Having expelled that first Asia album from my music collection some twenty years ago, I recently picked up a copy of Anthologia for the princely sum of $11.00.  I had not heard them for a while and, having declared myself a member of the Spandau Ballet (and 80's synth-pop in general) fan club in another thread recently (with tongue not firmly implanted in cheek), I thought I'd give them another listen.  Hey, why not.  $11.00 won't buy much else these days.

So what do I newly discover but that I actually like some of their stuff.  Sure, it's not prog, but it is surely as good as most of your standard 80's synth-pop, maybe even a step or two above that since there is some decent musicianship (as opposed to mere production wizardry) involved.  It occurs to me that much of the disappointment in Asia comes from the simple fact that at the time, given the band members' pedigrees, we expected so much more.  What we got is a very good band playing some very good pop-rock.  I think they all in terms of the quality of the music acquit themselves pretty well -- particularly Wetton and Howe.  As for the quality of the songwriting, well let's just say it fit the times.  And it is a slog to get through that second CD, which of course is the later music.

So what do you think?  Do we want to buy Phoenix and encourage these guys a second time around or should we Just Say No?

I always laughed at the negativity toward Asia by the so called enlightened  "critics" right from the get go. They blasted and derided progressive rock in the 70s for being to long winded and self indulgent and made fun of these bands for an inability to write a 4 minute melodic rock song with a hook. They fell all over themselves forecasting the death of prog as they praised the rise of punk played by guys who couldn't hold a candle to the top prog rockers in the musical talent department. Then, when Asia's first album comes out and the thing is filled with melodic, well played 4 minute rock songs with catchy hooks, they deride THAT as selling out for big bucks and underplaying their talent etc. It was laughable. And on top of that of course, you had the prog elitists abhorrent in their scorn for some of their heroes to be 'selling out'.  The bottom line is that the first Asia album is filled with killer songs done in a streamlined manner. They could have all been proggier if they had included extended soloing, but they purposely did not do that because of the times. Sure, this is not deep material, but it was a breath of fresh air at a time when new wave weak ass synth pop, with androgynous frontmen and wimpy vocals, were dominating the charts and airwaves. That first album sounded nothing like the tinkly weak synth pop of the time, which is why it was such a breath of fresh air at the time.

Phoenix is easylistening prog which is nice to play in the background when you're having friends over for dinner. It's far from as demanding as serious prog, but serves a purpose in some situations. It's music for enjoying in the background and not when you need to put on your headphones and enjoy the music with all senses.

Looks like I may need to pick up a copy of Phoenix.  As mentioned, I was disappointed in that first album when it came out.  I was an old prog fan and had expected so much better from these guys, and at the time I was not real tolerant of bands I perceived to be selling out.  Funny... distanced from its era by 25 years, Asia now sounds pretty damn good.  I'm also a lot more tolerant  than I used to be.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Dr. Prog wrote:   I don't know how there could have been such big prog expectations. If you had been listening to UK in the late 70s, especially the second album (listen to Nothing to Lose), and were familiar with the Drama album released by Yes in 1980, and were also familiar with the Buggles, and were familiar with Wetton's solo album at that time,     Yes, I had been listening Drama, which I consider the best Yes album since Relayer, with great tracks as Machine Messiah, UK was an outstanding band with 100% Prog tracks like Danger Money, Rendesvouz 6:02, Cesar's Palace Blues. Alaska, etc.   It's so clear that UK is in a real Prog sub-genre as Symphonic, while ASIA is in Prog Related which means NOT PROG.   The Buggles, made a totally different style of music when alone than when they joined Yes   So as a fact listening the names Wetton, Downlnes, but specially Palmer and Howe, I expcted something more solid, probably not epic, but at least experimental and explorative, more challenging than what ASIA is in my opinion.     I like Drama a lot, but its not nearly in the same class as GFTO of course. However, a track like GFTO surely was a preview of what Howe would be doing on Drama. In your face, almost punkish guitar playing.   And again, the song Nothing to Lose by UK, a Wetton composition, is almost IDENTICAL to the songs on the first Asia album, and would have fit very well on that Asia album. I don't care what category you and other people on PA label those groups----I trust my ears.   Dr. Prog wrote:  and on top of all that, realized this "supergroup" was not some artificial corporate creation (as is commonly wrongly assumed) but simply the result of a writing partnership by Wetton and Downes, who wanted to in fact write good melodic prog/pop songs, than Asia was not only a very reasonable result, but a very logical result under the circumstances.     Corporate or not, it was a Supergroup, but I don't believe that ASIA is a great achievement for the importance of the musicians involved in the project, I am sure theycould do better.   Do better how? That first album is full of great melodic power prog/pop songs very well played. There is not a bad tune on the album. So it does not matter what you label it, it was good. It doesn't matter what you thought they could do, they did what they thought was best at the time.     Dr. Prog wrote: Anyone who would have been expecting 20 minute Yes like epics with solos galore had to be out of their gourd. That style of music was absolutely gored by the music press who were championing prog and new wave, and completely out of favor with the public. Prog was criticized for not being able to deliver well played melodic tunes that were simple and not full of goofy fantasy stuff.     I was not expecting 20 minutes solos, that's not all what Prog is a about, I was expecting something elaborate, with interesting arrangements, not plain and simple AOR (Which is what ASIA is in my opinion).   like I said, there was your mistake. If you had followed the logical progression of GFTO, UK, Wetton solo, Asia was the logical result in the context of the times. Elaborate was OUT in 1982-3.     Dr. Prog wrote: Plus, the whole Asia thing was not some long standing build up of expectations. Not many people even knew this was coming when it came out in 1982. .I was very in tune with music at that age, and never heard anything before the album release. Wetton and Howe both have said in interviews that they never expected this to take off commercially like it did. They were completely taken by surprise by the success of the album, and quickly put together a tour before they even had enough material to tour on.     Maybe you don't live in South America.   In those days without Internet, cable or MTV (in Perú), we heard about the album 3 or 4 four months before it was released in our country, we had no samples, we only heard names like  Wetton, Downes, Howe and Palmer, which made us expect a great album   At last it reached Perú and was released with great success, except among the Prog Community, then came the videos, etc and the rest is history.    [QUOTE=Dr. Prog]So all in all, anyone who was expecting some epic prog masterpiece, in the context of the reality of the times, was really not understanding the music scene at the time.

1. Cured, Highly Strung and the pompous Bay of Kings by Steve Hackett, released in that périor of time with some months of difference.
2. Or maybe like Script for a Jester's Tear (with a fantastic epic) by Marillion,  released less than a year after ASIA and more or less coetaneous with ALPHA.
3. Or even like the pristine Symphonic album "Despois Do Fim" released by Bacamarte some months later.
4. Kenso II by Kenso.in the vein of Camel
5. Counterpoint  by Solaris, released in 1981 as well as Penta

So as you see I understand the music scenario of those years, but I still wanted to listen Prog like Hackett or Fish's Marillion, not an album like ASIA which I believe was in the borderline of AOR and Mainstream.

Dr. Prog wrote:

I like Drama a lot, but its not nearly in the same class as GFTO of course. However, a track like GFTO surely was a preview of what Howe would be doing on Drama. In your face, almost punkish guitar playing.   I see Howe’s guitar more Neo Prog oriented in Going for the One, much more aggressive and harder, but still much more than a couple of chords played over and over. I see no or very little Punk connection, just listen most Marillion and similar bands albums and you will listen that same aggressive guitar.   And again, the song Nothing to Lose by UK, a Wetton composition, is almost IDENTICAL to the songs on the first Asia album, and would have fit very well on that Asia album. I don't care what category you and other people on PA label those groups----I trust my ears. The song Nothing to Loose is only one among many others that UK released, I won’t judge a band by one song being other great ones and totally different, why can’t we create the parallel with others like: Danger Money Rendesvouz 6:02 Caesar's Palace Blues The Only Thing She Needs Carrying no Cross (12.20 minutes short epic) Alaska Time To Kill Presto Vivace All credited to Wetton BTW. Nothing to loose is only simpler song in a list of 14, being 13 much more complex. Do better how? That first album is full of great melodic power prog/pop songs very well played. There is not a bad tune on the album. So it does not matter what you label it, it was good. It doesn't matter what you thought they could do, they did what they thought was best at the time. We have a different perspective, as in GTR or other supergroups, I believe the members of ASIA gave the people what they believed was commercial,   Of course better is subjective, but I refer to a more elaborate, complex and trascendental album.   like I said, there was your mistake. If you had followed the logical progression of GFTO, UK, Wetton solo, Asia was the logical result in the context of the times. Elaborate was OUT in 1982-3. I don’t see a progression between GFTO and UK, I believe that in the early 80's there were great Prog, Punk or AOR bands making gopod music, I made a short list (that could be increased with many more albums and bands) that were doing great  Prog.   As far as I can tell, you get too hung up on labeling and black and white comparisons, instead of simply enjoying what is good well played music, regardless of the label. That's the crucial difference between me and you. There’s another possibility, I know what I like and I search for it, not just accept whatever the bands that I love gave me. There’s a lot of great music outside the pioneers of Prog,    I don’t enjoy the music of Asia, why should I stay with it, there are many more musicians  I can search for with a bit of effort that will make my musical listening a more pleasure experience. I like Prog, Pop, AOR, Jazz, etc, but ASIA is one of those bands I didn't liked.   I loved Genesis, but I stoped listening when I found I didn’t liked the music they were doing. The same happened with Yes during the Rabin years or with ELP during Works II and Love Beach, if they don’t play the music I like, I simply search for the music I like, in other pastures.   If I had stayed with this bands, listening whatever they released even if I didn’t liked it, during the 80’s and 90’s, I wouldn’t had discovered Marillion, Pendragon, IQ, Anglagard,. Par Lindh Project, etc, which I like so much.   Again I leave this dialogue before it turns into a discussion.   Iván

Didn't know that I was starting discontent with this post.  Just a couple of points: