He hasn't died yet.

Manunkind wrote: He hasn't died yet.

My mom just saw it on the news man or maybe she heard wrong. Communications breakdown I guess 

Reuters is saying he has died.My heart goes out to his family,but not to him.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1107219026584_52/?hub=World - http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/11072190 26584_52/?hub=World

Reed Lover wrote: Reuters is saying he has died.My heart goes out to his family,but not to him. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1107219026584_52/?hub=World - http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/11072190 26584_52/?hub=World

The Vatican's still denying it.

JrKASperov wrote: Not very likely, but let's pray for him

I'd rather prey for him

Empathy?

emdiar wrote: http://tudors.crispen.org/art/"> Bloody Papists !!!

One of the last centuries great men is almost dead and you come out with statement like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I believed only time travelling idiots like you existed in Northern Ireland and here in the west of Scotland.I'd expect better here on a site for intelligent people in your case apparently not

JrKASperov wrote: Not very likely, but let's pray for him

Ever heard of something like 'compassion'? There's a lot about it in a certain book - it's called the Holy Bible, ever read it? 

JrKASperov wrote: The second half of my statement?

The first half sucks big time IMO, but it seems that I've misunderstood the general message, all right, I apologise. 

JrKASperov wrote: It might suck, but when comparing the general teachiings of the Bible, including the Ten Commandments, to his words, actions and lack of speaking about forgiveness, it's indeed not very likely. As seen , it's likely, there might be stuff going on which cleans him of this, but it's certainly not very well known. If someone has some sources that point to the man teaching forgiveness and persuing asking for it, I would like to see, and I will retract my statement.

OK, I'm not a Catholic anymore, so I can't really point you to the sources, but he did apologise for the Inquisition, he sought reconciliation with the Orthodox Church (probably with the post-Reformation Churches, too) and carried on that whole dialogue with other religions thing. Apart from that a lot of stress is put on the importance of Divine and human mercy and forgiveness in the Catholic Church nowadays and I'm certain it must have been present in his teachings. He wrote a few books, but I only read one and it was a long time ago, so can't really tell anything more... 

Reed Lover wrote: Well,I am oh so very sorry if a few people on here are very upset,but let us not forget one thing.This man has been the single most formidable and impenetrable barrier to reducing the ravenous advance of AIDS across Africa.Simple fact-no-one here cries or takes offence for these nameless millions who cant use or are not instructed to use condoms that would certainly go towards arresting the ravages of this terrible disease. Fragile,Shrinkingviolet,I am sorry if you are offended but dont you see? Use of the condom is the singlemost practical effective way of defending against AIDS and this is denied to millions of African Catholics,because the Pope confirms it is a sin.Not God but the Pope.

Reed, don't you realise that for many people his death is a highly painful matter? I'm sure Fragile and Shrinkingviolet realise what's going on in Africa and what the place of the Catholic Church in it really is. 

Besides, the Pope's death won't solve anything. I wouldn't be surprised if the more conservative wing, led by people like Cardinal Ratzinger took over and piled on the misinformation.

Manunkind,whatever my feelings about the Pope,in deference to you,my friend and to Fragile and SV,I will save then for another day.Ok

If the Pope's death also meant the death of the catholic church,the greatest force for evil in the history of mankind,the matter would be significant,but since it doesn't,it's of no great importance.

Reed Lover wrote: Manunkind wrote: Reed, don't you realise that for many people his death is a highly painful matter? I'm sure Fragile and Shrinkingviolet realise what's going on in Africa and what the place of the Catholic Church in it really is.  Besides, the Pope's death won't solve anything. I wouldn't be surprised if the more conservative wing, led by people like Cardinal Ratzinger took over and piled on the misinformation. Manunkind-he is but a man,and his passing is sad for his family and friends.Other than that I would no more mourn his death than I would Robert Mugabe's (some day soon hopefully) and any other tin pot dictator who is making his subjects lives miserable.

Even in view of the AIDS catastrophe I cringe before putting the Pope and Mugabe in the same cathegory. Remember, Reed, that it was with his inspiration that the Vatican played a very important role in the creation of modern human rights. Apart from that, I'm quite certain that he did donate a lot of the Vatican's money to the poor. Although Christians from some denominations might disagree, he did follow the Gospels to a significant extent and it is said there that the poor must be helped (its also a formal teaching of the Catholic Church). One might not hear about these donations as much as the ones made by the likes of Gates, for instance, but this is also because the Bible advises such donations to be made quietly, without attracting too much attention and therefore shifting it from the recipient to the donator. So really, IMO perceiving him as an evil genius is just as biased and deceptive as viewing him as a saint.

Yeah, I'm also against deifying anyone, but unfortunately what's done is done. Many of the people mourning his death are hypocrites IMO, but for some this is definitely a loss, since with him they've basically lost what they perceived to be the human face of God. Respecting these people's feelings is the basis from which something lasting can be bulit. Someone has to reach out first, or people will forget that it is possible to reach out at all.

Pixel Pirate wrote: If the Pope's death also meant the death of the catholic church,the greatest force for evil in the history of mankind,the matter would be significant,but since it doesn't,it's of no great importance.

Often a force of evil but just as often a force of good. For every Torquemada who, acting according to his faith, tortured people, there is a Catholic who, acting according to his faith saved Jews during the Holocaust.

I will mourn the Pope's passing as I would mourn the passing of anyone (at this writing, he is still alive).  And although I could sit here and put his "positive" and "negative" words and actions in a balance and somehow determine just "how much" to mourn him based on that, I do not see that as appropriate.  As RL says, he is "but a man."  And with men (and women) in positions of power, public eye, etc., we tend to hope, if not expect, that such people will use that power for good.  And we are "let down" if and when they do not.  This Pope did things both positive and negative (depending on one's beliefs and perspective) - as all Pope's do.  I would agree, however, that, despite some arguably egregious "failings" (e.g., AIDS), he certaintly attempted to do more good than almost all the Pope's of the 20th century, and probably did.

That said, I am not one who supports the papacy in general.  Not only was its creation a heresy of Scripture, but even if we allow that it had its positive effects over the centuries, it has become an anachronism, if not a hotbed of hypocrisy, apostasy and corruption.  The papacy was, after all, founded on the "infallibility" of the Pope: that he was somehow "closer to God" than anyone else on the planet; that he had some type of "hot line" to God.  Luther, of course, showed this idea to be Scripturally incorrect, since it placed the Pope between the individual and Jesus, thus making him a sort of "secondary intercessor."  Luther pointed out that the Scripture tells us that we have no intercessor but Christ.  Indeed, the current Catholic Church reminds me in some ways of the Temple Priests and Sanhedrin of Jesus' day: locked into a mindset based on "religion" - rules, doctrine, behavior, i.e., the "letter of the law" - rather than one of "faith," which is a personal relationship with God and Christ, i.e., the "spirit of the law."  Because although there is certainly a place for rules, doctrine and behavior, faith must come first.

None of this is meant to imply that I feel any less sad about the Pope's imminent death.  As stated, I believe he attempted to do - and probably did - more good than any Pope in the past century or more, despite his "failings."  And since the papacy will continue, it remains to be seen whether the next Pope will be "better" or "worse" than this one.

Peace.

Reed Lover wrote: He's not dead yet anyway,is he? Lets save the brickbats for another day...

You know this is like Monty Python and the Holy Grail

"Bring out your dead"

Here's one for ya"

"But I ain't dead yet"

"Well your almost Dead"

Unfortunately we dont all share the same beliefs and maybe we have been quick to "gloat" when others feel exactly the opposite.

Fragile is a very decent man and if feelings have been hurt then we should respect this and not continue to make idle sport or have ideological debates.

Reed Lover wrote: Unfortunately we dont all share the same beliefs and maybe we have been quick to "gloat" when others feel exactly the opposite. Fragile is a very decent man and if feelings have been hurt then we should respect this and not continue to make idle sport or have ideological debates.

..how dissapointing

gdub411 wrote: Reed Lover wrote: Unfortunately we dont all share the same beliefs and maybe we have been quick to "gloat" when others feel exactly the opposite. Fragile is a very decent man and if feelings have been hurt then we should respect this and not continue to make idle sport or have ideological debates. ..how dissapointing

Your a bad man Gdub.

Fragile:

You cite Matthew 16:18: "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."  However, you quote it out of context.  Just prior to this, Jesus has asked His disciples "Who do men say that I am?"  In this regard, let's put Matthew 16:18 in context:

"So they said, 'Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.'  He said to them, 'But who do you say that I am?'  Simon Peter answered and said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' Jesus answered and said to him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, by My Father who is in heaven.  And I also say unto you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.'"  Matthew 16:14-18.

Thus, taken in context, Jesus was not suggesting that it was on Peter himself - or on his ancestors, etc. - that He would "build His church," but upon the level of faith that Peter showed in making the statement, in being receptive and obedient to God's Will as it was "revealed" to him.  Jesus was making a statement about Peter's faith - not about Peter.

However, even were that not the case, I fail to see how Jesus' statement at Matthew 16:18 leads from Peter to "mainstream, heirarchical, organized" religion, much less a papacy, much less the "infallibility" of the Pope.  That is all a construct created after Peter - and all the other apostles and original disciples - was long dead.  In fact, nothing in Peter's two epistles would lead one to such a conclusion.  Indeed, Peter himself seems to deny the possibility of this conclusion when he says:

"You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  Therefore is it also contained in the Scripture, 'Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.'  Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, 'The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.'  And 'A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.'  They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed."  1 Peter 2:5-8 (emphases mine)

Thus, Peter himself understood Jesus' comparison of Himself to the "chief cornerstone" and a "stumbling block" in a figurative, not literal, way, and understood that the "church" was not a building or an "organized" community, but all those who believe in Christ as crucified and risen: "living stones," not real ones.  There is nothing to suggest that Peter was seeking to "organize" the "church," much less to create a "formal" structure with a single person (i.e., "Pope") at the top of that structure.

If you can show me Scripture that supports your position, I am more than happy to be enlightened and proven wrong in this interpretation.  However, I have never read a single word of Scripture that would support the creation of a "papacy," much less the more-than-human "holiness" of the Pope himself.

Peace.

Garion, GDUB,

Your childish lack of respect for members of the forum who find the curent situation upsetting, does you no credit. Even if your views differ from their's (as they clearly do), is it too much to ask you to remain civil and considerate?

Just now, we should also think of those in Indonesia (country of our esteemed member Gatot), who suffered as a result of the recent earthquake.

Easy Livin wrote: Garion, GDUB, Your childish lack of respect for members of the forum who find the curent situation upsetting, does you no credit. Even if your views differ from their's (as they clearly do), is it too much to ask you to remain civil and considerate? Just now, we should also think of those in Indonesia (country of our esteemed member Gatot), who suffered as a result of the recent earthquake.

They were only joking, winding people up, Easy Livin, they PMd me saying so. 

Easy Livin wrote: There's a time and a place Manukind, this thread isn't it!

You're right, but I'm certain the joking's over and done with.

God's name be blessed, The Pope is struggling and he might even make it.

I'm not a cathloic, I'm orthodox, but I have a deep respect for him.

I'm really amazed, always seen in this forum a great deal of respect for religious beliefs, but I'm really ashamed to read how some people here use a time of real pain and sadness for people like me to offend one of the greatest men in history, he started the change of the Catholic Church, cleaned the name of Copernicus and even Pontius Pilates (He said he was a victim of the circumstances). Asked forgiveness and accepted some guilts of the Church, he helpéd to end the Cold War and was determinant in the fall of Berlin Wall,

He even went to jail to forgive Mohamed Ali Agca after he was shot by this man,

But some people here use this moment to insult the Catholic Church and a good and brave man, that suffered his long illness WORKING until the last of his days insteadof taking the easy way out and quyitting as many asked him.

In this forum and during all my life I showed the same respect for every religious belief or disbelief, that's why I demand the same respect for my Religion and for the man who I believe is the direct representative of God on Earth.

Don't blame him for the prohibition of Condom use or the spread of AIDS, not even him canchange dogmas that been part of the Church for centuries, even Catholics like myself use condoms, only fanatics accept this dogma, and this guys won't commit forrnication.

Sorry if I'm not 100%  coherent in this matter, but I feel a great sadness and a deep pain for the beginning of the death of a man who is according to my religious beliefs but most important to my real feelings, a part of my family.

I'm really sad and honest enough to accept I've been crying this probablñe loss for makind.

Iván

felixxx wrote: you should pray for the thousands of kids who die of hunger and diseases every day in poor countries

I hear a typical communist speech. No one deserves more prayer than another : a prayer can be given to everyone who is in pain, and here the topic is about the suffering pope. If you want to launch a topic about the poor kids you have the right to do it, but don't question the prayers towards the pope. And remember that the Catholic church does a lot for people in need (the late mother Teresa in India, abbé Pierre and the Secours catholique in France come to mind but there are many other priests and missionaries who devote themselves to poor people), thanks to the missions sent to Africa and countries of South America among other countries that aim at giving poor kids an education and helping people in need. How do you account for the fact that 8 inhabitants out of ten in South America and a growing number of Africans (many of them being the poor people you are refering to) are catholic ? All these people have a lot of admiration for the pope.

ivan_2068 wrote: I'm really amazed, always seen in this forum a great deal of respect for religious beliefs, but I'm really ashamed to read how some people here use a time of real pain and sadness for people like me to offend one of the greatest men in history, he started the change of the Catholic Church, cleaned the name of Copernicus and even Pontius Pilates (He said he was a victim of the circumstances). Asked forgiveness and accepted some guilts of the Church, he helpéd to end the Cold War and was determinant in the fall of Berlin Wall, He even went to jail to forgive Mohamed Ali Agca after he was shot by this man, But some people here use this moment to insult the Catholic Church and a good and brave man, that suffered his long illness WORKING until the last of his days insteadof taking the easy way out and quyitting as many asked him. In this forum and during all my life I showed the same respect for every religious belief or disbelief, that's why I demand the same respect for my Religion and for the man who I believe is the direct representative of God on Earth. Don't blame him for the prohibition of Condom use or the spread of AIDS, not even him canchange dogmas that been part of the Church for centuries, even Catholics like myself use condoms, only fanatics accept this dogma, and this guys won't commit forrnication. Sorry if I'm not 100%  coherent in this matter, but I feel a great sadness and a deep pain for the beginning of the death of a man who is according to my religious beliefs but most important to my real feelings, a part of my family. I'm really sad and honest enough to accept I've been crying this probablñe loss for makind. Iván

Great post, Ivan.

Yes of course, but dont forget how many natives were slaughtered in all these countries you just mentioned in the name of the catholic church

There will always be excuses to atack Catholic Church, but remember John Paul II has been Pope for 26 years not for 2 centuries, he's not resposnsible for the mistakes of the Church, mistakes for which he asked public excuses.

And why blame the Catholic Church, blame the Countries who have/had colonies in Africa and lived of the work of the netives, blame the slaves hunters who took them to other countries, but don't blame the Catholic Church that gave this men the only thing they could give, faith and help whenever it was possible.

Iván

Never said you were a communist Faelixx

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote:  the man who I believe is the direct representative of God on Earth.

Didn't we show this is a lie, and in continuing to spread this he is working against God?

gdub411 wrote: So, did the old bugger kick it yet?

Your'e a constant source of human compassion.The respect the likes of you are showing is evident on here and should bre remembered for future times .Although I rarely respond to any input you have you clearly show that you are simply an ignorant American.

I'm not Catholic, nor do I believe in his position... However, regardless of this man's position or religious background... he is still a good man who deserves some respect in his last hours.

I find most of the negative comments here more cold and frightening than the Catholic Church... Some of you have shown less regard for human dignity than any religious leader...

Fragile wrote: gdub411 wrote: So, did the old bugger kick it yet? Your'e a constant source of human compassion.The respect the likes of you are showing is evident on here and should bre remembered for future times .Although I rarely respond to any input you have you clearly show that you are simply an ignorant American.

and you're just an irrevelant European...perhaps.. if we're lucky...the next pope won't hail from Europe.

[QUOTE=Lucifer Sam]It's a pity that millions of people praise a vegetable.

Yet another knucklehead!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gdub411 wrote: Fragile wrote: [QUOTE=gdub411]So, did the old bugger kick it yet? Your'e a constant source of human compassion.The respect the likes of you are showing is evident on here and should bre remembered for future times .Although I rarely respond to any input you have you clearly show that you are simply an ignorant American.

and you're just an irrevelant European...perhaps.. if we're lucky...the next pope won't hail from Europe.

Perhaps, but one who knows when to show respect.

Well I had my fun. The jig is up...I am as much of a christian as anyone on this site. While I am not catholic, I hold no animosity toward the pope or any future popes for that matter.

My humour may be tasteless and sick but I offer no apologies. I just like to incite you guys once in a while.

I still love prog so that doesn't make me a troll...perhaps a big prick, but not a troll.

Velvetclown wrote: Go down the Pub Fragile and get blotto as you always do, respect just because you believe in Santa  NO WAY !!!!!!!  You´re just as brainwashed as the rest .

I like Santa

Don't continue Fragile, you're wasting your time.

I learned to know people for the respect they show for the beliefs or disbeliefs of the rest of the mankind.

I don't believe in Budah, but I would show respect for the Dalai Lama if he was dying and would recognize his merits.

Only small people can attack a man who has done no harm but fought for peace in the world during the last 26 years, and cowards who attack other peoples beliefs don't deserve ananswer.

Iván

PS: Thanks Threefates for your intelligent and sensitive post.

Reed Lover, Gdub, Emdiar, Pixel Pirate, Garion, Velvetclown, Felixx, Lucifer Sam:

What I find interesting about your general lack of compassion is this.

Let us say that someone you cared about was dying.  Not a family member or friend, but someone well-known for whom you had great, or even just admiring, respect.  Let us then suppose that Fragile, JsKASperov, myself et al - i.e., the "believers" on the site - made the types of comments about that person that you are making about the Pope.  My guess is that you might be bothered by this.  Alternatively, you might even say that it would not bother you because everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The difference here is that the above would never happen; i.e., Fragile, JrKASperov, myself et al would never make such comments, no matter what we personally thought about that person.  Why?  Because believers have compassion for everyone - not just for those whom they like, respect, admire, revere, etc.  And no, it is not simply our "respect for life" per se; i.e., that life is precious (which it is).  It is our compassion for the individual, no matter what walk of life they come from, no matter what position they hold, no matter what they have done or not done in their lives.

No one is suggesting that you all of sudden change your personal view of the Pope or the papacy or Christianity or God or religion or faith.  However, I know plenty of non-believers - some even more radically anti-faith than you are - who nevertheless have the common decency and respect to refrain from expressing their personal views when others are hurting or in mourning.  That you are all unable or unwilling to do so - and, indeed, that some of you feel the need to actually deliberately "bait" the believers here - is enormously saddening, and does not exactly reflect well upon your characters, even as non-believers.

Peace.

Ok

maani wrote: Reed Lover, Gdub, Emdiar, Pixel Pirate, Garion, Velvetclown, Felixx, Lucifer Sam: What I find interesting about your general lack of compassion is this. Let us say that someone you cared about was dying.  Not a family member or friend, but someone well-known for whom you had great, or even just admiring, respect.  Let us then suppose that Fragile, JsKASperov, myself et al - i.e., the "believers" on the site - made the types of comments about that person that you are making about the Pope.  My guess is that you might be bothered by this.  Alternatively, you might even say that it would not bother you because everyone is entitled to their opinion. The difference here is that the above would never happen; i.e., Fragile, JrKASperov, myself et al would never make such comments, no matter what we personally thought about that person.  Why?  Because believers have compassion for everyone - not just for those whom they like, respect, admire, revere, etc.  And no, it is not simply our "respect for life" per se; i.e., that life is precious (which it is).  It is our compassion for the individual, no matter what walk of life they come from, no matter what position they hold, no matter what they have done or not done in their lives. No one is suggesting that you all of sudden change your personal view of the Pope or the papacy or Christianity or God or religion or faith.  However, I know plenty of non-believers - some even more radically anti-faith than you are - who nevertheless have the common decency and respect to refrain from expressing their personal views when others are hurting or in mourning.  That you are all unable or unwilling to do so - and, indeed, that some of you feel the need to actually deliberately "bait" the believers here - is enormously saddening, and does not exactly reflect well upon your characters, even as non-believers. Peace.

Maani:

Whilst I was an instigator of the Anti-Pope sentiments,leaping in with my usual thoughtless abandon,and then trying to extricate myself as quickly-you are not truly blameless in this.
Hindsights a wonderful thing,but I feel that your anti-papist dig was innapropriate too,and therefore it is a tad rich to play the peacemaker.I know for a fact that you too caused offence and naming names like this does you no credit.

Should have closed this thread when I asked you to

Velvetclown wrote: Well I don´t really care, but if I see the word RESPECT one more time I´ll vomit !!!!!!  Those Child molesting priests should have shown COMPASSION to those poor kids which lives they  have ruined.

Velve c'mon man-leave it for another day.

Velvetclown wrote: Well I don´t really care, but if I see the word RESPECT one more time I´ll vomit !!!!!!  Those Child molesting priests should have shown COMPASSION to those poor kids which lives they  have ruined.

Where does the Pope come in?

The Pope was quick to condemn priests who molested children and a paedophile is a paedophile, celibacy or no celibacy.

Velvetclown wrote: Has nothing to with the Pope, only goes to show what Religious people are like

Plenty of non-religious paedophiles around, too. And judging everyone on the basis of some, come on.

Velvetclown wrote: Religious people should know better !!!!!!!!!

Of course they should. But why judge religious people who know better on the basis of those who don't?

It's incredible, there are more than 500,000 Catholic Priests in the World, and people still judge all of them for what a bunch of corrupts that don't represent 0.1% of the total numnber of perverts have done.

1. Thousands of school teachers are pedophiles,
2. Hundreeds of thousands fathers rape their kids
3. The statistics say that there are 78 rapes each hour only in USA (1,872 per day),

And anybody dares to blame the Pope (Rest in Peace) or the Catholic Church for 10, 20 or 50 perverts?

I'm sure there are perverts uin many other Christian denominations as well as pervert Rabines or representatives of other confessions, but nobody can held the religion responsible.

Pedophiles are everywhere, so don't enjoy blaming Catholic Church for something that happens everywhere and it's out of our control.

Now let us who loved and believe in the Pope cry his death in peace and stop attacking him.

Iván

PS: Everyboy attacks the Catholic Church, but thousand of idiots go every day to the court to support Michael Jackson suspected (more than suspected) pedophile, this is incredible.

Velvetclown wrote: Those who know better show know better than to be brainwashed narrow minded sheep.

So please show that you're not brainwashed enough to think all religious people are brainwashed sheep.

Velvetclown wrote: And who created the Pedophiles ??? God moves in mysterious ways

... I'm probably going to get evisecrated for this, but I agree with your statement to a certain extent. Still there is enough free will in everyone, so pointing your finger at God isn't really a solution.

Also, you accuse someone of lack of compassion and understanding and yet make unjust generalisations, showing neither compassion nor understanding yourself. Come on, show you know better.

Velvetclown wrote: People die all over the world every day, what´s so special about this human ???

You're the one making a fuss over him.

People die all over the world every day, what´s so special about this human ???

Something that obviously you are not able to understand.

Iván

felixxx wrote: Yes of course, but dont forget how many natives were slaughtered in all these countries you just mentioned in the name of the catholic church, and how many natives were forced to abandon their religion and become christians.

Yes, that's true but those were different times and nowadays the contrary happens because in some repressive countries catholic priests are persecuted. And evangelization is based on discussion and no more on violence.

Velvetclown wrote: I show Compassion to those who deserve it !! And very few deserve it ! Here endeth the lesson, you can all put your blindfolds back on

You make me sick...

Velvetclown wrote: I show Compassion to those who deserve it !! And very few deserve it ! Here endeth the lesson, you can all put your blindfolds back on

This kind of attitude has always been present to a larger or smaller extent in the religions you despise so much.

ivan_2068 wrote: It's incredible, there are more than 500,000 Catholic Priests in the World, and people still judge all of them for what a bunch of corrupts that don't represent 0.1% of the total numnber of perverts have done. Thousands of school teachers are pedophiles, Hundreeds of thousands fathers rape their kids The statistics say that there are 78 rapes each hour only in USA (1,872 per day), And anybody dares to blame the Pope (Rest in Peace) or the Catholic Church for 10, 20 or 50 perverts?

It's because they're in such a position of trust; teachers and doctors and so on are publicised just as much (two music teachers local to me this year, worryingly, although neither went anywhere near so far as physically abusing children). It's not right, at all, but it's all part of the tabloid mentality to make a huge thing of people in trusting positions betraying the public's trust; something I feel contributes to the lack of "togetherness" felt in society today.

Whoops, missed everyone else's argument entirely. On the other hand, it wasn't a very friendly argument so I'm probably better off missing it.

Easy Livin wrote: My sincere condolonces to our Roman Catholic members.

Ditto