Is there such a thing as "noise prog"?
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Topic: Is there such a thing as "noise prog"?
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Subject: Is there such a thing as "noise prog"?
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 15:57
What the title says. See, in the prog canon thread I contrasted the sort of experimentation usually found in prog to the one you can find in noise rock, which you could call "anti-artistic" almost... so this made me wonder, are there any bands playing a cross between prog and noise? I imagine you could actually do something interesting with that concept. 
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Replies:
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 16:10
Can you give an example of 'noise rock'? I'm not sure what it is.. 
The Mars Volta seem to make a lot of 'noise' Half of 'Frances the Mute' seems to be trying to simulate tinnitus or somethinmg. Good album though! 
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Posted By: Astrodomine
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 16:11
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I think it depends what you mean by "Prog". Do you include sub genres or you just reference prog as in "progressive kind of music"? Lately I've been listening to a lot of John Zorn, who is into every kind of music, specially Jazz and Avant-Garde. Some of his albums include alot of noise elements, like IAO. His record label, Tzadik, has also produced some Merzbow albums.You can also check The Boredoms and OOIOO, both from Japan. They are not "pure" noise but they include alot of noise elements. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 16:31
I think Big Black is the best known noise rock band. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Blacksword wrote:Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 16:34
I do include subgenres, since I guess the other option would get a bit too nebulous. 
Thanks. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 16:40
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Math/Post Rock!
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 17:00
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Could be, the only post rock band I've heard much from is Pelican.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 17:16
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check out Otomo Yoshihide, especially his band "Ground Zero", they tackle all sorts of things from messy jazz standards to improv to sample-based hilarity and it's never quiet or subtle. Null and Void is an, um, noisy place to start.
I would recommend further but I have lost all confidence in my ability to discern what prog is after a week of definition mining in the forum ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 17:37
| John Zorn is right on the mark. Good noise. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 18:35
Yep, the album "Null & Void" by Ground Zero is pretty much the epitome of "noise prog" (and a great album at that). |
Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 19:18
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I think we have different conceptions of what 'noise rock' is in the first place. No, its not rock that just sounds unlistenable to your ears. background info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_rock - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_rock At the bottom is a list of bands considered 'noise'. Many are on PA. ------------- 
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 03:15
Hmmmm.
It does look like noise and prog overlap a lot.  ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 07:10
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Totally off topic, but yesterday a preying mantis showed up mysteriously in our living room. I put it outside rather than in the toaster. Someone mentioned John Zorn, if the rest his stuff is like the new one I got and reviewed recently, he'd certainly fit. Fred Frith has certainly done stuff that fits, particularly in a collaboration with Henry Kaiser I haven't heard in years: Who Needs Enemies? (1983) ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 07:12
His albums aren't really like each other (unless they're in the same series), but he has done a lot of awesome noisy stuff (plenty of beautiful stuff, too, though) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 07:16
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I've added several bands to Math/Post I've described as 'noise prog' ..really, seriously |
Posted By: ClassicRocker
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 15:06
I can certainly second that statement. I just listened to the Boredoms' Pop Tatari album, and there are many moments/"songs" that I would define as noise rock. A friend played some Boris for me a while back; much of it consisted of feedback, which seems to be one of the elements of noise rock. The Mars Volta can be pretty "noisy" at times too. ------------- 
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Posted By: Absurdity
Date Posted: June 29 2008 at 22:25
| check out comets on fire for some awesome psychadelic noise rock. |
Posted By: puma
Date Posted: June 29 2008 at 23:07
| Jessica Simpson could call herself "noise-prog" if she wanted to. Just sayin' |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 05:40
Cool. I might go check out this band when I decide to branch into noise. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 12:34
| Lairs http://www.amazon.com/Drums-Not-Dead-CD-DVD/dp/B000EJ9VUW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1214843563&sr=1-1 - Drum's Not Dead is a great experimental/noise/dare-I-say-progressive album. I highly recommend it!!! |
Posted By: Aspiring hope
Date Posted: June 30 2008 at 16:13
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If I understood the terms correctly, I think Ephel Duath is a pretty enjoyable bridge of prog to noise and a somewhat painful, yet artistic, leaning towards dissonance.
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Posted By: Cthulu
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 00:27
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Well, there's Krautrock (which is as we all know a sub-genre of Prog) band, Faust, whose song "Krautrock" consists of cascading sheets of guitar drones and feedback. I think the band The Saqqara Dogs would also fall into the category because of their noisy Middle Eastern/Arabic influenced experimental rock. ------------- "The Box. You opened it. We came." |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 00:38
See: Flaming Lips' Oh My Gawd... and Telepathic Surgery ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: bazza1963
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 10:55
Yep, check out Jasun Martz "The Pillory / The Battle" . Jasun worked with Zappa and Eddie Jobson in the 70's and released the initial "Pillory" album in 76. The sequel features 115 member orchestra from all over the world playing this incredible orchestral / noise symphony. I played wind synth on this album .
BL, London
www.myspace.com/barrylamb ------------- www.dynamitevision.com |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 11:36
http://www.partchimp.com/ - http://www.partchimp.com/ ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 14:35
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Bogdanovich gets noisy
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: Fight Club
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 10:20
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There's no such thing as noise music. Noise is determined by the communication process, not how pleasant or unpleasant it is to one's ears. If the sound being made is intentional then it's classified as sound, if it's unintentional it's noise. All music is intentional.
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 10:33
poor aleatoric music o:( poor "leaving records spinning for a very long time to the point where they become worn down and scuffed" projects o:( poor found-sound collages o:( poor randomised sound installations o:( |
Posted By: Fight Club
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 12:24
But none of those are intentionally inserted into the music. -------------
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 12:50
As far as I see it, all music is nothing more than noise.
The two words signify the same thing: a perception of the exterior via the ears. 
I will have to disagree with you here and call up the wisdom of John Cage: All sound is music. Surely things that are accidental can be merited as music, whether the accident is by man or by nature. By this I mean that Henry Cow's absurd improvisations are full of accidental noise, but I wouldn't dream of not calling it music! Equally, a waterfall, crafted by nature, makes a very satisfying fwoooosh noise, which I think is a purer form of music. But that's just me...and Cage... |
Posted By: verrata
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 19:42
| Noise rock always seemed a little more punk to me than anything else in its anarchic sensibility. In that regard, The Liars seem to be about on the money to me. However, probably the closest thing youll find to Noise progressive is Tv on the Radio. I think they're also about as close as your ever gonna come to prog-punk either, for that matter. There is a reason their album Return to Cookie Mountain was such a critics darling. A real stew of about every genre you can think of mixed beautifully. Not just noise as chaos as music, instead they find noise (wind chimes, typewriters, tv fuzz) and turn it into music of energy and passion. Very highly recommended!!! |
Posted By: Cthulu
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 22:36
------------- "The Box. You opened it. We came." |
Posted By: Cthulu
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 22:49
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In regards to the question of whether music is intentional or not, I submit John Cage's "4'33" in which the performer sits at a piano completely motionless for exactly 4 minutes 33 seconds, with the RANDOM ambient noises in the performance space forming the "music". ------------- "The Box. You opened it. We came." |
Posted By: Tiresias
Date Posted: July 06 2008 at 12:07
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Noise has been my thing for quite awhile now, and early appreciation of prog and post rock has really helped set the mood. Prog fans could find a lot to like with noise. Most bands use unconventional instruments and experiment with new and interesting sounds and ways to use traditional instruments.
There's also a good amount of vintage synths used by these bands, though they're often unrecognizable due to all the pedal effects and homemade patches they use.
For noise-rock stuff (rhythmic, tribal, choppy, discordant. Good for Krautrock, Industrial, Black metal, Grindcore fans)
- Sightings: Through the Panama
- Wolf Eyes: Human Animal, Dog Jaw
- Prurient: Fossil, And Still, Wanting
- Boredoms: Vision Creation Newsun, Seadrum
- OOIOO: Taiga
- WHITEHOUSE: literally anything
- Sonic Youth: Confusion is Sex, Bad Moon Rising
- Swans: Public Castration is a Good Thing
- Xiu Xiu: Knife Play, The Air Force
- Sword Heaven: Entrance
- Animal Collective: anything, especially Sung Tongs and Strawberry Jam
- Black Dice: Load Blown
- Nurse With Wound: Chance Meeting on a Dissection Table
Droning noise (for fans of Tangerine Dream, Eno)
- Burning Star Core: Operator Dead, Post Abandoned, The Very Heart of the World
- Pocahaunted: Island Diamonds
- Nadja: Corrasion
- Sunn O))): Black One, White1
- Oren Ambarchi: In the Pendulum's Embrace
- Earth: The Bees Made Honey in the Lion's Skull, Earth 2
- Merzbow: 1930, Tauromachine, Tamago
- Stars of the Lid: The Tired Sounds of Stars of the Lid
- Tim Hecker: Harmony in Ultraviolet
- Emeralds: anything you can find
All these bands range from calm ambient music to crushing distortion, whining feedback and tortured screaming. Noise music is not for everyone, but if you can get into the soundscapes or the moods behind the music, it really becomes something special for the listener. Of course, see these groups live. The sound is so much bigger and more enveloping, plus the shows border on performance art.
Noise is an extremely fringe music genre that doesn't appeal to many people. Because of the isolation, some bands (none that I've listed here and, frankly, none worth listening to) espouse extremist views ranging from anarchy to National Socialism. This is seen in other genres, such as black metal, although NSBM is less apparent in message than NS Noise or Punk. I don't support the philosophies of these groups, and don't want PA or anyone else to associate noise or Black Metal with hatred or racism.
I've met several of the artists that I've listed here, and, for the most part, they are non-threating nerds who smoke a lot of weed. They're also extremely friendly and down to earth and actively hang out with fans at shows.
Most of these artists are extremely prolific, releasing dozens of cassettes, LPs, 7-inches and CD-Rs.
Cheers, PA. Any questions? ------------- Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn... 
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Posted By: Tiresias
Date Posted: July 06 2008 at 12:22
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Good examples of noise shows: The International Noise Conference:
http://current.com/items/88854195_the_international_noise_conference_2008 - http://current.com/items/88854195_the_international_noise_conference_2008
------------- Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn...
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Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: July 08 2008 at 20:40
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argh! I wish you would have posted in my OOIOO thread!
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Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: July 09 2008 at 01:36
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the two bands i thought of were Sun O))) and Merzbow. Sun O))) verges on post but barely. Its drone, feedback and effects. Merzbow is strait up insanity in Mp3 format. noise to me is something closer to merzbow.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: Dee Snarl
Date Posted: July 13 2008 at 07:16
I think this is the most functional definition, in the sense that a toilet seat is just an object until Duchamp puts it in an art gallery, when it becomes art (good or not). It's all about context; when something is presented as music, it becomes music. Thus, birdsongs in nature are "noise" (or "not-art"), pretty though they may be, but when recorded and, well, sold, they become art (though I'm not sure whose
 ). Similarly, ambient noise during a piano recital is just that, but when Cage does a silence experiment, that noise becomes "art." But as I type this, I have to say I wonder the line is drawn betweeen ambient noise and art during any performance,especially in rock, when the crowd is supposed to be part of the show etc. Trippy...
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