What defines Prog, for you?
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49567
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 21:35
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Topic: What defines Prog, for you?
Posted By: Treasure
Subject: What defines Prog, for you?
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 13:50
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For me, it's mainly something with a higher quality of musicianship and ideas than average music. Also long songs rule. ------------- 
http://www.last.fm/user/YertGuy - http://www.last.fm/user/YertGuy |
Replies:
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 13:51
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How much a band copies Genesis.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: andYouandI45
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 14:13
haha
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stonebeard wrote:Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 15:03
Progressive music is rock as high art, a special genre that proves that is only for those who are open minded.
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 15:08
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prog is:
rock played by musicians influenced by things other than rock (being influenced by progressive rock isn't enough on its own) unpredictable frequently playful or indigestible music that can require a suspension of belief or the trust of its listeners essentially it is Gentle Giant ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 15:11
Substitute 'something' and 'music' with 'rock', and you'll be there, I guess, at least to some extent. |
Posted By: Genesister
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 15:26
No progressive hip-hop? |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 15:41
best answer |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 15:44
To me 'prog' is short for 'progressive rock', nothing more . Other kinds of music that can be labelled 'progressive' are a different matter entirely. |
Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 16:18
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prog in its purest form is anything that pushes past what has already been done. everything else (jazz, classical, punk influences) are only tools and sometimes add-ons to realizing that goal. |
Posted By: Genesister
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 16:48
Ah, alright then. |
Posted By: grahawk
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 17:41
| Prog always conjours up the worst excesses of the likes of Yes, Genesis, Van Der Graff Generator etc. I don't listen to any music because it's supposed to be Prog. I listen to music because I like it. And some of it classed as Prog. A lot of it is by VDGG, some is by Genesis and some, though not too much, is by Yes. Quite a lot of it is featured on this site even though it's clearly not prog. I've heard more prog like music played by bands in such disparate categories as folk, new wave and house music. But then I don't care. In the end it's fairly meaningless except when it comes to those above mentioned excesses. |
Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 17:43
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"Four Chords That Made a Million" |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 19:10
Didn't you meant 3 chords? "Rock The Casbah, Rock The Casbah . . ."  -------------   
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Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: June 19 2008 at 22:57
Yeah, Wilson said four but I think he was trying to be nice. 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 05:47
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It's whatever you want it to be, and I'm still fighting to get the Wombles in the archives (Mike Batt is a seriously talented musician...) ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 06:13
^ Let's add Abba first.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 07:26
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6kShipYwCk&feature=related -
Indeed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6kShipYwCk&feature=related
 and then there's; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcqupBYxybA&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcqupBYxybA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wZqOsKcwl0 -
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 08:59
Gee wiz! Beats 'Wot Gorilla'! |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 12:07
why there blood coming out of my ears if the volume is 1/10? -------------
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Posted By: ClassicRocker
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 12:44
So: "It's mainly rock with a higher quality of rockianship and ideas than average rock." ?
My god, do you realize what you have done sir?! ...I actually like that Intermezzo song!  ------------- 
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 13:39
Yep. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 15:19
Up there with Sky and Ekseption, I'd say... ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: dzx
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 17:47
Think OutKast fits that bill perfectly well ------------- was that just an Am augmented minor 9th i heard? nice! |
Posted By: Treasure
Date Posted: June 20 2008 at 22:05
Does it O.o
Outkast is pretty different, making concept albums and whatnot, but I would consider prog hip hop to be more along the lines of Toca and maybe even some Upsilon Acrux.
Outkast rules though, I love Roses. -------------
http://www.last.fm/user/YertGuy - http://www.last.fm/user/YertGuy |
Posted By: dzx
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 03:57
------------- was that just an Am augmented minor 9th i heard? nice! |
Posted By: dzx
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 04:00
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sorry forgot to add comment. must check out those bands and possibly add another contender as Ozomatli ------------- was that just an Am augmented minor 9th i heard? nice! |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 10:08
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I think of "progressive" as referring to song structures that progress in a narrative way... not necessarily in a completely linear way that builds up to a climax, just not all cyclically like a typical verse-chorus-verse pop song. A progressive rock song can have a chorus, though, it's just not all the song revolves around.
------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 16:21
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Well as someone who grew up through the 70s Classic Prog era coming to this site has been a
Bit like going to supermarket going to the Produce Dept looking for bananas and finding Chainsaws, but once i waded through the Nuts and Bolts i found my Bananas
------------- 
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 18:22
Yes, as times it can seem a bit like a hardware store.
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 20:42
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PA defines prog for me. Then I wait until someone post a thread and disagree with its' opening statement vehemently.
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Imadofus
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 20:50
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To me, it is rock that is (or at least tries to be) somewhat different from the common pop songs we hear on the mainstream. If they experiment with new structures, or instrumentation, etc, they're prog.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Imadofus - last.fm |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 21 2008 at 21:02
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Whatever appears on PA listed as prog is prog for me. I've dropped it trying to define the undefineable. ------------- 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 10:02
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Here we go again.... For me 'prog' is any music that attempts to confound my habitual expectations of stylistic form. Time for a nap now methinks.... ------------- 
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 14:47
maybe its only undefinable because we are not scholars who studied prog for over half a century and thus we are not able to come with general rules. But neither can the scholars agree with all the rules, so f*ck all that sh*t and be happy!   -------------
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Posted By: Weston
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 15:29
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I don't think you can define prog, but you can list some attrributes.
Pieces longer than 3 minutes.
Unusual instrumentation for the time -- i.e. in the 70's the synthesizer was unusual. Today a crumhorn might be unusual.
Complex arrangments which may include odd time signatures or motif developement
Grandios ideas - i.e. pieces about something other than the mainstream subjects "I love you," "I'm so down she left me," or "I want to party all night."
Singers who sound like they just toked on a helium balloon.
A bass that sounds like it wants to be a lead instrument.
Influence from classical music - i.e. folk or jazz mixed with rock does not by itself make prog.
A piece can have one or more of the above attributes, but they more they have, the more prog they are. (Okay, I was joking about the helium balloon.)
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 15:35
What about side 2 of Tarkus? -------------
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Posted By: Weston
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 16:18
Tarkus has a side 2?
Oh, I see. A Time and a Place could have been an epic. I wish it were longer. It's still prog for me because it has a couple of other attributes in my list. I skip over the other two short pieces.
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Posted By: peskypesky
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 18:12
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To me prog is rock with an added complexity. That complexity can be the incorporation of influences from classical music and jazz, or it can be the use of "strange" time signatures, or it can be compositional complexity (multi-part songs). To be able to play prog necessarily requires advanced musical skills.
Prog is the opposite of punk, which I also love. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 19:58
Now that's some good answer....
And the second side of Tarkus falls into another genre, the songs-which-are-utter-crap-that-happen-to-appear-next-to-prog-masterpieces genre.....There's a lot of those.... -------------
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 20:05
| What defines Progressive Rock to me?....................In a word....................YES |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 20:52
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If it was created by one of the following groups: ELP Genesis Yes Gentle Giant King Crimson |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 22 2008 at 21:56
WHAT? W-H-A-T? SERIOUSLY, WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? come on, side 2 of Tarkus rule! You MUST be kidding T, mah boi! For example: i would take side 2 of Tarkus over the whole Aqualung album any day, and i MEAN it! -------------
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Posted By: peskypesky
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 01:37
ok, i thought this was a ludicrous statement, but i've just quickly sort of skimmed through side 2 of "Tarkus" and (aside from "RU Ready Eddy"), it IS pretty damn good. not as good as "Aqualung", but not as weak as I'd remembered it. ELP really screwed up with track ordering on "Tarkus". They should have had side 2 first (minus "Eddy"). those songs should never have been expected to follow the "Tarkus" extravaganza. Genesis was much wiser with "Foxtrot". |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 02:15
yes... i may have exaggerated... but that genre of song does exist. There's lot of examples! -------------
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Posted By: Andrew A.
Date Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:42
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Here's what defines it for me (some, but not necessarily all of the following at once):
Ambition in structure (using complexity and/or length)
Emotional force (positive and light, or negative and dark, and everything in between)
Virtuoso ensemble playing (NOT endless soloing, thank you)
Challenging - requiring focused attention, and often multiple listens, leading to a deep attachment.
Here's what often appears to be taken for prog:
Length for its own sake
Grandiose concepts and obscure lyrics
Virtuosity as showing off (endless soloing...)
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Posted By: Treasure
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 18:14
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^Well put... -------------
http://www.last.fm/user/YertGuy - http://www.last.fm/user/YertGuy |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 18:29
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What describes Prog?
Go to Nearfest.
 ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Terria
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 19:15
| i think bands that are always changing their song are progressive. like faith no more and dream theater. and they usually have good quality song writing. |
Posted By: Guitar1Jesse
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 21:33
Agreed. Rock for fine artists. Rock for intellectuals. Rock for the analytical mind. Although I've noticed that many non-musical artists (painters, sculptors, writers, etc) prefer simpler rock like mainstream pop/punk/rock. Do you have to be a musician to be drawn to the complexity of progressive rock? Even if you are analytically minded? |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 21:36
| Never knowing. |
Posted By: Xanadu3737
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 21:42
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http://www.metalsucks.net/?p=1541 Rule #1 :D ------------- http://www.wpapu.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 21:59
'Rock for intellectuals eh ?' (That's like I speak your weight machines for the dieting deaf) You ain't from round these parts are ya boy ? -------------
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 25 2008 at 22:41
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Growing up with the classic stuff, I guess what defined prog for me was that moment when, listening to an album for the first time, I either thought 'that is way good' or 'that is the weirdest thing I've ever heard' or some combination of the two. For the classic albums from the early '70's, that generally served well. At the time it was all about skilled musicians playing relatively complex music that engaged the listener, that demanded active listening. There is, to give an example, a reason why Roundabout had to be editing to a little 3-4 minute snippet to be successful: one, AM radio had no way to accommodate lengthy songs; two, your average listener hadn't the attention span to accommodate a 9 minute song. It's the same reason bands like Tool and Mars Volta will never be wildly popular with the masses today.
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Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: June 26 2008 at 02:41
| Songs such as "Firth of Fifth", "Epitaph" and "Take a Pebble" define it for me. The high quality of musicianship, different segments in the songs, and epic proportions of the songs were how I viewed prog. |
Posted By: khammer99
Date Posted: July 01 2008 at 15:02
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Prog is what ever you want it to be. Serious. I'm not trying to be cute or deep or anything. We all have our own opinions about what is prog and what is prog related or prog this or prog that. You can tell by this list that they're as many opinions as people. With that, to me, it's music that contains some pretty complex musical compositions, that float into other types of complex compositions. The music seems to take me to different "places" or takes me though different moods. It makes me sit there and pay attention to it, as opposed to a "pop" song which I can hear in the background and not miss a beat. I need, and want to pay attention to it, to hear all the subtleties of the music. ------------- Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up. - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 02 2008 at 03:44
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^Pretty much describes ABBA. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 10 2008 at 23:06
| prog is music i know when i hear it, you either love progressive rock or you do not, as for what exactly it is, for me, progarchives does a wonderful job of maintaining a way to say what is prog and what is not |
Posted By: 7540113804746400000
Date Posted: July 11 2008 at 10:30
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something you wouldn't hear everyday unless you were trying. ------------- I'm enormously powerful and handsome |
Posted By: Beckham
Date Posted: July 11 2008 at 11:16
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The Beatles experimental timbres, rhythms, tonal structures heard on Rubber Soul and Revolver influenced legions of bands that were to create Progressive Rock. The Beatles Revolver and Sgt Pepper went away from the Western Pop norms of melody, harmony, instrumentation, formal structure and rhythms.
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: July 12 2008 at 01:36
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I figured recently that it's the mind set that defines prog for me... I was wondeing over the fact how artists like say, Magma, Meshuggah, Dredg and Tangerine Dream are all prog while they barely have anything in common, so I realized that true "prog" in its most direct definition is the good old classic symohonic stuff, all prog beyod that is a genre defined by the attitude an artust has towards his music than the actual music itself.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 12 2008 at 01:52
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I believe that despite some guidelines, logic defines Prog.
I found that if we are sure soimething is Prog and there's a certain degree of agreement ....In most cases is Prog
But if we have doubts, there's huge debates and contradictory statements.....Normaly is not Prog.
So leave out the fanaticism for a certain band and trust in your instincts, if you doubt, it isn't.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 12 2008 at 02:04
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what if I doubt and you don't - or vice versa? When there are huge discussions then usually many people think one way, and many others disagree.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 12 2008 at 07:44
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Instinctive knowlege that an artist provides evidence of "creative freedom" within an album. By it's very nature this "creative freedom", simply put, is progressive. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 12 2008 at 12:45
Mike, this almost never happens, even the defenders of a doubtful addition, normally accept a band is not really Prog, then they use other excuses to justify it's inclusion:
Mike..........Check the list of doubtfukl aditions, and you will find in every case, one or more of this ten excuses or other less imaginative to justify an addition of a band everybdy knows is not Prog. So I insist, when people is not sure or this excuses are given, is not Prog in most cases.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: areazione
Date Posted: July 12 2008 at 16:14
To me it's a very simple rule: if you can't estimate when the next beat will come or what chord will be used in the next progression, then you've got progressive music. And that makes progressive music be a very large and broad definition, as it should be by its own (again)definition. |
Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: July 17 2008 at 15:21
A song is a song is a song...
But "Embellishments" with possible influences from Medieval, Renaissance & Classical Symphonic form, Debussy, Stravinsky, Jazz, & Non-Western Music.
In other words... ------------- - Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats - |
Posted By: Starette
Date Posted: July 18 2008 at 06:12
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Highly Polished
Influenced by a higher culture than the cliched society of today
Influenced by extreme Realism
Influenced by extreme Idealism but not in a *conventional* sense persay...
Changes in the melody and/or beat
One or more unconventional instruments to have in a rock band,
...2 or more of the above :) ------------- 50 tonne angel falls to the earth... |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 18 2008 at 06:49
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^Like Can, you mean...
Ooops!
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Starette
Date Posted: July 18 2008 at 16:35
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...what? ------------- 50 tonne angel falls to the earth... |