptions of the forum they are trolling in an attempt to subvert and introduce different ways of thinking. Detractors who value etiquette claim that true Devil's Advocates generally identify themselves as such for the sake of etiquette, whereas trolls often consider etiquette to be something worth trolling in order to fight groupthink.

Trolls are sometimes caricatured as socially inept. This is often due to the fundamental attribution error, as it is impossible to know the real traits of an individual solely from their online discourse. Indeed, since intentional trolls are alleged to knowingly flout social boundaries, it is difficult to typecast them as socially inept since they have arguably proven adept at their goal.

Hang on no ones done anything to you, and if you read the whole thread yuoll see that Ive supported you throughout. You bring these things on yourself and your an intelligent guy sop you must know this. You write on this forum like a much younger person than you claim to be. 

Youve rubbed me up the wrong way and everyone else, but you fail to see it. Its always someone else to blame as far as your concerned. You are deliberately controversial and overbearing. despiteall this I have tried to be nice to you even listening to your track when yuo PM ed me.

If you revel in the abuse you receive here carry on, if not chill out a little. well thats it for now.

Snow Dog wrote: Have I been blackballed? If I have its unjust I'll wait and see! And its you saying what you believe Im just caught up in this f***k up somehow

Just keep out of it Snowy!!

Remember your personal rating.

This is something that Hopelevre is unaware of and will trip him up over the next fortnight.

hopelevre wrote: unconcerned

Good.

Quite frankly I am surprised hopelevre has been attacked as much as he has on this thread. It is obvious that his feelings were hurt when he recieved some negative feedback and hence he lashed out unreasonably. I am sure we have been in the same situation in our lives. Personally, I think his music warrants more attention and with more positive feedback, I bet you he may become more encouraged to progress beyond where he is at now musicly. I will, say, Hopelevre that if you only wanted musicians opinions on your music, you should have stated that in the 1st place.

As far as Hopelevre being a racist and a homophobe , I just don't see it. Not everyone has to have politically correct statements ALL the time. He never said lets lynch the blacks or I hate gays. EVERYONE merits some negative feedback. We as humans are not perfect and if Hopelevre wants to point out those imperfections, he ought to be allowed to without being attacked.

I'm the gay one on this forum and if his comments didn't bother me, then tell me why should  they bother you? Nothing irritates me more than a bunch of hypersensitive people who are trying to shelter gays or minorities from the cruel world.

threefates wrote: The problem with that Greg is that nobodys comments bothers you.

That isn't true Linda....but I will not lay down specifics as I do not want to expose my weak points and vulnerabilities. You have a gay son so i can understand your desire to protect over him.

Screw it, it's all fun and games. Life's too short and trolls are transitory.

The real problem is that there's been a relative shortage of VC lately. He's the Krazy Glue that keeps this place healthy.

gdub411 wrote: Quite frankly I am surprised hopelevre has been attacked as much as he has on this thread. It is obvious that his feelings were hurt when he recieved some negative feedback and hence he lashed out unreasonably. I am sure we have been in the same situation in our lives. Personally, I think his music warrants more attention and with more positive feedback, I bet you he may become more encouraged to progress beyond where he is at now musicly. I will, say, Hopelevre that if you only wanted musicians opinions on your music, you should have stated that in the 1st place. As far as Hopelevre being a racist and a homophobe , I just don't see it. Not everyone has to have politically correct statements ALL the time. He never said lets lynch the blacks or I hate gays. EVERYONE merits some negative feedback. We as humans are not perfect and if Hopelevre wants to point out those imperfections, he ought to be allowed to without being attacked. I'm the gay one on this forum and if his comments didn't bother me, then tell me why should  they bother you? Nothing irritates me more than a bunch of hypersensitive people who are trying to shelter gays or minorities from the cruel world.

I agree with you entirely.