The Classical Appreciation Thread
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Topic: The Classical Appreciation Thread
Posted By: The Pessimist
Subject: The Classical Appreciation Thread
Date Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:41
I am a big fan of classical music, it goes without saying. I almost live my life by it. But I'm intrigued: how many of you prog fans out there enjoy it? I know for a fact there are some, but i'd like to see how many there are exactly. So I've generated this thread to celebrate its beauty and the genius behind most of it. It would also be brilliant if you could tell us who your favourite songs and composers are as well  Mine are Brahms and J.S.Bach. I have many favourite songs, but of my very favourites are: Rhapsodie in B minor - Brahms Ballade in D - Brahms 1st Movement from Symphony No. 4 in E minor - Brahms Allemande from the 4th French Suite - Bach Mass in B minor - Bach ALL of Matthew's Passion - Bach Finlandia Suite - Sibelius Jupiter, Bringer of Jollity - Gustav Holst The Firebird - Stravinsky Moonlight Sonata, 3rd Movement - Beethoven There are lots to chose from, but those stick out. Please join in all classical music fans, and celebrate the wonderful style of music which has been almost lost in this day and age  ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Replies:
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:47
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^^this has the ring of Deja Vu about it...didn't you start a very similar thread a while ago?
I remember listing 10 of my faves...  ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 01 2008 at 17:41
 Yes, i did do a similar one. However, that one wasn't an appreciation thread. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 02:27
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My appreciation of "Classical" music started not too long ago. It was when I started to really study music that I began to truly appreciate the fine points of the genre. Before that time all I really enjoyed of it was the main motif of Beethoven's 5th, and the beginning of Bach's famous Toccata and Fugue. I started trying to get familiar with the entire 5th and 9th symphony by Beethoven, various Mozart works, some Bach, and eventually Paganini's great caprices. Beethoven was easy to get into. Mozart still doesn't do it for me, I was turned off Bach at first but after playing some of his pieces and arranging the second part of the cello suite I have seen the light. Paganini is still impressive, but not someone I regularly listen to. Then I was introduced to the modern composers, Webrn, Berg, Schoenberg, Glass, Cage, Reich, Stravinski, Ives, Bernstein, etc. I hit it off right away with them because I was an oddball teenager and knew classical music as pretty straight forward music by old dudes. Needless to say, Schoenberg blew me away, as did Reich, Stravinski and especially Glass. I've written two songs in respect to Schoenberg's influence on my mind and ears, and have written three big papers on Glass and minimalism. Stravinski is a big favorite of mine whether its the firebird suite, petroushka, Rites of Spring, or my more recent favorite the Pulcinella suite. Then I went off to study classical guitar at my conservatory which exposed me to even more great music. Brouwer, Villa Lobos, Tarrega, Sor, Ponce, Giulliani, Mussourgsky, Shostakovich (became more familiar with than before), Prokofiev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Barber, Copland, Janecek, Dvorak (another favorite of mine!), and especially Debussy, Satie, Ravel, Milhaud, Strauss and Mahler. OH! and Brahms and more Bartok! Hearing several of the works by these great composers, and studying them for different classes I fell deeper into the greatness of the music. I started going out and looking for new composers on my own. I branched out into Saint-Saens who's Organ Symphony is awesome, Ralph Vaughn-Williams whose various impressionistic works continually amaze me, and I also decided to revisit some of those other composers lesser known works. Nowadays I don't listen to it as much as I used to, except when I am playing/practicing guitar, but I do still love it and can't wait to bring out one of those fantastic works and blast it on the stereo. YEEEE HAWWW!
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 02:46
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I grew to love the 20th Century greats; Honegger, Schoenberg, Barber, Ives, Bartok |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 03:29
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well, I like loads of stuff...just too much to mention in a single post, so I'll just list 10 of my traditional faves:
Sibelius: King Christian II Suite
Liszt: Les Preludes
Dvorak: Slavonic Dances
Tchaikovsky: Romeo & Juliet Suite
Smetana: Die Moldau
Rimsky Korsakov: Easter Festival Overture
Mendelssohn: Fingal's Cave & Scottish Symp
Rossini & Verdi: too many overtures to name...
Vaughan Williams: Fantasia On A Theme By Thomas Tallis
Beethoven & Brahms: Entire Symphonic Rounds
Bruckner: Symph 7
Handel: Water Music Suite & Music For Royal Fireworks...
that doesn't even scratch the surface, 'cos I love early music too...
 ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 04:22
Do go on, please. |
fandango wrote:Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 04:50
Quite interesting where the Debussy-addicted in me and the Haendel-admirer in you cross paths.  Well, to be fair, I'm a Bruckner/Mahler junkie, but the 7th Symphony, maybe in a close call with the 5th, is one of my favorites (meanwhile, the Scherzo in the 8th is also among my favorite moments). I don't know what precisely you like about this symphony here (that is, if not the whole thing!), but for me it's the 2nd part, so epic, slow and with an emotional core theme...it's wonderful to hear, plus the climax (mark 20 minutes or so) is phenomenal. ~~ Oh, so a "Classical Appreciation Thread"...seems like I must express some thoughts in here... ------------- 
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 05:27
Oooooh don't get me started...
 I have a fave 15th Century music CD: Ockeghem: Requiem & Desprez: Missa...just beautiful...
 but other bits which make the hairs stand up on the back of neck are:
Monteverdi: Vespro Della Beata Vergine (1610) [this is a VERY good place to start for anyone wishing to hear some early music, with sackbutts & timbrels...as its so accessible...
 ) Slightly less accessible, but still worth hearing, are the 1643 Ventian Vespers, composed by Monteverdi and his understudies, and reconstructed by Paul McCreesh...they are unique.Heinichen: Concerti Grandi (if you want something Handelesque, and really light, bouncy and optimistic...
)Vivaldi: Pick any of his concerti for woodwind, strings, violins or Oboe...but the one he did for 2 mandolins in G major is marvellous...
Handel: Concerto Grosso 'Alexander's Feast'...among just about every other Concerti the man wrote...you can't go wrong with a bit of Handel...
Hummel: especially his Masses and Choral Works...sublime...
 that's enough for the moment....
Mozart...well, take your pick, but his Requiem remains my favourite, although lots of his symphonies get an airing on my player, especially the great ones...38-41 ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 05:30
Hi Riccy,
I've not heard 5 yet, but have just invested in a complete set of Bruckner symphonies, which will get an airing this autumn/ winter. I have a copy of 7 which I play in reception at qwork, as I have always enjoyed it...and the 2nd movement is also my favourite.... I find him to be the more accessible end of Mahler, whom I admit to struggling with, tbh...
although I do listen to Mahler 1 from time to time... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 06:10
It's understandable. Mahler revolutionized the whole "symphonism", while Bruckner's music is, practically, neo-classical. Even as characters, Mahler was a titan, whilst Bruckner was modest, hardly considering him as worthy as giants of those days such as Brahms or Wagner. Mahler's music clicked to people a lot faster than Bruckner's, who was practically rediscovered and revalued after the 1st half of the XXth Century. In Mahler's music, I couldn't even begin to tell what I love. His 2nd and 8th are full masterpieces (though "masterpiece" sounds totally like a human term in this case...), but I'm into a lot more from his symphonies (including the impossible 6th and 7th!). -------------
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 06:20
About Hummel, I mostly think of the Trumpet music, because my best friend used to play trumpet and studied Hummel..."intencely" (now he left me alone in the dark woods of college, dumping music and going to another university  ). One thing I laugh about with him is how he asked me - once - to write his diploma essay, in the XIIth grade, taking Hummel's music in account as a possible theme. Naturally, despite having written 60% of that boy's essays in my life, I didn't agree to do this one as well... -------------
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 06:53
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^^the lovely Alison Balsom has just released a CD containing Hummel and Haydn's trumpet concertos on...I am thinking of investing in it, purely for the cover....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/B001B1R1EU/sr=1-1/qid=1225626810/ref=dp_image_0/026-3792427-2850020?ie=UTF8&n=229816&s=music&qid=1225626810&sr=1-1">  ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Nizz
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 07:22
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I'm way out of my depth here but three I play regularly are Messaien's Turingalila and Firebird and Rite by the boy Strav.
Liked all the Schoenberg and Debussy I've heard too. ------------- Wot Gorilla? |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 07:27
I also remember Tine Thing Helseth, taking 2nd prize at the Eurovision Young Musicians contest, two years ago. She played 3rd part of Haydn's Trumpet Concert in E flat. She was so amazing, all my trumpet friends from school, the next day, thought about quiting their instrument. (Talk about "emasculation"! ). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tine_Thing_Helseth - -------------
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 07:30
that's just too sad and funny, in equal measures, Riccy...  ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 07:39
Well, no wonder I work with equal doses, since I'm a Libra... On-topic, the birth of this thread (even if another such thread out of others ) is for me just the right impulse to schedule a listen of Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concert, with Arcadi Volodos, Berlin Phily & James Levine as conductor. It simply stirs me up.  -------------
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 07:45
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^^on Friday, I played around with my Vaughan William's Symphonies again...No 5, and his Mass in G minor... you know, we really ought to get Man Erg involved in this thread...his knowledge is exponential... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: MusicForSpeedin
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 13:47
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I like a lot of 20th century music that is what I have been listening to a lot latley Ussachevsky Stockhausen Leuning Babbitt Cage Lucier Crumb also Glass Reich Riley AWESOME |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:39
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Stockhausen was a genius in every right. But John Cage... he was plainly just a nutter. A 639-year-long song? Come on man, even prog hasn't pushed the boundry to years. Yet.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 14:54
Yes, quite interesting to book a place for the next time the next note will be played, three years in advance, with prices costing from 1000 to 4000 Euros. And then, at the right time, you make a big event out of it, listen to that note, express your thoughts about how it sounded, and go back home. I myself would rather do the 4'33'' stunt, see how my audience would react. -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 15:20
Probably stare in bewilderment. The Belgians would love it though I don't appreciate your signature by the way  I would care greatly. Besides, Opeth cannot be killed ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 15:34
Oh, reading more carefully, I have to close and open the lid of the piano, in order to mark the start and ending of movements.. Now that's gonna cost double the honorary.  Apparently, Opeth can be killed. Just have a look at "Pa Prog Bands Elimination Game" in Just For Fun. I did kill both bands mentioned in my signature. -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 16:00
Impossible. They must've faked their deaths and hid somewhere else Perhaps to create even more of an effect you could place your hands on the piano in preparation to play something, but instead hold them there for a good 4.33, then finish by taking them off the piano, closing the lid and bowing. Now THAT is true minimalism ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 16:10
33 seconds of concentration before starting to play something is always recommended*, it's the 4 minutes that are more difficult. The idea is good, but if I'd make any sound by placing my hands on the piano, it would already be something contrary to what Cage "wrote" (or specified). * and this reminds me of Richter having allegedly counted to 30 before starting to play Liszt's Piano Sonata, or else he would have made a mess out of it. -------------
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 16:19
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Ah, classical music. Always a refreshing dive when I listen to it. I'm ashamed to say that I don't listen to it enough.
My main knowledge of classical music comes from what I learn on the piano. At the moment, I am working on learning Gershwin's "Prelude III", Manuel de Falla's "Ritual Fire Dance", and Shostakovich's "Polka" from the Golden Age, all of which are more or less classical. I've loved working on the Bach Preludes and inventions, and of course there's always a few standards that most people know on the piano like "Fur Elise" which I don't listen to anymore but occasionally play for the fun of it.
I have been revitalized in listening to classical type music by joining my local symphony orchestra at a community college. There, I play percussion, and I go with two buddies from my high school who play bass and viola. Some of the pieces that I remember most distinctly playing are the "New World Symphony" by Dvorak, "Hoedown" by Aaron Copland, "Rhapsody in Blue" by George Gershwin, and "Jupiter" from the Planets Suite by Holst. Of course, at every concert we perform much more than just a couple of those, but these are the more distinct ones. And whenever I enjoy a particular piece there's usually an occasion where I go home and listen to it online when I can, and it is always enjoyable. I don't really know how many times I've listened to "Rhapsody in Blue" now, and after only knowing about it for 2 or 3 months, I have to say I'm a fan of Gershwin's work (Of course, maybe he's not classical, but I know very little about orchestral and symphonic music classification, so go easy on me if it's the wrong thread).
I hope to build a very good collection of essential classical recordings, but at this point in my life my collection is up to 0 classical CDs or vinyl recordings. I'll have to get more. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 16:28
Well, Liszt isn't exactly easy, but 30 seconds??? My god, i bet the audience thought he'd forgotten it or something. Speaking of which, do you reckon that's what they thought about 4.33? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 17:32
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About Cage and his 4'33'' minutes of silence.... Could people know something else from him??? "Imaginary Landscape" as an example (one of the first piece of electronic music)? Or the many sonates for prepared piano? After all, "4'33'' is not about silence, it's about the reaction of the audience. Back to the topic: Purcell, anyone? |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 19:44
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Ooooo yes I love my hardcore Baroque me ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 01:51
I know a bit of Cage's music (especially since we've been asked to include him in prog electronic ). I just went with the 4'33'' based on the original context (which you can read above or, if not, the previous page...)-------------
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 11:59
^^^Riccy, you'll be pleased to know that on my way to the Pendies gig yesterday, I visited my favourite classical record shop (well, it wasn't *quite* on the way...) and I happened upon a 3CD set of Beethoven's 10 violin sonatas, recorded on the late 50's and on the Decca label:
 and in 2nd hand, MINT condition.....  ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 12:29
Oh my, that's actually fantastic. I'm not the biggest fan of Beethoven (not German enough for me ), but i've heard so many good excerpts from his violin sonatas.------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 12:34
^^not German enough??? how could his 9th Symphony be any more German??...
anyway, I think his music is great, and I love his VS, esp 9 & 10... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 12:59
His 9th is an exception, i'll admit But potentially, he could have been way more German, being from Germany and all...------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 14:04
Very nice purchase, Fanny!! 
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 14:07
^^I also got a CD of Liszt's tone poems, to play in reception at work. and Schubert's Symphonies Nos 3&4... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 14:29
Umm, no. It's his composition that is played there, but the idea to stretch it out that much was not his. He did not even live to approve or disapprove of this move. The original composition was intended to be about 20 minutes long, I think. BTW, his Variations II performed by David Tudor is absolutely incredible. So are the Freeman Etudes. |
Posted By: progrules
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 08:43
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About half a year ago there was a classical thread in which I recommended Holberg Suite by Grieg. I did this because it's a relatively unknown and severely underrated classical work.
Grieg is one of the very greatest in my opinion anyway, Peer Gynt and his Piano Concerto in A say it all, I think.
Other great favourites of mine are Beethoven (5th piano concerto, Fantasy opus 80, Egmont Overture), Tsjaikovsky (Piano concerto, Nutcracker suite, Violin Concerto), Chopin (2 Piano concertos), Schubert (Unfinished Symphony), Smetana (Die Moldau) Vivaldi (Four Seasons), Bruch (Violin concerto), Saint Saens (Introduction et Rondo Capriccioso , Havanaise) Mendelssohn (Violin Concerto) and many more great works.
So conclusion is: I love classical music but most of the time way behind progressive music. ------------- A day without prog is a wasted day |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 14:14
 Chopin Piano Concertos------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: rushaholic
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 14:18
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Cool thread. I saw some posts earlier about Beethoven. I am actually a huge fan and have several copies of all nine of his symphonies. Among my favorites is the ninth. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 14:18
you're a man of good taste, Henk...I have emboldened a number of the pieces you have mentioned, which I especially enjoy...
 I also have some great Norwegian Dances by Grieg, which I play at work and love... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 15:10
!!-------------
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 15:16
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^^I somehow think we are missing an opportunity here, Vic...
can't we use this space for you to enlighten us ignoramuses, through a series of stimulating lectures, on the development of Early Church, Baroque, Classical, Romantic and 20th Century Classical music?...
 so, may I suggest you now go away and prepare tomorrow night's introductory thesis on '72 years in a Convent' the life of Hildegard of Bingen?.... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 15:47
When do we get to cover Josquin des Prez ?------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 15:52
Patience, my friend...Riccy hasn't issued us with the syllabus yet....
------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 16:02
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That's interesting, I don't remember writing Josquin Des Prez's name like that in 9th grade... About the lectures, I've been having indeed a pretty intense second half of the year, writing a diploma paper (12th grade finish) about Program Music (in the Romantic musical period), not to mention the essays I have to do right now, one of them being something about Chinese Ancient Music...  but, right here, I'd prefer more casual talk about music, because you guys are far from "ignorasmuses" (lol) and I like the conversations this way... in order to write something decent, I'd need three nights without sleep (one to document, one to write on paper, and the third to "transpose" everything on Word )...true, I'll try more words next time. -------------
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Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 17:11
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I was struck in a recent post about how Beethoven wasn't, for the particular member, "German" enough, except allowance was made for the 9th symphony. What would constitute sufficient "Germanness", I wonder, besides actually being German?! Would someone then propose Weber? Mendelssohn? Brahms? Bruch? Schumann? Wagner? Hindemith? Someone else? as examples? |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 17:15
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(The tally so far: Dead guys Brahms, Bach, Sibelius, Holst , Stravinsky , Beethoven, Mozart , Paganini, Webern , Berg, Schoenberg, Ives, Bernstein, Villa Lobos, Tarrega, Sor, Ponce, Giulliani, Mussourgsky, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Barber, Copland, Janecek, Dvorak, Debussy, Satie, Ravel, Milhaud, Strauss, Mahler, Bartok, Honegger, Barber, Liszt, Smetana, Tchaikovsky, Mendelsshon, Verdi, Rossini, Vaughn Williams, Bruckner, Handel, Ockeghem, Desprez, Monteverdi, Vivaldi, Hummel, Haydn, Messaien, Rachmaninoff', Ussachevsky, Stockhausen, Leuning, Cage, Gershwin, Manuel de Falla, Geig, Chopin, Schubert, Saint-Saens, Bruch,
Final Score: 63 Dead -- 7 living but pretty damn old. In case anyone wonders classical music does, in fact, continue to be written everyday all over the world. This preoccupation with the dead is frustrating to those of us who are alive and working in the field. Not that the music listed here by various members isn't good music, it's just that there won't be any more from those guys. To see what is going on NOW check out Peter Boyer, Michael Daugherty, Richard Danielpour, Michael Torke, Aaron Jay Kernis, Mark Phillips, Dan McCarthy, John Adams, Libby Larsen, William Bolcom, Gavin Bryars, Kenneth Fuchs, Christopher Rouse, Toru Takemitsu, Miguel del Aguila, Derek Bermel, Anthony DeRitis, Jim Bonney, Frank Tichelli, Donal Fox, Piers Hellawell. These are just a few names
off the top of my head.
There are, of course, a great, great many more composers who are still “among
the living”, myself included http://www.myspace.com/tomryanhirst - http://www.myspace.com/tomryanhirst . We're Proggers for goodness sake. If we like something (Classical Music for an example) we are usually willing to spend the time looking for more/new stuff to like as well. Just pretend you're trying to find more music like Opeth or Porcupine tree ( Let’s even the balance sheet here. |
for me...). Put in the same effort and see what you turn up.Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 17:15
I know, I know...for the peace of this fledgeling thread, we let the comment go (relatively) unchallenged...
...besides, he was Austrian... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 17:21
that's OK...if you like 20th Century (or even 21st century) classical music. Personally, with very few exceptions (Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, some Greig, Elgar) I'm afraid I don't, very much.
As I've said many times before, I'd generally prefer to listen to some Handel...but that's just me... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 17:23
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Beethoven was not Austrian. He was born and raised in Bonn, Germany. He did not move to Vienna (Austria) until he was about 21 years old. "Germanness" in music usually implies a very heavy reliance on counterpoint (think Bach Preludes and Fugues) which did not come heaviy into Beethoven's work until after he was completely deaf (around 1815, so this would include that last few piano sonatas, the late string quartets and the 9th symphony, and is usually referred to as "Late Beethoven" as he died in 1827). After 1815 his works were much more noticeably "German" than before when the Austrian/Italian influence of Mozart and Haydn were stronger. From your list the most German would probably be Hindemith. Wagner from his writing and subject matter, is a strong contender, but on musical grounds alone I'd go with Hindemith.
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 17:27
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Personally, with very few exceptions (Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, some Greig, Elgar)
Then you really should check out Peter Boyer and Kenneth Fuchs. They are both right up that same street. The list I have given is not at all limited to the avant garde side of 20th century music. Stylistically it is all over the map, as I was simply pulling names out of my head (some are guys I know, have attended conferences with, have studied with etc.) with little regard to style.
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Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 17:30
Symphony No. 3 was a mindblower. . .
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 17:34
thankyou...that's interesting to know; I might do that...
 I think you'd enjoy talking to Lee (Man Erg) if you see him around this forum; his knowledge on classical music is very good; you'll almost certainly get some sense out of him... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 18:22
Somebody PM him Glad to see so many classical fans here, and i could safely say that there are more to come Keep parcipitating everyone!Admittedly, my classical knowledge isn't great (I'd be the first to say that), but I'm learning more and more about it every day. I'm expecially intrigued by the today composers that Trademark mentioned.You've probably noticed that i'm a huge fan of Brahms and Bach, but I love Schumann as well. In other words, BIG music. Who would you suggest I check out first? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 18:42
you and me both, bud...
that's why this little thread could be great for us... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 18:55
I love Faure's Requiem, as I recall it's fairly "big".. the Russians as well |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 18:57
I went to hear it Live a few months ago...wonderful piece... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 18:59
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^ me too, last year! |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 19:59
Welcome to the thread Atavachron I definitely must check that out sometime! Any appreciation Brahms's Hungarian Dances? I especially love the 3rd and the 11th, and i've just recorded myself playing the two-handed version of the 1st on the piano. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 20:53
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I like Brahms very much, his two piano concertos particularly |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 10:58
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"i'm a huge fan of Brahms and Bach, but I love Schumann as well. In other words, BIG music. Who would you suggest I check out first?" Sticking to the list for the time being, I'd go with Peter Boyer (Big and Very Romantic). His music is an easy transition out of the 19th century style and into modern tonal music. That should satisfy your Brahms / Schuman side. http://www.amazon.com/The-Music-of-Peter-Boyer/dp/B000T5MWDY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1225898929&sr=1-1 - http://www.amazon.com/The-Music-of-Peter-Boyer/dp/B000T5MWDY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1225898929&sr=1-1 For your Bach needs I'd suggest Aaron Jay Kernis. Kernis himself is a major Bach devotee and his works are incredibly dense exercises in modern counterpoint without heading into atonal or serial territory, and still are very Big in a sort of late Beethoven sense (think "late string quartets"). http://www.amazon.com/Aaron-Jay-Kernis-Symphony-Celestis/dp/B000BNMDLU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1225899026&sr=1-2 - http://www.amazon.com/Aaron-Jay-Kernis-Symphony-Celestis/dp/B000BNMDLU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1225899026&sr=1-2 This brings up a kind of weird thing that happens when we discuss Orchestral music and Kernis is a great example of it. In the paragraph above I've compared his work to both Bach and Beethoven. This could lead one to assume that there would be strong similarities in the sound. The old "If you like Yes or Genesis you'll like The Flower Kings" type of comparison we are used to in Prog just doesn't work as well when we're crossing nearly 200 years of music history (rather than 30 in the example here). Kernis uses counterpoint in a dramatic and sometimes almost extreme way, but also in a way that sounds nothing like J.S. Bach. He uses structures (form) and texture in very similar ways to Beethoven but again, this music will never be mistaken for a lost Beethoven symphony. Both composers have quite a different concept of melody. It is a more modern style, and to my ears, quite distinctly North American in character. Boyer takes the large scale approach of Brahms and combines it with melodies that might be more associated with Aaron Copland (but without the direct use of folk songs) and uses all the resources of the orchestra to showcase those tunes like Brahms, Schuman or Mahler would have done. Kernis, like Bach or Beethoven, is more interested in "development" of his material. He uses shorter melodic fragments and works and re-works them in a sometimes bewildering number of different ways. His music is heavily, (often intensely) syncopated and very challenging to play (or conduct, just try beating time along with the recording!) Comparing one composer to another in this way can feel misleading to listeners more accustomed to noting the similarities between say, Porcupine Tree and Pineapple Thief, RPWL and Pink Floyd,or Dream Theater and Symphony X etc.. The comparisons you read about in Classical music (classical style not classical era) are more in structure and concept rather than style and sound. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 11:24
Moi aussi, I'm currently studying the first (which is both difficult and sublime) - and doing that, it has really grown on me - plus I love the finale from the 2nd concert. -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 17:24
The D minor concerto is exceptionally good. I haven't heard t'other one though unfortunately... ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: November 06 2008 at 13:13
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Just caught this thread and you can count me in as a classical music listener. Though to be pedantic 'Classical' generally refers to music written between 1730 and 1820. Sandwiched between Baroque and Romantic periods.
My favourites are CPE, JC and JS Bach, Vivaldi, Boccherini, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky and Dvojak to name but a few. I also like brass band music (Black Dyke Band in particular) and a fair chunk of military music especially with the strains of bagpipes.
The only drawback I find is that there is not enough time in a day to listen to music.
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 06 2008 at 18:30
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq-tpKL5lpQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq-tpKL5lpQ What do you guys think? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 06 2008 at 21:22
| Haven't really been through all this thread, but I've always been partial to string quartets: Beethoven, Debussy, Ravel. Seems to me this is about as close to a rock band as you can get, obviously not power-wise, but in terms of instrumentation, just lacking the drums. For classical to me less is more. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 07 2008 at 10:41
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The whole Classical Era vs. Classical Music issue gets a bit over done at times. Yes, the basic genre of classical music is poorly named and in that way it has a lot in common with Prog. There are pages and pages of threads about the difference between progressive approach and progressive style (i.e Prog vs. prog). Classical music as a business entity (a genre with specific charts in Billboard as one example and of course there are others) is pretty well established. It includes music for Orchestra, Chamber music played on orchestral instruments, music for keyboard instruments, choral music, opera, & art song. In the present day the term also covers some hybrid forms such as electro-acoustic music. But you already knew that.... The term classical music was not in use during the classical era, much like like the term progressive rock was not in use in the early/mid 70's when the genre was at its peak (commercially). The term classical music came into being in the late 19th century and contrary to the absolutely horrible Wikipedia entry was NOT an attempt to canonize a certain body of music (Wiki lists Bach to Beethoven as the group but Bach was not even a classical era composer). The term was a convenient reference for journalists to the dominant position of Beethoven, Mozart, and Haydn (all composers of the Classical Era) on the concert programs of the day, but rapidly extended to any orchestral music given in concert and shortly thereafter to all the other genres listed above. There have been a number of attempts to "re-name" the genre in the past 40 years or so and classical music is now also sometimes referred to as "art-music" or "serious music". I believe you even referred to it in another thread recently as "tuxedo music", a name I wholeheartedly approve of in spite of having spent 25 years in the field without ever having worn a tux. Like Prog, classical music is a large and inclusive "umbrella" genre that includes a large number of sub-genres with a lot of parallels to prog. If we apply the nomenclature of this site to classical music we might see: Proto-Classical / Proto Prog: The Renaissance & Baroque Eras. The genre was just solidifying its main concept such as the major /minor key system, standard notation, and some of the basic forms (fugue, sonata, concerto). Instrumental technology was making new sounds and techniques (the improved violin and the early pianos circa 1710) possible and composers were testing them out, but it wasn't really "classical" yet. Classical & Romantic Eras/ Symphonic Prog The instrumental forces The orchestra, piano and major chamber ensembles) are set in place and a group of composers (Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven) make their mark using these basic groups in such remarkably creative ways that they leave their stamp on the genre forever. All composers from this time onward will labor in the shadow of these giants. Eventually the genre gets too big and bloated (Wagner, Bruckner, Mahler) and collapses under the weight of its overly ambitious concept works. This fragments the genre into a number of smaller sub-genres. 20th /21st Century: All the main sub-genres of classical music in the 20th century (what I call "The Age of Isms" in my classes) are represented in the prog world. Primitivism, Neo-Classicism, Minimalism, and the loose group of sub-genres known collectively as Modernist (which includes serialism, experimental, and aleatoric styles) a can be represented by Heavy Prog, Neo-Prog, Electronica, and Avant-Prog and many bands from these genres list composers from the corresponding ones as influences. In a thread like this one I'd advise not getting hung up on the Classical vs. classical issue. It is a very small detail in a very big picture. Russel, I know you were not specifically referencing the Wiki article. But I can easily imagine that folks will check it out to see what it might say on the issue and it is just SOOOO badly done. The article has so many factual errors and errors of inference and logic that I wouldnn't even know where to begin to correct it. Entries like this are the bedrock reason that Wikipedia is a joke in any academic community and why it is a dis-service rather than a service to people in general. A Wiki entry can only be trusted if you already know the information. The Wiki "definition" of this term is disputed by The Grove Encyclopedia of Music, The Harvard Dictionary of Music, The Oxford Music Dictionary, and Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Music and Musicians just to name just a few reliable sources and, if you read the first four paragraphs of the Wiki entry, it even contradicts itself! Just say no to Wiki.
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 07 2008 at 10:48
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Kibbie Alex:. My daughter played that piece last February as part of her audition to University as a piano pedagogy major. I'm pretty sure she didn't make that cool sound at the end though. |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:45
Thanks man It is a very tough piece to pull off! By the way, just call me Alex ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 08 2008 at 11:22
I'm proud to announce that I've composed something called Music For Invisible Pianoforte. I've already found the perfect musician to play it - no it's not Lang Lang, on the contrary, it's: -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 09 2008 at 09:30
Nice. Is it a suite? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 09 2008 at 10:42
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Suites are so (17)50s, it's just a long piece. -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 09 2008 at 12:40
Long pieces are so 40s! Op.0 i take it? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: November 09 2008 at 12:45
| Long pieces are "Suuuiiiite" (s). |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 09 2008 at 12:46
Op. 220, as the catalogue number will be inversely proportion with the chronological factor. (in English, I have 219 pieces left to write in my lifetime... )-------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 09 2008 at 16:19
May i make a suggestion for your next masterpiece? BTW Ricochet, have you listen to my youtube link? I think you may like it ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 09 2008 at 16:42
You may inspire me. Just checked it now. You received 5 stars so far, wow! It just happens that, tomorrow, I shall play Brahms' Variations On A Theme by Paganini, 1st book in a class recital. (I'm quite into Brahms lately...I've got these Variations in my repertoire for two years now, might move on to those on an Aria by Haydn soon, plus the 1st Concerto, which has grown to me incredibly, some Waltzes, etc...) -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 09 2008 at 17:35
How about a piano piece that have chords that stretch over two octaves in each hand (no arpeggiating) called "Go On Then Brahms, Have a Crack At That" I think it will be recognised as highly innovative in the classical world, don't you agree? Of course, I'm not mocking my favourite composer in a spiteful way What are your opinions on my video from a fellow pianist's perspective? And I love the Paganini variations, I even prefer them to Liszt's versions. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 11 2008 at 18:57
Anyone going to rescue this thread before it disappears from sight? Surely this can't be all the classical fans on PA 
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: November 12 2008 at 06:06
Well, I can play an interval of 8+3 (sorry, I don't know how intervals, especially the composed ones, are called in English - the terms are, anyway, a lot different than in Romanian) with my right hand and an interval of 8+4 with my left hand, so it wouldn't be hard to play those overly stretched chords. About the video, I don't wanna make impressions like a critic - though, in a way, I like doing music critic i.e. see my reviews - maybe something from the recording blur somewhat the nuances (nuancing), otherwise I enjoyed listening to it. Seems to be a kind of "recreational" play as well... I didn't play this piece, if I did, I'd probably say a lot more "do this instead of that"... I like the Liszt-Paganini studies, I played nr. 2 (or 6?) in my 7th & 8th grade. The evolution was pretty much the same as in Brahms' case: grimaces during the first months, then, in the 8th grade, performances in presto leaving my colleagues with their mouths wide open. -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: November 12 2008 at 13:53
They do have that effect on people Evgeny Kissin, although he has an arkward technique, does some fantastic interpretations on the Liszt-Paganini Variations. Number 2 is exceptionally difficult, well done for pulling it off In English, what you call an 8+3 would be a compound third. It's peculiar how all the terms differ from country to country... Oh well, i suppose it makes it more interesting! At the moment I'm learning the Prelude & Fugue in F# minor from Book II. My piano teacher says my technique needs a work out, don't know whether you can see that or not ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: DatM
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 12:33
Hi, I'm new here, but just wanted t chime in this thread because I completely agree with jammun about string quartets. In fact my current project is completely based around that idea: http://www.myspace.com/deathmaiden - http://www.myspace.com/deathmaiden As you can see from that I'm pretty fond of Schubert's Death and the Maiden quartet, as well as his other late quartets. I also like Beethoven's late quartets, though they can get a bit dense if I'm not in the mood. Other string quartets I enjoy: Bartok's 4th, Shostakovich's 8th, and Ravel's. Aside from that, composers and pieces that cme to mind: Sibelius' Violin Concerto (amazing melody) Stravinsky - Rite of Spring Bartok's Piano Sonata Haydn - Farewell Symphony Bach - Passacaglia in C minor (and Stokowski's orchestration!) Art of Fugue more modern stuff: Arvo Pärt - Tabula Rasa Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians Alfred Schnittke - Concerto Grosso No. 1 (Current favorite) That's all I can think of right now... |
Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: November 19 2008 at 17:56
Don't forget the Quintet in C. It's even better, IMO. Among the very greatest in the genre. |