Emerson - Lake - Powell issue
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Forum Name: Report errors & omissions here
Forum Description: Seen a mistake in a band bio etc then please tell us
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53504
Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 05:14
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Topic: Emerson - Lake - Powell issue
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Subject: Emerson - Lake - Powell issue
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 13:15
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Usually, a band keeps its name despite line-up changes. But, what do we do with a band whose name consists of its members' names? Do you think it's fair to list the Emerson, Lake & Powell albums under the band entry for Emerson, Lake & Palmer? Especially when the new band name is clearly written as something different than the album name, like here: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=20066 - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=20066 I think the link above clearly shows this issue should be considered as an error of the discography, and not an exception. |
Replies:
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 15:33
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Cozy must be pissed. Anyway, I think you have a valid point, there. I hadn't thought of that. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: November 21 2008 at 16:37
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This case is easy. Just use ELP. It's next to a no-brainer to figure out what each letter stands for (the personnel are listed on the sleeve/box).
A tougher one is Crosby, Stills, Nash, (Young), given that the majority didn't have Neil's participation, not to mention the additional permutation of Crosby-Nash.
How about Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship/Starship? Or Paul McCartney/Paul McCartney & Wings/Wings?
And a real Pandora's Box is jazz ensembles--groupings of musicians that recorded, but didn't form a "band" beyond that. List it under the leader's name (if that can be ascertained), or alphabetically?
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: November 24 2008 at 02:10
I understand your position but it's not right: the database specifies very clearly "Emerson, Lake & Palmer", not "E.L.P." |
Bitterblogger wrote:Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: November 24 2008 at 12:51
Then the database needs editing and an explanation. Administrators?
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 24 2008 at 13:29
I like to refer to the second version as Jefferson Airsick.  Not that that comment in any way contributes anything useful to this discussion.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: November 24 2008 at 14:38
^lol, your comments never do
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 24 2008 at 15:29
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Usually we keep the bands so related together for musical purpose.
1.- SCHICKE FÜHRS & FRÖHLING http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1640 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1640 is in the same page as FÜHRS & FRÖHLING
2.- Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2503 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2503 is in the same page and bio of Velvet Opera (Ellmer Gantry the owner of the name left)
ELPowell is a one album issue, so the OWNERS (Was added by them) believed there was no reason to make a whole page for this short lived band, and i won't ask them explanations because they don't have wto give any.
They probably beieved the credits of the album are enough.
I believe Three (Emerson, Berry / Palmer) should also be considered as part of ELP, but maybe because of the name it had an own page.
But I want to solve the problem.
If Swan Song or any of the members proposing this change wants to make a 400 words biography of ELPowell (100% ORIGINAL), i personally will open a page with them including this bio, becayuse the team has other issues to worry about.
BTW: A decent photo must be provided.
Problem solved.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 24 2008 at 19:29
Hey, 4 hours and no voluntaries? 
Iván
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 24 2008 at 21:00
Hey I'll give it a shot. Repeat ELP's bio, add a note that Powell had played in Jeff Beck Group, and we're done
 Can probably scan a photo of Powell from that Rough and Ready album cover and with modern Photoshop technology paste it over Palmer's head on any generic ELP photo. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: December 22 2008 at 21:25
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A) Emerson, Lake & Powell have 2 albums (see Space Gospel)
B) A key personel and name change are more than enough to consider it a different group
C) How awful would it really be to create one more page on this massive site to clear up this mess
D-Z) oh yeah, THEY CHANGED THE NAME OF THE BAND! Powell and Palmer are not the same word so this must be a new band name.
This is like including episodes of Archie's Place in the All In The Family episode list people! -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 22 2008 at 23:15
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Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 07:42
Will this make it (not sure if it satisfies the 400 words requirement though...  )? Emerson, Lake & Powell, often abbreviated to ELPowell, were an offshoot of a classic prog band Emerson, Lake & Palmer with Cozy Powell taking over the drumming duites in place of Carl Palmer which released one self-titled album in 1986. After releasing Love Beach in 1978 Emerson, Lake & Palmer became silent for a couple of years until Emerson and Lake met during summer 1985 inspired by Jim Lewis, a vice-president of Polydor Records, and discussed a joint project. Since Carl Palmer was still contracted to Asia and was unable to participate they had to find a substitute and after auditioning several drummers they eventually chose a long time Emerson's friend Cozy Powell. The band have always insisted that it was a coincidence that his surname also happened to start with a P, thus allowing the band to keep its original initials. Emerson Lake & Powell released their debut LP in 1986 and began rehearsing in England for a US tour. The band's sole album was reminiscent of ELP style, with long suites, mellow ballads and a classical theme (Mars, the Bringer of War by Gustav Holst). Studio outtakes, demos and rehearsals that didn't find their place on the official studio album were offered as a mail-order, limited-edition vinyl album, titled Space Gospel, to members of the EMERSON LAKE AND POWELL FAN CLUB. Most ordered copies of this were never delivered though, due to the bankruptcy of the fulfillment house used by ELPowell. The US tour began in El Paso, Texas on August 15 and lasted until October 30th. The tour was difficult and disturbed by a dispute which led to the band firing its management. Shortly after it ended the band disbanded without recording a second album. Some ELPowell studio rehearsals and live recordings were made available as bootlegs in the 1990s. The material was subsequently remastered and officially released on two CDs in 2003, available through the ELP website: The Sprocket Sessions (rehearsal tapes) (2003) and Live in Concert (recorded live in Lakeland, Florida, November 1986) (2003). Discography: Emerson, Lake & Powell (1986), Space Gospel (Demos 1985, limited edition for members of the EMERSON LAKE AND POWELL FAN CLUB), The Sprocket Sessions (rehearsal tapes) (2003), Live in Concert (recorded live in Lakeland, Florida, November 1986) (2003). ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Space Gospel details: I found two cover versions:   Track List : 01. Back On The Road #1 - 4:43 02. Hooligan - 2:54 03. Learning To Fly - 3:34 04. Space Gospel - 3:15 05. Hooligan #2 - 4:23 06. Serious Pursuit #1 - 3:59 07. Back On The Road #2 - 3:45 08. Serious Pursuit #2 - 4:37 09. Back On The Road #3 - 4:50 ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 07:44
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BTW, I'm not sure if we can move albums between artists. And that ELPowell album has got reviews as far as I know.
------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 11:29
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Thanks Tuz, I will add them to the same page as ELP. (The 400 words was only a recommendation to avoid 20 words bios like i seen many )
Not a new page but they will be mentioned.
Ivan
DONE----Please visit http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=94 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=94 the new ELP - ELPowell page. -------------
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Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 11:39
No problem, Ivan.  I updated the bio a little.
------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 11:45
Maybe we should change the entry name to Emerson, Lake & Palmer / Emerson, Lake & Powell or ELP / ELPowell then? ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 11:59
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I don't believe that Tuz.
Emerson Lake & Palmer is the mother band and it's trenscendece is too high not to grant them a whole page.
If the band would not had the members name, like for example Uriah Heep, who still play with one original member, they would have one page and nothing else.
ELPowell is really another incarnation of ELP, affected only because they choosed to use the name of the members.
But at least they are mentiooned with their own space.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 12:10
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But my bio of ELPowell is even longer than that of ELP.
------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 14:08
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wow, a lot has happened since yesterday, sort of
have to believe that had Powell's last name been Smith, or anything that didn't start with a P, giving the band its own seperate page would have been a no brainer ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 15:09
In this case, ELP is a band formed by three men, one is changed, they change this m,ember's name.
If any band in the world had changed a member,. would probably not even be mentioned, as I mentioned URIA HEEP, changed almost 30 members and we won't start a page for each one.
Rush was also a Power Trio and changed drummer, their bio explains this in nine words:
In 1974 John RUTSEY was replaced by Neil PEART
In this case and because names are involved, we added a 400 words extra bio, by courtesy of Tuzhivar, but like or not Emerson Lake and Powel is Emerson Lake and Palmer or ELP with one member changed...It's the same band, with the same composer, the same vocalist and the same sound, only changed a drummer so we won't start a new page.
Maybe it's a no brainer you, but not for us, we want to keep the coherence of the site and inflate the site with some bands that as a fact never existed because it's a change of one man
Iván -------------
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 16:13
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the point your missing is that: This isn't any other band in the world, this is a band that's identity is directly tied in to the members of the band because they chose to use their names. You can't say a new band wasn't formed or "never existed" because the albums listed by Tuzvihar would beg to differ. They weren't released as albums by Emerson, Lake & Palmer because the band that recorded them wasn't Emerson, Lake & Palmer. The reason I originally refound this thread was because I thought it odd that I didn't see Emerson, Lake & Powell under the list of artists that begin with E, wondered how they were left out. Was shocked to see them lumped in with Emerson, Lake & Palmer. Made me wonder what they had to do, switch subgenres, maybe play prog folk, prog metal? ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 16:28
Well that's why they have a bio for themselves unlike other bands in the same situation.
The team considered them the same band with one member changed, but still allowed a new bio, we are not going to go further.
Thanks for the interest
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 16:30
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BTW: Tuz I like you style, could you write a better bio for Emerson lake & Palmer.
Iván -------------
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