Peter Hammil & Rob Halford (Judas Priest)
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49613
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Topic: Peter Hammil & Rob Halford (Judas Priest)
Posted By: peskypesky
Subject: Peter Hammil & Rob Halford (Judas Priest)
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:18
I grew up on Judas Priest and my favorite album was "Sad Wings of Destiny". Now, all these years later, I'm starting to listen to Van Der Graaf Generator and I'm freaked out at how much Peter Hammil sounds like Rob Halford (or should it be the other way around?). At first I thought Hammil sounded like Ziggy-era David Bowie, but the resemblance to Halford seems even stronger.
Very weird....
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Replies:
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 05:32
Its not very wierd Hammill is a so called singers singer in that most other famus singers that have come after have taken inspiration and copied parts of his style allot of famus singers have said Hammill has been a big inspirtaion for thiere singing style. Hammill is much more famus among other artists then with the comon folks i whuld gues.
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Posted By: muellator
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 13:53
Yeah, I've always thought the two sounded very similar. That probably helped me get into them (having heard Judas Priest before VdGG).
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 23:07
This was talked about before; someone mentioned that they'd seen a magazine (either a Swedish or Dutch one) where RH listed his fave singers and Hammill was among them (by the way, it would be RH who sounds like Hammill if one was forced to go there... Hammill started VdGG all the way back in '67 and was recording and releasing material professionally by '68/'69).
Another metal legend who is a Hammill fanatic is Iron Maiden's Bruce Dickinson, who has namechecked Hammill and VdGG on several occasions.
------------- jc
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Posted By: Prospero
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 01:55
Am I the only one who hears a vocal similarity between early Judas Priest and Rare Bird?
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 02:19
I spotted the simularity between Halford and Hammill some years ago. When I pointed it out on this forum, I was almost laughed out of town!
But yes, they can sound similar. I think it first really struck me, hearing Hammill singing 'Take away the threat of death!' in 'Still Life'
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Posted By: kenmartree
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 04:56
^ laughed out of the Bacchus Plateau by this forum? No way
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 05:20
^ I know, hard to believe isn't it..and I've been verbally mugged by disgruntled ELP fans too!
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Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 11:03
When I first became a vdGG/Hammill fan I was surprised at all the subsequent artists that listed Hammill as a favorite/influence; as we've said around here, he isn't famous like Gabriel and Bowie worldwide but the artists know who he is...one of the most important singers in popular music for his time. The most overt tribute by Priest is "Epitaph" from the second album...sounds like an early Hammill (or Queen) ballad, Wilhelmia perhaps?
------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike
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Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 11:06
Blacksword wrote:
^ I know, hard to believe isn't it..and I've been verbally mugged by disgruntled ELP fans too! | Bah, that lot aren't much to be frightened about...there's what maybe 3 or 4 left (and they're ALWAYS "disgruntled"). I wear those attempted muggings as a badge of honor.
------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 14:38
Wow!!! i do listen a lot both singers and never think that they really sound almost the same.
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 15:10
'Epitaph' just IS Peter Hammill IMHO- it reminds me of 'Wilhemina'. There's a particular bit in 'Epitaph' where Halford sings 'yet he shouted out his epitaph...' where you'll swear blind it's Hammill.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 15:13
jimmy_row wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
^ I know, hard to believe isn't it..and I've been verbally mugged by disgruntled ELP fans too! | Bah, that lot aren't much to be frightened about...there's what maybe 3 or 4 left (and they're ALWAYS "disgruntled"). I wear those attempted muggings as a badge of honor. |
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Posted By: peskypesky
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 22:22
salmacis wrote:
'Epitaph' just IS Peter Hammill IMHO- it reminds me of 'Wilhemina'. There's a particular bit in 'Epitaph' where Halford sings 'yet he shouted out his epitaph...' where you'll swear blind it's Hammill. |
OK, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who hears the resemblance. I think I'm going to do a little audio edit to highlight the similarity.
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Posted By: ignatiusrielly
Date Posted: September 12 2008 at 14:07
Here come the tears!!!
------------- Four pails of water and a bagfull of salts
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Posted By: kerosineboy
Date Posted: September 17 2008 at 13:16
I know a good audiologist and he's reasonably cheap! Drop me a line and I will have him give you a free check-up. Your hearing CAN be saved just have faith!
------------- The answer is never where the question is
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: September 17 2008 at 14:02
wow, I have never thought of that! It's actually happening... I don't know if it is the way of singing, it might also be the accent that sounds similar... But well, they both do sing in a distinct way
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 05:53
I get the impression that VDGG is one of those bands that continue to be somewhat obscure despite being extremely influential.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 10:09
Toaster Mantis wrote:
I get the impression that VDGG is one of those bands that continue to be somewhat obscure despite being extremely influential. |
Yes and No. Here in the States the answer is 'yes'. There is no press to speak of and very little airplay save for the odd track on some college radio station. That's on the band itself as they never toured the U.S. You'll get the odd music fan in his 40's or 50's who remembers the band from their college days in the 1970's when your hipper young Americans would turn onto the more experimental European bands.
In Britain, at least, there have been feature length articles in all of the major music mags (and even good coverage in the regular newspapers). I think that even if they're not familiar with any of the music, the average Brit music fan (or maybe slightly above average!) has at least heard the name Van der Graaf Generator. And I saw them 7 times in '05 in the U.K. when they played in auditoriums that ranged in size from 1,500 - 3,000 and always drew a very respectable crowd (some were sold out completely). So, that alone would tell you that there is a healthy following. They're not ever going to be on the 'charts' with a single or album, but they're not completely 'obscure' either. They're at least somewhat known. And they're even more well known in other European countries (but probably less so and more obscure in others still).
------------- jc
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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 10:12
Hmmm. I do remember reading that in Italy they're as big as Pink Floyd, but here in Denmark they're total and utter nobodies.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 11:00
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Hmmm. I do remember reading that in Italy they're as big as Pink Floyd, but here in Denmark they're total and utter nobodies. |
In countries like Germany, Belgium, France, and (especially) Italy, they're definitely a known entity (although Italy was the only place where they could legitimately be called superstars).
I know for a fact that they never played in Denmark (I'm not even sure that Hammill has played there solo, and he's played almost everywhere!) so I would imagine they're pretty obscure there!
------------- jc
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 13:28
Well, "Pawn Hearts" reached Nr. 1 in the French charts too.I remember the book about Genesis by Armando Gallo included a list of some of the charts of other countries to show how high "Nursery Cryme" climbed in them (they were 4th in the Italian charts, if I remember right), and "Pawn Hearts" was at the top in the Italian and French ones.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 16:40
VdGG did have a pretty big following in France but they never had a #1 there (album or single). They did fill some pretty big auditoriums though (check out the YouTube clip of them performing Lost at a soldout show at the Paris Bataclan in '72). I have some 70's boots from France and you can hear by the crowds on these (several thousand in attendance) that VdGG had at least a huge underground fan base.
I do know the Armando Gallo Genesis book (I interviewed Armando a few times for our VdGG book) and the Chart picture you're talking about. It's from the Italian magazine Ciao 2001, Feb '72. VdGG's Pawn Hearts is at numero uno and you're right about Genesis' Nursery Cryme being at #4. Also on there are PFM at #2, ELP #3, and various others (Zeppelin 4, Yes Fragile, etc).
------------- jc
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: September 18 2008 at 17:14
bucka001 wrote:
VdGG did have a pretty big following in France but they never had a #1 there (album or single). They did fill some pretty big auditoriums though (check out the YouTube clip of them performing Lost at a soldout show at the Paris Bataclan in '72). I have some 70's boots from France and you can hear by the crowds on these (several thousand in attendance) that VdGG had at least a huge underground fan base.
I do know the Armando Gallo Genesis book (I interviewed Armando a few times for our VdGG book) and the Chart picture you're talking about. It's from the Italian magazine Ciao 2001, Feb '72. VdGG's Pawn Hearts is at numero uno and you're right about Genesis' Nursery Cryme being at #4. Also on there are PFM at #2, ELP #3, and various others (Zeppelin 4, Yes Fragile, etc). |
There are 2 chart pictures in that book which show "Pawn Hearts" at the top, if I remember right. One is from France and one from Italy. I would really be surprised if my memory is faulty here. It is, however, possible that I saw a different edition of the book. The website "List of the day" also names "Pawn Hearts" as being number one in France and Italy, by the way.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 04:42
BaldFriede wrote:
There are 2 chart pictures in that book which show "Pawn Hearts" at the top, if I remember right. One is from France and one from Italy. I would really be surprised if my memory is faulty here. It is, however, possible that I saw a different edition of the book. The website "List of the day" also names "Pawn Hearts" as being number one in France and Italy, by the way.
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There definitely are not two chart postings in Armando's book (his book was my bible for several years from the time I bought it in '80). There is only the Italian chart listing which shows VdGG at #1 with Pawn Hearts.
I'm not sure how high Pawn Hearts charted in France (or if it even charted at all) but it definitely didn't make #1. The band themselves would have known about it and knowing them personally I can tell you that it would be news to them after all these years. If there was any justice, though, that album would have been a #1 best seller all over the world.
------------- jc
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 07:44
There were 4 chart postings on the same page in that book even, at least in the edition I read. As said before, maybe you have a different edition of the book. You most probably have, since I read a German edition.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 10:05
Pawn Hearts was No. 1 in Italy for 12 weeks.
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 10:05
I know that his initial book was 'Genesis: Evolution of a Rock Band', which he then updated and self-published (D.I.Y. Books, no less!) as 'I Know What I Like'. Then he did a sort of updated cliff notes version of that book called 'From One Fan To Another'. I'll ask Armando about a German (or any other) edition of his book where there were more charts posted and post his response.
It dawned on me that the real tell-tale sign of Pawn Hearts' initial success in France is to look at their itinerary for '71 and '72. They played only a handful of French gigs (you can literally count the number on one hand). It wasn't until the second time around ('75 on) that they did extensive touring there. Charisma and Stratton-Smith would have had them saturate the French market if Pawn Hearts was number one there. They did three major Italian tours in '72 when the album was #1 in that country; in fact, the consensus is that they probably played there too much that year (and it definitely contributed to their breaking up in August of '72).
------------- jc
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 19 2008 at 22:00
You know who also sounds a bit like Hammill? Hillage in Khan!
And I remember Bruce Dickinson calling out Hammill as a mayor inspiration. He truly is a singers singer as someone here said
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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