Gene Simmons insults Radiohead
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49402
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 03:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Gene Simmons insults Radiohead
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Subject: Gene Simmons insults Radiohead
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:24
|
Kiss star Gene Simmons has slammed bands including Radiohead, who he believes put on boring live shows. Simmons said that bands have a responsibility to provide a spectacle for their fans and shouldn't just stand static with a guitar. "I admire bands like Radiohead, but the idea of being that serious? f**k that, get up on stage and blow sh*t up,” Simmons said. Simmons went on to compare live performances to films, saying that they require audio and visual elements.“If you're not fulfilling the visual part it's like watching a movie with your eyes closed,” he told WENN. "One of the biggest compliments we get is (when people say), 'I f**king hate their music but that's the best show I ever saw in my life.'" Radiohead were criticised by music fans earlier this week who called the opening nights of their European tour “terrible”. I just copied this from http://www.ultimate-guitar.com - www.ultimate-guitar.com
Opinions? I think that he was completley out of line saying something like that, and should keep his mouth shut, but at the same time their shows aren't that exciting from what I've heard. I still think Gene Simmons was pretty out of line by saying that. ------------- 
|
Replies:
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:27
When the worst band ever insults the best band ever, all you have to do is just turn the other cheek and let those talentless hacks humor themselves. 
-------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:29
|
It's just Gene being Gene. He didn't really insult their style, so much as point out the difference between a Kiss show and a Radiohead show. One features good music, and a good light show, and the other is a circus. It would be like Dee Snyder saying Thom Yorke wears boring clothes. Obvious, yes, when you're wearing spandex and mascara. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: KeleCableII
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:32
| I wonder what he would have thought of a Gabriel-era Genesis show, haha. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:33
|
What's the insult, really? He thinks that visuals are an important element in a live show. I, to an extent, agree. He also thinks that Radiohead's live shows are lacking the visual part. Big deal. He admits he admires their music/other competence, but thinks they should take themselves a little less seriously in shows. Frankly, his comment is fine by me, and basically uninsulting. He's not 'slamming' Radiohead at all, he's criticising their live visual performance, and he's not doing it specifically to Radiohead, just generally for bands he feels lack the needed live visual elements. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:33
 |
GoldenSpiral wrote:Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:34
| Extroverted 70s rocker dismisses some boring band's boring stage show. Nothing to see here, folks. |
Posted By: fighting sleep
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:34
|
Ahh to think that the spirit of such theatrical performers/bands as Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, and Yes lives on in such an unworthy vessel. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:34
|
I thought it was fine, he states up front he admires them and then explains why he (and many others presumably) feels the visual is a s important as the music.. what's the big deal? For Simmons it seemed fairly tame, and I see his point. |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 16:40
|
Kiss gives me a bitter taste in the back of my mouth. Gene Simmons himself slightly less so, but he's not exactly cheese on a plate, so to speak.
------------- 
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:07
I do agree. But also in some way Gene cannot expect from a prog band extravagant stupid circus show. I dunno about Radiohead really, I saw their clips and the voice is quite pittiful, but that's another topic. What I say is that Gene can't expect a "prog" band playing live like Kiss. There's no need. Ok you can do it the Genesis style, or Yes, or Floyd or even ELP, but the Kiss show is for clowns as Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, Guns, etc. If it was another guy like Dave Gilmour or Peter Gabriel, etc telling that I would be fine, but Gene Simmons telling that it's quite 
|
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:16
|
When there's a reality-show based on an artist's family life, it should be a general rule to strip that character of every inch of credibility.
I enjoy KISS music. But please!
Anyway, I don't think he was insulting or anything. But you don't have to worry that much about what he says... He has a reality show based on his family life, for Who/whatever-you-believe-in's sake!
Now if Bret Michaels from Poison would have said that about Radiohead, then we would have to rally behind the...  ------------- 
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:22
Bret Micheals is 1000 times worse than kiss which are already pretty bad. |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:37
|
You know guys, I'm with Gene on this one. I don't shell out anywhere from 25-100 bucks for a ticket to basically watch 5 guys stand around like I'm watching footage of them in the studio. It's why I'd kill for Bruce Springsteen, King's X, and Peter Gabriel tickets but didn't really get excited when Porcupine Tree came to town. PT's live DVD is one of the best live prog DVDs, but only because of the music. Visually, there is no reason for me to watch my TV screen while it's on. While Gene is certainly just doing this to be Gene, he's got a point and if you look at the more commercially successful prog/related groups (Rush, Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, etc.), the majority of them put on a killer show. Now, commercial gain shouldn't be the reason for doing it, but perhaps if more artists brought an energy to their live shows prog would have been or would be bigger. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:37
|
if this thread lasts for more than 3 pages, then, well, that'll be just sad...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:39
|
hahahah... compared to KISS.. who wouldn't be boring live hahahhah ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:39
Absolutely. And if you read between the lines, it's Gene doing what he always does, and that is promote KISS at every opportunity. He's making sure people don't forget about KISS and their fiery, loud and entertaining shows. I would let Gene sell anything for me.  I think for any band, there should be some room for spectacle. Otherwise, I agree, seeing a group live and having people barely move doesn't really excite me. I might as well buy the live album. Which is why I just don't have such a desire to see live shows anymore. Bands play live to be able to connect with fans. Not to simply play live. A reasonable amount of interaction should be an important part of the show. |
Posted By: listen
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:43
| Different types of music call for different kinds of atmosphere. Do classical orchestras call for explosions and visuals? I think it's presumptuous and naive to say that all music shows should be expressive in the same way, and it ignores that there is a whole range of human expression that can come through music, not all of which involve "blow[ing] sh*t up". |
Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:43
|
Yawns
------------- 
|
Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:56
That's not very fair. I think there is a lot of room for options other than "explosions" and "no explosions". I think Gene's example is one end of the spectrum. And where their music is based on fun, and lacks a great deal of technique and prowess, their draw is to be a visual experience as much as anything. But there is room for exercising some imagination in finding ways to immerse the fans in the live experience by tantalizing not only their ears, but also their eyes. I'm certainly not saying some bands need to hire GWAR to choreograph their shows and design rubber puppets But I have felt a little slighted before when I paid good cash to be in the same room as a band and felt that it might as well have been a studio recording played through giant speakers with mannequins set up in front of me. Then again, some bands do get so worked up by playing their music live that they radiate an aura of excitement that feeds the crowd and sometimes that's all that's needed. But there is a disconnect that some bands have from their audiences where they may as well not be there.
1812 Overture   |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 17:58
|
I sort of appreciate it when a band does nothing for a crowd on purpose. KC are the ultimate example with Fripp confiscating camcorders and stuff. I think KC's next live album should be called "STFU if You Don't Like It" ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: puma
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 18:06
| That's not an insult at all, he's obviously joking. |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 18:14
The problem with this statement is that the second sentence is rendered invalid by the first. No, orchestras don't have laser light shows, but classical isn't rock. I hate to get all Lester Bangs on prog rock (his ultimate nemesis), but rock is supposed to be exciting. Even the soft prog I listen to stimulates me in some way.
But the only human expression that will come through a static rock show is arrogance and superiority. As for your claim about visuals, the three greatest live performers of all time are James Brown, Bruce Springsteen, and The Who. None have fancy visuals and only The Who ever blew stuff up, and that was never in a theatrical way. What they DID do was play with passion and raw energy that they could ride the vibe of a crowd and manipulate it, make it rise and fall with each vocal undulation or each frantic dance move. When a band just walks on stage and plays their studio material by rote (KC might not jump around, but by God they improv like jazzmen, who I identify them with anyway), I don't get worked up for that band. I also hate the school of thought first founded by Zeppelin (a band that I've never understood the live praise for since even their killer live albums show a mass level of disconnect. Yes the playing is great, beyond great, but they have so much macho superiority that video of them leaves me cold) that the band should act like the crowd isn't even there. For the amount of money it costs, you damn well better acknowledge them. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 18:21
|
Except for rare ocassions, live shows are poor versions of music already contained in discs.... In a way, the reality-show-star is right. Except for my favorite bands, I don't see much point in going to see a live performance where the sounds is weak and ear-harming, the performances are either too fast or too slow, the band makes mistakes and there's a lot of other idiots that don't let me hear sh*t. So in a way it's correct if a band does something else on the stage other than stand around. Is not that Yorke is such a beautiful sight to behold anyway. And it's not that we're talking about more profound music that can survive a completely serious performance. -------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 18:31
|
amen brother T... you go to a live show ..... to a KISS show to....party.. to see 50 yr old biker chicks lose their shirts... for the whole experience of the spectacle of rock music....not a field trip for frickin philosophy class hahhaha. Long live Gene.. and Kiss... what music needs to everything in perspective ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 18:33
You've seen the 2-disc Led Zep video? And you can't tell the difference between those early shows they did at the Royal Albert Hall and the later ones at Madison Square Garden and all? Seems to me they developed quite a stage show! Jimmy Page's act, in particular, changed radically over the years. From a rather shy super-musician he changed into a Performer, whose every move was timed. Apart from that, they truly communicated via the music they played. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 18:33
ahh, so it's just cause Radiohead doesn't have nude chicks there in their live shows. Now I get it. Then Gene is RIGHT! If no nude chicks in concert then the concert is bad!
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 18:50
ahhhh... thus we come to 'MIcky's 5 laws of the truly great live concert experience'... 1. Breasts... and lots of them 2. Vomit ... deduct points if it is not your own.. even more if it ends up on you... 3. Pain... music so loud your ears hurt 4. Blood.. deduct points if it is your own... deduct even more if you have to be carried out on a stretcher. 5. Traffic.. deduct points if you are home in less than an hour... add points if it takes more than 3 hours.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 18:57
hahahahaha. EXCELLENT rules, someday when I grow up I'll aply them to all my concerts. Some clappies to Micky's 5 Law!
Though some concerts would be rare to aply them, imagine if I would aply those rules on my Al Di Meola, Jean Luc Ponty and Stanley Clarke(acoustic) concert! That would be -100, I think, what do you think?
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:02
hahhaha.. exactly.... but not till you are 18 my son... otherwise I'd have to paddle your ass ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:03
|
Well I think the next step is obvious for Radiohead: make spacesuits.
------------- 
|
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:03
That is amazing Micky  -------------
|
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:47
Let me see....ehhh... except for Black metal, where we can find all but # 1, I don't know of any genre which would comply with this very coherent set of rules....
Mmmm...
You're basically saying that to enjoy a concert you have to go incredibly drunk... because if you're drunk: a)you're going to vomit on yourself; b) Not only music, everything will be painful.. the morning after; c) There's a good chance youl'll see some of the red vital liquid, especially if you start to try to get #1 with someone who already has someone who is also drunk; d) Driving while drunk adds a lot of traffic to the road, even if it's empty. And of course, e) if you're enough drunk you'll start seeing breasts even in manly chests....
In the end, going to concerts is only an excuse to drink and get wasted. Therefore, once again, the reality-show-star is proven right. Let's all enjoy our cd's at home and let Thom Yorke decide if he wants to bare... -------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 19:57
hahahhahah... oh yes Teo... there are several.. but none that I expect many here at all have probably been to ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 20:32
|
How is that out of line at all? I think you're being far too sensitive about this. It's hardly even an insult if taken seriously, and I don't think he was being completely serious.
Now Mike Patton insulting Wolfmother..OH MAN! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Valdez
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 21:34
agreed... have a beer and dont take Gene Simmons too seriously. Radiohead is a different animal altogether. ------------- https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024 |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 21:47
| Kiss showman ship is very good if only Ace didn't play so many bum notes ... bum notes are not what I call good for the show. Gene needs to refrain from saying this stuff about other bands that is no way to get publicity. |
Posted By: reality
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 23:03
I agree. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 23:16
|
Let's look at the facts, which are #1, that he is a has been, and therefore #2, he needs to stir up some interest in his 'name recognition'. So why not trash a reasonably popular contemporary band. It will get the odd headline or two.
Too bad he feels that Radiohead needs some visual elements. Kiss was invariably in need of some musical elements.
|
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 23:22
^ true.. though I'll say if Kiss had never written a good pop tune ('Calling Dr Love' anyone?  ) they would not have been as successful, fire-breathing and costumes and all |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: June 13 2008 at 23:36
|
^ Well I won't argue that. Found myself jamming with the boys to 'I wanna rock & roll all night...' one evening and yeah, enjoyed it. But Kiss and Radiohead is apples and oranges, and I'm not a huge Radiohead fan. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 00:02
|
A Kiss show is probably a sh*tload better than a Radiohead show...
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 02:34
|
I always see Kiss when they come to Australia ... one reason the show ! fans like to get it on it too 4,000 Gene Simmons walking around when you go in the concert arena scary ... great fun Kiss concerts are a blast. They have awesome stage props and they spend a ton of money you can tell and they seem to put on a different show every time. With Kiss its more than about the music its about the escapism and a window in time back to youth while it lasts. Kiss are great on stage but lately the things Gene is saying I find a bit egotistical I think he should refrain from saying this stuff ... we know its true. |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 03:03
|
I never thought I'd agree with someone like Gene Simmons, but he has a point. Maybe not the "blowing s**t up part, but considering the size of the venues Radiohead are playing, most of the fans can't even see what they're doing, they should at least give them something interesting to look at. Maybe an elaborate light show and giant screens with crazy animations and stuff. From what I've seen of live Radiohead, they don't have much of stage presence, and don't really put any effort at all into getting the audience excited. You get the feeling that they don't even really care about the audience, at least KISS puts a lot of effort in pretending to. ------------- 
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 03:13
|
^ I've always wondered why people put the "stage presence" and visual qualities of a music concert above the actual music. Maybe that's why I don't often see bands live ... seeing how all the other people in the audience don't care about the music makes me feel like some kind of freak.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
|
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 03:15
KC does nothing for the crowd? Fripp may be the the biggest audience hater in rock, but that's part of the reason he recruited Adrian Belew. While the other members hide in the back, play their parts, and avert their eyes, Belew is up there keeping the energy going and making sure the audience is having a good time. -------------
|
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 03:18
It's not the most important part, but it's an important part regardless. The fans want to feel like their support is appreciated, and it's difficult to feel that way when the whole band is facing away from the audience, and don't look like they're having any fun at all. -------------
|
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 03:18
|
I don't go to shows. I'd kind of like to, but I live in Indiana. And really, prog is not known for being overly fun...but it can be. I don't get much of a kick out of just seeing a band in person, so I want to show to kick ass, you don't get visuals and explosions on headphones.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 04:11
About 3 years ago I saw the Flower Kings ... during the performance Roine said something which I can't remember word for word, but he was asking the audience whether they're having fun and - after receiving a positive response of course - explained that they were having fun too, although it might not always look that way. Their show was a lot like what you can see on the "Meet the Flower Kings" DVD (it was the same tour, actually) ... they were quite "static" on the stage. The point is that as soon as you move around much on stage and try to look "hyperactive", the musical performance will suffer. Of course you can try to switch between running around on stage during easy parts and "static mode" during difficult parts, but progressive music has a tendency to be difficult throughout a piece. So - the more musically demanding the music is, the less "stage acting" should be expected. BTW: A few months ago I saw Symphony X at the same venue. They were as static as The Flower Kings - with the exception of Russell Allen. Now of course it's a definitive advantage when a band has a full time singer ... he has plenty of time to interact with the crowd, and when he has nothing to do (intros, solos etc) he can mosh and dance and effectively become a member of the audience. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 04:49
|
It's not so much the visual aspect, but just demonstrating a passion for the music and showing your appreciation for the audience. I wouldn't consider "Meet The Flower Kings" a static performance at all, even if it lacks lasers and explosions and stage diving. You can feel the chemistry between the band members, and their passion for playing comes across in the music itself. I recently saw Neal Morse perform a solo show in a run down chruch in Long Island. There couldn't have been more than thirty people in the audience. Regardless, Neal put on a great performance, frequently thanked the audience for coming, took requests (including a song never played before live), and generally appeared to be having a good time. There were no lights or pyrotechnics, just Neal and his guitar and piano. Stage presence doesn't have to be about costumes or special effects, but it still needs to exist in some form. Radiohead fails in this department. If the passion for the music isn't there, they should at least increase the visual aspect of it, so that the fans can feel something. If Gilmour-era Floyd could pull this off well, I don't see why Radiohead couldn't at least try. -------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 05:49
I think his talent probably was probably more on Fripp's mind than how well Belew could shake his ass on stage hahahha. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 05:57
|
Well of course, if you're gonna be in KC musicianship is top priority, but he also needed a frontman, and Belew is definitely the most entertaining frontman KC have ever had. The fact that he's not afraid to entertain the audience even in the presence of The Fripp just makes him that much more amazing. -------------
|
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 06:13
|
I think a balance should be found between putting up a show like KISS's, which seems to privilege the visual aspect over the musical one, and Radiohead's just standing on the stage and doing their thing as if they didn't care a lot about their audience. Bands like Rush, to make just an example, manage to be entertaining in a visual sense while making absolutely great music, so that a gig of theirs is a complete experience. As much as I dislike Gene Simmons, I think he did have a point - though he probably chose too easy a target for his criticism. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 06:29
|
This is why I like seeing bands in smaller venues, there not big enough for some silly pyrotechnics which can become a distraction more than anything else, but allow the band to get close and interact with the audiance. When I saw Pain of Salvation headline last years Summers End festival, I saw the bas player Simon Anderson get down on his knees and pose with those in the front row (who sat on the edge of the stage for them) for pics mid song, and I didnt notice any drop in the bass playing either. Still remains the best live performance I've seen.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
|
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 11:00
I'm pleased he didn't go for the throats of a prog band I like, had he done that I would have cut his tongue off and shoved it down his leather pants. 
|
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 11:23
|
O.K., mega big rock star that typifies all that is "evil" about music to some elitist yahoos makes subjective comment about one of his fave musical acts' lack of showmanship live .... Somehow, we, as a mass of petulant posers should rise and smite said MBRS for saying what many concert-goers think - why go to a show to hear the record ? (massive editing of rambling on semi aimlessly for point) Anyways, what's wrong with expecting to enjoy a concert. For whatever reason that might be. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 12:12
|
Do people have such a short attention span that they need lasers and giant video screens and firebreathing and dancers and what was I saying? ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 12:40
|
Posted By: xenuwantsyou
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 13:20
| I thought radiohead's lights were just fine the other day. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 13:33
True, but the man does have a point. A live show should be more than just 4 dudes with guitars standing still. I wouldnt go as far as saying they have to go as far as Kiss, but something in between would be nice, like Muse´s current shows... which I can´t afford to see cause all the "cheap" tickets are sold out  ...I put "cheap" cause they weren´t very cheap to begin with, but at least affortable------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
|
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 15:47
They wrote several good pop tunes , and to be honest GENE is right Thom Yorke is sooooo boring.
|
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 16:32
ohh.. I already wanted to aply it now!  hehe.
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 16:38
|
There was a lot of great prog going on when KIZZ was at their prime. A little anecdote from high school, 9th grade if I recall, I was a big fan of the Dixie Dregs and one of my classmates was a big KISS fan. In science class he set up a beaker with shells in it, put in a stopper at the top and squirted hydrochloric acid down the tube. Fortunately he didn't burn his face off when the stuff squirted him. He was making fun of me at the time for being a Dregs fan, I ran in to him a year or so later in school and he had become a Dregs fan... Anyway, I love the Dixie Dregs and Radiohead. I don't care about or for KISS. Onward and Upward with the self promotion, Gene! ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 17:10
|
A very interesting debate, this- I'll throw in my two cents...
I guess I have an old-fashioned approach in that I tend to like some sort of presentation skill in rock concerts. I have an open mind as to how this is done- whether the performer establishes a rapport with the crowd (Elvis, The Beatles, Bruce Springsteen etc. did this) or whether they use special effects to try and add something to the music experience.
Part of the reason I love Genesis so much is because they managed to do both with Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins. Both frontmen always made some attempt to reach out to the crowd, whilst the stage show was amongst the most dazzling in rock- from Gabriel's bizarre costumes to the full-on Vari-lite spectacle (it has been claimed Genesis were the first to use the vari-lite). Generally, I think they managed to weld this presentation to the music as well- look at 'The Lamb...'. It was as much a visual experience as a musical one based on the (limited) footage I've seen, which was daring for the time. David Bowie managed to do exactly the same thing at his best, presenting a show which was as much a visual experience as a musical one. Queen's approach was different- there's less dramatics than Genesis or Bowie, but the pyrotechnics were used to entertain in conjunction with a flamboyant frontman. It still worked a treat IMHO.
Bands like Pink Floyd and, more latterly, Muse, don't tend to have that same rapport with a crowd IMHO, BUT they employ a spectacular stage set which was something to behold. However, there are an increasing amount of bands who do neither- particularly in the UK. From what I have seen of Radiohead, I will say that they don't seem to engage the crowd too much in either way IMHO. Led Zeppelin are an interesting case- at their best they were untouchable and Robert Plant was/is a great frontman, but their 30 minute solo spectaculars smack me as the ultimate in rock star self-indulgence which is why I am always shocked how they often avoid being criticised for it. I adore Zeppelin's music, but I can't abide those drawn out guitar/drum solos such as you see in 'The Song Remains The Same'. There is no real attempt to engage or even acknowledge the crowd in those moments IMHO.
I do think it is a requirement of a performer to acknowledge the audience. Whenever I watch coverage of festivals or charity concerts, I am always shocked at how poor UK bands are at this these days. Take 'Live Earth' last year- I'm not a fan, but I thought the Foo Fighters were such a breath of fresh air when they appeared there last year after the UK bands that looked incredibly awkward in a stadium situation as they really brought some energy to the thing. The 'indie rock' ethic of no frills is all very well, but these bands simply cannot cope when they are plunged into stadiums and get swallowed whole IMHO.
However, there is a downside to spectacle as well- I don't know what the spectacle ever really added to Kiss' music. I have a copy of 'Alive' and used to have some of their other stuff, but they have always smacked me as the epitome of the 'style over substance' act. I remember saying to a friend that whilst bands like Kiss and Motley Crue are very well known amongst the general public, how many of those people could even name one song they have recorded? This also happened with Rick Wakeman's 'King Arthur On Ice' spectacle and David Bowie's 'Glass Spider tour'- they do little to help the music and if anything, reduced the artists to a laughing stock. In the case of the Glass Spider tour, it has a certain car-crash value in that it's such a wreck you can't help but watch it!
I do think it's hard to achieve a good balance of 'show' and 'music'...but artists should at least try IMHO.
|
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 17:45
|
I think Radiohead suck, so i support Gene in his opinions. I saw them on Jools Holland's late show, and everyone watching with me agreed they sounded utterly sh*t. I saw some of their earlier gigs after OK Computer came out and i still wasn't impressed, they're not even remotely progressive. The only real progressive material i've heard from them are the songs sampled on this site (Paranoid Android, Everything Is In The Right Place), but after buying three of their supposed best albums (OK Comp, Kid A, In Rainbows), the only thing i really liked was the packaging for In Rainbows! If i ever went to one of their concerts, i would probably want to kill myself, honestly: what is their appeal? I'm cool with creating a dark atmosphere - in fact that's my favourite kind of music: VDGG, Opeth, Tool, TMV - but there is no need to be repetitive and dull with it. I just think they are unskilled and underdeveloped and overly overated. I much prefer Muse, as said above, they put on a damn good show, they have direction and they still create a pretty damn dark atmosphere (Butterflies and Hurricanes, New Born). There's my opinions. Gene rocks and i agree with him. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 17:47
|
Gene Simmons insulting Radiohead is a little like a newt gnawing at your ankle. It doesn't really hurt but it feels a bit slimy afterwards. (borrowed and altered from Molly Ivins)
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 17:48
I never say this because I'm nice, considerate and long-form when it comes to representing my opinions. However: FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAILFAILFAILFAILFAIL ;P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: listen
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 17:50
I agree. But my basic point is that not all music (even all rock music) calls for raw, aggressive energy like Kiss. I think people should be more open-minded and less categorical in their statements/opinions. |
Posted By: listen
Date Posted: June 14 2008 at 17:56
Thats my point. |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 04:21
Come on, if Radiohead is the best band ever than i'm Elvis Prestley, is a good band but nothing more in my opinion.
 About what Simmons says, he's opinion anyway and i saw some Radiohead shows and is damn boring, sorry to deseppoint fans but is what i think, is not among my fav bands. |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 04:33
Well said pal
|
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 04:51
|
So what is Simmons suggesting, should Radiohead shows include tricycle-riding Sabretooths, the members of DT hanging upside down juggling wine bottles and a real UFO landing at the very end? This is supposed a Radiohead concert, not a Wagner opera! (Mind you, I'd pay to see this... about one euro) I'm not that much into Radiohead, but I agree with Mike, a concert is about music, not about visual BS. Now, IMO a band should have some sort of musical idea to make their concert more than just the live equivalent of a "Best Of" CD + promo of a new one. Extending the songs, improvising, whatever. Kibble_Alex - just you wait until Certified sees your post, just you wait |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 05:54
|
^ very well put. The live show should be about the music first and foremost, but of course it's cool if the band can add to the sonic experience. I just don't like if the "acting" interferes with the musical performance.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
|
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 08:13
I can't wait either But seriously, you should all stop listening to f**king Radiohead and put some good modern bands in your CD players like Porcupine Tree, TMV, Tool or Opeth... ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Repner
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 10:52
|
I've never been to a Radiohead show myself, but a friend that did told me it was the most boring gig he'd ever been to. Thom didn't even speak to the audience the entire night.. And this is coming from someone that is really not a fan of Kiss ------------- 
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 11:33
If only he'd worn black and white makeup, platform shoes, and spit blood with a long tongue. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: cookieacquired
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 15:58
This is Thom Yorke, and now you can in stores buy the official Radiohead toothbrush, condom, or coffin. That's right be buried with your favorite rock idols. or radiohead action figures wow radiohead should sell out ------------- 
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 16:11
well if you do.. and I am not trying to corrupt you... just keep you from making bigger mistakes A) go with 50year old biker chicks over the 20 year twits.. you'll come to forget the sagging and drooping after the experience of having to listen to a 20 year old assault your ears with speech afterwards B) Vodka works best... and pass on drugs... the contact high at good shows is enough C) ear plugs always work.... worked for me at the George Michael show I saw in '88. Falling asleep during the show gets you bonus points.. well from me at least... deduct points.. major points if you fall asleep at a show you take your girlfirend too.. a BAD move indeed D)bring a best buddy to bleed for you while you hide if it becomes necessary. That works well when you have insulted 2 biker dudes by telling them their woman are as ugly as their rides... E)make sure you have a copy of ELP's - Welcome Back My Friends to pass the time while sitting in Traffic ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: tardis
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 16:24
|
Yeah baby, let's blow sh*t up!! Who gives a stuff about music quality?
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 16:26
and you imply KISS is NOT about musical quality... ' I hope the four guys who make up the group, whose names don't matter, are putting money away for the future. The NEAR future, because KISS won't be around long' Seattle Daily Times May 27, 1974 what is quality... but for making music that people enjoy brother.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 16:40
|
^If I were to do poo in bags and sell them and make poo popular, it's still poo isn't it? Enjoy the turd all you want, poke it, throw it in someone's eye, but that turd cannot be turned into gold or polished for that matter. ------------- 
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 16:47
hahahhaha give me a Rolls Royce .. and I'll abuse the hell out of it like my old '78 Chevy Monza and blow the f**ker up racing a Corvette... one man's poo is another's gold.. and vice versa... the thing is brother.. calling it poo here in a prog forum will make your opinion sound better.. but calling it so does not make it so. Some here turn their noses up at groups like AC/DC and Kiss simply because.. it is simple.. or appeals to the lowest denominator... but what you call poo.. is exactly what the rest of the rock population might say of our music here .. in large part due to the fans.. who are too egg-headed to appreciate anything less than 5 minutes or with lyrics you don't need to be on drugs.. or have a college degree to interpret ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 18:44
|
I hate Kiss because I find their music uninspired and Gene Simmons is one of the few humans on the planet Earth whom I truly want to die very very soon edit: I would have said this if he insulted any other band as well, I just dislike the man intensely ------------- 
|
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 15 2008 at 20:32
AMEN
-------------
|
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: June 16 2008 at 12:12
|
It's true guys! music is allowed to be fun! ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: khammer99
Date Posted: June 16 2008 at 14:58
Right on!!! A stage show is especially critical to the success of a show! No stage show? Just buy the album, and save yourself some cash! It doesn't have to be all flash pots and blood. Iggy Pop put on the most compelling shows, all without the aid of special effects. It doesn't surprise me at all that a boring band, puts out a boring show. ------------- Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up. - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: June 16 2008 at 15:27
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo..!    ------------- 
|
Posted By: Valdez
Date Posted: June 16 2008 at 16:29
|
Kind of like being insulted by Don Rickles. ------------- https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024 |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 16 2008 at 17:06
|
also, I understand Gene's point, it just kind of seems like he made the comment more to stir up controversy than anything one of the best shows I've seen was The Mars Volta, because they really got into the music...also Cedric climbed on sh*t which was great in its own right -------------
|
Posted By: JesusisLord
Date Posted: June 16 2008 at 17:26
|
Kiss Sucks... But i have to admit, what He said was funny... ------------- And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Phillipians 2:11 |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 16 2008 at 19:12
Double Amen P.S. If you're looking down your nose at people, please remember what sight they are enjoying ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 16 2008 at 19:20
Funny how easy it is to prove how bad the music is that is made by groups who've managed to maintain their popularity ( I know that being popular is a bad thing in the eyes of many here) over a few decades. Imagine if someone mentioned that the simple fact that some folks are still discovering & liking Faust's debut even after 3 decades is taken as proof of its' quality. Yet, Kiss, AC/DC, Zep, Elvis, Moody Blues and other such "mainstream" acts only serve as examples of the hoi polloi's inablilty to see through their lack of talent. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 03:52
|
I just saw KISS playing in my backyard (Goffertpark in Nijmegen). I realy think mister Simmons has a point here. The Kiss show was spectaculair! Lots of light effects, fireworks and ofcourse the outfits of the bandmembers. This makes the show. I also like their Alive records and so a great concert was born.
In progressive rock, bands have the tendency to just play their music on stage and nothing more. This, being very contrary to the starters of the progscene like Velved Underground and Pink Floyd and many others who were the first to use visual effects on stage. I think there is really space for some progression on stage! So, Gene sounds a bit harsh, but he does have a point.
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 06:52
Saaay, you're not a chimpanzee by any chance? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: boostermeijer
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 09:38
|
Why does a piece of a Jim Steinman lyric pop into my head?? "Dad, you know I love you...but you've got a hell of a lot to learn about rock and roll" Wasn't Kiss' biggest US hit called Rock And Roll All Nite?? They earned their place and so did Radiohead, it's just on different planets! You can in fact visit them both!
|
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 16:34
|
He's dead right. I walked out halfway through a Radiohead gig because they were so boring and so poor. I have no particular love for Kiss but I suspect I'd rather watch them than Radiohead any day. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 16:49
|
Gene Simmons is the only thing on Earth that Chuck Noris is afraid of, so in my book he can say whatever he wants.
In this case, he also happens to be right - give me a KISS concert over any of that Radiohead drivel. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 17:16
|
I heard an amusing story on the radio today about a Kiss concert. Someone asked Gene the strangest thing anyone ever threw on stage, and he said that one time someone put a naked baby on stage. They stopped playing to avoid permanently damaging its hearing, but the parent refused to take the baby back until they all signed the baby.
Now, do you think a Radiohead concert was ever that interesting? ;-)
http://www.drzoltan.com/waronfun.php - No more fun! Fun is for people who cannot think of anything important to do! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 17:24
Probably that baby was actually Thom Yorke... hence his always fearful face and whiny lyrics...
To be honest, OK Computer destroys any KISS album, and HARD.... but for a live performance, I guess I'd also choose seeing fire blood and costumes over this:
 -------------
|
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 17 2008 at 18:22
|
Haha, that might explain a lot.
I wouldn't go that far, since I really am not a fan of Kiss...but Thom does look extremely unpleasant in that picture. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |