Bonus Tracks. What do you think?
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Topic: Bonus Tracks. What do you think?
Posted By: The Quiet One
Subject: Bonus Tracks. What do you think?
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 21:21
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Well I necessary think they're worthless. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS but in GENERAL.
I highly prefer JUST THE ORIGINAL PLAYLIST. Eg: Deep Purple's bonus tracks are junky BBC sessions of the same song. TAAB has TAAB live version and I think it's worthless and boring. While the Interview is interesting but just to listen once. Good bonus tracks would be B-Sides or Outtakes or even Live versions. But I generally prefer the Original Playlist without getting ruined with junkies or reapeted songs. I think, generally, bonus tracks are a bad thing that ruin the Original Playlist intended by the Author(band, artist). Discuss. |
Replies:
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 21:24
| The only time you ever get good bonus tracks is when Legacy puts out a Deluxe Edition of an album (an entire concert with Who's Next, The Vanilla Tapes with London Calling, all of Live at Leeds FINALLY, etc.), but for the most part tacking on two generic live tracks (*cough*JudasPriest*cough*) is so pointless. |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 21:54
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Not always interesting, can even destroy the flow of an album, but sometimes this is really a BONUS.
The best example is of course, Jethro Tull which has almost every recording definitely enhanced with those bonuses. Think of TOO OLD TOO ROCK, STORMWATCH, BROADSWORD, TIME WAS and of course, Pablo, we don't want to forget your favorite JT cd...the great WARCHILD
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Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 21:55
| Well, if they're really bad, no one's forcing anyone to listen to the last few tracks, and I can think of many cases where the bonus tracks are great. So, with nothing to lose and something to gain, I can't see a downside to bonus tracks... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 22:03
| flow disturbance is a valid complaint but I think given the choice, it's been a good thing.. the Tull bonus cuts are almost always 1) very good, and 2) a valuable look into the whole material at the time.. or things like finally getting the 'Power and the Glory' title cut was great |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 22:14
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I often buy CDs of my favourite bands exactly because of bonus tracks.
Though I partly agree, listening something after albums' final tracks (especially if finale is great) sometimes ruines the atmosphere. Fortunately CD players have Program buttons. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 22:41
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I don't use the word much as a rule ... I HATE bonus tracks as a rule however Tulls works magic because they seem to have taken songs that blended in very well and kept them very good quality .. but I stand by me prior comment ... they ruin the flow in most cases and take away the nostalgic experience that was offered from the vinyl release. sure you can program edit stop it if you like but Aqualung or Leftoverture which ever CD this has happened with was meant to be heard in a certain way and that was the artists intention many years before CDs ever came out. |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 22:45
| Tull is a good call and I totally forgot about them. Is flow disturbance really a factor? I mean, they are thrown in after the real album is done (although I have heard of a few tracks being thrown in the old track order, which is bad unless you're filling out a live album's setlist), so how does that kill flow? Just take out the CD when the album ends like you would have anyway. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 22:48
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How can they ruin the flow? Just stop the CD player at the end of the regular album and never listen to them. They are worthless, but also meaningless unless you have OCD. Or are extremely inattentive and get halfway through the bonus track before you realize you should have taken the CD out earlier.
I don't care, I almost never listen to them more than once. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 22:54
| Its actually a very very VERY petty argument against bonus tracks: oh it ruins the flow of the album! well....i don't know get over it? at WORST, its extra material that might be interesting to listen to every other time you spin the disc. |
Posted By: Valdez
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 23:02
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I think there should always be a 15-20 second pause between the original album and the Bonus tracks. Most bonus tracks are bogus but I have a few cd's that have a few killer bonus tracks. ------------- https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024 |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 23:11
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its simple: DON'T buy the album with bonus tracks, and thats it! Besides, even if you have bought an album with bonus tracks, well, you are not obligated to listen to them, just like your are not obligated to listen the album itself: you bought the album because you wanted it and, if it has any BONUS, you asked for it because you bought the album with teh bonus! Seriously dude, wtf?!? just don't listen them. -------------   
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Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 23:19
That solution makes no sense. When an album is rereleased (provided we're still talking about a one-disc version and not a deluxe package from Sony/Legacy or some such), the previous incarnation of that album ceases being printed. So people would have to scour Ebay or the Amazon Marketplace or even good old flea markets and used bins to find a copy without bonus tracks. Also, when they throw in bonus tracks, it's almost certain the album got a remaster, so you'd be hunting for a copy that has an older sound. This is only worth your time if the remastering was a hack job (Cruisin With the Jets, those rerecordings of Ozzy's first two albums, etc.). I do agree that it's a silly thing to whine about though. |
CCVP wrote:Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 23:43
Yep, completely agree and apart from a very few exceptional instances, the 'previously unreleased' description merely serves to confirm why.  There are some truly atrocious live tracks being added to most of the reissued VDGG studio albums and these 'baby clangers' only serve to tarnish a great band's reputation. On the plus side, there are some real 'diamonds in the mire' on some of the ELP boxed sets which are certainly worth owning. Let's face it, who wants to see Da Vinci's failed and abandoned sketches that prefaced the Mona Lisa ? ------------- 
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Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 23:53
It doesn't make a difference to me about the tracklist, if you want to hear or see the original tracklisting then don't bother picking up a re-issue and just enjoy it the way it is. Or just cross out the extra songs on the CD case  I always appreciate an added addition of unreleased material, demo versions of the songs (always cool to hear what the song originally sounded like) and live cuts. I think it adds more to the package.
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Posted By: KrakAtack
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 00:06
| Generally speaking I like the original albums because of the flow. However there are exceptions, such as Jimi Hendrix, Band of Gypsies......which was a great original album...however...the release of the entire CD was a double CD which contained much great stuff which blew me away....of course someone else felt the same and stole it...so....... |
Posted By: Prospero
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 01:52
| I usually like them, may it be bass and drums tracks as in Atheist's remasters or previously unreleased songs. I actually discovered a very good song listening Caravan's Land of Grey and Pink's bonus tracks: Aristocracy. |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 02:48
| Can't say I really play them all that often. I usually like the album to end when it was supposed to end. I find demos and single versions of song be be a little useless sometimes. Live tracks are good when the quality is decent (I've never made it through Gog on VdGG's Still Life) but unreleased studios and b-sides are alright a lot of the time. It's hard to listen to them in context a lot of the time, usually if bsides are used as bonuses I try to reconstruct the ep from whence they came and listen to it like that. Bonus tracks... I'm indifferent really, they've never changed the way I've thought about an album, and some of them are good - while some of them I've never listened to and maybe never will. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 02:53
Problem?
Solution!
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 03:41
| Sometimes they're nice, but I still think that if they're worth releasing they should be released as a compilation instead of scattering them on a series of remastered albums. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 04:03
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It depends a lot on the kind of bonus track. If it is a track that was recorded at the same time as the album but only ever appeared on the B-side of a single or the likes then I very much welcome the bonus track. Example given: The remastered release of "The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome" by Van der Graaf has the tracks "Door" and "Ship of Fools" on it, songs that only appear on the live album "Vital"; I think it is great that one can hear the studio versions here too.Tthe instrumental version of "The Wave", which is the third bonus track, was not really necessary though, but I can live with it. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 04:43
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B-sides and outtake tracks I can dig. Alternate/live versions of tracks already on the original album, not so much.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 06:12
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Fill up the CD with bonus tracks! Live versions, demos, radio sessions, tracks previously only available on vinyl, interviews, CD-ROMs...
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 06:21
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Camel has some pretty good live bonus tracks........
------------- |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 09:56
| I love bonus tracks! Old rehearsals, b-sides, live cuts, different mixes, etc. They're great. However I think they should come on a separate disc as to not ruin the flow of the album. Elvis Costello and Rhino records did a great thing by including all related bonus tracks to a specific album on a second disc (they were also kind enough to include liner notes written by Costello explaining the album sessions and time period). 2 discs, great notes all for only 13.99! It was a great thing. Then Costello had to go an re-re-re-reissue his albums again in a completely different way only a couple years later. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 10:29
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Well, I'm in two minds about tthe bonus tracks, sometimes they're worthwhile, at other times they're unnecessary.
As for some examples: Deep Purple in Rock has (in my mind) always been incomplete without Black Knight. So the inclusion of this track alone made in worthwhile.
The bonus tracks on the Jethro Tull albums are'nt worthwhile for those owning the 20th Aniversary Box Set. (Possibly the cause of this set's unavailability is due to the fact that it would make the remasters more interesting?)
I find all the bonus tracks on VdGG worthless because of the sound quality, I don't rate historical significance at all, in this case. Same for Uriah Heep, I guess.
ELP re-issues: A mixed bag, some good, some useless.
But one thing that is beside the point of this thread: I find re-issues generally quite interesting because in almost all cases I've come across, the sound quality has been significantly enhanced, so I tend to get them for this reason alone. The Genesis remasters are a case in point: No bonus tracks, but markedly enhanced audio quality, so worthwhile. Pink Floyd, Rush, and Led Zeppelin - Same thing.
The Yes remasters are mainly good: The bonus tracks on Going for the One, Drama, Tormato are outstanding, whereas the studio runthroughs on albums like Tales are OK, but no more than that.
But then again, as they're almost located after the original album tracks, the argument about harming the flow of an album isn't really valid. Where's the harm in them. If you don't like them, just stop the album after the original listing has run.
So: I find bonus tracks themselves to be usually a hit-or-miss affair, slightly tending toward the latter, I'm afraid.
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Posted By: listen
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 14:48
Or, if you have a computer, upload the cd and burn a disc without the bonus tracks. or make a playlist on your ipod if you have one. or just skip the tracks. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:01
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I'm sure like many, I can set tracks to play on my (multi-disc) CD player too. I love getting bonus tracks, and I rather expect them these days on most re-releases. I expect "extras" on DVDs, and love 'em. As has been said, they're usually at the end, so they don't interrupt the flow. The more extras the better for me. When I'm listening to a CD for the first time, I usually skip the bonus tracks, but usually find myself enjoying them, or at least find them to be of some interest in the future. I do prefer it when they are not just alternate versions of the same song, but don't mind those either. The best "bonus tracks" I can think of are on http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=16677 - Jean-Paul Prat's Masal . There is nearly as much music on the bonus tracks as there is from the original LP "Masal" release, and it's different music that is excellent, but had never been released before. An excerpt from a review to be seen at gnosis: http://gnosis2000.net/reviews/prat.htm - http://gnosis2000.net/reviews/prat.htm
There are quitea few cases where I enjoy the bonus tracks as much as the other music, but usually I just find it nice to have as an extra. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:05
 Yeah Jethro's not so good albums have good bonus material, thx god!
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:10
At last a good, one that I agree fully comment! The rest, sorry, but you're all bashing me, and not really seeing my point, just wanting to avoid it and make me suffer, right? 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:17
pff. Sorry dude I don't live in a place where I can choose bonus or not. So I'll buy any album I want, and not for the bonus but the ORIGINAL PLAYLIST! WTF is your prob! Aqualung with bonus or not... It's like the 6th time it's said that. "Don't listen to them" Well I'm gradually mix up here  Cause I thought I was talking to well Prog Listeners... As much of them love the flaw of the album and like the album from START TO FINISH, without any junky stuff(in general). I want the album 40 min from start to finish not a 60 min and stopping it at 40, you'll think it's kinda lazy my attitude, but it's not, the Artist tended the album to be like THAT and not with some enhanced sh*t! Ok Warchild gets better(EXCEPTION!) And some others too.
Please stop bashing me up. And give some good back-up to make your reply worthy even though disagreeing. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:19
another fine answer!
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:21
This is what I meant! THX for the examples! |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:23
A WELL reply! With good back-up suplying what you meant.
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:36
the bonus tracks on "Pawn Hearts" and "The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome" don't have bad sound quality -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:44
Agreed. They sound as pristine as anything else on the original album. Granted, "Ponker's Theme" doesn't exactly have the same vibe as "Man-Erg," but in terms of audio quality, they're both on the same plane. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 18:18
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Some do wreck an album's feel. As a rule, I can't be bothered to listen through another 20-40 minutes of bonus stuff after a 45 odd minute album. Particular issues are the silly single version inclusions which Camel and Yes are guilty of. Occasionally, a bonus track (see The Yes Album, for instance) is placed so close after the end of the original album that you can't turn it off in time. However, there are some real goodies out there, and I usually don't mind them so long as the album feels like it's got a cohesive ending and they don't seem to be thrown in for the hell of it. Examples of great bonus material include, say, Thick As A Brick live (my opinion only. I like the twists on it), Duulirium (Amon Duul II) and Vevey (from Going For The One). Material recorded around the same time can be quite interesting (e.g. Stand Up, King Crimson's 'Groon') and usually doesn't damage the album. Spamloads of alternate mixes, especially when they don't vary substantially, don't help that much. Live things like Gog (and some of the Camel ones) do actually work for me, as long as they don't feel out of place with the album's mood. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 20:44
People keep saying this. How is this even possible? ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 23:38
Demos, live tracks, alternate versions and stuff with a different vibe would spoil the feel of the original album. But then, if those extras are so bothersome, while not just hit the stop button before they come on? |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 23:51
EXACTLY. There is no problem! The only time tracks are added not at the end is when a live album is bolstered by the complete performance. And when that happens, why on Earth would you complain; you finally get a non-spliced and edited show. |
Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: June 24 2008 at 00:10
I agree with this one, although I wouldn't limit it to just that; both 'Kindermörderlied' and 'Mystic Blutsturz' are also great additions to an already excellent album. I've always loved that about Wolf City.
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 24 2008 at 02:46
I haven't heard "Kindermörderlied", since we don't have "Wolf City" with bonus tracks. the title however, which means "song of the murderer of children", suggests it is the same as "Dem Guten, Schönen, Wahren" from "Phallus Dei", at least lyrically ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 13:16
The more bonus tracks the beter i buy the albums for hard earned money so the more music i get the beter. And usualy bonus tracks rocks! And if you dont like em push the STOP button then for godsake, you lazy dirt bags!  ------------- 
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 13:36
"Mystic Blutsturz" might also be "Henriette Krötenschwanz", at least lyrically. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 13:48
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I seen 2 people complain about the live tracks added to VDGG albums, sure the first time i heard em i tought my player was broken, but now i think they are kinda kewl. And i whuldnt wana live without Squid/squid/octopus live in the studio on H to he... or boat of millions of years on least we can do is... or all the sweet bonus stuff on pawn hearts, thats a good example of when the bonus tracks becomes a part of the album i culdent imagine listen to a plague of lighthouse keepers not followed by theme 1 and W and the Banton composed Diminutions is a perfect spooky ending to the album. -------------
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Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 11:09
| Generally I'm not into bonus tracks and when I'm converting albums to my Walkman I don't do them. I may one day do a playlist of just bonus tracks but it'll have to be raining before I start |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 27 2008 at 22:55
| The bonus tracks on the Tull remasters basically negate the necessity of the Living in the Past set. That's how it should be done. |
Posted By: Jack-in-the-Green
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 09:45
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I agree, they are worthless. For example, the Aqualung's bonus tracks are really crappy. ------------- Sorry if i have spelling mistakes, english is not my mother tongue. 
http://www.last.fm/user/grumfossil |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 10:27
that's mainly because I want to listen the album from START to END with no crappy adittions(again, I know there's exceptions). When I listen Aqualung I want it to start with Aqualung and finish with Wind Up. And as some said, they could put some 10 sec or 20 sec of time to let the album really end like that, not making Wind Up finish and immediatley start the bonus tracks. It's not that I'm lazy to push the stop button, but really guys I want the ALBUM as the ORIGINAL release PLAYLIST. I like some Bonus Tracks but the fact is that why ruin(not always in a bad sense) the original playlist and put the bonus tracks on COMPILATIONS! |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 11:45
*sigh* If I have to run to the CD player and hammer the stop button before a piece comes on, it does damage my immersion. Additionally, if I'm thinking, 'OK, ten seconds to go before I press the stop button', I can't concentrate on the atmospheres and the music exclusively. Occasionally, at the end of an album, I just want to wait there and lethargically sit and contemplate it, which I can't do if I'm forced to press the stop button. As someone who listens to music as much for the atmospheres and lyrical ideas as anything else, I don't especially appreciate having my atmosphere damaged by a sub-par single version of one of the pieces already on the album. Additionally, because I tend to listen to albums as a whole, rather than simply random songs from them, I do place great value in proper foreshadowing, story development and Let us assume that I am listening to Selling England By The Pound. The Cinema Show leads up to Aisle Of Plenty, which is partly a reprise of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight. Hence, it is established that Aisle Of Plenty is more than just 1.49 of music that happens to be put in a final track, it's a conclusion/culmination that has been carefully foreshadowed by previous parts of the album and rounds up the piece. Now, if, at the very moment the fade on Aisle Of Plenty stopped, I were to be accosted by an imperceptibly altered mix/rehearsal of the upbeat, cheery I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe), all of that build-up would be lost, as would the poignant and dark feeling of the album's conclusion. Essentially, it would be a completely different and far less impressive album. To avoid that, I'd have to get up and damage my immersion with the actual content for some sort of meta-game strategy to stop the music on the last note of Aisle Of Plenty. Some albums are a definite cohesive whole, rather than just a collection of songs, with themes running throughout and conclusions highly emphasised. Those with a strong closer that leave the listener with a very bleak or dark feel can usually do without bonuses (unless they fit the feel of the album). Basically, some albums are a very compact entity of their own (Selling England By The Pound), some are just a collection of songs (Camel), some are in between (Crime Of The Century). If bonus tracks don't fit the style and feel of a very compact album, they may damage the experience for me. Apologies for red and bolding. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 12:00
Do you honestly feel that the crappy single version of the already tedious I've Seen All Good People makes The Yes Album any better? |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 22:12
WOW! I think you said it better than me, thx!
GREAT explanation! Thx very much, I hope people understand it. 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 28 2008 at 23:11
...How far away are you from your CD player? Do you have a 20 foot long headphone cord? ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |