Watchmen
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Topic: Watchmen
Posted By: manofmystery
Subject: Watchmen
Date Posted: January 04 2009 at 20:40
Having read the legendary graphic novel Watchmen by Alan Moore, and having seen the 2nd trailer for the film version, I agree with Moore's assessment that his work is "inherently unfilmable" . Originally I had hopes that it might be ok, considering director Zach Snyder had originally promised a faithful adaptation but the more I hear and see about the upcoming film this hope dims. I mean the 2nd trailer is just ridiculous! So, I ask those of you who have read Watchmen: Is there any chance this film won't be a complete disaster?
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Time always wins.
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Replies:
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: January 04 2009 at 20:46
I had such faith in this when I saw the teaser attached to TDK, but it looks like cheese at best at this point. It got a thumbs up from Kevin Smith and his producer Scott Mosier (Mosier's endorsement intrigues me a lot more because Smith, God love him, sometimes goes with his geek gut on films), but I went from losing sleep over the first trailer to total indifference.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 04 2009 at 21:10
I read them one by one as comix when they first came out.. seems to me you'd want to avoid a faithful version in film and go in a different direction, the trailer I saw looked a little, well, comic-bookie, like X-Men or something
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 04 2009 at 21:34
That's a good song in the beginning by I don't remember (before it breaks into freaking Muse), but that didn't work. And Rorschach now just sounds stupid instead of badass. Christian Bale was pushing it as it was with that Batman voice...
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: January 05 2009 at 03:13
If it's meant to be a faithful adaptation of the novel (not only storywise) it will most likely fail in all the important aspects. If it's meant to be an entertaining action/slapstick flick, something to watch while eating popcorn, it has a chance.
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 05 2009 at 13:05
First time I hear about this Watchmen stuff... just saw the trailer and I´m reading a bit about the comic in Wikipedia... I´ve never been a fan of comics, will this make me feel any different?
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 05 2009 at 13:31
el böthy wrote:
First time I hear about this Watchmen stuff... just saw the trailer and I´m reading a bit about the comic in Wikipedia... I´ve never been a fan of comics, will this make me feel any different? |
Probably. It was the only graphic novel on Time's 100 Best Books of the Century list, because it's as in depth as a novel.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 05 2009 at 17:29
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: January 05 2009 at 18:49
a big time hollywood film of this work can't be properly made. I'm convinced that the only chance to make a decent film, that would even come close to complex Moore work, would be to make a two or three parter without the illusions of making a blockbuster. Don't dumb it down or make is flashy in hopes of getting a wider audience, which seems to be what they have done, at least from what I've seen.
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 05 2009 at 23:22
I think it will be great as long as Fox doesn't mess with it after acquiring rights to it. I just hope the altered ending will work.
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Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: January 05 2009 at 23:32
I was hopeful the first time I saw the trailer. Now it looks rather silly, and Synder has apparently changed the ending from the book. Also it may not even get released due to the recent lawsuit that Fox pictures has won against WB.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 00:01
BroSpence wrote:
I was hopeful the first time I saw the trailer. Now it looks rather silly, and Synder has apparently changed the ending from the book. Also it may not even get released due to the recent lawsuit that Fox pictures has won against WB. |
If you cut out the the references to the original ending (which you would since that would make the movie far too long), then the new and the old have the same effect.
Although I'm hoping that the talk about the new ending is a cover for the real ending that will surprise everyone.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: January 06 2009 at 01:58
Henry Plainview wrote:
Although I'm hoping that the talk about the new ending is a cover for the real ending that will surprise everyone. |
I hope your right because the ending I've heard makes no sense
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 12:27
I don't have high hopes for this one. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 14:05
I've always felt that media such as comics and video games can have just as much drama and hard-hitting moments on film as a freshly-written script and/or novel adaptation could.
However, when a film compnay obtains rights to such things, they seem to not have enough faith in the source material themselves, so rather than staying true to the original, they always seem to deviate. There are very, very few comic and game-to-film adaptations that are worth watching, and none of them have ever stayed true to the source.
Funny, actually. These film companies think it's in the films' best interests to change or alter the original material, yet how do they know it wouldn;t be a success if they left it alone? It's never been tried before, and their way (which involves changing entire storylines and characters most of the time) certainly isn't working, either.
I want to see a film adaptation of this type really succeed, but that will only happen if the film companies learn to have respect for the original story and do it justice. I mean, the fans of these comics and games are the ones who are going to see the film garaunteed, so why in God's green f**k would they want to alienate those sure-fire ticket-buyers by ruining their movie? Makes no sense . . .
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 15:20
I like to think of myself as an optimist by nature, but these trailers really don't give me much hope. I worry this film will just gloss over every plot point like it's ticking them off a list. So many adaptations (of comics, novels, anything really) seem to end up that way. Watchmen is such a dense book with so many moments worthy of inclusion that I can't imagine this film being any different.
I'll still be going to see it, of course, gibbering with excitement all the while. What's all this about changing the ending, by the way? Why? How? WHY?
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 17:08
Trouserpress wrote:
I like to think of myself as an optimist by nature, but these trailers really don't give me much hope. I worry this film will just gloss over every plot point like it's ticking them off a list. So many adaptations (of comics, novels, anything really) seem to end up that way. Watchmen is such a dense book with so many moments worthy of inclusion that I can't imagine this film being any different.
I'll still be going to see it, of course, gibbering with excitement all the while. What's all this about changing the ending, by the way? Why? How? WHY?
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He said that he thought the squid wouldn't work in movie form because it's a bit silly and it's hard to convey the proper atmosphere from the book into the movie, so he was doing something else. I think it was a nuke or something but you'd have to google it.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 18:00
Henry Plainview wrote:
Trouserpress wrote:
I like to think of myself as an optimist by nature, but these trailers really don't give me much hope. I worry this film will just gloss over every plot point like it's ticking them off a list. So many adaptations (of comics, novels, anything really) seem to end up that way. Watchmen is such a dense book with so many moments worthy of inclusion that I can't imagine this film being any different.
I'll still be going to see it, of course, gibbering with excitement all the while. What's all this about changing the ending, by the way? Why? How? WHY?
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He said that he thought the squid wouldn't work in movie form because it's a bit silly and it's hard to convey the proper atmosphere from the book into the movie, so he was doing something else. I think it was a nuke or something but you'd have to google it. |
A nuke? Oh I do hope not... That'd just lead to scores of cretins accusing the film (and by association Moore/Gibbons) of ripping off Heroes. I don't think I could bear that.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 18:03
I remember that. I told my friends (who saw it going down a very steep hill after season 1) that it was nothing more than a soap opera for geeks that jumped the shark.
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 18:16
stonebeard wrote:
I remember that. I told my friends (who saw it going down a very steep hill after season 1) that it was nothing more than a soap opera for geeks that jumped the shark.
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It had promise but it never really came through with the goods. Too
many characters, too much money, too much dodgy dialogue, too many
missed opportunities. I still pissed away hours of my life watching the
whole first season, mind you.
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 01:52
I'm told the explosion will be made to look like it was the fault of Dr. Manhattan, which just doesn't work because it changes the whole direction of the character.
What is he going to do afterward?
-If he doesn't take the blame then it doesn't work outright.
-If he does take the blame then what, he says he's going to go keep watch of the world from the moon and if we don't play nice he'll do it again? If he takes the blame and leaves then all that does is even the playing field between the US and USSR.
oh and, eveyone knows this doesn't make sense as Doc's behavior, any of it, any of the above
either way, the goal of unity won't be achieved
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 02:34
I think it might actually be quite good.Though on first glance i thought it looked like it was going to be a cross of 300 and mystery men lol.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 08:37
I need the full comic book but I'm not waiting for the movie!
------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world
of searchers with the help from
crimson king
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:03
Definitely should have listened to Alan Moore...
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 10:58
Uh, although I still need to read the novel, Im pretty excited to see this! And I´ve heard very positiv things about how Snyder made an "unfilmable comic" work on screen! Anyone seen it already?
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 12:18
I'm going to the world premier on Wednesday thanks to my connections to the theater industry. I don't think it looked TOO cheesy in the trailers. The one thing that immediately stood out to me on watching the trailers and such is that I think they did a terrible job of casting Ozymandius. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong.
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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 12:22
I'm waiting for Sin City II.
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Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 12:42
I know nothing about Watchmen but I'm going to watch the movie first then read the graphic novel.
------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal.
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 13:37
crimhead wrote:
I'm waiting for Sin City II. |
They already released that, called it "The Spirit"
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 13:46
I bought the comic book last week:Watchmen is a true masterpiece.I also enjoyed Moore-Lloyd's Vendetta.I still don't expect much from the movie but why not?
------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world
of searchers with the help from
crimson king
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 17:38
[QUOTE=Henry Plainview]That's a good song in the beginning by I don't remember (before it breaks into freaking Muse),/QUOTE] It's one of the songs from Koyaanisqatsi by Philip Glass, pretty sure it's either Pruit Igoe or Resource.
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 21:10
TheCaptain wrote:
I know nothing about Watchmen but I'm going to watch the movie first then read the graphic novel.
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I would heavily advise doing the opposite
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 01 2009 at 21:13
Indeed. I just finished the comic a couple of days ago and it's freaking awesome. The movie might turn out to be a cheeseball that leaves you entirely turned off from the comic.
Although, at least it seems that the movie isn't gonna spoil the really freaking surprising ending for you.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 00:43
rileydog22 wrote:
Indeed. I just finished the comic a couple of days ago and it's freaking awesome. The movie might turn out to be a cheeseball that leaves you entirely turned off from the comic.
Although, at least it seems that the movie isn't gonna spoil the really freaking surprising ending for you.
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From what I've read, I think the movie ending makes more sense than the graphic novel's. Now, that may have been part of the point, what with subverting forms and all that, but it's still a little frustrating for people with ESP to show up suddenly at the end of the book when only Dr. Manhattan has superpowers before.
And don't worry people who haven't read the book yet, that's not really a spoiler.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 21:19
I've read some reviews which say its pretty average.I'll buy the book this week i expect then i may have a clue what the reviewers are talking about lol.They seem to compare to spider man though which doesn't make it sound very hopeful :(
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 22:46
I've got my midnight tickets. Should be fun no matter what.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 02 2009 at 23:04
look for a follow up poll after I see the film:
Was this film a complete distaster?
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: March 07 2009 at 21:25
I saw the movie today, and it was very very close to the original graphic novel; it was translated about as good as I figure it could have been. The ending is different, but it doesn't really matter, since the new ending has the same thematic effect. The problem was that it was too much like the source material. It didn't really add much to the story, except for the fight scenes, which were very good. It's pretty much exactly like the book, but by virtue of being a movie, it had to do away with many details from the original. They tried to just turn Watchmen into a movie, without changing anything to play to the strengths of the new medium. The movie is very enjoyable and well-made, but it's so similar you might as well just read the book, since you'll learn a lot more details and really only lose a few cool fights.
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 01:44
Sasquamo wrote:
I saw the movie today, and it was very very close to the original graphic novel; it was translated about as good as I figure it could have been. The ending is different, but it doesn't really matter, since the new ending has the same thematic effect. The problem was that it was too much like the source material. It didn't really add much to the story, except for the fight scenes, which were very good. It's pretty much exactly like the book, but by virtue of being a movie, it had to do away with many details from the original. They tried to just turn Watchmen into a movie, without changing anything to play to the strengths of the new medium. The movie is very enjoyable and well-made, but it's so similar you might as well just read the book, since you'll learn a lot more details and really only lose a few cool fights. |
really? If you do anything, read the book and don't see the film, you won't miss the fight scenes.
here is the review i posted in the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48620 - list/discuss/rate - your recently watched movies thread:
manofmystery wrote:
Warning: Some Spoilers
Watchmen - the unfilmable story is just that and even if you enjoy this movie you must agree because, this isn't Watchmen. Sure the characters are all there and a lot of the dialog is unchanged but what's been rewritten, what's been changed to fit the self imposed movie time restrictions, makes this another hollywood adaptation failure. Two things sink this movie: 1) For some ungodly reason they thought this story could be told in a little less than 3 hrs. The result of this is an incredibly cramped story with many of the characters stories cut short, or cut all together (newstand characters not welcome untill SPOILER: they are seen in the NY explosion with no explaination as to why they are important). The ending is what suffers most from this lack of proper length as it seems like it was changed because they didnt want to dedicate the time to explaining the more complicated one from Moore's novel. 2) Ozymandias: In order to get his ending to make some sense this character was warped and rearranged and his background story was completely missing.
Some other things that didn't help:
- Rorschach's voice: you do sort of get used to it as the movie progresses but when you first hear him you expect "I am Batman" to be right around the bend. Remember when you finally saw the face that went along with James Earl Jones' powerful, imposing Darth Vader voice?
- Do you really need to slow down every fight scene Zach? And adding a blood splatter to every possible scene gets to be a bit much.
- This one bothers me a lot because it is so unnecessary (might have something to do with the Snyder film making flaw in the previous point): Rorschach's reason for becoming what he has is unacceptably altered for seemingly no other reason than to add another brutal scene and epic blood splatter. SPOILER: One of the greastest parts of Watchmen (the novel) is Rorschach giving the little girl's killer his options then setting his house ablaze: brilliant writing like "Shouldn’t bother trying to saw through handcuffs. Never make it in time" replaced by a meat clever to the head. Yeah, Zach, great job, that little extra blood was much better than a fire (HEAVY SARCASM: a fire? who wants that? more blood is what we need, 300 gallons already is not enough) coupled with great Rorschach dialog. Man, this completely useless change pisses me off.
- SPOILER: Hollis Mason is seen once then never mentioned again. That ridiculous "NOOOOO" scene from Dan you saw in the commercials was for Rorschach and not Hollis, which would have made much more sense. If you have to add a ridiculous hackneyed "NOOOO" scene at least put in the proper moment.
There are some things to enjoy:
- The Comedian: his character is handled properly throughout and the lines and other bits added for the movie land effectively
- The opening montage: loved this, the series of clips are priceless
- Vietnam
- Thought they did a fine job with Dr. Manhattan (at least till the end debacle) and Night Owl (at least till the end debacle)
- Laurie was really f'n hot
- Everything looked right visually (except maybe Nixon's nose)
Terry Gilliam signed on to make this film in the 80s but lacked the funding. In 1996, when the rights to the story changed hands, Gilliam was asked if he was still interested in the project to which he responded, "I think it's going to be impossible to make as a film, unless you make it three and a half hours long, which most people aren't going to want"
My point in adding this bit of backstory is that I agree with Gilliam that it would have to be a long film and disagree with that being something people wouldn't want. Had this been handled like say, the Lord of the Rings, this could have been a monster two or three part series of films that told the entire story the correct way. You would think with the success of the Rings films such a concept would have been at least considered. Come to think of it, an HBO mini series may have been the better option because then it could be made long enough to tell the entire story (without needing to release pieces like Black Freighter separately) and then divided into sections. Anyway you slice it, Watchmen can't be told in 2 hrs and 40 min and it hasn't been here. |
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 01:57
manofmystery wrote:
look for a follow up poll after I see the film:
Was this film a complete distaster? |
Nope. It was pretty good.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 08:24
After having seen a scene from "Watchmen" I must say I have no intention of reading it. Nor will I watch the movie.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 09:35
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 11:47
Please don't judge the graphic novel by clips of the movie. They are two very different animals. The graphic novel is a deep and flawlessly written and visualized deconstruction of the superhero while the film emphasises action, trying to jam in the substance as it goes. I don't read comics myself but I felt compelled to read Watchmen and I'm glad I did because it turned out to be one of the best books I've ever read. All I can say to you is: just read it, don't see the movie, just read the book and see what you think. Can't tell you how you'll like it, that's up to you.
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 11:54
BaldFriede wrote:
After having seen a scene from "Watchmen" I must say I have no intention of reading it. Nor will I watch the movie.
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I cannot imagine a bigger mistake related to films and their source material.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 12:02
Making it really long would make it even more pointless. The story has been told in graphic novel form, and there's really no need to tell it in another form. Like I said, there's very little a movie can do that a graphic novel can't. The graphic novel gives you all the visualization of the characters and setting that you need, and you can draw plenty of emotion from dialog and facial expressions. Fight scenes are more exhilarating in full motion film, but there are so few in Watchmen that it doesn't really matter. So, you could make a ten hour movie that was exactly like the book, right down to every detail, and it would still be totally extraneous. If the movie's going to be exactly the same as the book, then what reason is there to make the movie in the first place?
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Posted By: mwg5439
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 13:08
I was very happy with the movie (saw it in Imax with some friends a couple days ago) but have never read the graphic novel. My friend who has though said it was pretty faithful to the original with only one difference towards the end.
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Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 15:53
I finally went to the movies to see Watchmen:I must admit this is a very good film.Of course it doesn't equal the graphic novel but it's powerful,well made with lots of trippy moments(some images reminded me of Hypgnosis' artworks).
------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world
of searchers with the help from
crimson king
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 20:05
Friede,
I have not read Watchmen but I was listening to a review programme on the radio about the film. Apparently the film has a lot of violence in it in places, whilst the graphic novel does not.
So please do not be put off by the clips you have seen and read the original graphic novel.
I plan to do so myself eventually.
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: March 08 2009 at 21:15
I saw the film 2 days ago and liked it. Will read the book eventually.
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 02:04
Sasquamo wrote:
Making it really long would make it even more pointless. The story has been told in graphic novel form, and there's really no need to tell it in another form. Like I said, there's very little a movie can do that a graphic novel can't. The graphic novel gives you all the visualization of the characters and setting that you need, and you can draw plenty of emotion from dialog and facial expressions. Fight scenes are more exhilarating in full motion film, but there are so few in Watchmen that it doesn't really matter. So, you could make a ten hour movie that was exactly like the book, right down to every detail, and it would still be totally extraneous. If the movie's going to be exactly the same as the book, then what reason is there to make the movie in the first place? |
Nobody seemed to mind the Lord of the Rings films
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 06:53
stonebeard wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
After having seen a scene from "Watchmen" I must say I have no intention of reading it. Nor will I watch the movie.
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I cannot imagine a bigger mistake related to films and their source material.
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Plus keep in mind that the people who make the trailers are not the ones who make the movie! Trailers are made by small production companies hired by the big company executives. What they look for is to make something as appealing as possible, and Watchmen (although very appealing) isn´t appealing in a mainstream way, so the trailer must focus on those more "pop-corn" related subjects such as big special effects, catch frases and fight scenes. The original idea can really change from the actual movie to the trailer. I remember watching the "Zodiac" trailer and thinking this must be one of the most boring dectective-catch the bad guy before it´s too late movies ever, until I saw it was made by David Fincher... and Zodiac kicks f**king ass!!! Another example is "The break-up", and although the movie is terribly bad (and no trailer can make it seem like a good movie), the trailer did promise the new "comedy of the year" with two very "funny" actors... and the movie is not funny at all, and not because it´s a flawed comedy, or at least not only and primarly, but because the movie is a light drama... but the trailer did not let you know that... trailers must be taken carefully.
And I´m reading Watchmen... it´s even better than what I imagined it would be, and at the same time it´s not something incredibly innovative... it´s just extremly well written and thought! Kudos Alan Moore!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 07:26
manofmystery wrote:
Sasquamo wrote:
Making it really long would make it even more pointless. The story has been told in graphic novel form, and there's really no need to tell it in another form. Like I said, there's very little a movie can do that a graphic novel can't. The graphic novel gives you all the visualization of the characters and setting that you need, and you can draw plenty of emotion from dialog and facial expressions. Fight scenes are more exhilarating in full motion film, but there are so few in Watchmen that it doesn't really matter. So, you could make a ten hour movie that was exactly like the book, right down to every detail, and it would still be totally extraneous. If the movie's going to be exactly the same as the book, then what reason is there to make the movie in the first place? |
Nobody seemed to mind the Lord of the Rings films |
Oh no he didn´t!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 15:20
manofmystery wrote:
Sasquamo wrote:
Making it really long would make it even more pointless. The story has been told in graphic novel form, and there's really no need to tell it in another form. Like I said, there's very little a movie can do that a graphic novel can't. The graphic novel gives you all the visualization of the characters and setting that you need, and you can draw plenty of emotion from dialog and facial expressions. Fight scenes are more exhilarating in full motion film, but there are so few in Watchmen that it doesn't really matter. So, you could make a ten hour movie that was exactly like the book, right down to every detail, and it would still be totally extraneous. If the movie's going to be exactly the same as the book, then what reason is there to make the movie in the first place? |
Nobody seemed to mind the Lord of the Rings films |
The Lord of the Rings was originally a normal book, with nothing other than words for description. Therefore, although the films didn't add much to the story or characters, it managed to be extremely entertaining by providing visualization to characters, settings, and battles that we could only imagine before. Watchmen is a graphic novel, so it has lots of pictures to show characters, emotions, and settings. The graphic novel format works great for the story. Their is so little action that movement to the pictures isn't necessary and wouldn't add much. What I'm trying to say is, a graphic novel is already so close to a movie that if you're going from a graphic novel to a movie, something should be changed or expanded to keep it interesting. A straight adaptation simply won't cut it like it does for normal novels like Lord of the Rings.
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Posted By: Gustavo Froes
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 15:39
manofmystery wrote:
Having read the legendary graphic novel Watchmen by Alan Moore, and having seen the 2nd trailer for the film version, I agree with Moore's assessment that his work is "inherently unfilmable" . Originally I had hopes that it might be ok, considering director Zach Snyder had originally promised a faithful adaptation but the more I hear and see about the upcoming film this hope dims. I mean the 2nd trailer is just ridiculous! So, I ask those of you who have read Watchmen: Is there any chance this film won't be a complete disaster? |
Hmm...probably not.I agree that the trailer was disastrous.But let me ask you something.... I've noticed your activity in amny movie-concerned threads,and you actually seem to have a great taste/understanding for cinema.Did you ACTUALLY liked the oscar winning movie in your avatar??
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 23:01
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 23:17
Gustavo Froes wrote:
Did you ACTUALLY liked the oscar winning movie in your avatar??
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No Country For Old Men was a great film. I was surprised to learn that so many people missed the point and were really angry about the ending.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 09 2009 at 23:28
What was the point?
I probably know, but let's hear it.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 02:15
stonebeard wrote:
What was the point?
I probably know, but let's hear it.
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Real life is not a movie, and sometimes things are not resolved because the bad guy can flip heads too. Although Cormac is stridently atheist in The Road, the movie's stance on God is unclear, so perhaps there is resolution in the next life. You could interpret it has another nail in the senseless nihilism the Coens Brothers have been building for years, and I know some people who have, but http://www.thehousenextdooronline.com/2007/11/point-blank-no-country-for-old-men.html - I think you'd be wrong.
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Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 03:59
Watchmen wasn't bad at all. Very faithful to the original comic. Me likey!
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 04:53
Saw it yesterday. My reaction:
"Well, that was certainly a film of Watchmen, there".
Ultimately, it was as good as it probably ever could be given the limits of film as a framework and the huge amount of material needing to be condensed/selected from in order to effectively tell the story. Ultimately, though, did it actually need to happen?
Oh, and Friede, surely you know better than to judge a book by the film it's based on? The film, I grant you, can come across as a mindless action flick at times but to dismiss Moore/Gibbon's visionary work as a mindless action comic by association is simply a huge mistake. The graphic novel is a book about people and ideas; far-reaching in its implications, astonishing in its depth and simply one of the most absorbing books I've ever read.
Have you never wondered what a world with superheros would really be like? What could drive a rational human being to dress up in a silly costume and start apprehending criminals and getting in the way of the police? The kind of flaws and insecurities such a person might have? That (and much more besides) is what drives the book. Mindless it is not. Please give it a go sometime.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 07:07
Trouserpress wrote:
Saw it yesterday. My reaction:
"Well, that was certainly a film of Watchmen, there".
Ultimately, it was as good as it probably ever could be given the limits of film as a framework and the huge amount of material needing to be condensed/selected from in order to effectively tell the story. Ultimately, though, did it actually need to happen?
Oh, and Friede, surely you know better than to judge a book by the film it's based on? The film, I grant you, can come across as a mindless action flick at times but to dismiss Moore/Gibbon's visionary work as a mindless action comic by association is simply a huge mistake. The graphic novel is a book about people and ideas; far-reaching in its implications, astonishing in its depth and simply one of the most absorbing books I've ever read.
Have you never wondered what a world with superheros would really be like? What could drive a rational human being to dress up in a silly costume and start apprehending criminals and getting in the way of the police? The kind of flaws and insecurities such a person might have? That (and much more besides) is what drives the book. Mindless it is not. Please give it a go sometime.
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I read up on "Watchmen", but I am still not convinced. This is not because I am generally against comics, by the way; I do love, for example, the "Canardo" series of Benoit Sokal (which I hereby highly recommend). Canardo is a duck ("Canard" is French for "duck") who looks like Columbo and acts like Phillip Marlowe. I may give "Watchmen" a try, though at the moment other readings are on my agenda.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Gustavo Froes
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 12:46
It's not the ending that bothers me.The film's pretention towards 'intellectual'(for example,the complete absence of soundtrack)is just ridiculous and annoying Javier Barden is a great actor,but wasn't for some nice dialogs here and there(that last scene isn't one of them) and Tommy Lee Jones,this would be a complete disaster.If the question sounded like 'implication',sorry,it wasn't my intention.
Just please tell me WHAT makes this movie so great.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 13:00
Gustavo Froes wrote:
It's not the ending that bothers me.The film's pretention towards 'intellectual'(for example,the complete absence of soundtrack)is just ridiculous and annoying Javier Barden is a great actor,but wasn't for some nice dialogs here and there(that last scene isn't one of them) and Tommy Lee Jones,this would be a complete disaster.If the question sounded like 'implication',sorry,it wasn't my intention.
Just please tell me WHAT makes this movie so great.
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Why is not having a soundtrack a pretension of intellectualism?
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 14:27
Henry Plainview wrote:
Gustavo Froes wrote:
It's not the ending that bothers me.The film's pretention towards 'intellectual'(for example,the complete absence of soundtrack)is just ridiculous and annoying Javier Barden is a great actor,but wasn't for some nice dialogs here and there(that last scene isn't one of them) and Tommy Lee Jones,this would be a complete disaster.If the question sounded like 'implication',sorry,it wasn't my intention.
Just please tell me WHAT makes this movie so great.
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Why is not having a soundtrack a pretension of intellectualism? |
What makes to movie so great? Hard to say... personally I think it just gets you so into the feeling of the movie, of what´s happening, the quiet desperation... and Barden scares the sh*t out of me and I can´t stop watching him. But maybe, maybe, what, at least I, like the most about this movie... are these two things: first it´s probably the best hidden comedy of all time, you don´t really laugh at any moment, but it´s just so... not even funny, but comic... so Coen brothers (whom I come to like much more than I used to). Having a practically unstoppable killer like that is with almost cartoon like qualities is just so ridiculous and yet you never question it, it´s just a bit weird but not off puting at all. Making this kind of effect is extremly hard, specially because of it´s subtility. But maybe that´s just me. And secondly... I love how it ends. It just... ends. "And what have we leared?" (a question actually raised at the end of the Coen´s next movie Burn after reading). Well... probably nothing more than seeing how these characters act under strange circumstances. But then again who says we have to leard anything from a good movie?
Yet I´m with you. No country for old men should not have won the Oscar... There will be blood should have! Now THAT´S a complete masterpiece.
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Gustavo Froes
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 14:31
el böthy wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Gustavo Froes wrote:
It's not the ending that bothers me.The film's pretention towards 'intellectual'(for example,the complete absence of soundtrack)is just ridiculous and annoying Javier Barden is a great actor,but wasn't for some nice dialogs here and there(that last scene isn't one of them) and Tommy Lee Jones,this would be a complete disaster.If the question sounded like 'implication',sorry,it wasn't my intention.
Just please tell me WHAT makes this movie so great.
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Why is not having a soundtrack a pretension of intellectualism? |
What makes to movie so great? Hard to say... personally I think it just gets you so into the feeling of the movie, of what´s happening, the quiet desperation... and Barden scares the sh*t out of me and I can´t stop watching him. But maybe, maybe, what, at least I, like the most about this movie... are these two things: first it´s probably the best hidden comedy of all time, you don´t really laugh at any moment, but it´s just so... not even funny, but comic... so Coen brothers (whom I come to like much more than I used to). Having a practically unstoppable killer like that is with almost cartoon like qualities is just so ridiculous and yet you never question it, it´s just a bit weird but not off puting at all. Making this kind of effect is extremly hard, specially because of it´s subtility. But maybe that´s just me. And secondly... I love how it ends. It just... ends. "And what have we leared?" (a question actually raised at the end of the Coen´s next movie Burn after reading). Well... probably nothing more than seeing how these characters act under strange circumstances. But then again who says we have to leard anything from a good movie?
Yet I´m with you. No country for old men should not have won the Oscar... There will be blood should have! Now THAT´S a complete masterpiece.
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I agree,There Will Be Blood is fantastic.
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 18:23
Gustavo Froes wrote:
el böthy wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Gustavo Froes wrote:
It's not the ending that bothers me.The film's pretention towards 'intellectual'(for example,the complete absence of soundtrack)is just ridiculous and annoying Javier Barden is a great actor,but wasn't for some nice dialogs here and there(that last scene isn't one of them) and Tommy Lee Jones,this would be a complete disaster.If the question sounded like 'implication',sorry,it wasn't my intention.
Just please tell me WHAT makes this movie so great.
|
Why is not having a soundtrack a pretension of intellectualism? |
What makes to movie so great? Hard to say... personally I think it just gets you so into the feeling of the movie, of what´s happening, the quiet desperation... and Barden scares the sh*t out of me and I can´t stop watching him. But maybe, maybe, what, at least I, like the most about this movie... are these two things: first it´s probably the best hidden comedy of all time, you don´t really laugh at any moment, but it´s just so... not even funny, but comic... so Coen brothers (whom I come to like much more than I used to). Having a practically unstoppable killer like that is with almost cartoon like qualities is just so ridiculous and yet you never question it, it´s just a bit weird but not off puting at all. Making this kind of effect is extremly hard, specially because of it´s subtility. But maybe that´s just me. And secondly... I love how it ends. It just... ends. "And what have we leared?" (a question actually raised at the end of the Coen´s next movie Burn after reading). Well... probably nothing more than seeing how these characters act under strange circumstances. But then again who says we have to leard anything from a good movie?
Yet I´m with you. No country for old men should not have won the Oscar... There will be blood should have! Now THAT´S a complete masterpiece.
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I agree,There Will Be Blood is fantastic.
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Unstoppable killer? He gets shot and hit by a car. Daniel Plainview on the other hand killed two men and didn't get so much as a scratch. There Will Be Blood was a great film but it was a 1 character film. The entire movie centered around the brutality of one man as opposed to the fairly balanced story of three very different men No Country presented. If it wasn't for the amazing performance of Daniel Day Lewis (and no, I don't believe any other actor could have made this role work) it wouldn't have had much going for it, outside the good use of landscapes (which both had). I'm still a huge fan of There Will Be Blood too but if Daniel Day Lewis hadn't been cast I don't know how it would have held up. Best scene is the Baptism, by the way.
The lack of music in No Country built tension extremely well and I have no real problem with it. Who has music play them in and out of situations in their everyday lives anyway?
No Country did a better job of sucking me into the story than any other movie I've seen. Other than the fact that I absolutely love the Anton Chigurh character that is the best way to explain why I enjoy the film so much. And I'll defend that ending to my dying day!
by the way, if you are reading this and haven't joined the 1st ever ProgArchives Fantasy Baseball League (link in sig) then I am officially calling out your manhood and insulting yo momma
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 10:41
Ok, back to topic, I finished Watchmen... yes, it is the best comic I´ve ever read, by far. And no, I don´t think it´s unfilmable, I´m eagerly awaiting to watch the movie!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 15:25
el böthy wrote:
Ok, back to topic, I finished Watchmen... yes, it is the best comic I´ve ever read, by far. And no, I don´t think it´s unfilmable, I´m eagerly awaiting to watch the movie! |
hope you don't mind major change
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 20:33
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 20:37
Am I the only one who has no f'ing clue what this movie is or why there is so much hype surrounding it?
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 22:23
manofmystery wrote:
Having read the legendary graphic novel Watchmen by Alan Moore, and having seen the 2nd trailer for the film version, I agree with Moore's assessment that his work is "inherently unfilmable" . Originally I had hopes that it might be ok, considering director Zach Snyder had originally promised a faithful adaptation but the more I hear and see about the upcoming film this hope dims. I mean the 2nd trailer is just ridiculous! So, I ask those of you who have read Watchmen: Is there any chance this film won't be a complete disaster? |
Never knew anything about 'Watchmen' until I went and saw it at the theatre. The movie is full of messages and most people will not understand it. I enjoyed the film for what it was but the esoteric message is what really hit me. Most people will see it for the exoteric meaning maybe, but few will understand the deeper meanings of the film. I don't really want to get into what that messages are except to say that the ends justify the means, but from where I sit it was full of them. We live in stange times indeed.
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Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: March 12 2009 at 05:28
Drew wrote:
Am I the only one who has no f'ing clue what this movie is or why there is so much hype surrounding it?
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Probably not, but the reason there's so much hype is because it's an adaptation of a comic book which has long been hailed as one of the very best (some say THE best) graphic novels of all time. Furthermore, the movie was in "development hell" for many years, and it was often said that the book was simply "unfilmable". The fact that it happened at all is pretty staggering, let alone its largely slavish faithfulness to the comic it's based on. HTH.
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Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: March 12 2009 at 08:57
BaldFriede wrote:
Trouserpress wrote:
Saw it yesterday. My reaction:
"Well, that was certainly a film of Watchmen, there".
Ultimately, it was as good as it probably ever could be given the limits of film as a framework and the huge amount of material needing to be condensed/selected from in order to effectively tell the story. Ultimately, though, did it actually need to happen?
Oh, and Friede, surely you know better than to judge a book by the film it's based on? The film, I grant you, can come across as a mindless action flick at times but to dismiss Moore/Gibbon's visionary work as a mindless action comic by association is simply a huge mistake. The graphic novel is a book about people and ideas; far-reaching in its implications, astonishing in its depth and simply one of the most absorbing books I've ever read.
Have you never wondered what a world with superheros would really be like? What could drive a rational human being to dress up in a silly costume and start apprehending criminals and getting in the way of the police? The kind of flaws and insecurities such a person might have? That (and much more besides) is what drives the book. Mindless it is not. Please give it a go sometime.
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I read up on "Watchmen", but I am still not convinced. This is not because I am generally against comics, by the way; I do love, for example, the "Canardo" series of Benoit Sokal (which I hereby highly recommend). Canardo is a duck ("Canard" is French for "duck") who looks like Columbo and acts like Phillip Marlowe. I may give "Watchmen" a try, though at the moment other readings are on my agenda.
| Canardo is great Baldfriede!You've got as fine tastes as in music but what are your readings at the moment?I love Attilio Micheluzzi,Hugo Pratt,EP Jacobs,Hergé,Stan Lee,Jack Kirby,Hubinon-Charlier and many more but at this moment I'm reading an Avengers one shot(by Neal Adams,John and Sal Buscema).By the way do you also know Didier Tronchet and his fabulous Jean Claude Tergal?
------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world
of searchers with the help from
crimson king
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: March 12 2009 at 10:59
Ok.. I saw it and found it silly. However, my husband and son loved it. So I guess its a man thing. I did love the fact that Rorschach was played by the same guy who was the kid ballplayer in all the Bad News Bears movies. Also watching the lead girl... made it feel more like a Zena episode. I kept waiting for Gabreille to show up. Hilarious.
------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: March 14 2009 at 00:16
I saw it yesterday afternoon and enjoyed it. There were some obvious differences between the novel and the film but it wasn't too harmful. It was a much better adaptation of Alan Moore's work than the V for Vendetta film.
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Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 02:10
Drew wrote:
Am I the only one who has no f'ing clue what this movie is or why there is so much hype surrounding it?
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I knew absolutely nothing about it prior to a couple weeks ago although I have been seeing it hyped for what seems like a year. Even after hearing about it, I only got the most basic idea of what it was about.
Now about the movie. The opening credits was one of the greatest pieces of cinematic majesty in recent memory. The rest of the movie was pretty good despite (or because of) not reading the graphic novel beforehand.
------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal.
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 20:49
I'm sure how to rate the film.In a summary I would say it was a camp sin city lost within a vague plot,but liking the GN it deserves very high praise for capturing the imagery and staying true to the novels artist.Though that was the only thing that stayed true to it, it was like Alan Moore had nothing to do with the original book as the film completely missed the point and atmosphere of the book.For me just making an average action flick with a brief moral undertone.
So yeah dissapointed me but that was really the only option.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Spammer21
Date Posted: March 16 2009 at 22:49
I haven't read the novel but I'd like to now, after seeing the movie. Which is weird because I really didn't like that movie.
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 26 2009 at 05:57
BaldFriede wrote:
After having seen a scene from "Watchmen" I must say I have no intention of reading it. Nor will I watch the movie.
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The you are mssing out on arguably the greatest graphic novel ever Friede,give it a chance.
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