Least Proggy Metallica Album
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52326
Printed Date: January 10 2025 at 16:51
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Topic: Least Proggy Metallica Album
Posted By: J-Man
Subject: Least Proggy Metallica Album
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 10:33
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I think many of the albums (With the exception of St. Anger-which is really a horrible album) have an influence on the prog metal genre (especially their newest one). Just wondering what others thought. ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Replies:
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 10:37
^^St Anger is the only one I've never heard, but the Black Album is about as progressive as a bowl of cornflakes... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 10:43
 -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
fandango wrote:Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 10:46
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Metallica did indeed influence prog metal, but really they had a broad influence on metal in general.
To my mind, the first four albums have something to do with prog to varying degrees.
The album Metallica retained a bit of thrash metal here and there (notably on Sad But True, which is essentially groove metal, a genre that is derived from thrash metal).
I'll vote Load for least proggy....a lot to do with it being extremely stripped down in arrangement really.
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Posted By: TRIFIVE5000
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 11:26
I think that all the albums above are great but are sincerely vote for Metallica (Black Album)
------------- Living on a lighted stage Approaches the unreal For those who think and feel In touch with some reality Beyond the gilded cage! |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 11:29
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Oh come on...who voted for 'And Justice For All...'??
That's their MOST proggy....  ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 11:37
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The only album I've heard is Master of Puppets, but after I saw them live last month somebody (a huge Metallica fan, not a prog fan) recommended St Anger as the place to start for listening to the rest.
------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 13:34
LMAO  Do NOT start with St. Anger. In fact, never listen to it. I'd recommend you try ...And Justice for All or Ride the Lightning next. ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 13:51
St Anger would be pretty cool if you were deaf.. actually, that is too much of a compliment of St Anger.
I would honestly rather listen to 90125 than St Anger.
I would rather listen to a man puking than listen to St Anger.... at least it would be amusing for about 2 minutes -------------
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 14:25
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i would rather listen to George Bush speak for 2 hours than listen to St. Anger
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 15:16
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The incorrect answers are the first 4 and Death Magnetic.
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 16:34
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What exactly is the problem with St. Anger? Quite frankly its the first interesting album since Master of Puppets.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 16:35
I actually might agree with you there. ------------- 
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 18:29
Thanks, you made me laugh... ...That was your intention, right? Seriously, St. Anger is the least proggish in any way you can look at it... Music is just a bunch of people manipulating their instruments, and lyrics are at least funny... |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 19:28
First of all, there is 0 "proggish" about any their music, ever. Their history, their philosophy is 100% anti-prog. That wasn't my question. And your second statement can pretty much be said about any band. How many times do you think that has been said about King Crimson, Dream Theater, Yes, etc.? After the 15 years of utter rubbish they put out, that is really your opinion? When they decide to actually make changes to their sound and quit droning out the same old radio oriented tripe. Personally, I don't listen to it often either, there is way to much true progressive music, jazz and orchestral music out there that I want to hear. But I sure do have a hell of alot more respect for their work on SA for at least some effort at originality over the black album or Load or Freeload. And when I do decide to listen to them, it will probably be SA. Don't worry, they're back to what the same old crap. And I'm sure they are busy working on the Unforgiven IV. And the fact that SA gets more votes than Kill 'em All tells me that many people have not heard one or both of those albums. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: October 05 2008 at 22:53
| St anger rocks the hell out!!! |
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: October 06 2008 at 03:52
| Definitely Kill em All. Whilst it's not at all proggy, I love that album. Real thrash, brilliant album. |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: October 06 2008 at 04:48
You know. I was kinda wondering the same thing. I think someone must have been confused.
I don't have St. Anger or Death Magnetic. Of the ones that I have I would say Load is the least proggy. In fact, I really don't see any traces of prog on that album at all. It also happens to be my least favorite Metallica album, although Reload isn't much better in terms of progginess or likability. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 06 2008 at 15:39
I agree that Metallica are not proggish, but you cannot deny that AJFA is a technical record (whatever that means for you). I also agree with the 15 years of rubbish music, but St. Anger is just beyond expectations... so much crap in one record I have never heard in my life... honestly... Kill 'em All might be their least proggish release, but I said St. Anger as this 'thing' is not even music to my ears. good point about Unforgiven IV, I clearly oppose to that idea. But At least DM is some sort of decent record, with strucutre, interesting riffs, some melodies... it represents sth, even if it's a copy of old material for you. I am not defending them at all, this record does not wipe out their recent past, but at least it's music, not just noise... |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 08 2008 at 03:28
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Okay, phew, there is a "none are prog" option...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Gentlegiantprog
Date Posted: October 08 2008 at 04:48
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If any of them are proggy at all, which they might not be; it'd be St. Anger. On St. Anger they did what they wanted, pushed what was expected of them, changed their whole sound, and took a diffrent approach to even creating an album.... what's more prog than that. Just because a bunch of terrible journalists and easily convinced teenagers decided the album was rubbish because of the snare sound and lack of solos, doesn't mean the album should ever have been written off by intelligent people. I realise the question was more 'what albums do Dream Theater et al want to sound like,' and not 'which album is most progressive,' but thats just how I feel. HUGELY underrated St Anger. The least influential to prog metal bands- album would probably be Reload or indeed St. Anger, or Death Magnetic because its too new. ------------- Let the maps of war be drawn ! 
http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: October 08 2008 at 05:25
Those incredibly embarrassing lyrics are enough to write the album off by every fairly intelligent person . Metallica were just four rich, old clueless guys desperately looking for the sound they thought was right for the kids. So they ended up with a revolting coctail containing lots of emo and little nu-metal, some thrash etc...Not pushing anything, and no artistic integrity whatsoever. Sound to me like they made Death Magnetic with the same approach. Its just a little more successful. Btw: reviews on St. Anger's were mostly positive/good when the album was new. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 08 2008 at 10:55
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The same question comes up that I've asked so many others at different times. What is any more embarrassing, stupid, cliche'...whatever negative I ever hear, about SA lyrics than any of their other lyrics? Master of Puppets has some of the most banal and obnoxious lyrics I've ever heard, and its considered their masterpiece. And enough with the rudeness toward those of us who don't agree with you SA mobbers. There are plenty of us "fairly intelligent persons" who have a different view of the album than you. It does nothing to solidify your position. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 08 2008 at 11:37
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St Anger -------------  |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 08 2008 at 23:11
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Well, this should be moved to the prog-related section, not here... ------------- 
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: October 09 2008 at 04:57
I'm not rude towards anyone but Metallica and their lyrics. I just came up with one reason (based on the post I quoted) I consider good enough to write St. Anger off. Metallica's lyrics have never been memorable, but I'm (and many others it seems) only embarrassed by St. Anger's therapy/self help books-clichés. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: October 09 2008 at 05:23
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None of the first 4 albums, that's for sure... That's progressive in the true sense of the world. But after that, I don't really think any of their albums have very much to do with prog. Keep in mind how different the music scene was in 83-88. In my eyes, innovation was the most "proggy" feature of Metallica, and everything after "Justice" pales in comparison in that respect. ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 09 2008 at 14:17
Totally agree with that. No offence to anyone else  |
Posted By: inrainbows
Date Posted: October 09 2008 at 16:07
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"none of them"
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: October 13 2008 at 22:26
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The only thing prog about Metallica is how Lars' sullen attitude has "progressed" . I always found this band somewhat "amusing" ..... but progressive? maybe for some in metalland but certainly way less than Maiden , par exemple. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 17 2008 at 06:30
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Are there really people who don't think Metallica have any relation to Prog?
I find it impossible to believe - unless, of course, they hadn't actually listened to Metallica. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 17 2008 at 06:45
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^But, no mellotron though :P
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 17 2008 at 13:23
Did you know there are also people who think Linkin Park and Mudvayne are prog?!?!?!  People have all kinds of crazy views, best not to get too riled-up about it. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 10:44
-------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 17:09
Okay I can see maybe Mudvayne, but Linkin Park? How do you swing that?
But along with Avantgardehead, I totally agree with him. Now, anyone who thinks that Metallica had listened to much Yes or Gentle Giant is probably a bit strange. But the thing is, they totally did things that metal bands of the era weren't doing. That is true progression, and the fact that they're not influenced by the original prog bands makes it a thousand times more progressive than that. ------------- 
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Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 08:44
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Black Album, Load or Reload. St. Anger at least has some rather long songs.  |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 09:46
I'll go with the "Black Album", which is, in my very humble opinion, one of the most boring albums ever recorded (I'm tempted to use the 'O' word too, but I'll refrain from doing so). It is flat, monotonous, and utterly unoriginal.... What a sharp contrast with its predecessor! 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 10:27
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hahahha... what numbnut voted for AJFA... RtL... MoP... these polls crack me up... for me... haven't heard anything after the Black Album... which I thought was a sh*t album. So giving my vote to that... but probably would have gone elsewhere if they hadn't lost me completely ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MaidenMadness
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:02
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metallica have never been, at this moment aren't and in future never will be prog, or prog related. the fact certain prog metal bands drew inspiration from metallica among others doesn't change that fact. syd barrett drew certain inspiration from nursery rhymes and that doesn't make nursery rhymes a'la humpty dumpty or twinkle twinkle little star prog. the fact some of you like to think of metallica as prog because you like them for reasons which are only clear to you doesn't make metallica nor prog nor prog related. i love iron maiden but i am clear about the fact that they don't have any relations with prog whatsoever. metallica have made 4 classic albums but sadly they chose to stop making music after they released ..and justice for all as much as every other metalhead i'd love for metallica to come out of retirement but after 20 years of abstence from music industry i think its safe to assume its not gonna happen. ------------- 
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:03
What? It is an overrated album in my opinion as well. No need to be afraid to say it. *Awaits mob bearing torches and pitchforks* -------------
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:14
Alright, I can't keep silent any longer about this. If you don't think Metallica, or even IM at the least, are prog related, then I'd wonder how much you know about the history of metal. To say that Metallica was influential is almost an understatement, because I can't think of many metal or prog metal bands that came after them who weren't in some way or other influenced by Metallica's 80s putout. And to be quite honest, Metallica actually MADE 4 progressive metal albums (I'd be all for having them in prog metal instead of prog related, but I get the feeling I'd get stoned for thinking such heathenous thoughts ). Granted I'm not talking about progressive in the sense of 70s prog rock but in "progressive" music that's moving forward and trying something new. Kill 'Em All helped to creat 2 new genres of music, speed and thrash metal, which to me is a pretty big sign of what the band accomplished in that decade. Granted I'm no longer a huge Metallica fan like I once was, but sometimes I wonder if some people are using this as an excuse to simply take a piss on prog metal again, something that sadly happens too often on this site... -------------
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Posted By: MaidenMadness
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:14
metallica have never released an album called black album or something of the kind. here i'll be more and happy to list to you entire metallica discography 1983 - kill em all 1984 - ride the lightning 1986 - master of puppets 1988 - ..and justice for all that is all. there is no more. however the fact that some faggy ass pop rock/nu metal band called metallica as well has been releasing albums since 1991 has a lot of people confused into thinking its the same band when in fact they are two completely different bands -------------
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:18
Well well, I see we are certainly open to new ideas. Inappropriate language doesn't really make it seem that mature either. You are entitled to your opinion of course, and I almost feel the same as you do that Metallica "died" after the 80s so to speak, but you can't simply dismiss a large majority of their discography simply because you don't like it. It exists, but no one's making you listen to it. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:27
hahahhaha... sorry for being blunt... but that is the biggest bunch of bullsh*t I have read here in a nice bit. bands are NOT added here because simply some people like them... .the people who work for this site judge the music regardless of whether they like it or not... if the band was added... it was because there was very likely a REASON they belonged on the site. If you don't agree.. suit yourself... opinions are like assholes.. everyone has one. Don't call the integrety of the work the people do here into question however. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MaidenMadness
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:37
prog bands drew inspirations from so many different bands of different genres that in fact you could include just about every single band out there as prog/prog related. the fact that people on pa came up with a genre pa doesn't shape the musical world in a way that there really is a genre named prog related. its strictly a fiction of mind of certain people from pa. the genre prog related is nothing but a bunch of crap. under same thoughts one could include the likes of diamond head, motorhead, queen or someone from first wave of black metal such as venom or bathory? why not count early norwegean black metal bands such as mayhem or darkthorne or burzum as prog as well after all didn't they have direct or indirect influece on the likes of opeth? the tag prog related is nothing but a piece of sh*t. on your 2nd question metallica in fact died with cliff burton. and justice for all just happened. the rest of it i don't acknowledge it exists because if i did acknowledge its existance i couldn't have any respect whatsoever for the band that created 4 classic albums from kill em all to and justice for all. its not about me being closed minded about music is them releasing crap albums. i mean black? load? reload? or how about garage inc which is nothing but 2 cds filled with covers? thats even without me even mentioning st anger. sorry but for me metallica after and justice for all doesn't exist. not even songs a la nothing else matters that many see as classics. -------------
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Posted By: MaidenMadness
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:39
and since we're all being honest why not answer my question. if metallica was added simply because it influenced prog metal bands why not add twinkle twinkle little star or the entire bunch of r&b artists as well since they influenced early prog metal bands? -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:41
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yawn.. .used the goddamned search function kid.. and find the 35 page thread that explains why they were added. do it quick before you find yourself on the bad side of people who aren't as forgiving of stupid posts as these. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MaidenMadness
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:44
if you like to believe in a lie that metallica made 4 prog albums its your choice, however your opinions don't make lies come true. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:46
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prog - RELATED.. read it, live it, understand it before you make more of a fool of yourself ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MaidenMadness
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:50
prog related meaning not prog but somehow linked to prog. once again something thats so undefined one can add whatever he wants to in there cause prog bands in general have many different influences. so what gets added? what majority of people feel should get added. nothing but a popularity contest. -------------
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Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:52
Not interested in debating Metallica, as I've articulated my opinion in other threads. However, I will say that although the term "prog related" is a somewhat ambiguous term, it was constructed, so I understand, to be ambiguous, i.e. to allow for future additions (not unlike the US constitution). Whatever potential hazards the definition allows is checked by the addition process (loosely analogous to peer-review). In genreal, such categorization has no real meaning, but it can be a useful guide in selecting music. |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:53
Here's the old thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50828&KW=metallica ------------- |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:54
if you really wanted to know... you would go to THAT thread.. and read just why the site believes they were related. The admins here make that final determination... call them spineless fanboys why don't you. have a clappie as a parting gift.. I have lots of them..for at least spicing up a boring Sunday around the forums.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 13:58
That's right that categorization has no real meaning at all. and BTW guys do not fight for something that was discussed BEFORE adding Metallica. waste of time and bandwith ------------- |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 14:04
It doesn't work that way: look into the procedure for addition of artists to the archives. For what it's worth, the majority objected to the inclusion of Metallica. |
Posted By: MaidenMadness
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 14:24
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 14:34
Wrong. The other thread explains why you are wrong here.
The FACT is that they have every relation with Prog Metal - and that's why you're wrong.
Read the other thread.
No it isn't - it means Prog Related. I dispute that, because Metallica are so obviously Prog Metal - at least, to those of us with ears.
The rest of your argument is just rubbish - and answered by the other thread that you refuse to read.
So what?
For many, Genesis didn't exiist after "The Lamb..." - but that doesn't stop them being Prog!
Sorry, but you really DO need to read that other thread.
No-one is lying, and your opinions are not as strongly based in reason as you seem to think they are. I too have been listening to Metallica, Prog, and music that would make your brain crawl out of your ears in protest for more than 2 decades. almost 4, in the case of Prog and other music.
The fact is that Metallica made at least 3 Prog Metal albums - whether you like it or not.
And I don't see any solid argument in your response, so I'm not actually sure why I'm replying, as I feel certain the response will not be carefully considered.
Let's see... ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 14:50
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*munch munch munch*
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MaidenMadness
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:08
sorry but if that is the reason why metallica are considered a prog band than one can go easily and add the likes of megadeth, testament, death angel, heathen and the whole lot. personally i think its a weak argument. other explanations metallica's sound influenced the likes of dt? fair enough but in a same way nwobhm bands such as diamond head should be considered to be at least as equally influential as metallica as metallica's sound was much more influenced by them, than prog metal bands a'la dt's sound was influenced by metallica. if we want to be honest bands such as virgin steele or savatage have more prog elements in their music than metallica ever had. i am reading through that thread now and personally i don't see what i consider to be valid case for considering metallica prog related. now if people here want to hold it against me then so be it. i stick by what i said, imo metallica is neither: a) prog nor b) prog related in any greater extent than the likes of megadeth, venom, celtic frost, bathory, metal church and co are. -------------
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:59
You could be right on that one. However, I suggest you keep an eye on the kind of language you use on these forums. Calling people names, or using words that don't pass our auto-censor function (the **** in your previous posts) don't work to your advantage. You are fully entitle to an opinion, and to presenting it, as long as you stick to arguments. If that's to hard, we'll know what exit to show you. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:19
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:44
Now wait just a minute! Genesis had a nursery rhyme in their Nursery Cryme album, so I think you're on to something! Plenty of prog bands have non-prog influences, so I don't think going around and adding all these influences is going to do any good (remember when My Dying Bride was here?  ). Mention the influences in the bio of the prog artist and let the reader do his or her own research.------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 16:56
That's a part of it - the rest is in the other thread
We went into that in the other thread.
We went into that in the other thread.
Not just the sound - please read the other thread.
I agree about Diamond Head, BTW - always have done - but there are almost no "bands such as..." in Diamond Head's case - and they never made a fully Prog Metal album, more's the pity.
I don't think so. Haven't heard many prog elements in their music myself.
Really?
You should do a bit more than skim-reading it then.
Which bits do you disagree with?
You stick to what you said, I stick to what I said, everyone is happy - except that why Metallica are more Prog-related than those other bands (except, perhaps, Celtic Frost) has been reasoned through with no serious counter-argument in the other threads on this subject - so you need not just a better argument, but an argument.
I don't hold it against you - I can just see you haven't actually thought it through. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 17:32
Careful - they also had a shopping list in The Aisle of Plenty. Before you know it.... ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 20:45
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All of them Heavy Mental Rubbish
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 02:03
This post actually made me laugh, for all the wrong reasons. I think if only because it completely broke up the serious arguments at exactly the right time. -------------
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 03:20
Would've made a nice 1000th post for Hawkwise - unfortunately it was his 999th.... Anyway, let's get back on topic here - this is a poll on Metallica albums, not another thread for discussing the validitiy of their inclusion. We already have one of those. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:23
mmm..... People are talking about this guy for all the wrong reasons... It's obvious that he can't listen to opposing arguments.... that's obvious. That he's even open to READ other people's arguments we have all the proof for the CONTRARY.... BUT, as for his future in PA, why hasn't somebody paid attention to the poor choice of words that this guy has? That word highlighted in red is oofensive from what little I know of the English language.... ... -------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 12:44
Of course Angelo already addressed his poor word choice.
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 16:00
So I did. 
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 03:46
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Hai guyz, letz find whuever influencd xMetallicax and add them 2 prog-related-related!! *snort* *chuckle* And are there any other bands that Metallica supposedly influenced besides Dream Theater? I want band names and song titles or they don't exist. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 05:56
Not sure why you've chosen this as a personal crusade. Nevertheless, I'll answer your question: Opeth. Both Akerfeldt and Lindgren have cited Metallica as a major influence. It's not musically obvious, of course (there is the case of Orchid, but the twin-guitar harmonies are probably due more directly to the Gothenburg sound than Metallica (although the latter surely influenced the former). |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 08:24
Well the list is incredibly long - Metallica had a huge range of influences, as did the early Prog bands - so this approach really isn't viable.
Besides, we don't add every band that influenced Classic Prog bands - we'd be up to our necks in folk, jazz and Classical artists and composers.
Again, the list is just too long to even begin - any band that uses the thrash technique and a complex approach to structuring (ie, most Prog Metal bands) can be said to be influenced by Metallica in some way, however distant.
The difficulty here is not finding a band influenced by Metallica, rather it's the other way around.
If a tree falls in a forest and you don't hear it, does that mean it doesn't make a sound?
*snort* *chuckle* ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 16:02
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Ohhhhhhhhh, I get it! They have that sort of intangible yet omnipresent influence that can't be hammered-down exactly. I understand now. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 16:11
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can we go back to the topic??? ------------- |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 17:17
(also Nevermore in every album but they are not in PA) |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: October 21 2008 at 17:30
Is this a ploy to lure someone into spewing forth a whole list of Progarchives' Dream Theater clones just so that you can then laugh at them for listening to Dream Theater clones? |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 02:38
It's completely tangible, as a matter of fact - so no, you don't understand!
Try again - and this time, use those flappy things either side of your head, and please try to connect it to the squidgy stuff that lies between them
When I'm having so much fun? Why? ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 03:30
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: October 22 2008 at 03:50
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. -------------
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Posted By: poslednijat_colobar
Date Posted: November 25 2008 at 05:21
| Load is everything else,but prog rock! |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: November 25 2008 at 12:02
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None of these albums are progressive , except for the first 4 albums . Heavy Metal Rock by all means , with SOME inclination to Progressive in some Songs , specially for the Black Album and Master of Puppets , and maybe Ride the Lightning ////// ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 26 2008 at 15:17
No, there's lots of actual Progessive Rock on the first 4 albums.
It's Progressive METAL - how hard is that to understand?
There's almost nothing progressive on the Black Album - just ballads, Nu-Metal and some thrash. The Black Album just sounds better than previous albums because of Bob Rock's shiny metallic production. The songs are much less progressive as a rule than Kill 'Em All.
Ride the Lightning is probably the first Progessive Metal album proper, with MoP being the absolute benchmark and pinnacle of Progressive Metal composition - but KEA has moments of PROG, a la King Crimson. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: November 26 2008 at 15:24
If you mean that Kill 'Em All is progressive in the sense that it far exceeded anything that was heard in metal at the time, then yes, you're right. Otherwise I agree with you 100%. Also, I'd like to thank the person who resurrected this thread. It gave me a few laughs going back and reading some of the things some people had posted. -------------
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Posted By: obiter
Date Posted: November 26 2008 at 22:23
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So is any band that does anything new or different progressive? I suppose Norwegian Death Metal also progressed Metal but does that make it "progressive". If so, then Kill Em All and Master of Puppets qualify. oh whoops my head just disappeared up my own backside. i never knew my navel looked like that (from the inside). There's a voice in my head saying "just vote and run away": OK I voted: I don't reckon any are progressive ------------- An té nach mbíonn láidir ní folláir dó bheith glic |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: November 27 2008 at 00:22
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seems like this band, above any other, needs to be eliminated from this website
sticks out like a sore thumb, why not add all metal bands then, or every single rock band for that matter -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: November 27 2008 at 00:31
| St. Anger is the least proggy. They tried hard to ditch their influences with that one. Bad riffs, and uninteresting song structures. Their lyrics focused much more on personal problems than outside political/societal issues. Although to be fair, that is where they were at the time, and needed to get through. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 27 2008 at 03:29
Not necessarily.
I think there are plenty of Death Metal bands here - Death, for example.
The reasoning that if a subgenre of Metal progressed the Metal genre, then that subgenre is progressive is fatally flawed: Progressive music is easily identifiable in that it is inherently progressive. How that identification is made is much trickier, and is usually decided on a per-band basis, not a per subgenre basis.
Kill 'Em All "qualifies" for many, many reasons.
Master of Puppets is a Bona Fide Prog metal album, superior in many ways to Prog metal albums that followed it - most importantly in that it is one of the very few Progressive Metal albums that actually contains complex compositions instead of mere complicated ones.
Not only are both distinctly (one might say completely) different to everything that preceeded them in a very large number of ways, they also contain plainly identifiable elements of Progressive Rock music, including what is, to me, the most important feature - that the music itself is inherently Progressive, not a simple literal progression from what went before - although there is a case for MoP being a simple progression of RtL.
That's quite a feat
The evidence says otherwise
Apart from the fact that this is almost completely incoherent - assuming you're a native English speaker (if not, I apologise) - your reasoning here is non-existent and plain rude to all the people who think that Metallica should be here.
The reason that not all metal bands are added is because not all metal bands are progressive. Metallica WERE, just like Genesis WERE. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: November 27 2008 at 03:45
I am safe to assume you guys need to be directed to some background reading? i.e previous threads on the matter -------------
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: November 27 2008 at 10:14
-------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: November 27 2008 at 10:19
-------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: November 27 2008 at 10:28
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: November 27 2008 at 18:30
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The prog metal category has to be cut up into 7 different descriptions and my ears have me placing more importance in the word metal than prog for any of the bands within that i've heard, and basically all I've said there is that I don't care for metal even if its labelled "prog" but that's my problem. That doesn't now mean that I believe former metal gods Metallica should be included on this site based on a few complex songs and the fact someone claims them as an influence. If there was a Prog Influences category then fine but hypothetically say the Dixie Dregs were influenced by, say, the Allman Brothers Band and say that said Allman Brothers had a few somewhat complex songs of there own then maybe.....see where we are here. Now I like the Allman Brothers but I don't want them thrown in here just so that I can review their work. ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 28 2008 at 08:32
They're not here "based on a few complex songs" - please review all of the reasoning rather than making such a snap assumption. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 28 2008 at 09:06
Bands cannot be removed once added to the site. Sorry about that, but this is what the OWNER of PA wishes. I'm afraid that people who don't agree with this policy will just have to accept it, or find another place to hang out at. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: November 28 2008 at 10:28
Going by what progrocker said here:
------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: WinterLight
Date Posted: November 28 2008 at 10:51
Not exactly.
My emphasis added in both quotations. I don't think any commentary on the discrepancy is necessary. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: November 28 2008 at 15:12
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And if we are going to include all complex albums with long tracks we could put a lot of bands that aren't prog here. Frankly, I think that Metallica can only be justified as being here if there was an Influences category otherwise it's a little like the rock and roll hall of fame letting Madonna in, she was popular and influenced a generation of pop princesses but is that what rock is all about. Metallica is the band that turned down a bassist because he played too well for god's sake. Oh well, gotta run now and put on an album from my favorite grammy award winning metal band, Jethro Tull.
I do say, I enjoy this healthy debate and respect very much everyones passion and civility. Tell me this isn't fun. ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: November 29 2008 at 09:57
You're overlooking the fact that complexity and long tracks are not the only criteria for adding a band.
Metallica is also the band that took on a bassist because he was the best experimental metal bassist on the scene.
They are in Prog-Related, but it's self-evident that the music is Prog, not standard (or even simply elongated) metal. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: DatM
Date Posted: November 29 2008 at 11:39
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Metallica is kinda like pot...for many they were the gateway to harder dru...I mean, music... Actually I think many thrash and metal bands showed prog leanings back then, which made a lot of metalheads like me check out Rush and other prog bands. This is why DT made such an impact when they came out. ------------- Death and the Maiden - A Metal Tribute To String Quartets http://www.deathandthemaiden.net - Website http://www.myspace.com/deathmaiden - Myspace |