Why is it that everyone who does a cover of a Bob Dylan track always makes a better job than his original,no matter how crap any  band is?

con safo wrote: FuzzyDude wrote: Because Dylan's band is usually crappier. Dylan's 'songs' are really just poems set to music. Melodies and tone simply don't exist in his world, just the lyrics. Plausible, but i think chronic masturbation is to blame in this particular situation

Admittedly his sung offerings alone are the biggest bag of bollox ever,but they are very good songs used correctly

Bob Dylan is the antithesis to progressive rock. I actually think he very often makes his music 'ugly' on purpose. He doesn't want you to hum along or tap your feet, he wants you to hear the lyrics for what they are. Progressive revolves around aesthetics, where as Dylan's work is based on meaning and purpose.

Dylan was a writer/composer, not a performer.

There are too many (especially nowadays) who are exactly the opposite - a good writer is far harder to come by than a good performer (read poseur!).

There's also an old saying that runs "You can't polish a turd".

Dylan's songs are the opposite of that - they are so good, that even the tiniest lick of paint will bring out the quality, and when you get a master like Hendrix doing the interpretation, you get magic (All Along The Watchtower).

Certif1ed wrote: Dylan was a writer/composer, not a performer. There are too many (especially nowadays) who are exactly the opposite - a good writer is far harder to come by than a good performer (read poseur!). There's also an old saying that runs "You can't polish a turd". Dylan's songs are the opposite of that - they are so good, that even the tiniest lick of paint will bring out the quality, and when you get a master like Hendrix doing the interpretation, you get magic (All Along The Watchtower).

Check out The NICE doing the cover of Dylans ''Country Pie'' on the five bridges suite album.

Nothing like purposefully writing contentious posts, right KE9? There's something to be said for someone who is always true to themself, even if that self is an asshole.

Even notice how few bands ever care to do covers of ELP songs?

James Lee wrote: Nothing like purposefully writing contentious posts, right KE9? There's something to be said for someone who is always true to themself, even if that self is an asshole. Even notice how few bands ever care to do covers of ELP songs?

Up yours Lee,sort your personal life out on someone else,or knock one out whatever.I think your pobably the only member on here i can't stand.As for Assholes you said it.

METALMAN wrote: my bro like Bob Dylan  Karnevil9

I'll guess who you like

FuzzyDude wrote: Progressive revolves around aesthetics, where as Dylan's work is based on meaning and purpose.

Not quite. Try Henry Cow .

FuzzyDude wrote: Progressive revolves around aesthetics, where as Dylan's work is based on meaning and purpose.

I think pop music (singer/songwriter garbage or boy bands or divas) in general is more about the words than the music. In that kind of music, the melodies and tune serves to catch or hook people into listening, not for artistic expression. However, in prog, lyrics serve a symbolic purpose, as does the music. Take the Gates of Delirium for example. The lyrics obviously speak of war and peace, but the music conveys this theme also, with (quiet passages and cacophonous banging metal)

KE9:

Of course, setting aside James' comment for a moment, this whole thread revolves around your singular opinion that all covers of Dylan songs are better than the originals.  Some of us may not agree with that proposition.  I like many of the covers of Dylan's songs, but that does not mean i think they are "better."  Different, yes; but better?  As with all music, that determination is in the ears of the beholder.

Peace.

Crimson Prince wrote: FuzzyDude wrote: Progressive revolves around aesthetics, where as Dylan's work is based on meaning and purpose. I think pop music (singer/songwriter garbage or boy bands or divas) in general is more about the words than the music. In that kind of music, the melodies and tune serves to catch or hook people into listening, not for artistic expression. However, in prog, lyrics serve a symbolic purpose, as does the music. Take the Gates of Delirium for example. The lyrics obviously speak of war and peace, but the music conveys this theme also, with (quiet passages and cacophonous banging metal)

Maani

I think you'll find a lot will agree with me,but as your American i guess you view is obvious.

I must admit, I've always considered Dylan to be a far better song writer than performer. I appreciate he has a large and dedicated following, but his albums by and large leave me cold. I did like his "Desire" album though.

It has always amazed me how so many perfomers have managed to spot the potential in so many of his songs, and turned them into classics. Manfred mann's Earth Band in particular seem to have a real talent for exploiting Dylan's (and indeed Springsteen's) songs.

DallasBryan wrote: Blonde on Blonde and the Basement Tapes are documents that have been rarely surpassed(if at all) and have stood the test of time. Again you have to love the genre first, songwriter and americana with a blues twist.

Good point DB - and none of the songs from Blood On The Tracks have ever been bettered by anyone else covering them. Dylan is definitely not prog, and I can't think of a single prog Dylan cover version (not that there are many) that could even be described as adequate, though Manfred Mann had a nice line in Dylan covers in his pre prog days. I also think Dylan's influenced more than a few proggers - Dave Gilmour's solo albums are Dylan tributes in all but name, Peter Gabriel slipped in a sly reference or two (check out the sleeve notes to The Lamb) and Robert Wyatt paid a moving tribute with Blues in Bob Minor. 

synthguy wrote: Karnevil9: "Maani I think you'll find a lot will agree with me,but as your American i guess you view is obvious." Not to be critical, mind you. But I can't help but comment. I hate stereotyping. And by the way, are you a pirate? Your are what you is. You view is obvious, matey. Argh! Dylan's songs are exceptional. That is why they make such great covers.

Can we have that in English please?

KE9:

I think what synthguy was trying to get across is that you are unnecessarily stereotyping and generalizing in your presumption that, simply because I'm American, I will feel one way or another about a particular artist, especially if they are American.  Poppycock.  No more than you are going to champion every British band ever created.  C'mon, now, and get real.

You can state that "I think you will find that alot agree with me."  However, I can just as easily and correctly state that alot will disagree with you.

The basic statement of this thread - which you have asked - is: covers of Dylan songs are always better than the originals.  I challenge that, on the clear obviousity that "better" is a subjective criterion; i.e., taste is, as stated, in the ears of the beholder.  You apparently don't like Dylan, or at least his originals of songs that have been covered by others.  That is your prerogative.  But to state that all covers of Dylan songs are "better" is a "feeling," not a fact.  And to hide behind stereotyping and generalizing - "Well, you're American so you are obviously going to champion American artists" - when someone disagrees with you is weak.

Peace.

maani wrote: KE9: I think what synthguy was trying to get across is that you are unnecessarily stereotyping and generalizing in your presumption that, simply because I'm American, I will feel one way or another about a particular artist, especially if they are American.  Poppycock.  No more than you are going to champion every British band ever created.  C'mon, now, and get real. You can state that "I think you will find that alot agree with me."  However, I can just as easily and correctly state that alot will disagree with you. The basic statement of this thread - which you have asked - is: covers of Dylan songs are always better than the originals.  I challenge that, on the clear obviousity that "better" is a subjective criterion; i.e., taste is, as stated, in the ears of the beholder.  You apparently don't like Dylan, or at least his originals of songs that have been covered by others.  That is your prerogative.  But to state that all covers of Dylan songs are "better" is a "feeling," not a fact.  And to hide behind stereotyping and generalizing - "Well, you're American so you are obviously going to champion American artists" - when someone disagrees with you is weak. Peace.

Maani

It's a know fact that most Americans & british have different tastes in music.

The proof lies in the styles throughout the era's.I found that most American bands from the late '60's to early '70's to be voice & acoustic guitar based.Bob Dylan,Joan Baez etc...Most early bands were the likes of the Doors,Velvet Underground etc...Into the '70's Eagles etc etc...Totaly different material to what British & European Bands were churning out at the time.I still find it hard to accept that an American & his usual tastes as an American to be into Progressive Rock & mostly obscure ones.Back then it was a style of ours & Europes.I has a general persumption that the only prog bands that got favoured over there were ELP,Pink Floyd,yes ETC..

But i stand by my guns that the majority of British listners do not favour Bob Dylan as a performing artist.

Enough.

Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Nothing like purposefully writing contentious posts, right KE9? There's something to be said for someone who is always true to themself, even if that self is an asshole. Even notice how few bands ever care to do covers of ELP songs? Up yours Lee,sort your personal life out on someone else,or knock one out whatever.I think your pobably the only member on here i can't stand.As for Assholes you said it.

I'm not planning on hiding my feelings one bit...you irritate me, and it is entertaining to me to make your experience here as difficult as possible. Look forward to more. As far as my personal life...what could you possibly know about me, and what makes you think it has anything to do with this?

My point was: You returned to the forum promising to behave, and almost right out of the gate you post an argumentative and obviously provocative topic about Bob Dylan..doesn't sound like you learned anything while you were away. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have almost nothing worthwhile to say, and cannot even manage to say nothing in an entertaining and intelligent manner.

I think you should do a little research on attendance at Dylan's European concert dates of the 60s and 70s before you assert that Brits didn't care for him as a performer. A number of people seem to agree with you, giving you added confidence- as long as you don't consider the fact that a lot of people also love Britney Spears . As far as your foolishly ininformed Eurocentrism...sieg heil!

James Lee wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Nothing like purposefully writing contentious posts, right KE9? There's something to be said for someone who is always true to themself, even if that self is an asshole. Even notice how few bands ever care to do covers of ELP songs? Up yours Lee,sort your personal life out on someone else,or knock one out whatever.I think your pobably the only member on here i can't stand.As for Assholes you said it. I'm not planning on hiding my feelings one bit...you irritate me, and it is entertaining to me to make your experience here as difficult as possible. Look forward to more. As far as my personal life...what could you possibly know about me, and what makes you think it has anything to do with this? My point was: You returned to the forum promising to behave, and almost right out of the gate you post an argumentative and obviously provocative topic about Bob Dylan..doesn't sound like you learned anything while you were away. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have almost nothing worthwhile to say, and cannot even manage to say nothing in an entertaining and intelligent manner. I think you should do a little research on attendance at Dylan's European concert dates of the 60s and 70s before you assert that Brits didn't care for him as a performer. A number of people seem to agree with you, giving you added confidence- as long as you don't consider the fact that a lot of people also love Britney Spears . As far as your foolishly ininformed Eurocentrism...sieg heil!

SO YOU'VE ADMITED YOU HERE TO MAKE MY LIFE HARD.FINE!

iT WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION & RESPONCE TO MANNI THATS ALL NO WAR INTENDED EVEN THOUGH YOUR STARTING ONE HERE & FOR THE NAZI REMARK...VERY CHILDISH.WHILE IM OFF WASTING MY TIME REASERCHING DYLANS DESPERATION CALLS IN THE UK 60's/70's.YOU TOTTER OFF & READ ABOUT GERMANY UNDER THE NAZI RULE YOU MAY LEARN SOMETHING.YOU MAY ALSO LEARN THAT EVERYTIME THE AMERICAN STICK THERE NOSE IN OUR BUISNESS IT ALL GOES DESPERATLY WRONG..EVEN THERE OWN FOR THAT MATTER.

Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Nothing like purposefully writing contentious posts, right KE9? There's something to be said for someone who is always true to themself, even if that self is an asshole. Even notice how few bands ever care to do covers of ELP songs? Up yours Lee,sort your personal life out on someone else,or knock one out whatever.I think your pobably the only member on here i can't stand.As for Assholes you said it. I'm not planning on hiding my feelings one bit...you irritate me, and it is entertaining to me to make your experience here as difficult as possible. Look forward to more. As far as my personal life...what could you possibly know about me, and what makes you think it has anything to do with this? My point was: You returned to the forum promising to behave, and almost right out of the gate you post an argumentative and obviously provocative topic about Bob Dylan..doesn't sound like you learned anything while you were away. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have almost nothing worthwhile to say, and cannot even manage to say nothing in an entertaining and intelligent manner. I think you should do a little research on attendance at Dylan's European concert dates of the 60s and 70s before you assert that Brits didn't care for him as a performer. A number of people seem to agree with you, giving you added confidence- as long as you don't consider the fact that a lot of people also love Britney Spears . As far as your foolishly ininformed Eurocentrism...sieg heil!   SO YOU'VE ADMITED YOU HERE TO MAKE MY LIFE HARD.FINE! iT WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION & RESPONCE TO MANNI THATS ALL NO WAR INTENDED EVEN THOUGH YOUR STARTING ONE HERE & FOR THE NAZI REMARK...VERY CHILDISH.WHILE IM OFF WASTING MY TIME REASERCHING DYLANS DESPERATION CALLS IN THE UK 60's/70's.YOU TOTTER OFF & READ ABOUT GERMANY UNDER THE NAZI RULE YOU MAY LEARN SOMETHING.YOU MAY ALSO LEARN THAT EVERYTIME THE AMERICAN STICK THERE NOSE IN OUR BUISNESS IT ALL GOES DESPERATLY WRONG..EVEN THERE OWN FOR THAT MATTER.

Karn:

We can thank our American friends for helping us rid Europe of Hitler. We couldn't have done it without them, I'm afraid.

Why does every thread you get involved in end up in conflict!!?

Out of interest, how old are you??

Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Nothing like purposefully writing contentious posts, right KE9? There's something to be said for someone who is always true to themself, even if that self is an asshole. Even notice how few bands ever care to do covers of ELP songs? Up yours Lee,sort your personal life out on someone else,or knock one out whatever.I think your pobably the only member on here i can't stand.As for Assholes you said it. I'm not planning on hiding my feelings one bit...you irritate me, and it is entertaining to me to make your experience here as difficult as possible. Look forward to more. As far as my personal life...what could you possibly know about me, and what makes you think it has anything to do with this? My point was: You returned to the forum promising to behave, and almost right out of the gate you post an argumentative and obviously provocative topic about Bob Dylan..doesn't sound like you learned anything while you were away. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have almost nothing worthwhile to say, and cannot even manage to say nothing in an entertaining and intelligent manner. I think you should do a little research on attendance at Dylan's European concert dates of the 60s and 70s before you assert that Brits didn't care for him as a performer. A number of people seem to agree with you, giving you added confidence- as long as you don't consider the fact that a lot of people also love Britney Spears . As far as your foolishly ininformed Eurocentrism...sieg heil!   SO YOU'VE ADMITED YOU HERE TO MAKE MY LIFE HARD.FINE! iT WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION & RESPONCE TO MANNI THATS ALL NO WAR INTENDED EVEN THOUGH YOUR STARTING ONE HERE & FOR THE NAZI REMARK...VERY CHILDISH.WHILE IM OFF WASTING MY TIME REASERCHING DYLANS DESPERATION CALLS IN THE UK 60's/70's.YOU TOTTER OFF & READ ABOUT GERMANY UNDER THE NAZI RULE YOU MAY LEARN SOMETHING.YOU MAY ALSO LEARN THAT EVERYTIME THE AMERICAN STICK THERE NOSE IN OUR BUISNESS IT ALL GOES DESPERATLY WRONG..EVEN THERE OWN FOR THAT MATTER.

I'm not 'here to make your life hard'...I'm here for the music talk, it's just a bonus. I'll leave you alone completely if you don't say anything foolishly provocative. I promise!

Don't waste too much time researching Dylan in England...just watch "Don't Look Back".

I'm childish for responding to your "Europe is better than the US" comments with a WWII reference? I have to admit it, you're right. It's never okay to sink to the level of your opponent.

Blacksword wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Nothing like purposefully writing contentious posts, right KE9? There's something to be said for someone who is always true to themself, even if that self is an asshole. Even notice how few bands ever care to do covers of ELP songs? Up yours Lee,sort your personal life out on someone else,or knock one out whatever.I think your pobably the only member on here i can't stand.As for Assholes you said it. I'm not planning on hiding my feelings one bit...you irritate me, and it is entertaining to me to make your experience here as difficult as possible. Look forward to more. As far as my personal life...what could you possibly know about me, and what makes you think it has anything to do with this? My point was: You returned to the forum promising to behave, and almost right out of the gate you post an argumentative and obviously provocative topic about Bob Dylan..doesn't sound like you learned anything while you were away. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have almost nothing worthwhile to say, and cannot even manage to say nothing in an entertaining and intelligent manner. I think you should do a little research on attendance at Dylan's European concert dates of the 60s and 70s before you assert that Brits didn't care for him as a performer. A number of people seem to agree with you, giving you added confidence- as long as you don't consider the fact that a lot of people also love Britney Spears . As far as your foolishly ininformed Eurocentrism...sieg heil!   SO YOU'VE ADMITED YOU HERE TO MAKE MY LIFE HARD.FINE! iT WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION & RESPONCE TO MANNI THATS ALL NO WAR INTENDED EVEN THOUGH YOUR STARTING ONE HERE & FOR THE NAZI REMARK...VERY CHILDISH.WHILE IM OFF WASTING MY TIME REASERCHING DYLANS DESPERATION CALLS IN THE UK 60's/70's.YOU TOTTER OFF & READ ABOUT GERMANY UNDER THE NAZI RULE YOU MAY LEARN SOMETHING.YOU MAY ALSO LEARN THAT EVERYTIME THE AMERICAN STICK THERE NOSE IN OUR BUISNESS IT ALL GOES DESPERATLY WRONG..EVEN THERE OWN FOR THAT MATTER. Karn: We can thank our American friends for helping us rid Europe of Hitler. We couldn't have done it without them, I'm afraid.

And we are still paying for it!  Never mind the yanks we would never have won without the Soviet Union..so thanks Ivan!

Snow Dog wrote: Blacksword wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Karnevil9 wrote: James Lee wrote: Nothing like purposefully writing contentious posts, right KE9? There's something to be said for someone who is always true to themself, even if that self is an asshole. Even notice how few bands ever care to do covers of ELP songs? Up yours Lee,sort your personal life out on someone else,or knock one out whatever.I think your pobably the only member on here i can't stand.As for Assholes you said it. I'm not planning on hiding my feelings one bit...you irritate me, and it is entertaining to me to make your experience here as difficult as possible. Look forward to more. As far as my personal life...what could you possibly know about me, and what makes you think it has anything to do with this? My point was: You returned to the forum promising to behave, and almost right out of the gate you post an argumentative and obviously provocative topic about Bob Dylan..doesn't sound like you learned anything while you were away. The more you post, the more obvious it is that you have almost nothing worthwhile to say, and cannot even manage to say nothing in an entertaining and intelligent manner. I think you should do a little research on attendance at Dylan's European concert dates of the 60s and 70s before you assert that Brits didn't care for him as a performer. A number of people seem to agree with you, giving you added confidence- as long as you don't consider the fact that a lot of people also love Britney Spears . As far as your foolishly ininformed Eurocentrism...sieg heil!   SO YOU'VE ADMITED YOU HERE TO MAKE MY LIFE HARD.FINE! iT WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION & RESPONCE TO MANNI THATS ALL NO WAR INTENDED EVEN THOUGH YOUR STARTING ONE HERE & FOR THE NAZI REMARK...VERY CHILDISH.WHILE IM OFF WASTING MY TIME REASERCHING DYLANS DESPERATION CALLS IN THE UK 60's/70's.YOU TOTTER OFF & READ ABOUT GERMANY UNDER THE NAZI RULE YOU MAY LEARN SOMETHING.YOU MAY ALSO LEARN THAT EVERYTIME THE AMERICAN STICK THERE NOSE IN OUR BUISNESS IT ALL GOES DESPERATLY WRONG..EVEN THERE OWN FOR THAT MATTER. Karn: We can thank our American friends for helping us rid Europe of Hitler. We couldn't have done it without them, I'm afraid. And we are still paying for it!  Never mind the yanks we would never have won without the Soviet Union..so thanks Ivan!

Agreed, but the point KE9 was making was about America not the Soviet Union.