"Roundabout" or "All Good People" from Yes.

"Time is Right" by Manfred Mann's Earthband.

I don't want to scare them off with anything too complex.  You have to have a song that immediately sticks, get them humming the chorus. Careful of odd-metered stuff. If they can't tap their foot, they won't get it.

Of course, if they are musicians, you can go for something which they will appreciate. I don't know how many drummers I've got into Prog with Bruford's drumming technique. Guitar players enjoy Howe's "Mood for a Day" or Holdsworth's intro to "Nevermore."

I've also created a few CD's of "various artists" stuff to give them an overview. I try to keep it upbeat, not too complex, and always with vocals. There are not a lot of people who like instrumental music. I love it, but that not the issue, is it?

Since Prog tunes are long and the CD-R is only 80 minutes, give them a good cross section of artists and songs you think THEY may like. You've got to catch there interest, not show them the stuff you like first. That comes second.  

Hopefully you've just created a proghole and not lost a friend.  

Kay.  If I had an hour I'd regale them with "Roundabout", "Supper's Ready", "In The Court Of The Crimson King", "Xanadu" and "Minstrel In The Gallery".

Then while they were sitting there glassy-eyed, I'd try to explain what those songs had in common.

Stormcrow wrote: Then while they were sitting there glassy-eyed, I'd try to explain what those songs had in common.

LOL , I know that look.........

danbo....i'd agree with Roundabout" or "All Good People" from Yes. and i'd also include Fanfare For The Common Man or Tarkus from ELP!!!!!!!!!!

Time (Dark side of the moon), Awaken (g4t1), Musical Box (nursery cryme). That's what did it for me.

Then Firth of Fifth, Echo's and if there was time, the Icon (Utopia).

Or maybe Six Wives, Animals and Angels Egg (GonG) in their entirity.

I would start with:

King Crimson - In The Court Of The Crimson King  

followed by:

Genesis - Suppers Ready

and then:

ELP - Tarkus (live version)

finishing with:

Yes - Close To The Edge

Take no prisoners!!!

I`d go with the first Crimson album. If someone doesn`t like that it`s unlikely they will like anything else by Yes, Genesis, ELP etc. and forget about Gentle Giant.

Mekanik Kommandoh by MAGMA!

...

well, maybe not.

corbet wrote: Mekanik Kommandoh by MAGMA!   ... well, maybe not.

I think this would disgust them from prog rather than make them want to dig further ! Submit them instead something lighter and more accessible, such as Yes' "And you and I" for the seventies, Marillion's "Heart of Lothian" for the eighties, Echolyn's "Currents of me" and Dream Theater's "Raising the knife" for the nineties.  

I've done it recently, with the Locanda Della Fate song 'Force le Luciolle...'. Although it would depend on wich friend I'm talking to. For example, there's no doubt I would be Renaissance  (maybe 'A song for all seasons') or Mostly Autumn ('Shrinking Violet' probably) if the friend is a woman.

Although it's better to try to convince them using their own experiences. Does he like the Beatles?, play 'A day in the Life'. Does he like Dire Straits?, play Telegraph Road. Is he/she a Queen fan?, then Bohemian Rhapsody can do it. Does he like Justin Timberlake? Oooopssss!

Something from the bigger bands, I geuss.

Yes - Yours is no disgrace

Rush - Xanadu

Pink Floyd - Shine on

Genesis - The Musical box

Hmmm... maybe 'Mental Medication' by U.K.

but I think that the ones named by Jim Garten are good ones...maybe we leave VdGG out because they don't use Guitars (O.k. Fripp appears here and there) and use a Saxophone instead, not really representative for Prog bands (IMO!!!)

Jim Garten wrote: Yeeeeeeeeeesssssss, but UK in later incarnations were without guitars (I think) with the lineup of Wetton/Bozzio/Jobson.

that's right...but 'Mental Medication' is with Holdsworth and that's why I love it

I meant the fact that VdGG uses the saxophone instead of the guitar and thats (IMO) unusual for symphonic prog and the symphonic is the most representative one I think...

but by the way, 'a plague of lighthouse keepers' is AWESOME!!!

"The Knots" by GENTLE GIANT would probably scare him ... but as a technical point of view it is a GOOD representation of what PROG MUSIC is all about

I would go in a 5 steps progression (slowly but surely):

1. Symphonic Prog 70s (YES or GENESIS)
2. NEO PROG SYMPHONIC (MARILLION, IQ)
3. Symphonic Prog mid and late 70s (VAN DER GRAAF, Gentle Giant, UK)
4. Italian Prog (BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO, LOCANDA DELLE FATE)
5. Actual Prog (Anglagard, Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree)
6. maybe MAGMA

While listening, I would talk to him (or her) about the evolution of the genre  !

What do you think ?

Marcelo wrote: I tried to explain when music plays, but at the third minute (it doesn't matter Genesis, Yes, or any prog gem) the reaction is the same: "Nice, but I'm boring"

because they expect the song to be over  it's not their beloved 'fast-food-music'

I'll go along with this session for prog starters:

1.- In the Cage - Genesis

2.- Dogs - Pink Floyd

3.- Incubus - Marillion

4.- Otto Pankrock - Grobschnitt

5.- Cliche - Fish

and just that to get him/her hooked up on progressive rock music!  haha

landberkdoten wrote: I'll go along with this session for prog starters: 1.- In the Cage - Genesis 2.- Dogs - Pink Floyd 3.- Incubus - Marillion 4.- Otto Pankrock - Grobschnitt 5.- Cliche - Fish and just that to get him/her hooked up on progressive rock music!  haha

Welcome, Landberk! How is the weather in Mexico? Are you in Mexico City?

Good list -- Marillion and Fish are in good company there!

Bit of a fan, are you?

Marcelo wrote: I tried to explain when music plays, but at the third minute (it doesn't matter Genesis, Yes, or any prog gem) the reaction is the same: "Nice, but I'm boring"

What I usually get is not 'when is his going to finish?'. I'm usually said: 'When is this going to start?' . The lenghth might put off people at first, but you can explain some themes in form of suite: I've done so with, for example, Tubular Bells: imagine there's a silence every time it seems to change the melody/style or so and that's it. But, when they came to really listening to this music, they really have no patience for it to develop, no patience for build up. It's as if they waited EVERY movie to start and develop as, let's say, Die Hard 3 (non-stop action and the main theme stablished from minute one).

Paco Fox wrote:  But, when they came to really listening to this music, they really have no patience for it to develop, no patience for build up. It's as if they waited EVERY movie to start and develop as, let's say, Die Hard 3 (non-stop action and the main theme stablished from minute one).

 I know what you mean, Paco. Thanks to the TV remote, and hundreds of channels, attention spans are getting shorter, and we are becoming ever more visually-oriented.

 Plus, the arts of conversation, reading and letter writing are being eroded....

(For example, thanks to Internet chat-speak, lots of kids think that "you" is spelled "u"....)

People all over the English-speaking world are adopting the same inane "Carifornia valley-girl/surfer-speak." Culture is being homogenized, and "dumbed down."

 But we can fight this with good music, and by reading to our children, as well as for our own pleasure.

 Try turning the darned television (and computer) off sometimes, folks!

Peter Rideout wrote:  But we can fight this with good music, and by reading to our children, as well as for our own pleasure.  Try turning the darned television (and computer) off sometimes, folks!

But... but... but PETER!

I read for pleasure ON my computer screen.  In part. 

How else could I keep up on all the wonderful information about ninja wolverines, attack wombats and beavers no longer involved in radio??????????

Peter Rideout wrote: People all over the English-speaking world are adopting the same inane "Carifornia valley-girl/surfer-speak." Culture is being homogenized, and "dumbed down."

Maybe it's kind of interesting for you that this development can be found in other languages as well. I can report about this development for the german language. Due to the internet/chat language and some expressions coming from TV shows and chart-music also  settle down in our language. I often hear my brother saying 'LOL' instead of laughing  Many expressions tend to be spoken english and not german...expressions coming out of TV series or chart music are wrepped in our normal life. And the main area are commercials, they use those expressions to address young people because they often just understand this kind of language because the original one is maybe to boring...

I really wondered about the fact that nobody in our class could understand Goethe's Faust even though it is german language  maybe the same with Shakespeare for example...

i think that prog is so wide to hear it in one song, but  if you want to know a little bit, choose randomlly any record of king Crimson or Van der graaf Generator

peace

diddy wrote: I often hear my brother saying 'LOL' instead of laughing

Oh, thanks! At last I learn what that damn world means, after several years rerading it in every internet forum around the net!!! . I sometimes think some non english speaking people are starting to write more proper english than some teenagers. Not me, of course.

But, back to prog, I think that Peter is right: the key is the shortening of attention spans. Prog needs actually being listened to, not just 'heard'. And it requieres patience.

danbo wrote: I was driving my daughter to school one day, an hour ride, listening to Transatlantic. She kept looking at the CD player in the dash and then she'd look at me. Three, four times. Finally she said, "When is that song gonna end?" I started laughing, nearly peed myself. 'Course I catch her singing "June" one day. All is not lost, Peter.

Yeah, I know, Danbo. As a former highschool teacher, I've met lots of great teens. They're not all brainless, inarticulate thugs!

To put it in perspective: I've read Roman writings from the year 200 wherin the writer is complaining about youth having no respect for their elders, and being violent, and contributing to a rise in crime, as well as English Victorian novels that echo the same concerns.

 It seems as if each generation of teens comes up with fashions, slang, music and attitudes to shock/offend/irritate their elders -- but civilization has yet to collapse....

I wonder what the kids of todays kids will listen to, to drive their gangsta rap and death metal-loving parents crazy? Classical? Peter, Paul and Mary?

Re the original topic, three nominations: "21st Century Schizoid Man," "Supper's Ready," and "Thick as a Brick." They've got it all!

OK: "Karn Evil 9" as well, Richardh!

It's hard to choose just one.

Genesis- Dancing With The Moonlit Knight

King Crimson- 21st Century Schizoid Man

Pink Floyd- Money

Any other genre of music will find it hard to beat these as better songs. I don't think they would!

I'm new to this website, can someone tell me what the stars are all about. I'm called a newbie, what's that about. Don't get me wrong I like this site a lot. Although this star system thing seems to be a hierarchy of members. That seems a bit strange to me considering it's a progressive rock site and the main founders of progressive rock were generally socialists- Genesis- Gabriel, Pink Floyd- Waters, King Crimson- Fripp etc.

I think these people had a problem with all hierarchies.

WELCOME a board Scotto'connor !

The stars system is based on the number of posts ...

yeah thanks. Couldn't you have come up with a better word for instead of newbie, ha ha. I don't know a better one, but what's done is done and I do not give a damn.

This depends wholly on the person I'm with.

To some I would play "Funny Ways" with Gentle Giant (a group I refuse to forget) or Think of me with Kindness.

To others "Knife Edge" or "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight".

To others again "Radioactive Toy" with Porcupine Three.

Or "Shine of you Crazy Diamond", though that is maybe a dirty trick.

And lets not forget the first Jethro Tull album, to people into blues.

One important consideration is also the singers voice (some just can't stand Jon or Ian or Derek) , and whether it should be e.g. "metal", "ballad" or "folk" oriented, or have mostly guitars or mostly keyboards - or being made with a "70's sound" or with a "90's sound". Here as elsewhere the challenge is to build bridges - most people are rather different from the standard prog fan, which BTW does not exist

Darkness - VDGG.

21st century schizoid man- King Crimson

Starship Trooper- Yes

Make up your mind - Quatermass

You shouldn't do that - HAWKWIND

Luglio,Agosto,Settembre (Nero) - AREA 

Scotto'connor wrote: The main founders of progressive rock were generally socialists- Genesis- Gabriel, Pink Floyd- Waters, King Crimson- Fripp etc. I think these people had a problem with all hierarchies.

I've noticed that, too! However, intellectuals such as Neil Peart came along and finally wrote some deeply philosophical lyrics (I'm not bashing other bands, I think they are very poetic, just without the philosophical merit). Dream Theater's lyrics are also incredibly smart, dealing with topics such as religion, society, love, politics, etc. And who could forget mr. Zappa? He, (as well as peart and others) are among the few musicians I know who are atheists, and I commend them for their choice.

back on topic, I think that In The Court of the Crimson King would have to be one of the most important prog tunes

^Just so you know, I mean not to offend, I simply cannot help endorsing an ideology I support. (once again, my emotions have gotten the best of me)

I also believe that dark side of the moon is one of the best representatives of prog that I can think of

opps,

I forgot:

 2112 - Rush

Star palace of the sombre warrior - Seventh Wave

Quote:

Imagine you are at home with a friend who isn't into prog music, and you want to explain him what progressive music is.

In some respects I'm doing this most weeks on my radio show and have done so for a very long time with an audience of curious 18 to 25 year olds, who have been brought up on media diet, which is just plain anti-prog. Sorry to say, if I played most of what has been suggested above  as initial exposure to prog, I would have them turning off in droves. Softly softly is the approach, with a gradual education rather than taking them to the advance levels straightaway (e.g. Magma....) - you are trying to take prisoners who are willing. These young folk have heard of The Mars Volta, A Perfect Circle/Tool, Spirtualise, The Doves, Coral, Radiohead, etc, so show them where these bands came from. The retrorock/Queen sub-impressionists, The Darkness are the rock band, young folk go for in the UK, therefore play Queen then ease them into something more complicated. The last successful neo-prog band in the UK was It Bites (sort of Genesis meets UK) and I had some success playing UK and Genesis to It Bites fans. One real problem now is lack of attention span, so used are young folks to 3 minute tracks, if you give them a whole side of Yes straightaway, there might be a danger of loosing them. 

For instance, I'm experimenting on my radio show this coming Thursday, by playing a chunk of side one of Ibis's 1974 recording "Sun Supreme" - aimed right at the Darkness fan base, to show them how the Darkness might develop.

WOW! I HAVE JUST STARTED TO RAED THIS THREAD FOR THE FIRST TIME(WHICH MEANS I WILL BE FINISHED BY JANURY 2005) VERY INTERESTING I AM AMAZED AT THE KNOWLEDGE OF OF PROGFANS(MAKES ME FEEL A BIT INADEQUATE)

I LIKE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON! 

Of all the prog bands, Floyd really has mass-appeal and their music still sounds fresh. Most of the old stuff didn't wear well, great music, but very dated. HMMMmmm.

 Is it all studio technique that creates that "timelessness"? Production has a lot to do with it. One of the things I always hated about "LIVE" recordings was the poor quality and the extraneous noise.

What do you think?  What makes some music timeless?

Yeah, defintely something creative!!! It's impossible for anyone to come up with something totally unique, however, there are still a few musicians out there who push the envelope. Just about everything is derivitive of something else. I just want a band to put in some effort. I guess that's the thing about PROG. A semi-talented musician will not cut the mustard. You gotta have chops.

Honestly I see two questions in this thread:

1.- Which is the most representative prog' song: I believe that it has to be a song that has at least, great keyboards, complex guitar chords, abrupt changes and intelligent lyrics, this are my choices:

The Musical Box (Genesis): Great keyboards, atmospheric guitar and complete lyrics that include everything, from innocence to violence in a few minutes.

Trilogy (ELP): The song not all the album

Gates of Delirium (Yes): Even though will destroy the brain of a newbie.

2.- Which song you'll use to show a newbie what prog means: Has to be more accesible than anything from Thrak or Relayer, but complex enough to let the newbie understand prog' is not pop.

1.- Roundabout (Yes): Rock structure with keyboards great guitar and chorus.

2.- Comfortably Numb (Pink Floyd): Simple enough but not boring.

3.- I Know What I Like (Genesis): It was a relative hit when released but complex enough.

Iván

The trouble with "representative prog" is that prog may be in almost any style, colour and size.

It is a bit like saying "representative creative food" or "representative creative novel".

I new here. This is actually my first thread.

Although I am new to this site. I'm not new to progressive rock.

The tunes that will define the genre best, are in my opinion:

Yes: Close to the Edge

VDGG: A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers

King Crimson: Starless

Genesis: Supper's Ready

ELP: Karn Evil 9 (the entire 30minute suite) 

These tunes should cover the most aspects of the traditional Prog-Rock. 

But if you want the person to actually like Prog Rock. I wouldn't exactly advise anyone to play stuff like Karn Evil or Gates of Delirium (though it's my all-time-favourite track) to someone who is absolutely new to the genre.

I never forget when I played ELP's Toccata to a friend of mine, who wasn't at all into prog rock. He said, due to the inacsessibility of the track, that it was the worst thing he had ever heard. And ELP got themselves another critic.

A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers, on the other hand, seems to have the opposite effect, even though it gets pretty “wild” a couple of times during it’s 20+ minutes. I played it once to my older sister, she actually seemed to like it. She said it sounded like a “dark” version of Webber’s “Jesus Christ Superstar” I Can’t say I clearly see the similarities, it must be because almost the only music she knows from the 70ies is “Jesus Christ Superstar". It’s an acknowledgement... anyway

threefates said: "ELP - Tarkus"

Excellent choice.

One for the Vine - Genesis

Lunar Sea - Camel

Sleepwalkers - VDGG

Carlos wrote: What about Lizard from King Crimson

Not to offend, but I've always found KC's Lizard.. about the worst album they ever did.  I think for a prog newbie... If I was turning them on to KC, I would definitely start out with the first album, ITCOTCK... because its definitely a lot easier to digest...

threefates wrote: Carlos wrote: What about Lizard from King Crimson Not to offend, but I've always found KC's Lizard.. about the worst album they ever did.  I think for a prog newbie... If I was turning them on to KC, I would definitely start out with the first album, ITCOTCK... because its definitely a lot easier to digest...

I think KC were always quite unpredictable. I'm not a big fan, to be honest, but they have a done some good tunes IMO. I reckon 'Red' would be the only KC album I'd play to a newcomer to prog. Not because it's representative of KC, but just because its good  

Start em off with close to the edge (Yes), in the dead of night (UK), minstrel in the Gallery (JT) and Karn evil 9 (ELP), if they're still standing after that give em Lark's tongue in aspic (I) and Red (Both KC), and finally for the knock out, whomp them with Udu Wudu (Magma) and Leg end (Henry Cow).

Rael

frenchie wrote: Pink Floyd - Echoes - for build ups and progressions Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond - for solos and different instruments. King Crimson - Moonchild - for using guitar effects as part of progressive bridges.

I like the sound of that!

I'dd Go With ----     Silence

too many possible answers!!

Why not Rick Wakeman - The chamber of horrors?