Are there rivalries between prog bands?
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Topic: Are there rivalries between prog bands?
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Subject: Are there rivalries between prog bands?
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 12:43
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Yeah, I know about things about that Mothers of Invention album that was a parody of the Beatles or Robert Fripp bashing King Crimson's imitators... but does the world of progressive rock have anything similar to for instance the feud between Metallica and Megadeth? ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Replies:
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 13:47
| There's the famous feud between Mike Patton of Faith No More and Mr Bungle, and Anthony Keidis of RHCP. Patton's on this site. That's as close as I can get ... |
Posted By: Kestrel
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 14:06
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Bungle#Feud_with_Red_Hot_Chili_Peppers Pretty funny. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 15:08
Oh. Not sure if that one really counts, though, because Mr. Bungle is the only band of those two that's progressive... but it's still funny.  ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 15:16
| Yes of course are rivalries between prog bands, but i consider only in a gentle manner. Each one tryies to bring the best to the listner. Anyway in the '70's this rivalry was at it's peak, Gentle Giant, Genesis, Yes, Camel, to name a fiew, were shoulder to shoulder in prog battle. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 15:27
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I don't mean that kind of friendly competition, I mean something at least bordering on feuds.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 15:31
I'm sure a feud would exist between Neal Morse and Gorgoroth and Impaled Nazarene....  ------------- 
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Posted By: Isengard
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 15:51
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Not Prog for the most part, but a funny recent one (35 years late) involves Jack Bruce of Cream stating that Zeppelin are crap and that Page is no Clapton. I consider Clapton more a blues guitarist compared to Page, who has tried and excelled at different forms of music.
Just Jack Bruce trying to be relevant again!
Oh, this is my first post. Glad to be here as this is an awesome site!!!! |
Posted By: mellors
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 16:08
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Another rather vague one, since Andrew Lloyd Webber has a variations album under various artists on here, Roger Waters has that lyric on his Amused to Death album (Its a Miracle) in response to the similarity between the Phantom of the Opera intro and parts of Echoes. We cower in our shelters, with our hands over our ears And in related/crossover terms, there always seems to be Radiohead vs Muse arguments, though I dont believe there are any disagreements between the band members themselves. |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: November 13 2008 at 20:52
| Of course there is: ELP fans vs the rest |
Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 00:06
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Mike Portnoy VS Geoff Tate anyone?
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Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 00:07
| There was a small rivalry between Zappa/ the Mothers and Velvet Underground, because VU's album got released before Freak Out, which Frank wasn't happy with or something like that. I read about it a long time ago. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 00:17
There were rivalries -- Emerson vs. Wakeman for example -- but not to the point of violence as in Nancy Kerrigan vs. Tonya Harding or anything. That would have certainly upped the ante, say Wakeman or Emerson hires some thug to whack the others' fingers 
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 01:37
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Steve Walsh from Kansas can't stand Phil Collins said hes the most arrogant man in the buisness I read also Walsh disliked Freddy Mercury but says the other guys in Queen are OK
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Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 02:19
oh, yeah.. the two bands were supposed to tour together but 'Ryche dropped out the last minute to tour with Iron Maiden and Mike was maaad! ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
JayDee wrote:Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 03:48
| I recall Steve Wilson was very antagonistic towards Dream Theater for some time. However, the hatchet has now been buried (not in Portnoy's head!). |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 04:46
Doesn't surprise me at all... Portnoy and Tate are both known for having huge egos. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Frippertron
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 06:57
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No ------------- The Cheerful Insanity of Prog Rock |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 09:54
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I've read an interview of Chris Cutler, published in 1991, about R.I.O. and the progressive rock movement: he expressed some critics about King Crimson, especially on the subject of improvisation. He also denied the invention of the device known as "frippertronics" by Robert Fripp. I would be curious to read other interviews from R.I.O. musicians talking about other progressive bands or sub-genres. Plus, I'm still trying to understand what Roger Trigaux (Present, Univers Zero) meant when he said: "Art Zoyd is not a band in opposition anymore" (Traverses # 2, if I'm not wrong)... |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 09:59
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Prog musicians are a bunch of peace-loving hippies, they don't appear to get involved with that much in-fighting. David Gilmour was once very dismissive of The Moody Blues 'poets-corner' style, but it was never a feud as such. And even the disagreements within bands like Pink Floyd are more for public amusement than pistols at dawn, as there appears to be one member of the band (ie Nick Mason) who is prepared to broker a tenuous peace between rivals. ------------- What? |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 10:20
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There is certainly rivalry in the Norwegian prog rock scene. Several musicians has tried to kill each other after the botched up Ludo tournament backstage at the Alone In The Field '04 festival. I think the vocalist in WOBBLER threw an elk at Pete Best in ANTI-DEPRESSIVE DELIVERY and almost killed him. They have exchanged insults on a daily basis since that incident. Very nasty. |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 10:21
| ............... just joking. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 10:27
That's a shame. It'd be awesome if that elk-throwing incident not only happened, but got immortalized a la Smoke on the Water. 
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 10:49
| Back to topic: I believe Rick Wakeman was pretty angry at the rest of YES after he walked out of the band during the Topographic Ocean tour. They played the album live and Rick aired his views in a very colourful manner. I believe there was some rivalry after that.......... |
Posted By: Isengard
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 10:53
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What about the current Yes? Is there a budding rivalry between Jon Anderson and Benoit David?
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 11:56
Yeah, I suspect Jon Anderson may go as far as withholding a hug.  ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 04:14
LOL. Like Yes is a stranger to rivalries!
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Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 04:34
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how about deep purple vs led zeppelin or Ritchie blackmore vs the rest of deep purple
or pink floyd vs sex pistols ------------- Nothing can last there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today. |
Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 04:35
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how about dream theater polls vs the rest of us ------------- Nothing can last there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 05:42
I thought he was kicked out for not being a vegetarian. (no joke)  ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 06:07
Eh, there never was such a feud, AFAIK. Yeah, Johnny Rotten wore that shirt of his, but it was a joke, he really liked Pink Floyd. Years later he told Gilmour about it and Gilmour laughed his head off. Zappa and Beefheart had a long-standing feud, didn't they? Chuck Schuldiner of Death had a feud with Patrick Mameli from the Dutch band Pestilence. But it all ended when Schuldiner fell ill and Mameli did his best to raise money for a therapy. One of the guys from Mastodon said Dream Theater sucked. An apology from Brann Dailor (Mastodon's drummer) followed. Then there was the time when one of the Genesis guys stabbed one of the Yes guys to death. One of the folks from ELP burned down a church. Another Yes musician blew his brain out and their drummer made soup out of it and ate it... ... wait, that's not right... And that Patton-Kiedis thing is hysterical. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 06:13
Chuck had a feud with Pestilence period, not just Patrick. At least http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=63923 - that's what Martin van Drunen says . ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 15 2008 at 07:17
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Well, we could say that Schuldiner had a feud with half of the death metal scence, from the bands to the labels and promoters. Yet, it was nothing compared to the Cannibal Corpse / Anal c**t feud (not to mention the bomb-mails sent to Glen Benton by some black metal extremists!) But if talking about progressive rock... I hardly can imagine the rise of gangsta-prog, with musicians shooting other musicians for some reasons (money, drugs, things like that). It seems that the progressive musicians rather accumulate jealousies, issues about royalties or artistical divergences. Nothing to drive you mad at each other and being "at war" for years. |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 06:01
Good point!
 Rivalries/feuds within bands tend to be more productive (either musically or to swell the coffers of the legal brethren). One that stands above others to me: Nick Simper v Jon Lord when the latter dismissed the former... allegedly without telling him of his demise for some weeks while Roger Glover laid down bass parts in the studio! What Mr Blackmore made of it all must remain a matter for conjecture, I guess.
Touring bands on secondary circuits tend to have an affinity in so many ways: lifestyle, music, red eyes, ingesting substances and the camaraderie, for instance, between Hawkwind, Pink Fairies, Man, Nektar, etc is well documented.
Finally a genuine, if slightly obscure feud. If a member of one band goes out with a member of another and they split up, the 'bad vibes' can degenerate into a genuine dislike that spreads across all parties.
Just ask fans of either F***** O******** or S**** during the Seventies!
Don't know the legality of the above line, Admin please delete if required! ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 06:07
Just seen your line about the peace broker in the band.
again.All prog fans have their weaknesses and one of my many is the Manics. When they went thru their 'combat rock' (Holy Bible) phase, Sean the drummer used to wear a light blue UN peace keepers beret on stage. Band in-joke I guess.
Mind you, James wore a Russian naval uniform based on that sported by the crew of the Battleship Potemkin. No, can't even chuck a guess at why. ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 07:11
hahaha, if Wikipedia is to be believed, there is a tale to tell about the barbed look John Cale is giving Kevin Ayers in this pre-gig photo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:June1-1974.jpg">
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_1,_1974 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_1,_1974 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 09:56
ha ha ha, bemused look? I know I probably would have reacted a little stronger than that. I guess rock stars are different than us regular folks. I'll never foget that album though, somehow it made it to our record store in hicksville USA. It was my introduction to a whole new musical world as well as the 'decadence' that went with it. As far as fueds go, I understand that Bill Bruford was a jerk towards the Genesis guys during his tour with them, Bruford being from the more modernized, urban and updated King Crimson, and Genesis still being ... um ... Genesis. He later apologized to all of them. Later Fripp and Bruford exchanged some nastiness via their websites or something like that. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 16:30
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I don't know about feuds between bands, but when it comes to feuds within a band no-one can beat Amon Düül 2. Threats with revolvers and knives were quite common in their heyday."My song gets on the album, or else.." or something like that. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 16:50
Hahaha, I guess that's why they always recorded double albums. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: MrEdifus
Date Posted: November 16 2008 at 22:48
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Prog bands won't have rivalries on the same level as Megadeth-Metallica because, for the most part, the musicians are more mature and music-oriented instead of ego-oriented.
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 07:05
Quite probable. Or recorded two albums at the same time, but under different names, like it happened with "Wolf City" and "Utopia" They broke up during the recording of "Wolf City", and one half set off to record a self-titled album as Utopia. However, they made peace again during the recordings, which resulted in all members playing on bolth albums. Confusing, but typically Amon Düül 2. This is, by the way, the reason that "Deutsch Nepal" appears on both albums, albeit in slightly different versions; both bands liked it so much they wanted to have it on their album. The Utopia album was later re-released under the name Amon Düül 2, but for historical reasons the archive files the album under Utopia, with a cross-reference to Amon Düül 2 though, of course. "Carnival in Babylon" was supposed to be a double album too, by the way, but the record company was against it. The song "Hawknose Harlequin" originally was almost an hour long. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 08:01
I'd not heard that before!
All of a sudden, I am Waters biggest fan. |
Posted By: Q6
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 10:02
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I think imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Everyone has influences that they draw upon for inspiration. It just so happens that musical inspirations more than not come from music. Is this rivalry or healthy competition? And does this cause disagreements or does it cause artists to up their end game? The waters/webber scenario? Is it here say of fact? Fans usually have more rivalry/disagreements than bands. Who is the best guitarist? What is the greatest song...? etc. Hence these forums  ------------- http://www.paulcusick.co.uk - www.paulcusick.co.uk |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 14:52
So that's another way in which they inspired Hawkwind... ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: November 18 2008 at 03:17
Now I've heard this, I'm Waters' second biggest fan after you (after you only 'cos I can't forgive Pros and Cons). Wonder if Gilmour wrote any couplets about Tim Rice? ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: ClassicRocker
Date Posted: November 18 2008 at 17:05
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ELP fans vs. Camel fans ------------- 
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 10:04
But not between the bands themselves? ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Nakatira
Date Posted: December 16 2009 at 23:10
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Tull and Zep. aparantly Plant werent that happy when Anderson talked about his lyrical abilities. ------------- http://daccord-music.com/home.cfm |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: December 17 2009 at 04:08
I don't think there was any antagonism, he was simply asked in an interview what he though of Dream Theater and he replied he had never heard any of their albums, so he couldn't comment.
Now, I do remember a sort of feud between Wilson and Roine Stolt. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: December 17 2009 at 04:50
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I think in the days before Peter Grant sorted out the promoters, Robert Plant complained about being paid like a brick layer and Ian Anderson said that it was fair enough because LZ wrote songs like brick layers and the bands got a little huffy at each other.
Anyway, this topic seems like fertile ground for fanfic, made up tales of Yes going on underwear raids at Genesis' dressing room and so on. Eventually people will start to talk about them as if they're true.
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: December 17 2009 at 04:52
| Ian Anderson used to do that. I remember when Pete Townsend was working on Lifehouse and getting a bit over-involved, he said something about generating a magical sound that would make the audience spirituall bond and physically disappear and Anderson said Townsend was already quite capable of producing sounds that made audiences disappear. I think he was just being a wit rather than actually insulting people. If you've been to a Tull show, you'll know he fancies himself as a comedian between songs. |
Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: December 17 2009 at 07:58
Apparently: Wolfgang Flur (ex Kraftwerk drummer), had some issues with the founding members in the late 80s, Kraftwerk founders Florian Schneider and Ralf Hutter even said the comments in (Flur's) book I WAS A ROBOT as rubbish and lies. According to the NME, Hutter even called Wolfgang Flur and KarlBartos idiots.  Flur and Bartos are quite open about their time in Kraftwerk. ------------- CYMRU AM BYTH 
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: December 17 2009 at 20:07
There was a very good interview posting here in another thread when Wakeman express his feelings towards the other members of Yes, specially when he said that the curry eaten on stage is the best part off the concert  -------------  |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: December 17 2009 at 20:11
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Also there's a current fight between Andy Powell and the rest of the cofounders of Wishbone Ash.
Deep Purple in the Plumpton concert of 69, set the stage on fire so they can blown off stage the next Group, and that would be Yes. ------------- |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 17 2009 at 22:23
I've read many times about Roger's dislike of Webber, and it's not only because of the similarity of Phantom and Echoes; Waters just hates Webber's work, and ofcourse, this similarity at the beginning of Phantom of the Opera just made it worst; by the way, Roger has also complained about Bruce Willis movies being rather bad. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 17 2009 at 22:29
| And, ofcourse, there's been lots of feuds between band members of different groups when they separate. Roger Waters vs David Gilmour and Richard Wright (and even Nick Mason); as far as I know they really hated each other. As far as I know, Steve Howe is very critical of other guitar players, specially if they have been involved with Yes: I've heard accounts of his disliking Peter Banks, and with more "reason" Trevor Rabin (I don't know, I guess there should have been a kind of Feud between Yes "West Lineup" and Asia); and certainly Howe really hates Jimi Haun (he's the one who really plays the guitars on the ABWH songs from Union, even though he's not credited at all; not even mentioned on the album notes). There must be more rivalry issues between Howe and other Prog guitar players, anyone knows any? |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 18 2009 at 07:01
And then what? Jon came onstage and doused the flames with a rain of celestial love?
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: rosenbach
Date Posted: December 18 2009 at 17:13
Seconded! Here's something from Van der Graaf Generator’s The Box: VDGG ‘s manager Tony Stratton Smith founded Charisma Records in 1969 to record “The least We can do ..” due to the lack of interest from other labels. During the recording of H to He Who Am The Only One, bassist Nic Potter left the band half way through the sessions, so Potter was on three tracks and Banton played bass on the rest, with guest appearance from KC’s Robert Fripp: “We met him at the Speakeasy, he just dropped in one day because he liked what we were doing” Peter Hammill In 1971 Stratton had the idea to send out three of his most promising acts on a package tour, it was known as the “Six Bob Tour” and comprised Genesis who opened the show, followed by Lindisfarne and the closing band was VDGG. During the first of these shows Nic Potter was in the audience to watch his old band mates, Banton’s bass pedals crashed, so Nic found himself on stage having borrowed Mike Rutherford’s rickenbacker bass. “The bands were always checking each other out, we always trying to blow each other off, a friendly rivalry, of course ….” Peter Hammill “People outside the industry often assume that bands mix a lot and are aware of each other’s music. This was certainly not the case for us especially back in that period. Band members tend to be very wrapped up in their own careers, and more likely to see the other groups as rivals. However on this tour because we were all travelling together, it gave us the opportunity to see another group’s set from night to night and to get to know the music. I think we all learned from each other, you could see what made one night’s performance so much more effective than another one” Tony Banks |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: December 19 2009 at 04:37
I hadn't heard of any feud between SW and DT before. He took part on their Systematic Chaos album, PT toured with DT, and Jordan Rudess and Steven Wilson have showed up on each others solo albums, so I doubt there's any feud there. Now Stolt vs Wilson, haven't heard that one before. Care to elaborate? ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: December 19 2009 at 07:04
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Yes, between one of my bands and the other of my bands.
They're battling in my head. "War Inside My Head" if you will.
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Posted By: Citizen Erased
Date Posted: December 19 2009 at 13:24
Not really antagonistic. Wilson's good friends with Dream Theater despite them knowing he's not really a fan of their music as a band. His apology on the DT track "Repentance" is about the fact that he doesn't like their music. ------------- And lo, the mighty riffage was played and it was good 
<a href="www.last.fm/user/jonzo67" targe |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: December 19 2009 at 18:18
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^Really? I hadn't heard about that! ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: The Block
Date Posted: December 19 2009 at 20:43
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