Sarah Palin: A Maggie Thatcher for America
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Topic: Sarah Palin: A Maggie Thatcher for America
Posted By: Blacksword
Subject: Sarah Palin: A Maggie Thatcher for America
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 09:45
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Follwing a tubthumping speech in St Paul, having accepted her vice presidential nomination, Sarah Palin has gone on to outline her vision for the state for which she is governor.
John McCains running mate may be governor of a vast beautiful wilderness, but she is clearly alligned to the oil industry. She is in fact sueing the Bush admin (that well renowned green lobby, and forefront of Americas 'loony left') for its wishy washy tree hugging policies on protecting the polar bear; a policy which she believes will jeapordize any opportunity to mine Alaska for it's natural resources.. Heralded by some in her party as a modern Maggie Thatcher (as if that is some kind of accolade) will America elect itself a republican government that will make the Bush admin look like the Green Party, or will America opt for this elusive 'change' that Obama frequently promises?? And on the question of Alaska, is it time to start drilling? Palins reasoning is, that if it's in the ground, there is no point in letting it just sit there, and of course the US coud probably do with becoming more self sufficient with it's oil provision?? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/palin-the-real-scandal-920803.html - Drill baby Drill!! |
Replies:
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 10:31
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http://impalin.com/impalin/ - http://impalin.com/impalin/ The Jon Stewart video currently on the front page (today) spells it out perfectly. And you are correct. This ticket will make Bush/Cheney look like the Green Party. It is reckless, and it turns out that McCain, not Obama, was the one to put an election above the country's interest. "Country First" my ass. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 10:41
very ...very true... posted a blog comment to that effect in the VP thread.. simple and pure politics... does he REALLY think she is qualified to speak on any of these important matters. Like Obama or not.. he has a hell of a lot more experience regarding foreign affaris... in fact more than say... W in 2000. We saw that where that got us... but talking to the wall here... hopefully the 'sensible middle' .. who decide these elections.. not me on the left. .or our friends on the right will see that this was a bad move potentially for our country.. hopefully people here can still think.. and vote responsibly. McCAIN is not 50 years old... there is a better than average chance he might not live through a first term. Oh well... let's hope America is awake at the wheel. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Finnforest wrote:Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 10:57
Absolutely. That Jon Stewart video is almost painful to watch. The double standards are beyond belief. The US and indeed, the world can only hope that McCain and Palin are completely out of touch with the electorate, and what people want in the US. Will people still vote on a right wing 'oil' manifesto, or is there really a hunger for genuine change in the US? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 11:06
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hahhaha.. no wonder they won't let reporters near her.. first question out of my mouth if I had the chance.. .tell me the two major branchs of Islam... won't even ask her to explain the differences... what a joke.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 11:22
I'm pretty sure she would know that. She's being constantly prepped for the debate with Biden so she doesn't look like a fool, and I think they would cover that. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 11:24
seems Bush missed that briefing before he invaded Iraq..... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 12:03
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Regarding the title of this thread: that is an insult to Maggie Thatcher (and I'm not a Thatcher fanboy). More info on Ms. Hockey Mom: About Sarah Palin: an e-mail from Wasilla A suburban Anchorage homemaker and activist — who once did battle with the Alaska governor when Palin was mayor — recounts what she knows of Palin's history. By Anne Kilkenny Posted on September 2, 2008. Printed on September 6, 2008. http://www.crosscut.com/2008-election/17341/ - http://www.crosscut.com/2008-election/17341/ Editor's note: The writer is a homemaker and education advocate in Wasilla, Alaska. Late last week, Anne Kilkenny penned an e-mail for her friends about vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, whom she personally knows, that has since circulated across comment forums and blogs nationwide. Here is her e-mail in its entirety, posted with her permission. I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Gov. Sarah Palin since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first-name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99 percent of the residents of the city. She is enormously popular; in every way she's like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice for vice president and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe." It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months. She is "pro-life." She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved here; Trig is her baby. She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym. She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit. Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin's kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her lifestyle ever been anything like that of native Alaskans. Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters. She's smart. Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time) and less than two years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents. During her mayoral administration, most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings, which had given rise to a recall campaign. Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her six years as mayor, she increased general government expenditures by more than 33 percent. During those same six years, the amount of taxes collected by the city increased by 38 percent. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax, which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefitted large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents. The huge increases in tax revenue during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list, though — borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt but left it with indebtedness of more than $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? Or a new library? No. $1 million for a park. $15 million-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex, which she rushed through, on a piece of property that the city didn't even have clear title to. That was still in litigation seven years later — to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5 million for road projects that could have been done in five to seven years without any borrowing. While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once. These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city. As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as governor Sarah proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state. In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenue: Spend today's surplus, borrow for needs. She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits but on the basis of who proposed them. While Sarah was mayor of Wasilla, she tried to fire our highly respected city librarian because the librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the city librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the librarian are on her enemies list to this day. Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys." Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the city and as governor, she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal — loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the state's top cop. As mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's police chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a state trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than two dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support. She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town, introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal city administrator; even people who didn't like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness. Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her. When then-Gov. Frank Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission — one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil and gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job, which paid $122,400 a year, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this commission (who was also the state chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys' club," when she dramatically quit, exposing this man's ethics violations (for which he was fined). As mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Sen. Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to. As governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects — which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance — but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork." She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The state party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative. Around Wasilla, there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her. As governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum. Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would have either protected salmon streams from pollution from mines or tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on whom you listen to). She has pushed the state's lawsuit against the Department of the Interior's decision to list polar bears as a threatened species. McCain is the oldest person to ever run for president; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being president. There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she. However, there are a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it. Claim vs. Fact * "Hockey mom": True for a few years * "PTA mom": True years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since * "NRA supporter": Absolutely true * Social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, but vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional). * Pro-creationism: Mixed. Supports it, but did nothing as governor to promote it. * "Pro-life": Mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby but declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation. * "Experienced": Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000. * Political maverick: Not at all. * Gutsy: Absolutely! * Open and transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions. * Has a developed philosophy of public policy: No. * "A Greenie": No. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR. * Fiscal conservative: Not by my definition! * Pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards. * Pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents * Pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla's history. * Pro-labor/pro-union: No. Just because her husband works union doesn't make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union. Why am I writing this? First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name, you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations. Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "bad things happen when good people stay silent." Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings. Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that's life. Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the city librarian against Sarah's attempt at censorship. Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable. Caveats: I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending and taxation two years ago (when Palin was running for governor) from information supplied to me by the finance director of the City of Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: Did I adjust for inflation? For population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall — they are swamped. So I can't verify my numbers. You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000" up to 9,000. The day Palin's selection was announced, a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-1990s. Anne Kilkenny is a homemaker and education advocate in Wasilla, Alaska. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 12:10
| Everyday I learn more about what an awful person she is. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 12:58
| She reminds me of Michael Palin, so she can't be absolutely evil. Or can she? |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 22:08
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 22:13
Time will tell if even this was the case - I think they would have an easier time winning with Clinton, just my opinion. |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 22:17
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 22:49
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 22:52
| That "pro-creationism" is a measure of how "conservative" one is is just beyond sad. I know plenty of people far more conservative than I am that don't believe any of that nonsense. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 22:52
How so? He wasn't picked by a single person like Palin. He won a very long and tough primary fight, selected by the voters. If you are saying you think the voters voted for him based on electability only, I'd say some did, but not all. And those who did may well have been wrong. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 22:56
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 22:58
I just don't understand all this frothing at the mouth from the liberals/Democrats about Palin. Do they think they're actually going to lose this election?  |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 23:00
Agreed there if she's running for Senate, Governor, etc....But I think a P/VP candidate needs lots of scrutiny because that person will control the nuclear arsenal. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 23:04
Well, I'm not a "liberal" on all issues, but to answer your question, Yes I think Obama will lose. Bush won twice. We're gluttons for punishment apparently. The frothing at the mouth is justified when you consider this person could control the military and be a complete fluff. If that's not something to be concerned about, frankly, what the F is? ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 23:07
Well, check out state by state polling, maybe you'll feel better. Here's a current summary from usaelectionpolls.com. Here is a list of the 15 battleground states as derived from the poll of polls average in each state. But the results we show you here are from the latest poll per state. We have left off Pennsylvania because Obama has been comfortably ahead in PA for a while -- things could change though. At least this gives you a synopsis of where things stand at this point. Quite clear from our polls and the majority of the other polling aggregate sites that this is Obama's election to lose. Even when McCain grabs most of the battleground states, Obama is still very competitive. For example, on Blumenthal's website, the Democrats have 214 electoral votes strongly in their corner with another 46 electoral votes leaning their way. That is a total of 260 electoral votes, just 10 shy of the presidency. That 260 number is identical on Tannenbaum's website despite the fact that their definition of strong and weak democratic states are different. I say that because if Obama is able to get that 260 number to over 270, the results from these battleground states would effectively be a moot point. Who cares how the battleground states go when we already know Obama would win without them, right? |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 23:14
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Yes my friend, but these polls were mostly before the RNC, right? These numbers are likely to change with the Palin energy I would suspect.
------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 23:35
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 23:41
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 23:44
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 06 2008 at 23:53
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 00:07
I don't. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 02:21
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lol, Palin wtf....
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 02:55
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Good speaker? She is shrill, even more shrill than Hillary. She's shrillary.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 02:57
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The more and more I read about this Sarah Palin lady, the more I do a double take as in "this person's for real?"... and that is NOT a compliment.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 08:04
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 08:07
Not a bad site. First time I heard of it. People might also want to check out this one: http://www.electoral-vote.com/ - http://www.electoral-vote.com/ It's a little more user friendly. Sarah's such a great pic she has no need to expose herself to tough questions. "The real problem is she might say something intentionally that she really and truly believes (like victims of rape should be forced to bear their rapist's child) and this will shock the viewers. It will be interesting to see how long Palin can avoid giving interviews and whether the media starts to point out this behavior." The Votemaster at the site above. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13208.html - http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13208.html Those of you on the other side of the political spectrum might enjoy this (also from the Votemaster): "Biden's Son and Brother SuedYesterday we had a story about John McCain's son being on the board of a bank being shut down by state and federal authorities. Legal difficulties are apparently bipartisan. Joe Biden's son, Hunter, and Biden's brother James are involved in a business dispute with a former partner of theirs. They are accused of defrauding their former partner. The Bidens say that the partner defrauded them by misrepresenting his experience in the hedge fund industry. Each side is suing the other. More http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/Arkansas2008082302200.html - here ." |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 08:14
yep... nice site.... sort of shows clearly what some have said.. this is Obama's election to lose... he can lose Ohio and still win the election. I've read they don't want to take that chance.. but is a nice cushion to have. Do think Virginia is going to go Democratic this time ... which gives him even more. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 08:25
Hmm, looking at the map this morning, Virginia will be one of the battleground states for sure. And the usual characters, Ohio and Florida. Thank God it will all be over soon.  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 08:46
yep... Obama is quite popular here in the suburbs... which as you know is why this state has been sliding toward the blue column for some time... with get out the vote drives in the tidewater and Richmond area.... plus a VERY popular ex-governor Mark Warner running for Senate. It might be close.. but you can't ignore the trends... this state have voted Democratic the last few major elections. See it going blue...  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 08:52
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the interesting state to watch... my old home... North Carolina... had not idea Brian until I read through that site you posted that Libby Dole was in such a dogfight.. that is another state whose demographics are changing.. for the blue... remember not being able to go 50ft in the Raleigh Durham area without tripping on a Long Island or Jersey accent.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: weetabix
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 09:04
| That is one wild bird, there must be a sex tape somewhere. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 09:48
That's actually the site I was looking for initially, just forgot what it was called. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 09:51
| You can also see from the site Slart posted that the entire government will be solidly Democratic in 2009, and probably will be for many years, until the public gets tired of them and starts voting Republican again. And thus the cycle continues. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 10:12
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I have to wonder if there will be any tectonic shifts to come (if the dems become dominant for a few years as you predict) like when the racists southern democrats all defected to the Republican party? Took them a while to get over Lincoln. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 13:10
 Here's a fun site it's called the Skeleton closet: http://www.realchange.org/ - http://www.realchange.org/ Unfortunately no dirt if you've only run for the vice office. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 13:19
nice... great choice for VP John.. as if this country hasn't lost enough respect world-wide. Did someone say out of touch... oh yeah... maybe a time or two. Nothing like being the punchline of a joke here. Wonder how this plays outside the states. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 03:28
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As a NOVA native, I'm sure this area will go Obama (plenty of signs for him in the yards), but even with the recent elections of democrats into office in VA, I don't know if the entire state will be blue for this one. Richmond and more especially NOVA run this state..as far as the big things like population and economics. The rest is all pretty typical southern setting.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 14:24
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Great... another Christian fanatic ... just what we need.,.. when the world is advancing towards more rational paths, the most powerful copuntry will still be vice-ruled by a person that believes in abstinence as the ONLY legitimate birth control policy.... sigh.... ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 16:56
 Funny thing is, isn't her family a perfect example that abstinence education doesn't work?  I'm still waiting for an October surprise where she gets replaced with Michael Palin.   Bush with lipstick? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:13
Her family is an example that people make mistakes. No type of "sex-ed" works, if by "work" you mean have rate of teen pregnancies go to zero. I support have any and all information about birth control available to young people, but the problem is telling them things they don't want to hear - they should ask themselves if they're ready for all the consequences implied with sex. |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 18:25
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 18:29
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A question for all
If Palin gets the job, should Cheney pass his hunting riffle on to her?
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 18:56
I wouldn't want to be his daughter's future husband when that happens.... -------------
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 19:23
We're going by the friggin' Enquirer now? Keep in mind that this is politics. If you're going to explore every crease and crevice, then rest assure that there are little deals cut in dark rooms on the other side, too. E ------------- 
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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 20:47
She's most likely a better shot than Cheney.
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 21:29
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Speaking about Palin and hunting, just saw this on youtube..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGPFPBmzRrQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGPFPBmzRrQ
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 21:38
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I was about to say about the Enquirer might as well go to Weekly World News where she apparently raped an alien bat ninja ------------- 
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 08 2008 at 23:53
...and did she spawn any alien bat ninja babies that looked a lot like... Enquiring minds want to know.  E -------------
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 00:08
The world really needs more religious fundamentalists in power right now. 
Electing such medieval-minded folks is also really good for America's reputation on the world stage....
Yep, we gots the Taliban, the cheery, life-affirming Iranian theocracy, and the gun-totin', Bible-thumpin corporations-big-oil-and-arms-industry-sponsored Republican party....
YEEEE HAAAHHH!!! Gimmie that ol' time religion!
Armageddon the hell out of here!
 I think good ol' Frank Z said it best:
You can't run a country
By a book of religion Not by a heap Or a lump or a smidgeon Of foolish rules Of ancient date Designed to make You all feel great While you fold, spindle And mutilate Those unbelievers From a neighboring state .... Hey, we cant really be dumb If were just following God's orders Hey, let's get serious... God knows what he's doin He wrote this book here An the book says: He made us all to be just like him, So... If we're dumb... Then God is dumb... (an maybe even a little ugly on the side) (From "Dumb All Over")
Gimmie half a dozen for the hotel room! Aiiieeee!
Hey, my American cousins: wake up and smell the 21st Century! You want to be an absolute magnet for terrorists and war? Just keep voting in right wing religious fanatics who are "guided" by an invisible, silent supernatural being and a two thousand year old book of borrowed mythology, superstition, and deranged schizo "revelation."
 Time to take the ol' "separation of church and state" thingy a little more to heart, methinks....
 Did you know Satan put the cave men's bones there? What a mischievous fellow! (Of course, God LET him do that, the better to send people like me to hell for an eternity of torture, for the unspeakable crime of using my brain, and for being more inclined to accept concrete, rational and scientific evidence over blind faith, supposition, wishful thinking, and a self-perpetuating system for brainwashing the masses and keeping the "right" power structure at the top. Yes, I'm so evil.)
I believe that if folks who are NOT born-again Christians vote for this silly woman anyway, then they deserve what they get -- but does the rest of the world deserve yet another such US government? If you would elect a religious fundamentalist (without being one yourself), then I honestly think unquestioning, absolute party loyalty has gotten WAY too strong in the USA. Would you vote for any jackass wearing a Republican button?
(Oh yeah -- the geriatric war hero McCain was tortured. Can you say "Christ figure," boys and girls?)
Talk about a polarized electorate -- I honestly fear America may well be headed for another civil war in the future. I think the two-party system leaves a LOT to be desired!
Have you ever read this hard-hitting, thought-provoking Kurt Vonnegut essay about American politics and religion? I posted a link to it back when he died, but I think it's more timely now than ever:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/cold_turkey/ - http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/cold_turkey/
But hey, let's not talk about religion or politics -- let alone what happens when they 'get in bed together," as it were.
 PARTY on... ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 00:43
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^^Absolute lunacy. Sorry, but it is. Too bad that this drivel is the last thing I have to read before going to bed.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 00:53
Well, you could always read your Bible -- or your Exxon shareholder's quarterly statements...I don't think it's lunacy, of course.
I do think mixing religious fundamentalism and politics is asking for trouble (if not sheer lunacy), however.
I think you should all just put Tom Cruise in charge. He KNOWS he's the only one who can help...
Please feel free to disagree.
Sleep tight! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 01:36
Or on the other side of the coin we could have more atheistic leaders like Vladamir Putin and Hu Jintao. Be careful for what you wish .------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 01:47
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^ Does it have to be one or the other extreme, Garion? Did I imply that? I really don't like extremists, on either end of the religious/political spectrum.
(& Obama is a Christian, is he not? America would NEVER elect an admitted athiest -- or agnostic -- no fear. Professing Christianity is all but required.)
I'm agnostic, BTW. I admit there could be a supreme being/force, a "creator," but I have no use for man's various cults, er, I mean religions. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 01:58
Agnosticism is gnarly, man.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 02:25
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Ever hear this guy?
(Warning: strong language, and "in your face" anti-religious (not just anti-Christian) stance.
Here is Pat Condell on the USA & "born again" religious/political zealotry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f01IBDoZGg&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f01IBDoZGg&feature=related
(I DID NOT listen to that before writing my earlier post, BTW.)
And here he is directly addressing Osama Bin Laden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8ZGHHvuYk&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8ZGHHvuYk&feature=related
He's got TONS of such vids on You Tube, if you're interested. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: jplanet
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 02:34
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I like his videos, he's got a great delivery. You might enjoy this, too: http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card - http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card Edit: Oops, I think this video was posted earlier in the thread. So nice, we had to post it twice! ------------- https://www.facebook.com/ShadowCircus/" rel="nofollow - ..::welcome to the shadow circus::.. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 02:36
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Elections are funny things - if you had Nelson Mandela as Prime Minister or Presidential candidate with Mother Teresa as his running mate their reputations would be ripped to shreds by the media in days.
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 05:43
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Deleted Post.
I had a rant, but now I can't be bothered any more.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 08:14
"people make mistakes" is quite the understatement: "WTF?!!! She is totally underage and obviously drinking alcohol.
When will we see these pictures on FIXED News?
Especially the one with Penisboy
And speaking of Nazis, that last photo of Bristol
and her girl pal...
I can't wait to hear the story about that on Handjob and Colmes tonite. Keep on swinging that hammer!Ace in NY " On Bartcop.com (no relation to SlartiBartfast) ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 08:22
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 09:02
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^ Point taken IVNORD -- I guess Obama just doesn't scare me (whereas Armageddon-craving religious fundamentalists at the reins of huge military machines do), and in any case, as a Canadian, I cannot vote in US elections, of course.
I take an interest here because US politics affects me and everyone else on earth, and because, well, this election IS the most interesting one I've watched in quite some time. I also think humanity and our over-stressed planet are at a crossroads. This decision is important.
All that being said, please know that I think that McCain is basically a good man, and that Obama is, in the end, largely a symbol of change and hope, but nonetheless just one man in a longstanding centrist party that won't and can't change things too radically, too soon.
Still, I think symbols can be powerful things to rally around, that hope is important to humanity, and that electing a black man would send a powerful message of American social maturity and tolerance.
Basically, I think it's the Democrats' turn at the wheel -- even though unelected bureaucrats and businessmen largely run countries.
I don't vote exclusively for any one party here, BTW, but for the people and platforms and issues that speak to me at any one time. Canada has three major political parities (plus some minor ones, such as the Greens and Communists), and though I am undoubtedly left-leaning and "socialist," (especially by US standards), I have voted for each of the three in the past. I'm not constrained by unquestioning party loyalty -- as I perceive too many of my fine neighbours down south to be.
I think such unswerving one-party loyalty, such "rubber stamp" voting, is a bad thing in a democracy. (As did the highly principled John Adams, BTW, whose bio I just finished reading.) I think people should be open to the possibility of changing and adapting their voting patterns according to changing circumstances and players. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 09:04
Slept great! Thank you, my friend. You know, you could always read YOUR Bible. You might just learn a little somethin' somethin'. -------------
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 09:08
Never mind. Peter's not going to be taxed out the Clinton hole like those of us here in the States if he's elected. Pretty easy to be on the outside looking in when taking a fancy in the elections is merely 'interesting'. -------------
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 09:10
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...and yes, I do try to attend church (I feel it keeps me grounded), but I'm far from a religious fundamentalist. There are views on either side that I can identify with; but, there are a couple of glaring (and personal) reasons that keeps me on the right. Sorry if that bugs anyone. -------------
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:01
I don't get offended easily, but you've managed it. |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:08
I think it's the only good thing of his candidacy whether he's elected or not -- the long-overdue integration of blacks into the social life
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:11
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:13
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:18
Huh? |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:22
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:25
Well, only Peter can speak to his intent. I can only speak to my reaction to what was written. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:44
You know what? It's bound to happen when you get beat over the head with these threads like we have since last week. Nobody can win here: I'm not changing their minds and they're sure as hell not changing mine. When you have that then I can only quote the immortal words of Ronnie James Dio: the only way is down. When you get down to it, it's all a filthy game. Come on, kids. It's friggin' politics. If you truly believe that the other party has their fingerprints plastered all over the crime scene and your side is squeaky clean, then you're only foolin' yourself (Man, I quoted Dio and Styx in the same post!). E -------------
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:47
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A few b its of information about Palin that I’ve collected from several international news sites, carefully avoiding FOX and suchlike. Some of the quotes are approximates because of translation. She’s been a member of the ‘World Assemblies of God Fellowship’ (I think that translates as) for over 20 years. This is being played down by the media. Please check this movement, it’s quite scary. The planned pipeline through War in She plans to abolish schools teaching the Theory of Evolution and substitute it with History of Creation from the Bible. She wants to abolish sex education in schools. The day before her nomination she attended her church. During this assembly, one of the speakers, David Brickner, made a statement in which he proclaimed that the terrorist attacks in Isreal were God’s judgement for the Jews not having converted to Christianity. He has been loosely quoted as saying: “When a Palestinian from East-Jerusalem destroys cars and kills several of people, then this is surely an instrument of God’s will!’ Sickening, isn’t is? What sort of company does she keep, and what’s her foreign policy going to look like? The mind boggles! Oh, and a short while later that church issued a statement to the effect that David Brickner had been making a joke. Nice ha-ha. Almost on a level with McCain’s sweet little song about bombing No wonder that McCain’s campaign organisers are falling over themselves to play all this down. All this is sick! |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:49
I am strictly against any teaching of "intelligent design" or something like it in public school science classes, but this statement is patently false. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 10:52
It has to be; no one on earth would be so insane as to even speak of doing that. The consequences would be unimaginable. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 11:01
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Woopsie, sorry, it should read:
She plans to abolish schools teaching the Theory of Evolution and substitute it with History of Creation from the Bible.
And do you wonder that McCain's tribe is attempting a hush-up? |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 11:03
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 11:03
This is still not true. Even if she wanted to, the Vice-President cannot simply issue decrees about how every public school in the United States should function. And the truth is that she supports the "side-by-side" teaching of evolution and intelligent design; as I said earlier, it's something that I completely oppose, but I think it's important to be factually correct about her position. |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 11:10
Just to keep it balanced, what do they say about Jeremiah Wright there? Is he a good company?
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 11:11
I'm not entitled to an opinion? And I'm not taking anything personally. If I had I would've allowed it to affect my great mood on a glorious day here in the heartland. I've got 2 cups of coffee racing through my veins and now that my morning radio program is over (Bob & Brian out of Milwaukee. Dudes are hilarious!) I'm going to put on some good ol' prog. I'm as happy as a puppy with 2 peters (never understood that quote from City Slickers, but it still cracks me up). E -------------
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 11:18
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I get what you mean
But somehow Obama managed successfully to play Jeremiah Wright down, while Sarah Palin's role seems to be very central to this issue.
Perhaps the spins will do the same thing for her, but that's what it looks like right now from here.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 11:32
Well, for one thing the JW episode is practically a non-issue, and made even more so when Obama's quote about people "clinging to guns and religion" came up. Just goes to show he's got at least one character fault: probably doesn't care about religion all that much. Probably dozing off in church while Wright spoke.Whoop-de-f**kin-do. Anyway, it was a smear campaign by the media, blown way out of proportion. Like Howard Dean's "Byawww!" in 2004. The only possible reason this issue was news is that it could call into question Obama's judgement listening to a somewhat radical preacher, but it also played into white people's fears and ignorances of black culture. I don't remeber exactly how it went away as an issue, but it was probably a combination of two reasons: first, Obama's press conference/speech about the issue was very prudent and commendable, and rather showed the jackassery of the media for what it was, and second, perhaps people just saw through the bullsh*t and realized this does not relate to Obama that much. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 12:04
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 12:52
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 12:58
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I actually like Bill Clinton these days (more than when he was Pres). Seems like a cool uncle whose good to share a beer with while exchanging dirty jokes. E -------------
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 14:04
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 14:11
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Yeah, it's funny. I was e-mailing a buddy of mine (a staunch Republican) and we're both in agreement about Bill. E -------------
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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 14:22
In what way? That he's not as bad of a President as "W"? Things were better under him? Or that the talking heads like Hannity will look stupid in thirty years when it is actually at lot worse than we see it now? Or that Bill is/was as bad a "W"? |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 15:41
I have to explain this? His politics/philosophy was different than mine/ours. Never said he was a bad person. Just like him better now than before. E -------------
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 16:23
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If you look at any of this too deeply it does actually frighten you to realise that the USA is still arguably the most powerful nation in the world. When you come down to it the only difference between christian and muslim fundamentalists is that the christians haven't yet got around to strapping bombs to themselves.
Forget the war against terror; what we need is a war against organised religion. ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 16:28
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 16:32
Peter not at all! I was just pointing out there are other forms of extremism beyond the religious kind. We need to be careful of all forms not just one. The religious ones are pretty obvious the others are more subtle. Right now the two countries of the extreme kind that scare me are North Korea and Pakistan. They not only are extremely crazy and unstable but they have, you know, nukes.
 The next president had better be able to deal with this sort of lunacy right off the bat. When I make up my mind who that is then that person will get my vote.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 16:41
I see you're a loyal member of the ABC Club. Actually this is all Jimmy Carter's fault. If he hadn't been defeated by Reagan, we wouldn't have had six years of Reagan-Bush, which Clinton couldn't undo all the damage from in a mere four. And also Dukakis for not defeating Bush 1, in which case we probably would have never heard of W. He'd just be some spoiled rich kid failed businessman who couldn't get by without the help of his Dad's buddies to this day. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 09 2008 at 17:53
" The Biographies of Obama and Palin - A Fair Comparison?Submitted by christine on Tue,
09/09/2008 - 3:30pm. /articles/taxonomy/term/33 - Reader Contribution
A BUZZFLASH READER CONTRIBUTION The GOP has selected Sarah Palin as their answer to Barack Obama -- whom they depict as a rock star, a celebrity, a charismatic and youthful candidate. Of course, they downplay the Democrat's experience and judgment, while applauding their own young candidate's credentials. Below are some side-by-side comparisons, offered by one BuzzFlash Reader. We invite others to add their comments, corrections, and additions, on the topic of comparing the candidates and their resumes. * * * Obama: Works his way up from Occidental College, L.A., to Columbia
University. * * * Obama in 1983: hired at graduation by B.I.C., N.Y., as research associate of
financial services. * * * Obama 1985-1988: quits corporate job, joins public interest groups in NY and
CHI. * * * Obama 1988: Accepted by Harvard Law School. * * * Obama: Marries Michelle in planned wedding after three year courtship, first
child Malia born six years later. * * * Obama 1992: Recruited by University of Chicago to teach Constitutional
Law, * * * Obama 1992-1996: continues to teach Constitutional Law and practice
privately. * * * Obama 1996-2004: elected to Illinois state legislature, district population
250,000, state population 13,000,000. * * * Obama: Loses Democratic congressional primary in 2000, gets 29,649
votes. * * * Obama 2004: Elected U.S. Senate * * * Obama 2006: devises primary campaign that defeats heavily favored Hilary
Clinton. * * * Obama's family plan 2006-2008: Barack campaigns and serves senate duties
full-time * * * Obama 2008: Democratic nominee, President. A well-ordered mind. * * * A BUZZFLASH READER CONTRIBUTION " Unattributed
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