Umphreys McGee and Phish to be moved
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Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55464
Printed Date: December 04 2024 at 09:51
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Topic: Umphreys McGee and Phish to be moved
Posted By: darkshade
Subject: Umphreys McGee and Phish to be moved
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 20:09
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im here to say that Umphrey's McGee should be moved to another genre on this site. possibly eclectic. i recently read a new review of one of their albums (Anchor Drops) and the person gave it 1 star, partially because he was led on to thinking these guys were a pure jazz-rock/fusion band. i can see this happening more often, since a good majority of their music is NOT jazz related at all. These guys play a mix of rock, funk, jazz-rock, metal, guitar shredding (in a jazz, rock, funk, and metal context), not to mention most of their songs have rock-type vocals, which IMO makes it not jazz-rock (im not saying you cant have vocals in jazz). not to mention other sites and magazines call UMcG progressive rock or jam band (which is another category they fall under) and almost never mention jazz (unless describing certain songs. the band is more eclectic and varies in what they play. having them under the jazz-rock section is missleading and confusing. whoever put them there, or suggested them be there, may have only heard Nothing Too Fancy, or Andy's Last Beer or whatever. Im also going to take this opportunity to mention that Phish should not be in prog-related and should also be moved. Ive made this comment before and have tried to get them moved before, but it didnt work, probably because i did not have enough support or not enough people heard their music. this band is another 'jam band' but a good majority of their output is completely prog rock. You Enjoy Myself, The Divided Sky, David Bowie, Reba, Rift, Harpua, the list goes on and on. These are all progressive rock masterpieces and most written in a terrible period for the genre (late 80s). the fact that they are under a non-prog category is EMBARRASSING! it is common knowledge (if you know Phish's music) that they made some of the best prog rock ever. Unfortunately, many people on this site dismiss them as prog because they may only know OF them (thus thinking they're a Grateful Dead wanna-be hippie jam band) or took time to listen to some stuff, but may have heard the wrong song or album (the last few albums of theirs is, admittedly, not really prog) their first 4-5 albums plus scattered songs on other albums, plus live-only songs that didnt get recorded on studio albums is proof enough they should be in a prog category. they're one of the highest rated "non-prog" bands here, for a reason. They ARE prog. so i say they should ALSO be moved to eclectic since they played many different styles of music, but in no way were (are) they not prog rock. please take deep consideration for both these bands. thank you. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Replies:
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: February 10 2009 at 01:56
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Thanks for the post and for your thoughts, Incidentally, I myself listen(ed) to UmG and Phish (I'm a big fan of the latter), and have reported McGee's case after hearing "The Bottom Half". You're right, it doesn't immediately strike you as the kind of jazz-rock we're used to hear from the classics, and it's neither "experimental" to be called something out of "ordinary". I have discussed a possible move from JR/F with one of the genre's specialists here, and he thought that UmG practice a healthy kind of jam and jazz by which they fit in the genre. About Phish, I think the issue has been brought before, maybe you (we) can dig up those past discussions, if they took place. For sure though, I think the best compromise would be Crossover, because the "jam" itself is a proper, independent style of music (sure, "eclectic salads" and "improvisation" are at the base of jam, but that's, IMO, not such a strong argument to say that "a style of music" turns out into "many styles of music), there's a powerfull mainstream ethos in much of the music, whilst, sure, some of their "art rock" could be called prog rock/progressive. One thing I would point out is to try to leave aside arguments such as "when they've put band X in genre Y, they must have only listened to a couple of songs: a,b,c,d,e,f". At least in the years I've been a Collaborator, I've rarely observed this kind of attitude from my colleagues. Instead, we always try to listen to as much music as possible, in order to make the best possible picture. ------------- 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 10 2009 at 14:46
I would be so very happy if, whenever bringing up the issue of a band's placement, people tried not to sound accusatory towards the collaborators. In the early days of the site there were no genre teams, and anyone could add bands. Some of the teams have embarked in 'cleanup' sessions, but they are very time-consuming and demanding, and I'd like to remind you all that we have a life that sometimes gets in the way Anyway, bands can be, and get, moved, but it takes the agreement of BOTH the teams concerned - in the case of Phish, the Admin Team for Prog-Related. As far as I can remember, the Crossover team did at one time evaluate Phish for a move, but then something happened, and things didn't go any further. I'll ask Micky later tonight when he gets home. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: February 12 2009 at 10:00
i see. yea get Micky in on this. there are a good amount of ppl here who would agree with what i said in my original post. and sorry, i didnt mean to come off mean. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 13 2009 at 09:50
| Local Band Does O.K. arrived yesterday. Listened to it twice so far and really like it, too (Mantis came first) Anchordrops is still on the way. I can see how they might get placed in the Jazz/Rock sub, but the album really as a whole is eclectic, as is Mantis. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 13:01
i would say LBDOK is their most jazzy album, with each subsequent album having more prog influences, including DT, Yes, Zappa influences, with Mantis probably being their most prog album so far. it's hard to tell which is their best so far, as im still trying to put Mantis in context with their other albums. But Anchor Drops is probably their best un until Mantis. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Slartibartfast wrote:Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 13:07
once you're familiar with Anchor Drops and the other albums, i think a live album is the next natural step with Umphrey's. I'd personally go with Live at the Murat, which came out in 2007 (recorded in 2007 as well i think). really showcases the live Umphrey's experience. Once you get into the live material, you're a fan for good. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 13:19
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I just gave Anchor drops 1 star and you may be referring to me. I'd be happy if they were moved. Moved off the site entirely. They hold no interest to me in any prog sense whatsoever and I am surprised they have a following here. But if you like them, more power to you. It's not personal. Its business.
------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 13:38
i understand, dont wanna get into a fight. of course, i also feel there's some bands/artists that shouldnt be here either, but whatcha gonna do?  but you're saying Phish being here is ok, but Umphrey's should go? I dont know why you'd want them (Umphrey's McGee or Phish) off the site, as they are a prog rock, by classic prog definitions or by progressive music definitions ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 20:02
Don't know the first thing abut Phish, so no opinion on them. I mean I know about them and the type of music but have no albums and have no interest in them. ------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 16 2009 at 06:04
I was. From what I've heard so far I'm thinking 1 star rating has got to be overly harsh for anything this band has put out, but I'll have to wait until it gets here to see where you're coming from. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: February 16 2009 at 20:06
hmm my only warning would be watch out for the 4th track. otherwise i think you'll enjoy immensely ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 16 2009 at 20:23
I came home from work to find it still wasn't in my mailbox.  All in good time. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 20 2009 at 16:33
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I can't make the show but apparently they are rather popular around here: http://www.umphreys.com/home/shows.php#show_id_1493 - Variety Playhouse - SOLD OUT Fri, Feb 20th, 2009 Atlanta, Georgia |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 20 2009 at 16:47
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I put in a vote for eclectic especially for Umphrey's. Phish's recorded material also falls in that category pretty well though the shows I've seen are more jazz like. (In fact the only Phish I listen to are live albums)
1 star should be a pretty rare rating, and given Umphrey's talent, it's ridiculous. But we all get our vote, so what are you going to do? It's seems like intentionally trying to work the ratings to me. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 20 2009 at 17:50
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I had forgotten about last night's show and couldn't make it anyway due
to dealing with vehicle problems. I was considering tonight's only to find it sold out. Well, I'm enjoying Mantis at the moment and if I'm lucky Anchor Drops will be in the mailbox when I get home as consolation.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 15:22
I assure you, I was not trying to work the ratings. I don't like the album and it ranks in the bottom 3% of all CD's I own. I don't think it is prog either but I was not trying to bring it down due to that fact. I could certainly go on and on but that is not the purpose of the thread and I am not trying to rile up people who like them. If people like them, that is fine by me. I have much more important things to worry about. I just wanted to put out a review that would give an opposite viewpoint so people who are unfamiliar with them will get two sides of the story. ------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 10:22
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so has anyone else felt this band should be moved to eclectic? i know a few here have been trying to get the message across
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 10:36
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See my response in the thread you started in the Suggest New Bands Section...
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 10:39
haha i didnt start that thread, but i saw it, and my response is "cool!"  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: June 26 2012 at 15:23
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Phish is still under prog-related, but if Umphrey's McGee are under a prog category, I don't understand why Phish is not. Some of Phish's songs are more prog than Umphrey's are. Both bands should be under eclectic prog.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: June 26 2012 at 16:21
| I never understood why Umphreys Mcgee were on Fusion, and I said before they should be moved, so i'm glad they have. About Phish I only have two albums and they do deserve a place on eclectic, I agree! |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: June 26 2012 at 16:33
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Umphrey's first 2 studio albums did lean heavily towards jazz-fusion, and their live shows from '03-'05 also had a lot of jazzy, fusion jams. Since then they progressed to more variety in their sound, thus eclectic. But Phish have ALWAYS been eclectic, though they also had their jazz-fusion era. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 03 2012 at 13:58
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No one cares?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 04 2012 at 07:11
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The best way to deal with this is to have an internal vote in the team and decide if you think he should be moved (for the band that sits in "your" genre) - once you decided you can pass this on to the team that you intend to pass it on
For a band that is not in "your" team, you could suggest the same to the team that are "responsible" for them
hope this helps
 (that is what we do in PM team if such matters arise) |