King Crimson videos and MP3s no longer allowed !
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Topic: King Crimson videos and MP3s no longer allowed !
Posted By: Angelo
Subject: King Crimson videos and MP3s no longer allowed !
Date Posted: March 14 2008 at 04:56
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This is a mesage to all members - to inform you of a recent copyright issue. We were notified earlier this week by the lawyers of King Crimson that we are no longer allowed to provide access to King Crimson videos and MP3s on the site. This has nothing to do with ProgArchives specifically, other publishers have received similar requests - it is a copyright issue. In order to comply, M@X has removed all King Crimson audio/video material from the site. We urge you to not post any new King Crimson videos on the site, while the admin team will no longer publish King Crimson MP3s. Thanks on behalf of the whole site team! ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Replies:
Posted By: Blacktabøl
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 21:40
| I wondered why the MP3 was suddenly gone! Wow, that's kinda disappointing. I was going to write down the songs in the MP3 list for a friend of mine who recently listened to one of the songs in the MP3 list. |
Posted By: Blacktabøl
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 21:41
| Well, I guess what has to be done has to be done. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 21:52
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No surprise at all given Robert's well established views on copyright and the whole new 'digital' music industry, on which he is a player with DGMLIve.com...
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Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 23:00
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so... no streaming? that seems extremely excessive. does this mean they will be pulled off internet radio sites like last fm? its the same basic idea. bands should embrace this new digital age (radiohead amongst others) and use it to their advantage instead of struggling against the current the whole way. just for this, im going to a torrent site and downloading their discography. take that robert. actually its funny. my little 'petition' will have about as much affect on KC as their little 'petition' will have on downloading and filesharing, not that streaming mp3's is either. sigh. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 23:05
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how prog is that..... let's just remove them from the damn site as well.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 23:12
What's up KC's arses? Would hate to promote the band to other generations
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 23:14
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Fripp needs new lawyers... they don't need to be coming after sites like this.... but...ahem... others. This isn't the site costing them money.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 23:16
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other prog sites micky?
------------- |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 23:21
not other 'prog' sites that I am aware of... personal sites.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Drew wrote:Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 25 2008 at 23:25
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gotcha.
------------- |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 09:15
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Heh. My cousin wanted to get a better picture of the breadth of KC's sound, so I directed him to Progarchives' KC entry for the music. No problem though, Mr Fripp isn't special, there's more than enough other great music out there to last my cousin a lifetime. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 09:29
No kidding. Wonder if it was actually just lawyers being overzealous (probably wouldn't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to prog anyway), or is Fripp really standing by this. If the latter...hey, this site was basically doing free marketing for you...if you don't want it, that's your call - guess a few disgruntled fans ain't hurting your bottom line... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 09:33
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it is strange indeed; I also think KC will lose some publicity this way only. as if the few songs that could be heard on this site would really itch his ass
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 09:36
It's progressive in terms of not doing what everyone wants you to do - perfect Frippness! =P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 09:51
we should   ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:01
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I would at least reply to that message and explain the situation; maybe not all is lost yet
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:10
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I simply think that artists have the right to decide which websites host their content ... making it available without asking them first always bears the risk of legal consequences. And often it's not the artists themselves but their management and/or record companies who decide to take legal action. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:15
of course they do; I don't deny them that right. I just think it is shortsighted. ah well; Mr. Fripp is known to wear glasses  ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 10:48
^ Well, with the advent of websites like last.fm, myspace.com and youtube.com the situation has changed a lot compared to two years ago. For every major band - and most recent small/obscure bands - you can access high quality samples, there's no need for the archives to provide them. Of course I know why they're still here - to attract visitors and boost ad revenue. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 16:41
Last FM have been told to remove KC tracks as well.  |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 16:52
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^ it must be Mr. Fripp himself then ... he can join the club of internet-hating musicians, along with Metallica and Prince.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 17:28
I read his blog. He also stopped further production of the "Inside Story" DVD about KC. At the end of the day he's protecting and maximising his earnings. Good for him. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 17:30
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^ well, he's not maximising his earnings by the crappy selection of live recordings available on their myspace page ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Salvo_
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 21:16
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I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Fripp would be a whiny bitch, musicians from the '70s don't seem to understand the internet at all, especially considering some of the odd, egocentric stuff that he's pulled in the past (like going on tour with every player but him illuminated). Oh well, just another reason to dislike KC. ;-) ------------- Member suspended |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: March 29 2008 at 22:49
As a counter measure i will no longer advocate KC's music, instead i will delete my reviews and replace them with 1 star ratings, that will teach him (and lower my trustability, so i guess I will not) ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 05:11
You took the words right out of my mouth. |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 10:04
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WHAT?? You mean no one was paying money to listen to a song?? Someone must be punished for this!! Would Fripp have asked that his songs not be played on the radio? Apparently if the RIAA had their way, when you buy a CD you would have to pay them royalties for every single time you listen to any song. You don't buy a recording of the music, you buy temporary rights to listen to the music. But of course, if anyone else can hear it, that constitutes public performance, so you either have to pay extra or listen alone in a dark soundproof room. This is absolutely out of hand. IT IS 2008, PEOPLE! If you haven't realized by now that allowing people to listen to something before they buy it might make them more inclined to actually purchase it instead of passing over it entirely, then I don't know what to tell you. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 02 2008 at 10:22
| Maybe KC should request all stores and online retailers pull their CDs as well. Then they can ask those of us with CDs to destroy them. Once all the King Crimson music in the world has been destroyed, it can't possibly be pirated! Take that freeloaders! |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 06:51
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Fripp what are you doing!?
Im going to hide my kc albums in the attic before my house gets raided by his goons. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 08:04
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Am I the only one who's totally on Fripp's side here? To be frank I don't understand why any artist would allow these "free" MP3's and "free" videos. If you take a look at Youtube, for example, there's a huge amount of video clips, full movies even, that the guy who posted them has absolutely no rights to distribute. I believe Youtube is meant for videos that you've made yourself (out of copyright-free material), and it makes no sense to me that the administrators of the site won't remove an illegally uploaded video when they see one (and if they ever visit their site they must see thousands of them). What's the difference of uploading a piece of film and giving away free copies of it on the street? The same goes for MP3's. Do Progarchives, for example, have a permission from all these artists to have their songs available here? If not, I think they really should have. Sure, the MP3's are here for demonstration purposes, but isn't it the artist who should have the right to decide whether he wants to give his music away for demonstration purposes or not? I understand it's nice to have an opportunity to listen to an album before buying it, but is it really so much more troublesome to listen to it at the store where you're going to buy it? |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 08:52
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I can understand RF, but the whole issue is akin to trying to close Pandora's Box.
Won't do his reputation as an intellectual much good, but will boost him as an egocentric (crank).
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 09:00
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I love fripp music, but he is not promoting his works well, in this case.
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 09:39
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Of course Robert Fripp has the right to disallow the free distibution of his music. But if I were in his place, I should allow a handful of songs to be distributed freely as an attempt to get some potential listeners interested. I, for instance, became more interested in KC thanks to the MP3's on PA.
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Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 13:05
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I really don't see how having free streaming MP3s on progarchives or last.fm is going to affect him in any way. KC's discography still sells quite well. I've seen almost all of their albums in every Best Buy or Borders that I've walked into plus many tons of their work sold in used stores too. Almost every show on the 40th anniversary tour was soldout and I'm sure Fripp brings in enough revenue for the many collaborations he's done. Prog may not be a mainstream genre anymore but it has a very dedicated fanbase who is willing to shell out the money for the music. Fripp does have the right to say where KC's music is played even if many of us do not agree with it. I personally think he's taken it a bit too far but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. If I were in his shoes I would just be happy that people are enjoying my music in general. I guess this purge of free MP3s doesn't extend to live recordings because there are a few live King Crimson shows available to be streamed over on Wolfgang's Vault. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 13:36
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It's his right but it's short of sight.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 17:35
They do have permission, for most of them at least.
How can you listen to at the store? Do you really not understand why any artist would have more than 30 second samples freely available? ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 17:39
I meant the kind of stores that you walk into, take the album in your hand and say to the person behind the counter that you want to hear it. Then he takes the record out of the sleeve and puts it on this device they call the "record player", and then it starts to spin and while it spins it makes a sound.  |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 17:41
Those must have gone down with Atlantis.
And even if they did exist anymore, yes, that is a lot more effort than listening to it on the internet. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 22:04
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I'm with Micky in this one, probably Mr Fripp doesn't need us because he's already famous, but he's getting propaganda for free and not even allows a stream. I recommend to remove his bio, reviews, photos, album covers, etc,. just mention King Crimson was a pioneer band. If that's what he wants, lets give it to him.
BTW: Canadian law admits as fair deal the use of samples or copyrighted material for Critic and review purpose, but if he doesn't want, well, who are we to force him.
As a fact the Canadian Supreme Court has reinforced this law:
And here is the text of the law
This is not Youtube, this is a site for REVIEW AND CITICS created under the Canadian law.
Of course better check with a Canadian Lawyer, I don't have a license for this country, but can understand legal texts.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: January 07 2009 at 22:42
IMO it's too much. I'm not a Crimson fan, but the band is so important. I think it's better to place the information on KC and Fripp pages, something like this, with big red letters: Sorry, thanks to Mr. Fripp and his management, no mp3-s and videos are available!!! ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 02:05
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This perhaps maybe what it was like for Metallica fans with napster.I expect there will be a difference in album sales though the margin may not be that big.I found it quite difficult to investigate Crimson's music in the first place,i was just content on pursuing from the great but little i heard.
With websites like Youtube & Last.fm not previewing music,theres a very slim chance new generations are going to find this music & KC will remain a cult band.Myspace,youtube and Last.fm are extremely crucial marketing areas for the digital age.
I'm gonna start a KC street team and promote them that way,there's a good chance i'll be assassinated in my attempt.
I'm not to overally bothered by this,just a little dissapointed. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 12:49
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There`s some Crimson videos starting to resurface on youtube. I guess we should inform Bob that his spies are not doing their jobs.
------------- |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 13:03
I can understand that, but is a few tracks available for streaming on PA going to harm his earnings, or is it more likely to lead to more people purchasing KC albums? Personally I think making a few tracks available on the Internet is the best way to get your music heard. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 14:47
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What pisses me is that there are
We must promote Nª 1 and Nª 2 bands, support Nª 3 bands and reject the fourth group (If there is another jerk as stone face). Honestly, important or not, I would leave only the bio without Photo, eliminate the link to his site as cover albums, of course delete the links that send to places where his albums are sold and just leave a place for reviews without any form of advertising, not even the photos of the albums. Iván. -------------
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 14:51
Right! agree with you Ivan  -------------  |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:13
Ivan, we may like it or not, but it's authors' right to allow or forbid free access to their works. In case of KC the absence of samples (videos) is not a problem for PA visitors, most band's albums are not rare at all. And, if PA tends to be the best prog resource, it will be incomplete without KC. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:24
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Order. Order in this Court of the Crimson King. Whoa the horsies! Remember this is Fripp we`re talking about. He is known to have done many impulsive things from time to time. He contradicts himself all the time and you never know what the guy is going to do or say next. I`m probably just as ticked about all this as the next guy, but let`s not overeact. I was at a Crimson concert once and Fripp saw someone pull out a camera and threatened to end the show if he saw it again. Needless to say the camera disappeared. Why doesn`t someone in the corridors of power here at PA find out who this matter should be directed toward and communicate in a civilized way with that party politely stating our case. Maybe get a bunch of collabs to attach their names to this communication. I think this is a reasonable proposition. No? Comments? ------------- |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:54
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^ IMO good proposition. Let's not forget that many things are strongly connected. Everyone knows Mr. Fripp's "bad nature". But who knows, be his nature better, could he create his great music? I don't know. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:54
That's the problem, Mr Fripp is used to this behaviour because people treat him as a Prima Donna, he needs to know that the fans who buy his albums after 30+ years are the ones who provide him of the status he enjoys.
I believe it's time to say "No more Mr Fripp" and support the bands who want to be supported, the bands that consider fans something more than bodies with a wallett who will buy the albums because he's a "genius".
As an example the I contacted Romanian band Yesterdays via his keyboardist Zsolt Enyedi in order to add themm, he not onlyn sent me a CD autographed by all the members of the band (Very nice detail) but he was so humble that set me like 10 albums if his favorite musicians from Romania, that's hopw a real intelligent and enice person acts, instead of promoting his band, he helped to promote unknown bands from his country.
The real genius is humble enough to know why he is in the place he is, because people keep him there.
People talk about the ego of Rick Wakeman or Roger Waters, but I talked with the first one and seen how carefully the second one treats the audience, they are gentlemen with huge egos, but musicians who respect their fans.
Some of us love some King Crimson music, others love all their stuff, but lets be real, King Crionmson is a band from the past, a band that would be forgotten if sites like Prog Archives didn't kept them alive.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: January 08 2009 at 16:45
As far as prog bands go I'm sure that King Crimson is one of the least likely to be forgotten. And if they ever are forgotten, I can't imagine it having anything to do with the fact that people can't listen to their songs online. They have such a huge reputation (and they deserve it) that anyone who's interested in prog can't avoid coming across them some way or another. The people who are likely to buy their albums will most likely buy them anyway, even if they'd have to risk their money for something they haven't had the chance to listen to beforehand. I think it's outrageous to assume that it's the artist's responsibility to give out some of his stuff for free just so that we can "try it before we buy it". |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 11:00
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Ivan. Ivan my son. Count from 100 backwards slowly. Imagine pastoral scenes of the English countryside. I understand how you feel. As I mentioned I`m just as riled as the next guy about this. Fripp is indeed an unusual creature but I don`t think he acts this way in order to be treated like you say, a " Prima Donna". It`s part of his nature and , as I said he can change his mind like the wind and has the tendancy to contradict himself. We don`t even know for sure why or how this decision was made. It certainly wasn`t Progarchives alone which perpetuated this action by King Crimson`s legal representatives. As Tony R mentioned earlier anything King Crimson has also even been wiped from the last FM. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was something somebody within the KC organisation saw which broke the proverbial camel`s back. I`m also suprised that Syd Smith hasn`t come forth with anything on this. I still propose a formal letter endorsed by as many collabs as possible to be sent to the appropriate representatives of KC explaining our position. At least I believe we here at PA are entitled to an explanation even if such a letter is to no avail. I volounteer my time to sit down and compose such a letter and post it for all to see and approve prior to sending it off to Mr. Fripp`s people. I`ll also make sur that it reaches the proper representative so that it goes through the right channels on their end. Ivan. Hold off for a while. Please.  ------------- |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 13:45
| If you wish to hear any King Crimson....allmusic.com has samples off about 70% of Crimson's library on their site. It appears that the legal team hasn't informed them or they are paying to have the samples on their site. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 14:27
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No Crimhead, in my case I have all the King Crimson I need, all the albums paid in a store, that's not the point, one song in stream is not piracy, and I wonder why we must understand Mr Fripp's reations.
The general excuse is that he's like this.....nobody has the right to behave in such manner.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 15:25
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You`re taking this way too personally it seems. I`m going to draft an initial letter post it and see what people think. It seems to me that nobody here at PA even questioned this action, but merely complied ( which was the wise thing to do). I can name a few other artists who are off their trolleys. If they weren`t off their trolleys in some way they wouldn`t be artists. Should see how Gary Larson who drew The Far Side protects his work. . The worst that can come out of this is a straight answer from the King Crimson people. I`ll write the letter and find out who to direct it to over the weekend then post it and see if we want to send it off. Fair enough?
------------- |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:16
Some people deal with copyright issues in very odd ways. If you think Fripp is bad, I'll tell you what happened to me and another bunch of people who wrote essays on Tolkien to be published in a book which came out in the fall of last year. In order to use VERY SHORT quotations from Tolkien's work in our essays, we were forced to pay £ 35 per head to HarperCollins (Tolkien's publisher in the UK), because they don't recognise 'fair use', and the publisher of our book wanted to have permission for all quotations used. As in the case of Fripp's lawyers, this means being unable to distinguish between reliable sources (in our case, an academic publisher) and dodgy ones .
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:38
If you took the time to read through Fripp's diary: http://www.dgmlive.com/search_diaries.htm?search=SEARCH+DIARIES&diarist=3&Word_Keyword=copyright&Day=Day&Month=Month&Year=Year&search=SEARCH+DIARIES - http://www.dgmlive.com/search_diaries.htm?search=SEARCH+DIARIES&diarist=3&Word_Keyword=copyright&Day=Day&Month=Month&Year=Year&search=SEARCH+DIARIES You would find that it is indeed Mr Fripp himself that is jealously guarding his copyright. There's no hidden agent. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:39
Frankly, Fripp has no obligation to simply allow what is essentially unauthorised broadcasting. That the other bands you mentioned choose to, great!, but that doesn't change the fact that the artists/record labels have their work, and can choose not to let people broadcast it freely. To be honest, this move comes across as perfectly reasonable to me. Your suggested response is simply berkishness in reply to some perceived insult (which was, in my opinion, 100% reasonable anyway). And, coincidentally, it'd be crippling PA's reliability and value for no reason. Do the fans really have any reasonable grounds to expect to be allowed to keep up a few tracks? Personally, I don't think so. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:40
I basically agree with the above text. Note I have removed the name-calling bit.... |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:48
Fripp's not doing very much these days - you revived a 9 month old thread (and after a quick scan of the responses - you were quite succesful at it as well....) ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:56
Internet rage is never finished, only deferred. ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 17:03
-------------
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:12
Anyway, the important part is the ethos of it, not the law. If an artist doesn't want us to put up samples of their music, I think we should respect that. I don't think PA should make demands of the artists on the site. We shouldn't compromise PA's integrity just to get back at an artist for something that doesn't really matter. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:29
This is not a fan site, a fan site is a place devoted to an artist. This a REVIEW AND INFORMATION site, the forum is only a complement the main page we inform about bands that we love and also about the ones we dislike. And it's not that i done my homework, I'm an attorney that has worked in copyright issues for almost two decades by now.
That's the difference from our perceptions........What if that same artist doesn't want newspapers to inform about a concert or a team doesn't want a TV station News program to show limited images of a game? Do we have to accept it?
Would you say "Do we want to be anewspaper who makes demands of the artiosts, politicians, sportsmen and inform about them when they don't want?
I believe in the law, if an artist uses the law to protect their work (something to what they are entitled), then they should accept the consequences of the same law and respect the limitations decided by the legislator.
If you check, the artists use the Copyright act to protect their right, but exactly that same copyright Act grants a limit to their right named fair deal. You can't decide I claim my right according to Part I, Copyright and Moral Rights But I don't want to accept the section referred to Exceptions Article 29.1 of the same Copyright Act, that's unmoral IMO, as a fact you don't decide to accept or not the laws, the laws are mandatory, but using a determined article of a determined law to protect your right and reject another article of the same law just because you don't like it, is going too far. I don't care about the samples, I believe they are unnecessary, I care about the legal principle, because if we start ignoring the Free Information right with the excuse of individual rights protection, we will reach a point in which the sport teams, leagues and artists will say "I want newspaper "A" to inform about my game or show, but not Newspaper "B". The next day you have a subpoena for attempting against the freedom of information. My point is the respect of Constitutional and moral rights, that's all. Iván -------------
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:31
No rage or anger,im just a little disapointed.You know the type which sounds worse from your parents. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:41
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That's Right what Ivan says about the Law is Mandatory and coercitive but in a State of Right, the artist goes to the Law to protect thier work and that's fair, but at the same time that right have a limitation marked by the same Law.
For example here in México, we have a federal law of intellectual property and in various articles but in the 251 says more or less that a person can do a copy of the protected work for private using or studing using, but not for selling or create a profit of that work.
Maybe Ivan they find difficult to understand the point because as you know, our body of Latin law is different of the anglo law.
And to TGM:Orb : If and artist do not want to put samples or that do not want that PA put up samples of their music, if PA were in México, for example there are some articles in the Federal Law of Intellectual property that most of the people can use the artistic creation for public dominium, some creation, specially 30+ old can be use like public dominion.
Obiously respecting the creator of the artisitc creation
------------- |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:48
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:51
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Ivan with that is perfectly clear tha PA respect the law And Fripp is and very Wh**m guy.
That attitude from him is disapointing.
Fortunately i only admire and like his music. ------------- |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 19:41
I still feel it's a bit silly to compromise PA because of an artist's decision over a legally grey area (if you have to establish whether the album rather than the song is the complete product, I don't think it's absolutely watertight). Your slippery slope argument is, in my opinion, inaccurate (one concession does not necessarily lead to ten concessions in largely different circumstances). |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 19:51
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[/QUOTE] I still feel it's a bit silly to compromise PA because of an artist's decision over a legally grey area (if you have to establish whether the album rather than the song is the complete product, I don't think it's absolutely watertight). Your slippery slope argument is, in my opinion, inaccurate (one concession does not necessarily lead to ten concessions in largely different circumstances). [/QUOTE] That argument is not slope and shows only your lack of knowledge about the law with all due respect.
Sorry to be so rude but that's the truth.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 09 2009 at 20:11
Thanks Alberto. the point if the song is a partial or a total product is IRRELEVANT.
The article clear states that if a copyrighted product (DOES NOT LIMIT THE LENGTH OR ANYTHING) is used for purpose of criticism review or information....IT'S CONSIDERED FAIR DEAL.
There are no grey areas, I wouldn't discuss with ou about your expertize area, don't discuss of laws with Alberto or me.
That's absurd, the site is not a Fan Club or similar, because, it's a specialized in Progresive Rock Information, Critcs and review site, that's undeniable,
The site doesn't OFFICIALLY say "Hey, X band is the best, you must buy the album", the site says...·Here is a list of all Prog bands (At least we try to include all), you can like it or not, give a positive or negative review, we will add it anyway, buy the albums or not, we only inform they exist."
As a fact, there are bios in which the band is described as average or even bad, in a fan site this doesn't happen.
If the site wants to accept King Crimson's request to avoid problems or discussions, it's a call of the site but not an obligation according to te law.
BTW: Newspapers and News TV programs are not limited to inform, not even in USA because the First Ammendment is pristine clear when it says that not even the Congress can limit the freedom of Press.
Iván
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: January 13 2009 at 15:02
I`m quoting Raff because what she has just said makes sense. i remember when I was in university it was stressed that plagirism could get our ass kicked out. Even if it was by fluke. So I thought to myself I`ll just be really bizarre and then I`ll be safe. It bloody well worked. One of the TA s even called me into her office to compliment me on something I wrote. I think she gave it a B because I made all kinds of typos. It was an expository essay on how full of crap the Berlin Wall was. She wanted to keep it and I gave it to her. I`m waiting for it to show up on the internet so I can sue her. . You wouldn`t believe how much of the stuff I`ve written for PA has been ripped off by other sites. Reviews, band bios etc. I`ve come to the point where I just take it with a grain of salt.Anyway, getting back to Mr. Fripp. EG Records ripped the guy off for years and I can feel for him. I read down the whole thread including the excerpts from Fripp`s diary that Tony R provided. Now, am I going to write this bloody letter? The general sentiment is that we want KC on the site and I honestly feel that if we go about it in a diplomatic way I think we can get results from Bob & Co. And Ivan I`ve respectfully taken all your arguments into account. I`m going out of my way here. I`ll post the letter on this thread for all to read and we the people can add or take away from it until we`re all satisfied with the content. The letter will be up at this time tomorrow for all to see. I promise. Then let the jury decide. ------------- |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 14:06
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how about Fripp stops dicking aroung and RELEASE A NEW KING CRIMSON ALBUM ALREADY!!!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 15:02
Keep that tone, and Fripp might just disband King Crimson to spite you. That hasn't ever happened before, has it? ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: OzzProg
Date Posted: February 15 2009 at 18:07
He already has, from what I understand. About a year ago I went into some moderately mainstream music store, and noted the empty King Crimson slot (not an uncommon sight, seeing as most music stores will stock 1 CD from them). I asked the guy working at the store when they were expecting a new shipment of KC CDs, and it turned out that he was an avid Fripp and KC fan, and he replied to something along the lines of this; "Robert Fripp has decided to sell his music solely via the internet, no KC CDs will ever be shipped again." I thought this was BS, so did the same thing at a HMV, and I got the same answer, except not from a Fripp fan (he read it off his computer, that CD orders were discontinued from KC) i thought that was pretty terrible... -------------  |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: February 16 2009 at 09:38
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Fripp will always be Fripp and we must accept that. And this is a short rebuttle to Ivan. Sorry Ivan this is a fan site. We`re all fans so therefore this is a fan site.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 16 2009 at 09:59
You know, these days, the internet is a much better way to distribute things. Copies just going to those are interested rather than being mass produced and shipped all over the place. Still I keep going to my local independent seller to browse and buy and occasionally to the big guy in the neighborhood for the instant gratification. Fripp's internet store, too... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: OzzProg
Date Posted: February 16 2009 at 17:06
I like the idea of buying off the internet too, easier, faster, and better for the environment. However, at the end of the day, when you purchase music off the internet, it doesn't really feel like you have bought anything, nothing real at least. I like to have a hard copy, its just nice to have, linear notes, pictures, easily playable (you can play MP3s in cars and radios, but with much more grief and poorer sound usually). I recently bought the Remastered version of Yessongs of iTunes, and it just doesn't feel right, not to mention only 128 bit rate is available, which is noticeably poorer sound quality, defeating the purposed of the Remaster. ------------- |
Posted By: marklina
Date Posted: March 28 2009 at 01:25
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: March 28 2009 at 19:05
Anyone who frequents iTunes notice that the King Crimson catalogue has been withdrawn?? (Well at least from the NZ Store). Not a fan friendly move from RF and most disappointing  ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 12:46
| Is this the same reason why Dream Theater isnt playing anymore too? |
Posted By: Hexenmeister
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 13:37
This is very interesting to read. I recently considered playing some Crimson on my podcast, but decided, "Nah, Fripp's the type of guy who would probably try to sue me for it." Glad to see I was right!  After reading Bill Bruford's biography, Fripp comes off sounding like the curmudgeon he's always appeared to be. The man is responsible for some amazing music, but he's one of my few musical heroes whom I wouldn't want to sit and have a beer with. ------------- Check out my podcast on iTunes: Temple of Snakes Metal Podcast http://templeofsnakes.blogspot.com - templeofsnakes.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 15:15
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Can you imagine Bob drunk out of his head coming onstage and tripping all over his gear and then throwing up all his gin and then having to be helped off stage by Adrian. Nahhh. For some reason I can`t even begin to picture that. For some reason.
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 15:43
Neither would I, but that's because I really dislike beer. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 16:05
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I hadn't went through this thread before though it's been revived a couple of times. Fripp is a sad soul. At one level, I can see if he got ripped off before not wanting to be ripped off again, but if you read his diary the guy's obsessed. It's his life but that's a sad way to spend your golden years. Although he also seemed excited about Steven Wilson's remixing ITCOTKC for 5.1. At least that's about music.
He's at the age where he ought to give it all away to anyone who wants it for free!!!
I'm beginning to like the modern trend of Prog musicians who do music on the side more and more. Art for the love the art and no more. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 17:31
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I've also been reading his journal for the last half year and I don't feel Fripp as a "sad soul" at all. On the contrary, I would like to have his curiosity, imagination, temperament, power of concentration etc. when I am at his current age. But most of all I envy his sense of dialogue with the world around him: plants, gardens, houses, the sky, silence, music and art, people, friends, relations. It seems very rewarding to me. Regarding the legal issues he's been through for the Crimson/Fripp catalogue, he seems to be right, at least into my eyes. All the power to him. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: July 14 2009 at 10:02
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Well said there Harmonium.ro. To put it in a nutshell Bob is a very odd fellow. I never tire of his diary and guess I don`t blame him for being so possessive regarding his material. Gary Larson who drew the Far Side cartoon panel is the same way. When the internet started to become popular he didn`t want his cartoons being used without his permission. The thing that makes me wonder about his diary is that how does the guy make time to actually live his life?
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: July 14 2009 at 13:17
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I just checked youtube and it looks like Bob`s spies aren`t doing their job.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 14 2009 at 13:33
Fripp can be as much of a curmudgeon as he wants to be as I really like him musically. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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