Feelings about Genres
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47589
Printed Date: March 10 2025 at 08:12
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Feelings about Genres
Posted By: WaywardSon
Subject: Feelings about Genres
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 23:24
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This is a poll to see how everyone feels about genres. The good side about genres is that we can immediately pick out the kind of bands that appeal to us The bad side is that it doesnt encourage us to explore other bands outside of ourpreferred genres, a lot of proggers "Know what they like and like what they know", so they stick to a few genres and stop exploring the others
So, there are 4 choices in this poll
1 We put all the genres under one genre, simply "Progressive Rock" (United we stand, divided we fall!)
Maybe this option could stengthen the prog community
2 We reduce the genres , for example Symphonic and Neo will fall under one genre. Prog Metal will be just what it is, Progressive Metal, without having other sub genres.
3 Keep it as it is now (Don´t add another genre!)
4 Keep adding more and more.
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Replies:
Posted By: ClassicRocker
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 23:27
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I'd like to see a new genre label for Progressive Pop, personally (would mainly come from Crossover and Prog Related). I like having bands organized and divided into different sounds.
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 23:28
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If people are close minded changing it will not affect their judgement. If anything, if you put all in one cathegory the reaction will definitly be more negative than possitive. Having said that, I think most prog fans are more open minded than other type of listeners out there, so why make it such a big deal? ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: puma
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 00:23
| It's fine the way it is; if we add any more genres, we risk scaring newbies, and it was because of the amazing cataloguing system on this site that I like the bands that I do. Keep it the same, or even go back to how it was last year |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 00:28
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I'm an organization freak so I'm tempted to say MORE GENRES. But I know that last time (when art and prog metal were split) I felt a bit threatened but eventually got used to it. I'm going to be boring and say leave it as is! I like it right now.  |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 00:40
| I find the assumption that it "doesn't encourage us to explore bands outside our preferred genres" to be baseless and a little bizarre, I think it insults the intelligence of many listeners, and that it would make even less sense to put Progressive Electronic artists or Jazz Fusion under the same umbrella as Symphonic, Folk and Eclectic |
Posted By: endlessepic
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 01:53
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I didn't vote as I would like to list a new option. How about a few of the old ones and keep some new ones?...I think Art rock worked better than eclectic prog, however I like the Heavy and Extreme differentiation on prog metal. But it all works well! |
Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 02:02
| More couldn't hurt, I remember when Prog metal consisted of 1000's...and you couldn't find anything but Dream Theater, Opeth, Pain of Salvation and Shadow Gallery in the Top 50. More obscure bands seem to pop up that way and can be recommended easier. |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 02:48
| I feel like while having more genres can make things nicely specific, there does seem to be a bit too many available. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 06:51
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I'd like to see something along the lines of progressive pop. But coming up with a clear definition that would not set PA up for debating inclusion on any purveyor of intelligent pop music might be a little short of impossible. I could see XTC, the Police, 10CC, and lesser known acts like Jellyfish as being perfect examples of PP (and I add that abbreviation to put out a perfect set up for those who might want to rant against said proposal) along with some of the more interesting New Wave bands. Maybe some of the Goth bands might fit , too. But we'd likely get into the old fight over whether PA will ever put a limit on what it will consider including. The danger being that it would go beyond a prog site to a general music site. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 06:55
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i'm an organized freak too and i wouldn't mind if the genres were more.. i just believe that, in general, many bands/artist don't belong in here at all.. but, that's a different story... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 07:11
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If you want more genres then you should consider having a look at http://ratingfreak.com - http://ratingfreak.com , my own little website. Why? Because I'm pretty sure that we won't see many more genres added here, and maybe that's a good thing. I voted "more genres", but I would only want more genres if there was a way to switch back to a simpler display. If you have many genres and you know how they are related to each other, you can combine them and "emulate" a more basic view. The opposite is not possible: if you only have basic genres in the database you cannot "emulate" more complex genres. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 07:11
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Keep it as it is, I guess. Sometimes I feel we go over the top with with all the subgenres, but it's not really a big deal.
WaywardSon makes an interesting point, in that people may be put off exploring new bands if they have a pre concieved idea about a particular sub genre. I know I have tended towards Symphonic and Eclectic prog in the past, and have generally avoided prog metal, although I am dipping my toes at the moment, but only through reccomendations. Sub genres can be useful in trying to demonstrate to non proggers that not all prog 'sounds the same' and that it's a broad spectrum, that may well cover something they like. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 07:29
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Speaking as a member of the forum, not as a member of Admin
Personally, I feel there are way too many genres; I almost took the first option in the poll - genres, sub-genres & further sub-division leads (in my experience over the last four & a half years) to constant argument, disagreement & occasionally bad feeling among forum members - believe me, I've seen so many arguments in this vein, I've lost count  - I feel this is mostly down to individual perception of where a band or musician is 'coming from'; the same piece of music could be called 'eclectic', 'art rock', 'avant garde' or any other arbitrary title - everybody would be right & everybody wrong depending on your own perception and/or subjective opinion.
Of course - a single 'progressive rock' genre would be unworkable (although a lot simpler  ), but this music we all like has been divided, subdivided & analysed too much (again, this is only my opinion) - do we really want PA to become like this:
(a small section of Progressive Metal's current division structure) ...or do we want the archive to be easier to use (and no, I'm not advocating dumbing the Archive down, just making it more user-friendly). That's my two-penny's worth, anyway - feel free to come down on me like a ton of bricks  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 07:58
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ok, here comes a brick: the only really harsh debates i've ever encountered (or participated in) were the ones about big bands: Iron Maiden, Blue Oyster Cult, Led Zeppelin, Metallica etc apart from certain Admins that pushed for those names cause they were one of their fave bands the only real reason was, ADMITTEDLY their vast popularity... not even polls about their inclusion or not counted... i remember specificely PA members voting against an inclusion and however a few days later, there they were, right in the PA... if that doesn't insult us, what does? conclusively, that gives me the right to think that all those genres MUST exist in order to fit all those popular bands in, otherwise if there only were one prog rock genre and not these prog related and proto prog genres, where, oh so proudly, would you put them? i don't remember any serious debate concerning the rest of the genres not even about eclectic and crossover or the metal genre division, whatsoever... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 08:05
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^ no serious debate about the metal genre division ... apart from the 100+ pages of discussion that is.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 08:06
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Post deleted. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 08:12
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Is this discussion about to take a nasty turn..?
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 08:16
I hope not,or this thread will be closed very quickly. -------------  |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 08:29
as i recall it was just a mild discussion and definitely not harsh, nothing compared to those i mentioned in my post... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 08:38
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^ of course that's true, compared to those threads.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 08:43
Sure you can see it that way, but in that picture each division holds two items at most. Currently there are three prog metal categories, each of which holds around 100 bands (give or take). Also, with the new search facility provided by M@x, people can browse a http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=44&ssubgenres=19&ssubgenres=43&salbumtypes=&syears=&scountries=&sminratings=25&sminavgratings=3.5&smaxresults=100&x=63&y=8 - combined list . ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 08:50
My thoughts exactly, Jody - you got there first - let's keep this discussion civil & generalised; it's a valid and useful debate, so let's not lower the tone  -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 09:36
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I'm not really overly concerned about genres and categorisation. I think the current genres are generally good, but the space/psych merge annoys me, because it seems like it's just really catering to Floyd. I really don't mind about Eclectic prog (which is really just a genre that isn't any other genre) or the metal subcategories that I can't really understand particularly well because they allow me to quickly discover excellent music by their own top fifties or individual samples. Vote for keep it as it is, though I'd like to see psych and space rock diverge. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 10:49
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I agree with the psych/space split. I also think there should be more genres in general, maybe if there is more confusion there will be less squabbling ha ha.
Anyway, its a long shot, but seeing as there is a genre for German, Italian and Indian influenced progressive rock, I'd love to see an African influenced genre. It would be a good place for Osibisa, Santana, Weather Report, King Sunny Ade, Larry Young, Mandrill, Earth Wind and Fire and possibly Jade Warrior too. Also some music by Miles and Herbie Hancock would fit that genre as well. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 10:54
And a debate that was more constructive, and civil, than just about any concerning a PR addition. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 11:10
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An interesting and useful discussion. I notice that at present apart from the first option, the other three are pretty evenly spread.
A perfect example of how you can never hope to please everyone.
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Posted By: Paper Champion
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 12:26
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Please keep it as it is To my mind the present number of various genres/sub-genres is enough. When I found PA and began learning something new about all the prog genres/sub-genres that were oppointed, I never thought today we would have twice as many genres we had formerly. I wonder if any newbie doesn't confuse one genre with another. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 12:37
I'm really not happy with your response.  I'd go for a fifth option consolidate some and add others. And I might actually be serious here. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 13:08
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A rather different option for me too. I could see some more master categoriee, but I'd also like to see certain master categories consolidated with sub-categories, and sub-sub categories. I'd also like to see multi-tagging. Really, I'd like it set up more in a Prog tree or cluster fashion, but this is not easy to do. As an example of consolidation for master categories while having sub-categories, we could have metal (and this has been discussed but it wasn't possible with the software or something I believe) together under one master heading, and the types of metal as sub-categories. Folk Prog could have Raga Rock as a sub-category as well as various others including Acid Folk etc. The avant category could be re-organised. There would be an overlap of categories... Another, though it would be a huge amount of work, is to see Prog-Related as a specific category gone (though I'd keep if for a master list/ category) and have other categories have Related as sub-categories (e.g. Folk Prog Related, Symph Prog Related etc.). One would need dynamic charts for this to work well (I could see it done using Flash) and show better relations between bands and styles. |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 13:25
| I would reduce them a bit. Maybe I would leave Art Rock and Heavy Prog, and Progressive Metal and Progressive Extreme Metal. Just my 2 cents. |
Posted By: reality
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 14:05
| No more "Adopt a genre" and more actual "Progressive Rock". |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 14:13
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I think we should add more genres until each band has its own. We could even go beyond that and add genres that don't apply to any band. Seriously though, I think it's fine as it is. And even if it isn't, why bother change it? |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 15:04
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Keep it as it is... Genres are very useful... You just can't put Genesis and Opeth in the same basket... ------------- 
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 15:15
I did, at the library yesterday... ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: johnobvious
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 16:23
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For me, it doesn't matter how you slice and dice it if the discussion is you want to find other bands in the same genre as your favorites. There are so many bands in each genre and the music can be very different within each genre that there is no way I am going to gravitate towards any band just because it is one bucket over another. The current system is fine. If I read a great review for a band and they are in a genre that I generally like, I may do more research, but that is the extent to how important the classifications are. ------------- Biggles was in rehab last Saturday |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 16:28
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 16:40
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In some way Keep At it Is...
Although Reduce Genres is quite good too in some other ways. I really couldn't live with more genres! Entering PA made all my prog vocablary change into "tons" of sub genres that when I speech with my bro or father of this he doesn't really understand they just prefer to call it prog, metal, rock and pop, well of course jazz and blues too..others |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:35
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I'd be okay with an Alternative Prog genre, and a split of Math Rock/Post Rock since they have very few (if any) stylistic similarities. Everything else is good. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:39
I think the genres are perfect the way they are now. 
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:43
| Sometimes I wonder why people even make this a debate. Oh well, I vote it stay as it is anyway. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:46
| ^ cause it's fun.. we need good debates, the Progmetal Pioneers thread looks like it might get good too |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 17:49
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keep it as it is however, the jazz-fusion section needs a bit of a make-over. and a damn bigger description than just a couple of sentences. not to mention the fact that the section is missing key players in the evolution of the genre (*cough* Miles Davis *cough* Larry Young *cough* etc... *cough*) ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 18:19
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More subgenres, or at least keep the subgenres as they are, but when you click on the subgebre, thee are different catagories under that subgenre.
Like post rock...
Epic post rock- GYBE, JXlll
Guitar Driven-EITS, Mogwai
Math rock influenced- 65daysofstatic, Tera Melos
Experimental-Red Sparrows, Ulver
I've brought this idea up a couple of times, it barely ever gets recognized.
The way I see it is, with more subgenres, there are more bands with albums in the definative top twenty, therefore more bands being recognized, or lesser known ones getting exposure. Just my thinking process... ------------- 
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Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 21:52
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Personally I would like a more specific genre typing.
I think most neo prog will fit under the symph label. and some will fit better under either metal or other generic labels.
diversity within general labelling will be a cruel but good way to create more specific labels.
so for me its less labels, more sublabels.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 04:56
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Haven't read the thread!!
My position:
Too many genres especially since the breakdown of Progmetal and Art Rock. I won't expand again on how I'm discouraged art this situation.
The only staisfying solution is the multi-genre belonging.
I can't see how hard that would so hard to implement. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 05:02
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Like I've always said, I'd love to see the genres deleted entirely and a tagging or grouping/similar artist function replacing it.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |
Posted By: meat puppet
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 05:19
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I'm really struggling with these genres anyway. Having read the multitude of arguments as to what specifically is progressive music is one that I find impossible to answer. For the most part prog seems to consist of longer passages of music than most bands produce (I cant even decide what that would be), this puts all classical music into prog (which makes sense because many bands have pilfered famous composers work), the thing that differentiates rock from classical appears to be the use of a drumset throughout most of the performance. So that puts bands such as Metallica and Iron Maiden as progressive rock  Its all down to personal interpretation and virtually eveyone will disagree. If you spent your life listening to a band like 'Yes' then you will base your views around bands that have a similar style. I hear elements of these bands in Janes Addiction and The Meat Puppets neither of which would be classified as prog on this forum (I can pick a track by JA that you would swear was Yes in their heyday and a track by the MP that sounds like Robert Fripp wrote it)I think its all just music really with our own personal stamp on it. Anything, everything and nothing is progressive. Sometimes you can be listening so intently for what you recognise that you miss the real progressions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_9INBPUX9U - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_9INBPUX9U So, open it, forget the genres and describe the music in comparison to other bands. |
Posted By: Jack-in-the-Green
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 10:28
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...Reduce them ------------- Sorry if i have spelling mistakes, english is not my mother tongue. 
http://www.last.fm/user/grumfossil |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: April 05 2008 at 12:07
Aargh. =) There comes a point where you're over-compartmentalizing (neato word) certain things and ignoring other progressive genres yet to have been documented here as a consequence. Please don't flesh out the post-x genre like this until it's really overflowing, OK? ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Okocha
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 11:47
| Keep it as it is |
Posted By: darksideof
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 12:07
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went I started listening to prog in the early 80's. KIng Crimson Pink Floyd, RUSH, kansas, Supertramp, Jethro Tull, ELP,YES, VDGG, Gente Giants, Vangelis, Kitaro, Tangerine Dream were called just progressive music. ------------- http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/ http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/ https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/ |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 13:04
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There should be two genres: 1. Good prog 2. Bad prog ... and I get to decide!  ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: MusicalSalmacis
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 13:38
| What the world needs is really to ditch all genres, and just talk about the individual bands instead of trying to put different bands under the same label... Progressive Rock has a very big issue here because different prog rock bands are all very very very different, and this is not because of different subgenres really, it is more because "different" bands get lumped into the category that is "prog rock". However since this was not part of the poll, i'll go with "keep it as it is" because it is the safest way, and im assuming that those who work with this site are doing their job well. the number 1 option is a bit weird though, because i dont see how fans of prog metal, post rock, avant-garde etc would fare with their favorite bands being called prog rock lol. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 19:32
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If anything, the proliferation of genres )especially the metal spectrum( has been meant to help PA members in their search for music they might like or love. Having only one genre sounds great. But could you see if someone like Rocktopus was just starting here. And what if the first 10 reviews he read where mostly from bands like Death, Mastodon, and Barclay James Harvest. Could you see that he might not think much of "prog" as a genre ? The Eclectic tag is not really an improvement over Art Rock. But Art Rock was just like the current Eclectic in the sense that many bands end up there because they don't really fit anywhere else. Heavy Prog is good one, as it really identifies an aspect of prog that isn't metal, but not mellow. And while Neo seems like a good fit for, or in some more negative comments, a piss poor offspring of Symphonic, there is still a certain stylistic similarity to justify its' existence. Whether you want to dismiss is as symphonic music based on 80s' rock, or declare it but a mere shadow of a copy of symphonic, whatever. It still does have its' own sound. If you want to make it simple, would you prefer to just have it divided up based on the main or lead instrument - mellotron prog, guitar , keyboard, hammond organ, bass & drum, violin etc ? Could you see how this could also be of little help to "searchers" in terms of serving as a guide to the different types of progressive music ? Just view the different genres as a guide, nothing more. Not the definitive description, not the last adjective for ever; just an aggregation of like sounding music that once you find one or a few bands that you like, you may want to check others in the same genre. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 20:13
A comment on Miles Davis here - one of the top Jazz musicians, nay all musicians of all time. But it seems like every one wants to include him in their "club" a badge of their artistic worth. He's in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. Why ? His Jazz Fusion albums. Yet, most of his career, most of his work is not jazz fusion. Most of his classics are not jazz fusion. Heck, even his so-called jazz fusion masterpieces have their share of dissidents within both the jazz world and the rock world (which these albums were supposed to be a link). Should we include Dave Burbeck, with his Time Out album, Blue Rondo with its', at that time, exotic time signatures. Also consider his being taught by Milhaud (classical music connection), and the piano style that included that background. But, Brubeck's not cool, Man . ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |