The official ELP disscussion thread
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Topic: The official ELP disscussion thread
Posted By: crimson87
Subject: The official ELP disscussion thread
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 22:08
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Well the purpose of this thread is to share your views and everything else about this seminal prog institution.However , there is another major objective.TO TAKE BRAIN SALAD SURGERY TO THE PLACE WHERE IT BELONGS: THE TOP 10.
So ELP fans , start sending your 5 stars reviews about this masterpiece ASAP.By the way , this is not by any means fanboysm.
Is just giving ELP the credit they deserve.
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Replies:
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 22:30
I think TARKUS or TRILOGY should be there as well
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=85883473">  ................ |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 22:45
 Was just checking the PA top 100 prog albums and guess what, i was schocked not to find one single ELP among them.....really surprising and scary!!!
For a band that was among the top 5 big names and the posterboys of prog, what a downfall , at least on this site..................yes, there is a lot ELP bashing these days sadly!
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=85883473">
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Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 00:13
| Its because prog fans like pretentious and bombastic...but not THAT pretentious and bombastic. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 05:40
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Didn't ELP intersperse their albums with too much stuff that was just.. I dunno, dorky? to be taken seriously?
I believe they deserve a very high position in Prog history, but they just weren't consistant enough. Each album had its Benny the Bouncer or suchlike that just drags the overall effect down.
The other entries in the top 100 didn't have this, and that's where they have the advantage.
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 06:11
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There are already more than enough BSS reviews, I don't think we need new ones. Who will read them?
------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 10:50
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Already turning into a anti ELP bashing thread..bye
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=85883473"> |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 11:14
Come on! It wasn't that rough  I love many of ELP's compositions, but calling all of them masterpieces wouldn't feel right. The self-titled debut is flawless, with Tarkus a definitely weaker CD for me (even the Tarkus suite haven't entirely convinced me). Trliogy feels really consistent, but lacks some of the excitement and hunger of the debut while BSS have the masterly Karn Evil 9, Toccata, Jerusalem and the nice Still...You Turn Me On. They represent some of the best of prog, but it's not strange if people are reserved towards songs like Are You Ready Eddy and Benny The Bouncer. I also think the classical reamakes make people a little negative, detracting from the originality of ELP. Being (as I see it) one of the "purest" forms of classic prog and the band I'd instantly take as an example of prog, that's another fact that some people consider good, while others find big, loud, bombastic and overblown. I like my fair share of ELP's work and couldn't care less if others don't. |
febus wrote:Posted By: febus
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 11:45
Very good points...Mr Linus
 ...............you know , ELP is not even my top 20 favorite bands, but i recognize their extreme importance in the development of prog...When i grew up in the 70s, they were up there in popularity with Pink Floyd, Yes and other Genesis, well more than other bands such as King Crimson .And not have one of their recordings in the top 100 and who knows, maybe the first ELP might be well beyond #100 seems kind of far stretched for me.
Why? because of Benny the bouncer or Are you ready Eddy, 2mn long a piece???/ that destroy the whole LP?/???? are the 100-150 dics PA top discs all that flawless??? none of them has fillers or some silly passages?????/
1Omns of miminalist Moonchild music doesn't seem to put ITCOTCK down??? Are ''More fool me'' and '' i know what i like'' uber-pieces of music???Are all those albums from YES, Gong, Pink Floyd, Vdgg, Genesis, KC, FZ,listed flawless??? are they all full of 40ms of exquisite wonders?
Just seems ELP cannot get a break and their flaws are always more scrutinized and vilified than the others.That's what i notice!!!
ad there is no ''Benny the bouncer'' on the first ELP or Pictures at an E. or TRILOGY, yet those albums are not in the top 100.
Also funny how even ''Benny'' or ''Eddy'' destroy the flow of the albums as it woud be considered utterly ''funny'' if recorded by another artist.
And to end this post, many people take ELP as a bloated group with no sense of humor and when they do some ''humor'' songs to lighten up, the album is no good....No winning for ELP, it seems!1
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=85883473">
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 12:26
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I agree with febus completely.
Anyway, regardless of our Tops here ELP is and will ever be one of the key prog (and rock in general) bands. Personally I'm not going to repeat what has been said many times and review ELP albums only because of the race to Top-50 or Top-100. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 12:26
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i think the band as a whole is up there with the greats but thats more aresult of a cumulative grading system. personally i like ELP but I dont like to sit through any of their albums in their entirety. their first is the only one, and why it gets the highest rating. but on all their others my fingers itch for the skip button. trilogy is awesome tarkus is great, BSS is pretty good but i just dont think their albums individually are on par with most of the top 50. def should be in the top 100 though, or at least the self titled or trilogy.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 13:11
That's the way I like my prog.When you put these 4 words together magic happens.
What the heck is wrong with those people?? Seems they had too much prog metal exposure.
 By the way I am listening to Selling England and I thought " Where is the power , the overthetopness that I like so much?
ELP made me dislike "Selling England by the pound" I can't believe it!!!
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 13:56
I've noticed this too: not a general rule, but ELP fans often don't like Genesis and vice versa. I belong to ELP camp, though I don't think they made me to dislike Genesis. But listening to Gabriel era Genesis I ask the same question "Where is the power?" ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 14:07
That particular song is an uber-piece of music. Absolutely brilliant from Collins, rest of the band is great, Gabriel's vocalolyrics are superb. I think the second side of Tarkus hasn't transferred as well from LP to CD as others have, as the two light pieces are acting as bookends here. I had the advantage of originally hearing the title track out of the album's context, which detached the two sides mentally. Otherwise... ELP are a really high-energy and edgy band, I think you need to be somewhat in tune with that for some of their later albums to work. A bit more rough and ready in feel in the studio than I'd say Yes, Genesis or even King Crimson really were, which makes them less all-encompassing. Wouldn't call them pretentious, myself: they did what they wanted to do, and in the process put out a lot of really good music. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 14:12
ELP are a high-energy, rough-and-ready (not to say the composition isn't excellent) band with very overt progression and a focus on monstrous solos. Genesis are a low-key, very compositional band with subtler progression and a focus on band cohesion. Hence, I can understand the discrepancy. The bands have different aims, features and points, so they aren't always going to appeal to the same people. I love both, though I prefer Genesis a little. And man, you need to hear the Genesis Live version of The Knife, that is power  |
Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 14:20
ELP first 4 albums  all classics
------------- 
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 14:46
But my problem is not with Genesis , it's just Selling England.Those 53 minutes are not annoying but I feel almost nothing and I used to really like the record.
Going back to our beloved band , which CD edition of Brain Salad Surgery do you like the most? The newer mini LP one or the on that was released in the mid 90's that has that "hologram" thing (and The making of BSS as a bonus track).I am asking this question because I got the second one and I would like to know if the other is worth it.
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Posted By: febus
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 14:57
I posted that????? where, please???
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 15:05
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[QUOTE=febus]
big, loud, bombastic and overblown. I posted that????? where, please???
Not in your average Genesis thread of course
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 17:30
I prefer DVD-Audio version with 5.1 surround sound and a bonus track "Lucky Man". Great listening experience IMO. I don't have BSS on CD. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 03:15
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You know, to tell the truth, I find the short tracks on "Fragile" by Yes to be even worse than the "Are you ready Eddy" type stuff and makes the album totally inconsistent. I know it's a really well loved album, but I consider those tracks filler and would rather listen to the classic ELP records. So to tell the truth, I really have no clue why Fragile is so high and no ELP records are in the top. ------------- 
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Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 04:02
Fragile is likely rated high because it is so familiar even to non-Prog fans; it is on par with Dark Side of the Moon in that category, almost to the point of being shoved down your throat. To me, an album like Trilogy is every bit as good as Fragile despite not being quite as familiar. ------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 11:19
You are a man of wise thoughts
..we need more of your kind here!.....Fragile :Perfect example
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 15:20
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I would guess if you put up a poll for each of the first five albums, and asked people to vote for their favorite or best song on each, it would become pretty clear why none of ELP's albums is in the top 100. I would virtually guarantee (unless the poll is rigged) that certain songs will receive 0 votes.
It is unfortunate that none of the albums are widely recognized as a masterpiece, but clearly, in spite of being one of the three or four best bands of the initial prog era (along with Yes, KC, Pink Floyd, and perhaps JT) ELP never had that one defining album (the first came closest) that was an instant classic.
However none of the above negates the FACT that Keith Emerson was the premier keyboard player of the era and pretty much did for the keyboard, particularly the Hammond, what Hendrix did for the guitar, i.e., introduce sonic possibilities not previously recognized or even conceived by lesser musicians.
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 15:25
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Heard Trilogy in its full form for the first time today... much more stunning than expected, though I'd heard 5 of the album's tracks previously, and the remastering job was really good. Might be in five territory. Don't agree about the highs being lower than their other albums, even if it ain't the debut. Edit for horrific error. |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 16:39
------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 16:41
Great band, and I love 'em but they couldn't WRITE the way Yes, Genesis, Tull, VdGG, and Kansas could. But boy could they PERFORM! ------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 16:53
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ELP have maybe one or two moments I really love, but the rest of it leaves me cold.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 19:19
I'm reading every review of ELP's studio albums (+Pictures), and instantly forgetting them after that. ------------- |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 20 2008 at 20:22
ELP'S BEST ALBUM:
Close ones would be Trilogy and ELP(debut). I was never keen of Tarkus, even though it has amazing innovating stuff, I must admit. Brain Salad Surgery as well, very innovating, but filler keeps coming.. Honorable mention to: Pirates, Fanfare for the Common Man and Black Moon(long version) |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: September 23 2008 at 08:39
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ELP didn't have filler on their albums. They had fun energetic songs that broke up the tension. Its sort of like going out for a gormet dinner. You invigorate your taste buds for new flavors by cleaning your palate.
In earlier times, if a strong course were served, a small dish of lemon sorbet would immediately follow it. The purpose, of course, was to clear the taste buds making them ready to experience the next bountiful dish without competition from lingering flavors.
For example, on Brain Salad Surgery... "Toccata" is musically perfect to me, very heavy, very moving and very well played. Then it takes "Still You Turn Me On" and "Benny" before your palate is cleaned enough to enjoy Karn Evil 9 from a clean perspective... no lingering flavors so to speak.
When I hear people refer to Are You Ready, Eddy... as filler, then I realize they just aren't gormet listeners!
 ELP Rules!!
------------- THIS IS ELP 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 23 2008 at 20:31
Prog Listeners aren't supposed to be gourmet listeneres 
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Posted By: febus
Date Posted: September 23 2008 at 20:54
Oooh! You are wrong , Pablo...
.............Prog is to music what Foie Gras or caviar are to food..I drink Champagne or a good rum or a great wine with my prog, ...............not diet coke. or Mcdo..they .don't go alongwith my Procol Harum, Roxy Music or ELP |
Posted By: gasone
Date Posted: September 27 2008 at 22:37
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"Prog" Archives my arse! Where is ELP? Has anyone anywhere on this board outside of this thread sat down and listened to the mix of BRAIN SALAD SURGERY DVD-AUDIO in true 96/24 ??? Not the Dolby Version mind you .....
Hello Toccata here is the best song hands down ever recorded....
No ELP in the top? Studio albums ??? Where is the legitamacy of this board??? ELP is big and bombastic and I like it that way.... take a pebble....
Best Covers???? Hello???? The penis in the throat on BSS?
And I like SEBTP genesis too... (Cinema show)
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: September 27 2008 at 23:53
So , you think ELP's legacy is disrespected? Do as me and write a 5 stars review of Brain Salad Surgery!! Slowly we´ll take it to the top.
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Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: September 28 2008 at 00:05
| Hey, ELP was way over the top, but seriously, at least they didn't dress up in stupid costumes and capes. Their music is actually fun to listen to for the most part, and the group actually had the talent to pull off what they did convincingly. Rock isn't a medium that can convincingly handle the complexity of classical music or the constant virtuosity of jazz. There's really no point in listening to a lot of the symphonic prog out there when you can just listen to classical music, not to say the two are even comparable. Rock has to ROCK to be fun to listen to, and ELP is one of the few prog bands that actually rocks a decent amount of the time. |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: September 28 2008 at 00:32
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That's true , at least Emo , did not put a Holiday on ice show in Wembley. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 28 2008 at 02:10
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you gotta eat |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: October 01 2008 at 08:09
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^ With Rick then, it was more of "you gotta drink".
ELP to me was the perfect progressive band. They had the best keyboardist.. that could not only play rings around all the others, but could compose actual music at the same time. Their drummer was classically trained, extremely energetic, and brought a different style to rock drumming, which to this day is hardly matched by any other drummer. And then there's the voice. One of the problems I have with prog bands today, is that the vocals.. and cheesy lyrics generally turn me off. Jon Anderson may have had the most recognizable voice in prog... but Greg Lake had the best voice in the business...
The voice is also the reason so many ELP tribute bands seem to have a hard time. You can get some reasonably good keyboardists... and some reasonably good drummers. But its extremely hard to find a bass player who can sing, much less sound anything remotely like Greg Lake.
Its a pity Greg doesn't do much anymore. I saw 5 or 6 of his solo shows around the UK in 2005. His voice isn't the same angelic voice of the 70s, but its improved immensely from his voice of the 90s.. and turned out to be some really wonderful concerts. ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: October 03 2008 at 17:29
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ELP must be the greatest band to walk on earth if they albums still manage to go beyond the 4 stars mark after reviews like the following: http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=9032">
 http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=9032 - OpethGuitarist (Joey Kelley) PROG REVIEWER  Bright and jolly, but ultimately tiresome.
After the darker Tarkus epic, ELP produce the much more maligned Trilogy, which seems to be closer to BSS in sound, and as some may know, I feel it's overrated rubbish. Too often I find bands being pardoned for their weak songs as a sign of the band having a "sense of humor". Strange that these ideas are never looked at in another way, in that, maybe others do have a sense of humor, perhaps we have a knack for good comedy, and think of the musicians as just plain bad comedians. Such is the case with ELP here again, with "The Sherrif" among others. It's just filler for ELP's quest to stray as much from songwriting as humanly possible, to in a strict sense, masturbate with their instruments. Take away the flair, the gaudy lights display and marketing of a big name, and we are left with little substance - little music. ELP are more than able to play their instruments, but as evidenced by the circus of Endless Enigma, the slow and rarely captivating From the Beginning, the "we need an end to this long solo effort" on Trilogy (which actually has a good piano section at the beginning), and the overextended march of Abaddons' Balero, one wonders if ELP ever had a concept for songwriting. Such is the case for how I see most of this record. If you're looking for virtuosos of the instruments, you will find much better elsewhere, and if you're looking for songwriting you'll find much better across almost all of prog. However, if you are looking for a big show with lots of lights, spazz, and a big name to market, Trilogy might be right for you. ELP's ratings should be calculated as it follows:
X=(n ratings/number of ratings)* ANTI ELP coeficient.
The coeficient must be >1 in order to balance all the flak. |
Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: December 13 2008 at 05:54
Couldn't agree more. Probably their best album - EVER! Though, I agree with the other poster who said "Tarkus" and "Trilogy" should be in the running too. The early 1970s - the best period for great ELP music!! |
Posted By: alerxst
Date Posted: December 15 2008 at 21:20
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Prior to reading this thread I had no idea how polarizing ELP was. Although I've been listening to prog for a good 4 years now, I haven't really strayed into the community. I had always thought that ELP was a highly revered band that was essentially untouchable outside of the other prog giants of the 70s. I then noticed that they didn't have a single album in the top 100. Sure they have filler (perfect example is most of Tarkus's B side) but that doesn't retract from the fact that the rest of the album is great, with the title track being a masterpiece. The 5 star rating is meant to be given out to "essential" albums that can be considered a "masterpiece of progressive music." The rating is not exclusive for flawless pieces of art but that doesn't mean it should be thrown around. There are plenty of albums on the Top 100 that I love and consider sublime. Yet when I get around to giving them an actual review + rating, I will not give them 5 stars because they are either not essential or masterpieces of progressive music. |
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: December 16 2008 at 04:16
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I saw ELP at Wembley in 1974. My over riding memory is one of thinking 'What the hell am I doing here'?
------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: December 16 2008 at 04:28
You should be thinking "I am a very lucky so and so". Many people on PA would have given their right arm to see ELP in their prime. I'll bet that was a magical show.
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Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: December 16 2008 at 04:37
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Tarkus epic is one of the best ever... but the rest of their discography doesn't do much to me.... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: December 16 2008 at 14:39
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ELP were great, why are they so hated everywhere???
------------- 
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: December 16 2008 at 14:59
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be........... ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 16 2008 at 18:20
I am one of them , probably my right arm is not enough. But I need my left one to put Brain Salad Surgery!!
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 16 2008 at 18:28
I don't know since I didn't live in the 70's. But almost everyone says they were hated because of their classical reinterpretations. Also they were hated bacause Emerson knew how to put a great show . It's weird since the reasons that justify their hatred are the ones that the music press used for most prog rock bands. But since ELP played the most "in your face" style of prog they got most of the flak.
I laugh when the experts say that ELP was the only band among the big ones from the 70's that left no influence. What about italian and japanese prog then??? Also there are many bands from our country that are heavily influenced by ELP
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 02:41
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It's interesting - on the one hand, you have prog metal fans feeling persecuted because the rest of the prog crowd has such a lowly opinion of metal. On the other hand, one of the giants of prog doesn't make the top 100. But the reason for that is not that bonafide prog classics like Fragile or SEBTP are overrated - they deserve all the praise they get. Nor is it because as crimson87, the anti-metalhead - puts it, metalheads don't get ELP or whatever. I am a metalhead and I love ELP alright. Rather, I would ask what the hell are - say - Camel's albums doing so high up in the rankings. Three of Camel's classic albums make the top 20 of Symphonic prog and that's a real stretch. Don't get me wrong, I think Camel are a good band too but I am afraid they are becoming sort of a gateway band and end up getting more than their fair share of appreciation. So if ELP is well out of the top 100, it's not any fault of us Genesis fans or that of metalheads , it's the overrating of less deserving bands that's crowded out the top 100. Myself, I love the s/t, Tarkus and BSS. I am lukewarm to Trilogy and Pictures at an exhibition but that's alright, I don't like each and every album of my favourite bands in general so I am not disappointed at that. |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 03:25
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I know I'm a late-comer to this thread, but to hear that they are not in the top 100 is just ludicrous. They are easily among the top 5 most prominent bands of the genre. The were also one of the top-grossing touring bands of the 70's, "Karn Evil 9" might be one of the most commercially successful prog songs ever released, and "Lucky Man" virtually put the Moog synthesizer on the map. I know they had some odd moments, especially later in their career, but those are more than made up for by Tarkus, Trilogy, Brain Salad, ELP, and "Welcome Back...". I think one of the most important facets of ELP was that they were the only prog band to dare to be "wild" on stage. You didn't just hear music at an ELP concert, you got a rock concert... ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 06:53
Well I can understand why some people hereabouts might think that. But to me it was all about show and no depth. I was only 15 for a start and was surrounded by old people (They must have been mid 20's at least!) with beards and denim. No fun at allreally. ELP were. I'm sad to say and wish in no way to insult anyone here, the worst excess of over blown 70's self indulgent drivel. A good enough reason on their own (along with Yes) for the Sex Pistols to form. ------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 13:43
That makes me wanna be there more!!!!!
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 14:00
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After reading thru most of this thread, I remember why I don't come here that often anymore. First it was all the fighting about allowing Tool, Radiohead, DreamTheater.. etc. into progarchives, then it was all the non-proggy types bashing ELP.
I'm sorry, but evidently if you don't like ELP, you're really not progressive music fans. ELP were and still are the definition of prog rock. All the whining about Benny and Jeremy being filler and bringing the albums down.... bullocks!! Thats what makes it progressive... it was ecletic, bombastic... full of life and ... Fun.
Tool, Porcupine Tree, Radiohead.... they ain't prog. Dream Theater... maybe once in a while when they let Jordan at it... otherwise, they ain't prog either.
And I say that knowing that Porcupine Tree is probably now my favorite band... but that doesn't make them prog. And none of them are the musicians that ELP were... ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 14:14
Yeah , I probably did one extra bashing against prog metal in the process. But when I first came to PA and looked at the top symphonic albums list I could not believe it. Instead you got bands like Bacamarte , which are good but lets face it , their music it's pretty derivative apart from the exotic enchant brazilian female vocals and some native rythms may have.
And Camel... they sure are one of the best prog bands of the 70's if you don't count the classic ones. Morover , they managed to release very good stuff when prog was way past it's prime such as Nude , or Dust and Dreams. But to include 2 or 3 albums among the landmarks of 70's prog it's a bit too much.
The difference in rating between ELP best albums and Camel's may be that of 4 or 5 prog reviewers ratings , it's not that much.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 14:52
Plenty of room for ELP, Radiohead, and Porcupine Tree in my prog universe. Haven't explored the others, so can't really comment. ELP put out some really good albums early on and then kind of disentigrated. Damn shame, but I like what they did. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 15:11
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^ I love PT and Radiohead also... but they aren't in my prog universe. And having to create a prog genre for them just to fit them in... is just sort of ridiculous. ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 15:15
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Oh and most likely if ELP had had a lead guitarist like David Gilmour, Steve Howe, Steve Hackett.. etc. and had not been so keyboard heavy... there wouldn't be so much bashing going on. Or you wouldn't hear that the music "didn't age" that well. ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 15:22
Hey, one of the things I really liked about ELP was the dominant keyboards. And I've become wary of these endless debates about what is and what isn't prog. Way back in late '70's it seemed to just be about what was good music and what you didn't like.  I became a zombie prog pod person of sorts. I might still be one.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: December 18 2008 at 12:35
| To deny the great talent of ELP is to tear out some of the roots of progressive rock, comparing them to genesis and yes is ridiculous, all these bands were wonderful in their own special ways, I suspect some people who bash ELP do not like them, that is okay, their legacy is rock solid |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 00:21
I quite agree, I have heard many complaints about how 70s prog was too keyboard-centric. Well, that's what I like most about that phase, it gives it a different appeal from most rock-based music in general which is guitar-oriented. And ELP took it to the extreme. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 14:47
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I recently purchased the ELP DVD compilation called Beyond the Beginning. It is really kind of funny ("funny strange" not "funny ha ha") to watch because the video coverage spans their entire careers. I saw ELP a few times live during the 90's and I picture Greg Lake's voice as fitting the older Greg Lake of the 90's. Watching the video and hearing that voice come from the young kid Greg Lake, it kind of looks funny. I suppose that it is probably a matter of what you are used to, but this observation leads me to think that he had a very mature voice when he was younger, and that he grew into that voice as it seems to match his age now. Any thoughts? ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 15:17
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Sounds like an interesting DVD. I've got Live at the Royal Albert Hall Pictures at an Exhibition The Works Orchestral Tour/The Manticore Special No thoughts on Lakes voice though. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 15:42
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I also got it , although i would had liked a full version of "Tarkus". The 5 hour material is a must for any ELP fan.
I also have Pictures... and Masters from the Vaults which is a 40 minute powerful performance by the band at the very beginning of their career.
Startibastfast , one of the Tarkus versions is from Royal Albert Hall in 1992 , but it's cut before Battlefield. Your DVD has the full version??
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Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 18:21
That's a great DVD. I actually became an ELP fan last year thanks to that DVD, before I used to listen to Brain salad surgery and Trilogy but have not really got into them until then. About Greg's voice I agree it sounded very mature for such a young kid. But all I know is it really changed a lot, I still like it but sometimes I miss the sound of his 70's voice. -------------
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 18:42
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To the original point of this thread, I would put ELP's debut or Trilogy in the top 10. I'm not a big fan of ELP's debut, but man! That's INNOVATION MANN!! Too much Court, but where's ELP's debut!! And well Trilogy, yeah it's my fave ELP album, and I think it's their most consistent album. Brain Salad Surgery and Tarkus have the thundering epics, but also have some lower points IMO. I can't understand why people bash their overblowing, etc, etc stuff, and like Prog. I mean Prog is unique for THOSE qualities and more, but those qualities are one of the main characteristics of Prog IMHO. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 19:08
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One of ELP's great characteristics is that they had no guitarist (yeah, they let Lake play a little now and then). One of the points of ELP was that a keyboard-driven rock band could be better than any guitar-driven band. I'm no biographical historian, but I'd wager much of E's motivation was to prove that the guitar, as a primary instrument, was unnecessary. I'd say he succeeded. |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 19:27
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I think the key in ELP's music is that it's very uplifting. They always put me in a good mood even with their weaker stuff. I can't understand why they are labeled as a cold band. In my opinion I think ELP was the only prog band of the 70's ( outside of heavy prog) for which you could say : They Rock!!
But it's all a matter of taste. Now SEBTP , that's coldness to me. Neither the moonlight knight nor firth of filth do nothing for me.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 22:39
What about Gentle Giant? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 06:29
I'm honestly not sure and embarrassed to admit it. I suspect it's even more abbreviated, 9:17 minutes. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 08:08
While I was typing my answer I thought of " The boys in the band"
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Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 09:34
I read an interview with Emerson about his early days in bands. He said he got frustrated being stuck at the back wih his immobile keyboard while the exhibitionist up front with the guitar got all the attention. After Davy O'List left the Nice apparently the only guitarists he wanted to work with were Steve Howe and Jimi Hendrix. Howe came to audition for The Nice and they begged him to join but he decided to stay with his own band (think it must have been Bodast at the time). A real shame as I'd love to have heard what Emerson and Howe could have come up with playing together at their peak. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 10:25
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Steve Howe's band at that time must have been Tomorrow I'd guess, who made a wonderful psych' LP, including the classic 'My White Bicycle' of course. He made the right decision.
------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 19:15
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I'm pretty sure Tomorrow had broken up by mid-1968 and Howe had formed Bodast, so I think he would have been with them when he auditioned for The Nice. Bodast did some great tracks anyway, especially Nether Street (the precursor of Wurm from Starship Trouper) which features some truly awesome Howe guitar work. Howe and Emerson (along with Jan Akkerman) are my favourite prog instrumentalists so I really would have loved to have heard 'em playing together. But we should of course be grateful for what we have, rather than wishing for what might have been.... ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 07:04
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Had to bump this thread.
I got Brain Salad Surgery on cd for Christmas, previously only had it on vinyl and hadn't heard it for a few years. You know the scenario, it's one of those albums that you know is a classic, you've just not listened to it much recently. You know, to me it sounds better than ever, and I can't believe how under-appreciated it is.
Well, enough is enough. Brain Salad Surgery is a classic. How can this be averaging little over 4 stars? It's a joke, this is every bit as good as Selling England and CTTE and a damn sight better than TAAB. So, I will do my bit, and I will be providing a 5-star review for this masterpiece. Whether this will make much difference I don't know as I'm non-collab, reviewer etc.
If this album doesn't warrant 5 stars, then what does?
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Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: January 02 2009 at 09:16
Job done
 .5-Star review now posted.
Clappies anybody?
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Posted By: visitor2035
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 18:48
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The problem with ELP was that they didn't take themselves seriously. They played bombastic over the top pretentious music that many people wanted. Me included.
Steve Howe stated that Yes took themselves to seriously, and i bet their albums are all over the top 100. Horses for courses...but ELP did more for prog than any other band, and also started stadium rock. Too many people don't like ELP because they didn't get it. |
Posted By: PROGMONSTER2008
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 19:48
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I'm over ELP. The first 3 albums were cool without being brilliant. But I only like a few songs since then. Brain Salad surgery only seemed to have about 15 minutes of quality to my ears ------------- Jazz/Classical Rock(70's style prog/fusion). Lots of prog keys and melodies(all original ideas) http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008 |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 20:01
here's some from me ..now if only the Armadillo would get as much love   |
Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 20:29
Hah! Have you heard Ayreon??? It's all four of those... and I don't really like it. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 20:53
Since I don't hear much metal I never thought of that one but you ' re right V The New mytholgy suite by Symphony X is BIG LOUD BOMBASTIC AND OVERBLOWN. And I can't even stand that cheesy intro.
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Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 06:33
| I love ELP. Love may be blind but it is not deaf. |
Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 17:59
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The top three bands were! YES
ELP
PINK FLOYD
There was never a big five. Genesis's fame came later in the 80's!
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Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:37
You are Charles Shaar Murray and I claim my five pounds! ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: tony kayes headband
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 01:31
| I was watching the Pictures At An Exhibition DVD yesterday thinking to myself,"Yeah,Keith.Play that muhfuggin' Moog!!". |
Posted By: Adams Bolero
Date Posted: January 18 2009 at 17:30
| ELP were marvelous despite there overindulgence.There music has not been matched since its just a pity greg lakes beautiful voice was underused. |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 14:18
| I love Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, and definitely consider them one of my favorite bands. But come on...Brain Salad Surgerey? I think the S/T, Tarkus, Trilogy, and Pictures are all so much better. By time they got to Brain Salad Surgerey I feel that they had lost the tightness that they originally had. It's like Yes...they became way too self indulgent and just started doing things just for the sake of showing that they are capable. |
Posted By: Drummerboy
Date Posted: January 21 2009 at 15:07
| For sheer technical virtuosity I really don't think any other band can match them, person for person. What they did with all that talent can sometimes be questioned....For example I don't think they really had very much to say, lyrics-wise, which is (at least partly) why they brought in help for that. Yes, some of it was self-indulgent as has been noted. But when their first album came out, it really did break new ground, in terms of approach, influences, technique, you name it. "Take a Pebble" still sends chills down my spine. Carl Palmer played in a unique way, where the drums were instruments themselves, rather than beat-keepers, as had been the case. They continued to experiment and actively reached across from the prog world towards mainstream rock (which is where some of the criticism comes in, maybe) and were among the very top headliners of their day. BSS was the culmination of their work, then things became more hit-or-miss. But there is no way to deny their place aong the real giants in the pantheon. (BTW I also liked Genesis!) |
Posted By: threefates
Date Posted: January 29 2009 at 14:29
Uhh... maybe you should listen to Toccata again! ------------- THIS IS ELP
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: January 29 2009 at 14:46
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I like a lot ELP !!! -------------  |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: March 18 2009 at 13:20
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Do you know if there is avilable a record like: "The Royal Philarmonic orchestra plays ELP"? (Invented title) I know Queen and Pink Floyd had their songs covered by an orchestra.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 18 2009 at 13:23
I've got a few of those orchestra covers prog band albums. Seem like there is no point for that when it comes to ELP. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 05:08
| Thank heavens you're still here threefates - I thought you had left us! |
Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 05:15
| I think this thread is a good idea. If I had the requisite IT knowledge, I would start an 'official' ELP discussion website. ELP/ Yes are at the pinnacle of progressive rock and should feature prominently in a website purporting to be a prog(ressive rock) archive. |
Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 05:20
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Re the 'The Royal Philarmonic orchestra plays ELP', there was a covers album featuring Glenn Hughes. I cannot remember the title and have never heard the album, but I would expect it to be really good (I do not think it was orchestral). |
Posted By: Roj
Date Posted: March 24 2009 at 04:06
For me, Brain Salad Surgery is one of THE greatest prog albums of them all. The band were as tight as the proverbial duck's backside, right at the top of their game. It has brilliant material, it's pompous, overblown, everything. One of prog's pinnacles.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 24 2009 at 04:21
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Brain Salad is sheer inspiration.. that said, I wouldn't really call ELP tight, particularly compared to other prog bands, but that was part of the fun |
Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: March 24 2009 at 20:56
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Just thought I'd chime in. Well I really love ELP but I have trouble with their albums, particularly which one is my favorite. I posted elsewhere that I liked Trilogy the best and I'll stand by that now. I still enjoy their other early albums and I guess its a matter of their strength that I have trouble deciding which is best. I too enjoy their 'sloppiness' and marvel at the fact that 3 musicians can do so much. Anyway, happy listening! ------------- 
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Posted By: Eapo_q42
Date Posted: March 24 2009 at 21:44
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For the record, before I say any of this, let me state: i DO own and enjoy ELP albums. I have their S/T, Pictures at an exhibition, tarkus, trilogy and BSS. That said, even though I always enjoy them, I do rank them below the other great bands. I would rank them below Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Van Der Graaf Generator....and maybe a few others. Now, that's not really an insult to ELP so much as a compliment to all the others. But really, being ranked below those bands is not so bad, because they're all so amazing. Anyway, my real point here is that a lot of people say they dislike ELP because of the pomp and bloatedness. Quite a few have already said so in this thread. I don't really think that's the case, for me. I love pomp. I will repeatedly listen to Journey To The Centre Of The Earth, for example. For me, it's just their sound. Too heavily based on Emersons various keys, for one thing. Not enough guitar, in general, for another. Another problem is Greg Lake. He's a fantastic singer, technically, but sometimes I find him to be a boring vocalist, even though he can hit every note every time. So what does it come down to? Great composition, great instrumental skills, average overall "sound". That's just me, but I have friends who feel the same way. Ultimately, it's this issue of "sound" that stops them from being an immortal band, and ensures they always remain as a "damn good" band in my opinion. |
Posted By: Drummerboy
Date Posted: March 25 2009 at 07:18
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Interesting. Yes, keyboards do dominate guitar. But a key part of their sound, one that helps really set them apart is Palmer's drums. They function more as another instrument than the role of drums in almost any other band, the esteemed Bill Bruford included. Palmer really took it to a new level of integrating the drums into the music, making his leg of the stool just as strong as the others.
BTW, the original purpose of the thread, to get BSS the recognition it deserves, is worthy! |