Rush Overvalued band
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52701
Printed Date: November 27 2024 at 22:30
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Topic: Rush Overvalued band
Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Subject: Rush Overvalued band
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:45
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i think their albums are very very seemed... their structures are always very seemed too, sound slightly elaborated if yo listen pink floyd, yes, genesis or king crimson they dont have any albums seemed
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Replies:
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:47
seemed?  ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:52
Seemed: To give the impression of being; to appear to exist  ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:55
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if I got it right.. what he is saying is Rush is overrated and compared to other groups musically.. .they aren't all that...
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:57
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Sounds like somebody needs to show this guy to the Suede Room. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:58
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or just give him a copy of Caress of Steel
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 11:59
Hey, Linus, David, and I all protect Rush in the Suede Room!   ------------- 
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rushfan4 wrote:Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:01
Hemispheres is better. My opinion is more qualified than yours because I'm a Rush buff.  -------------
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:08
Thanks for clearing that up Rico.   ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:12
Moi aussi, except we're talking Moving Pictures... (w00t Rubycon?!) -------------
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Posted By: febus
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:13
Ohhhh! Alex has a new look this morning..a Rubycon look. Had i crossed your path in the street this morning, i wouldn't have recognised you
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:14
There are others too; not everyone in the Suede Room is a Rush hater! (Yes, I absolutely love Rubycon and my current Tangerine Dream re-discovery phase has been going very well. I could see them climbing my favorite artist charts quite a bit.) -------------
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:15
Haha, yep, decided to start wearing some new clothes (bad pun). I'm planning to keep this scheme for quite a while though. -------------
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Posted By: febus
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:32
A change is good sometimes..at least you don't look ''seemed'' like that
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 12:41
Indeed. -------------
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:28
Best suggestion ever  Personally, I do think Rush are over-rated. Not because they're not good, but simply because their fans are quite devoted (this coming from VDGG's most rabid fan) but haven't yet really given me much reason to agree with them. 1. Lyrics. Peart's style often comes across as a bit strained and basic to me. Equally, it does sometimes hit the spot perfectly (The Fountain Of Lamneth, Cygnus X-I). I still don't really think he rivals the other great lyricists around. 2. Virtuosity. Often hear Rush called the best at their respective instruments. Don't see it, myself. They're all good, and have a lot of space to show off, but I don't see why they are so highly rated. Especially compared to a few rather overlooked (here, at least) figures of the 70s scene (Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond, for instance). 3. Geddy Lee won a best keyboard player poll. Yes, reading capability :p But Caress of Steel is awesome. Get that one. |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:34
| Why is Caress of steel so low rated then? We all seem to agree that is very good |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:36
Weirdly enough, it seems that album is more loved by non-Rush-fans than the big Rush-fans. |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:40
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Caress of Steel has none of the qualities of Rush that Rush fans love
about the band. There's slow moving, lo-key epics and a song based
purely on humor. Rush fans have no sense of humor although even among us you'll find that Bastille Day and Lakeside Park are favorites |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:42
That's the truth, yes. Speaking for myself, I can understand why many on a prog rock site would find them overrated. They were a great gateway band for me, showing that music not necessarily have to straight-forward, and they remain one of my favourite rock bands. They will always be. Perhaps weaker on prog credentials for many of their albums than many fans would admit, they still played some pretty unique stuff seen to their popularity. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:53
| I am a big Rush fan (surprise surprise!), but, as I have stated on numerous occasions, I tend to prefer their more recent output to their Seventies albums. I also agree with Linus's statement that the prog element in their music is not as strong as in the case of many other bands featured on this website. However, they are a great band with a unique sound, and their live shows are amongst the best I've ever witnessed. Contrarily to what some people seem to believe, I don't think a band or artist has to be 'prog' in order to be good |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:59
that is why I suggested it to him ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 14:25
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And on page two, Vi0LaToR seemed to have vanished from the planet... Rush is not overrated, for want of a decent definition of that word. There are better bands out there, when it comes to prog, but due to their musicianship, enthousiasm and determination to carry on it will take quite a few aeons before I no longer consider them my number one favourite band of the last 40 years. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 14:30
Yaaaaaaay  |
Posted By: progmetalhead
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 14:44
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Rush....overrated? I can think of a few bands that fit that category. Rush certainly do not. Their 74-81 period was one one of the finest I have ever known for one band. Long may they rule.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112" rel="nofollow - http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112 Colt - Admin Team MMA 
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Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:02
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maybe the problem is that Rush is a canadian band, and the best music is from UK without doubt, you will NEVER can compare any band from any country with a UK band.
example: King crimson? Genesis? Jethro tull? Pink Floyd? Yes? these are true bands
 |
Posted By: progmetalhead
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:11
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I would agree with you, the bands you note are exceptional in their own right. Without which we wouldn't be discussing this today. Being from the UK you would probably expect a full
 However, I can only speak of my favourite sub-genre PM. The Scandinavian countries alongside Brazil would have a very strong argument against your particular point.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112" rel="nofollow - http://www.last.fm/user/colt2112 Colt - Admin Team MMA
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:40
Sorry - can't resist: The Spice Girls ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:58
Certainly. And I agree with Mike saying that this album does not have the qualities that Rush fans love about Rush, but the point is really not there, although if your reviews are purely subjective(not a bad thing, and very common) then it might be the case. #1 Caress of Steel #2 2112 #3 Farewell to Kings #4 Moving Pictures And for the the thread's question. Yeah I also agree, though I admit they knew/know how to rock in an incredible way *thinking about Caress of Steel*
Not saying they're not Prog, but well, this discussion I had had in another thread some couple of months before, and I really lost the discussion  Though if I remember well it was 2112(Rush fans) VS 1(me), and that's not fair! 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:59
Yes, indeed, some of the best rock music generally has come from the UK. Rush, however are one of the greatest (prog) rock bands ever, and they happen to come from Canada. Would they have been any better had they come from London..?? I'm not sure what your point is.. 
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Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:07
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I agree with this thread a million times over. Rush is VERY overrated in my book.
------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:37
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Ahhhh! the overrated syndrome is among us once again
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:48
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As much as I enjoy Rush, I don't see them as a fully prog band. They fit the definition of prog-related better (in both being influenced by prog and, in turn, influencing prog).
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 17:13
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As cool as I think Rush is, I tend to agree with people who think they are overrated as a prog group. They don't use keyboards to create an atmosphere like most prog bands try to do. When they do odd time signatures, they are most often basic 5/4 or 7/8 times, and a lot of the time the odd time signatures are completely unneccesary. And while Geddy and Lifeson are both pretty good at what they do, the only amazing virtuoso in the group is Peart, who is also not as good as most people make them out to be.
However, I love listening to the Hemispheres album and they have created a handful of some of my favorite songs. It's just that a lot of their output tends to be more miss than hit for me. ------------- 
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Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 17:21
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Yawns
------------- 
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Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 17:27
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!, this is exactly the cuestion i was talking about
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Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 17:39
USA: britney speers, christina aguilera,backstreet boys,blink 182, and a lot of garbage more, if you have a little good taste you will know that the sound of USA bands are the same(green day,nickelbuck or linkin park,evanescence)
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 18:12
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I've probably said this before in some other thread. In the late-70's/early-80's, Rush was routinely played on the local hard rock station, right along with AC/DC, Judas Priest, and others of similar persuasion. They were certainly not considered a prog band, because that station was absolutely averse to prog!
Now that being said, they certainly eventually upped the ante, and Moving Pictures (first album I bought of theirs) I'd say would be considered prog.
Someone around here (sorry to lift your idea), posited that all sufficiently skilled bands (in terms of musical chops/songwriting skills) eventually become proggy. This is an extremely astute obsvervation. It's happened with pedestrian rock band after pedestiran rock band. And I think that theory applies to Rush. Certain bands just get better and better (I could name hundreds, I suppose). But think of Rush, Zep, and others that that started off as basic blues-rock bashers and later evolved.
So no, Rush is not overrated.
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 03:58
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Well, I don't think Rush are overrated. A top band IMHO and, no, I am not a fanboy.
As to the notion that Rush are no good as they're not from the UK, what a load of nonsense. We all know how much classic early prog was from the UK. However, for my money there hasn't been a great deal of top-notch prog from the UK for some time. There's been much better stuff lately from mainland Europe and the USA for my money, IQ excepted of course.
So there...........................................and I'm from the UK!!
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 14:51
I can ignore the Rush bashing, but this statement is ludicrous. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 18:46
 ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 18:58
Hang on, let my defend what the poster is saying. Erm ... this is going to take some hard thinking. Uhm ... ahhh... hmm. No... hey! Nah ... maybe... No, that's not it. Well at least I tried. ;) ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 19:02
...... ........  ............  ........
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 19:15
Well I was 16 in 1977 and they certainly were known as and written of as a Prog band then. The problem was that Prog had just about had its day just as Rush were breaking and a little like PT's aversion to be pigeon-holed as Prog, Rush's management tried to avoid that trap themselves and so made sure that the hard rock element was the one that was marketed. My biggest problem with what gets posted on ProgArchives is the constant revisionism and opinion that is expressed as fact. Gosh I'm beginning to sound like Steve Wilson!  |
Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 19:21
Okay the Spice Girls weren't the UK's finest musical hour but they never plumbed these depths, Mr Netherlands person http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qGe_qhy8NXU - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qGe_qhy8NXU ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 19:32
I'll buy that. Let me revise the statement to say that according to FM rock programmers, at least in this city, they were not considered prog.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 02:39
I wonder what Micky will say when he reads this ... Where are the RPI fans when one needs them? |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 05:16
This is the funniest thing I've seen since the campfire scene in Blazing Saddles...and it stinks just as badly. E ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 05:41
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Regulars around here know that I'm not a particularly big fan of the band. I don't think they are overrated. They clearly made a big contribution to prog overall. I tend tot think it may be because the fanboys are only too willing to show their love for the band (no offense intended to Alex, Pat etc ) and if it disappeared (the excessive fanboyism) you would probably find they are held in equal regard to many of the big prog bands of our time.------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 05:45
I sincerely hope you are joking. I really really goddamn do. At least Hawkwise can make me laugh with a ridiculous post, but this one didn't even do that. Anyone that tells themselves and somehow makes themselves believe music is better purely based on it's country of origin really must get their head checked. Worst post in this thread so far  Let's hope no post in this hread drops any lower than this. And apologies for listening to American prog or Canadian or whatever..... those impure, rotten bands -------------
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Posted By: rushaholic
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 07:14
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I wonder how much energy we expend discussing whether this band or that band is overrated. Whether it is Rush or Pink Floyd or whatever the flavor of the month is. I love Rush. I think their music, both old and new, is fantastic. I consider them to be one of the best. Does that make them overrated? Because many others feel the same, does that make them overrated? Those of us who think the band is great can still keep open minds about their role in the whole prog scene and their contributions to music. Whether you like them or not, whether you think Neil is the greatest drummer or not, whether Geddy's balls are being smashed in a vice - it doesn't really matter. Those with open minds will recognize that they have done great things. And to say that the best music only comes from the UK is ludicrous. I happen to believe some of the greatest bands are from the UK but that hardly means that other countries can not produce bands that are the equal or better. Very silly and absurd post. Now back to Guru Guru - Dance of the Flames. See - a Rush fanboy listening to krautrock. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 07:51
So let me so, you're saying that we can never compare Harmonium, Rush, Bacamarte, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Focus, PFM or Anglagard (to pick a few non-UK bands from the PA Top 100) with a UK band?
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 08:14
Nope. You can't. And let me take it one further. Only bands that started at Charterhouse are true bands.  ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 10:55
I suppose I should have been a little more constructive and directed him toward some of the great Italian and Japanese bands that I love. But sometimes even the most passive and peaceful person can become reactionary. Sometimes I grow weary of trying to persuade the polarized. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 15:51
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Never liked the band, but I would never say overrated ------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: pelican
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 16:29
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Only on a prog board would Rush be considered overrated
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Posted By: darksideof
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 16:33
------------- http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/ http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/ https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/ |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 16:59
| Oasis, now there's a band that's both UK and fairly incomparable. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 03:26
 -------------
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 03:34
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Actually Rush are one of the most underrated bands IMO!! there are few bands that evolved in their latter years without selling out radically to more commercial sounds. The more I have heard of 90's Rush+++ the more impressive they sounded, compared to even a band like Genesis & also their earlier work up to Power Windows is vintage material.
Overrated- No
Understated - Yes ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 03:37
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^*Waits and watches as this thread derails into an argument about what selling out actually is* -------------
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 14:01
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Rush was and is a good band. simple as that.
-------------  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 14:10
want a definition.... hmm... a picture says a thousand words...  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 14:17
We're carefully planning our vengeance |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 14:22
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hahhaa.. we just let them wallow in their ignorance His loss.. not ours hahhaa.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 14:24
Wait - what about a band from another http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=646 - planet? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 14:32
amen brother....  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 16:43
| This topic has been done ten million times without getting anywhere (I made my first post two years ago in one) so I suggest someone close and hide this. |
Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 09:45
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only one thing more ignoramus...
tell me only one reason that says music from UK is not better than...(another country?) there is NO REASON to explain this, because BEATLES or ROLLING STONES or THE WHO or LED ZEPELLING or one thousands millions bands from UK were and will be the music that NOWADAYS are making a lot of bands in the world.
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 10:34
^^^ What are these bands?  I've seen a great scene coming out of Poland, Israel and Sweden recently with acts who don't have as big of haves as those that you mentioned, for for a modern band they're all rather excellent. Just about every band who comes on the scene these days won't have as much as a chance as those early for-runners of the rock genre mainly because a. Those you mentioned where the first and they may not be "better" anyways since that's a personal preference and many people (myself included) enjoy the modern scene from other countries more than those old "classic" bands b. Nostalgia is an overruling factor. Those bands will never have a new band rival them because they were the first and they were the "best" in many people's eyes. Not true because people are quite ignorant to new music and they always stick with their "classics" c. New bands don't have the same chances as old bands. I hate to quote the guy, but it's like Bono once said, "There will never be another U2". Band who are aimed at the general population have a short shelf life because the general populous are quick to move on to the next trend thanks to our MTV culture. Your views are completely subjective and while it's a fact that those bands sold many more records than bands these says that also applies to modern British bands who have just as much troubles as other international bands and preference is preference. Now is a much different time than the 70s, but maybe in 30 years people will be talking about how Sweden was the best prog country ever because of bands like Anekdoten, The Flower Kings, Beardfish - and many others. Thank you for the post which inspired my rant |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 10:52
LED ZEPPELING ?????
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 11:11
I didn't even catch that |
Posted By: condor
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 11:25
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I thought Rush were over-rated then I heard 2112.
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Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 16:21
you smile? you have a picture of helloween and you smile? do you have any idea of music with a picture of helloween? jajajajajaj
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Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 16:27
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Porcupine Tree? marillion? IQ? oceansize? |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 16:31
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Hey Vi0LaToR, Check out this thread. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20495&KW=&PID=1900097#1900097 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20495&KW=&PID=1900097#1900097 It should take you down memory lane. It appears that you never went back to that thread after your initial post.
Are Rush overvalued? I suppose that it is a matter of perspective. 9 of my 10 favorite albums of all time are Rush albums, and yet none of them make the PA top 10 albums. Thus from my perspective, Rush are undervalued. Being a Rush fanboy, yes, I over value Rush's albums, but that is my tastes and my prerogative. As far as Rush being overvalued by PA, the answer to that is absolutely not. There are 3 bands on this site that get bashed more than any other and they are Dream Theater, ELP, and Rush. Hardly a thread goes by where somebody doesn't come along with a snide remark about at least one of these bands. So to answer your question, no, Rush are not overvalued. As matter of fact, you will find plenty of Rush haters on here to hang out with and commiserate with. -------------
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 16:39
Best post in this thread. -------------
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Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 18:14
sorry but... i cant belive it, because your nick is pure Subjectivity
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 18:22
I bet Zappa has made stuff that none of UK has ever possibly made. As well as for Magma, Skaldowie's Krywanu Krywanu, the Krautrock scene, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Pat Metheny, Return to Forever, Miles Davis, Weather Report, John Coltrane, Rush and hundreds of more. This is not saying UK music isn't bad, they have and had amazing bands, innovating, breaking barriers none had done, but all this stuff has also been in other ways by American bands, and from many other places. |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 18:35
One thousand million bands? That would be 1 billion bands. Assuming approximately 4 members per band and even allowing some overlap, so that we have on average 3 unique members per band, that would be 3 billion people. Now, assuming every person in the UK is a member of a band, including the elderly and small children, the UK would account for half of the world's population. Damn, you guys breed a lot for such a small country. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 18:37
Glad to see a Mathematical guy around, as well with Geographic studies
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 18:42
4 is hardly a thousand million Helloween may not be prog, but they're one of the best German power metal bands in existence and you really have to respect the length of their career. But I'm done feeding you
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 18:42
To quote me "Being a Rush fanboy, yes, I over value Rush's albums, but that is my tastes and my prerogative."
You have no arguments from me. That part of my statement is purely the definition of subjectivity. But that was my point. From MY perspective, Rush are undervalued on this site. If you hate Rush, as you appear to do, then of course they are going to be overvalued from YOUR perspective.
Although, I suppose that one could argue that 20 years ago there was a time when my opinion of Rush was quite objective and then I became a fan and they became my favorite band at which point I suppose that my opinion became subjective.
And please don't confuse my nickname with who I am. I don't listen to Rush 24 hours a day/seven days a week. I own over 4,000 albums/CDs from over 1,000 different bands, many of which I rate quite highly. It just so happens that Rush is still my favorite after all of these years. The fact that I like Rush more than Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd or King Crimson in no way devalues these bands. They are all great bands and musicians that I enjoy very much. This might surprise you, but it is no skin off my back that you don't like Rush. It upsets me that posters have this incessant need to bash them within the forums, but I honestly don't care whether or not you like them. That is your prerogative and your tastes, and in my subjective opinion, your loss.
And let me just say lastly that although you used the term "overvalued", the word "overrated" is one of the most hated words within this forum. And although I don't necessary think that it was your intent to be a troll, or to try and piss off a good chunk of forum members, the use of this word is not one that is going to help you win friends and influence people within these forums. Based on your date of be coming a member of the forums, I suspect that you are a serious prog fan and I hope that you will continue to post within the forums. In the future however, I hope that you will try to contribute from a more positive train of thought versus the negative train of thought that is created by using words such as "overrated".
I sincerely hope that you find happiness in the music that you like, because negativity is really such a downer.  -------------
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 18:43
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^^^He's also clearly never listened to Rush or he would have attacked me for the name thing as well
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 19:00
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[QUOTE=rushfan4]Hey Vi0LaToR, Check out this thread. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20495&KW=&PID=1900097#1900097 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20495&KW=&PID=1900097#1900097 It should take you down memory lane. It appears that you never went back to that thread after your initial post.
Are Rush overvalued? I suppose that it is a matter of perspective. 9 of my 10 favorite albums of all time are Rush albums, and yet none of them make the PA top 10 albums. Thus from my perspective, Rush are undervalued. Being a Rush fanboy, yes, I over value Rush's albums, but that is my tastes and my prerogative. As far as Rush being overvalued by PA, the answer to that is absolutely not. There are 3 bands on this site that get bashed more than any other and they are Dream Theater, ELP, and Rush. Hardly a thread goes by where somebody doesn't come along with a snide remark about at least one of these bands. So to answer your question, no, Rush are not overvalued. As matter of fact, you will find plenty of Rush haters on here to hang out with and commiserate with. [/QUOTEJust trying to answer this. I agree that over-rated/under-rated is a doubly subjective value (how good you think they are/how good you think other people think they are?). Being over-valued by PA... the fact that they get bashed at the same time doesn't mean they're not being rated and praised very highly by a lot of people. More precisely... Geddy Lee won a best keyboard player poll a while back... partly because people didn't read the question, and partly, I guess, because they knew Rush and not the other bands involved. Equally, I've seen Peart getting loads more votes in Best Drummer Ever polls than people like Palmer, Hiseman, Barriemore Barlowe, Phil Collins, etc. pretty much all of whom I find more interesting. Personally, I suspect that's because they ware (were/are) a three man band and so people find it easy to remember who they are... but nevermind. Generally, I think, PA rates Rush more highly than I do. In particular, I think, Rush fans are more eager to proclaim the skills of their individual members than most fans of other bands, and I don't find the individual members that impressive. I don't think they were really on the same level as the pioneers of progressive rock were. I still like Rush in general (especially Caress Of Steel and A Farewell To Kings). I just don't like them as much as the fans do. So, subjectively, I'll call them over-rated (even on PA) in a couple of areas. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:06
This is the post I can agree with most, though I am not one of those Caress of Steel aficinados.
I am a huge fan of Rush and I proudly hold up Snakes & Arrows as an example for some metal "legends" *cough*Judas Priest*cough*, *cough*Metallica*cough* to follow for how to reinvent yourself without losing a whit of your greatness. Yet I think they are given more credit than is due to them these days, I absolutely agree that I cannot see what makes Peart and Lee stand head and shoulders above other prog musicians. Even if we suppose that they were indeed the best in their field, the gap is hardly as huge as some Rush fans make it out to be. Strangely, Lifeson never seems to get his due, but that's another story. I wonder if Rush were 'valued' so highly in the late 70s and early 80s when they rose to prominence. I guess a lot of this revisionist overvaluing has to do with the first generation prog bands fading away even as Rush keep going strong and also Rush's tremendous influence on prog metal. Many new prog fans - though not me - got into prog through this genre, so that's understandable. I rate Moving Pictures as a fantastic prog album that 'rock' fans can relate to, though. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:15
| To add a little levity to the proceedings...they do remarkably decent covers of Yardbirds tunes. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 23 2008 at 22:58
| Rush is a band. Let's just leave it at that. |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 02:32
I'm certain VI0laTor will find this argument unconvincing. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 03:37
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 03:42
I'm glad you didn't say 'true' band. Good to see one of us is saving our troll chow for the upcoming winter. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 03:48
I too, like Rush, but they certainly aren't even in my top 30 favorite bands at this moment. But for some reason, I can't seem to have observed this on PA all that much: "Rush fans are more eager to proclaim the skills of their individual members than most fans of other bands, and I don't find the individual members that impressive" I think practically every really popular band on PA has had many threads/polls that show fans eager to proclaim skills of their individual members. The amount of Steve Hackett threads, Rick Wakeman threads, Bill Bruford threads for example. "and I don't find the individual members that impressive" I do agree with this point, although there are certainly some fans that are humble about the band's technical skill level, while occasionally the media and some over eager fans do of course hype them to be virtuosos even if they are not. Lifeson certainly is not a virtuoso, not by the standards of his time, nor now. Peart, is arguably the most technically skilled member, and while perhaps a virtuoso drummer "of his time" he certainly doesn't match up to the virtuoso drummers of the mid 80s and beyond "Palmer, Hiseman, Barriemore Barlowe, Phil Collins" To be fair, in a list like that, Phill Collins and Peart are going to among the most known. I am a Hiseman fan, and a fan of Colosseum II in general, but I suspect on PA there are is far less people that know who Colosseum II/Hiseman are, compared to those who know who Rush/Peart are, and so on for the less known drummers. "I don't think they were really on the same level as the pioneers of progressive rock were" I can agree but somehow I don't... if that makes sense They weren't around at the late 60s/very early 70s, doing what the bands of that time were doing for prog, you'd be right to say that, but I think Rush had something... I can't describe exactly what, but perhaps it's to do with what they were doing at the time, which I find to be just as remarkable as the other bands were doing 5,10 years earlier. -------------
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 07:44
In my case, I simply think they're generally more highly regarded than I regard them. Which isn't to say that my opinion's definitely right, and over-rated is a poor word to use, I admit. They basically wouldn't be one of my favourite 20/30 bands ever, while I get the impression they would be the band of choice for a lot of people. I admit over-rated gives the wrong impression. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 09:55
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Pretty much the response that I'd expect from you Rob. Not surprisingly they are overrated from your perspective. If the question were regarding VDGG, no doubt your and my sides of the argument would change. That is the great thing about "Freewill" (and yes I know you hate that song); you don't have to love Rush, and I don't have to love VDGG, but as I always add, someday they might just click with me and I will become a VDGG fanboy too.
BTW, for the record in the keyboard poll in question, I'm pretty certain that I voted for the keyboard player from Cairo, so take that for what you will. -------------
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Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 10:01
| i only said that RUSH is not really a prog band because : if you compare the probably best album of the band "moving pictures" or "farewell to kings" to the probably best album of yes "close to the edge" or fragile", CTTE is so far a best album in comparison. |
Posted By: Vi0LaToR
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 10:02
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 10:08
I'm predictable like that VDGG have two albums in the top 10. I'm happy with that :). Wouldn't call them under-rated at all (by any standard) (and I can understand why some people don't like them) except in that not too much love is given to the instrumentalists involved. I mean, I don't want everyone to immediately start declaring that Hugh Banton is the best organist ever, but I'd like a little more discussion about them. My attempts to prompt this have failed miserably :( As for Free Will... my main objection is the lyrics... they're so damn messy :! Otherwise it's pretty good. For the keyboard player poll, I think it's that a lot of people only knew Geddy and voted for him without thinking and/or reading the question. Anyway, to put me back on the nice side... listened to AFTK again yesterday, and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. The couple of things that irritate me still irritate me, but overall a superb album. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 10:10
James already has. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 10:14
I know. I know. I agree, as well (well, at least, my favourite. Don't know about best). |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 24 2008 at 10:35
Rush are a prog band, but I agree that they are not a prog band in the same vein as the pioneers of Prog. Yes, Genesis and ELP are in Symphonic Prog. King Crimson, Gentle Giant, and Vander Graaf Generator are in Eclectic Prog. Jethro Tull is in Prog Folk, but could also be in Heavy Prog. Pink Floyd is in Psychedelic/Space, but could possibly also be Symphonic. Rush is in heavy prog. So yes, Rush is a different branch of prog than the other classic bands of prog. Rush took prog rock in a different direction by combining it with the hard rock/heavy metal sound of bands like Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, and Deep Purple.
To possibly expand upon your previous comment, it could be argued that Rush took the progressive rock sounds from England and Americanized them. (or Canadianized them as the case may be). I'll leave any further explanation up to others far more knowledgeable in musical history or theory than me. -------------
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