Building a guitar
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Topic: Building a guitar
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Subject: Building a guitar
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:29
In the 'How much do you practice?' thread I mentioned I was building myself a guitar, and was subsequently asked to elaborate on it a bit rather than derail that thread any further I've started a new one.  So here's the specification of the guitar I'm building Body: I believe it's Alder but I could be wrong, painted clear blue on the top and solid blue on the sides and back, has a universal rout so in theory I can fit any pickups I want. Neck: clear gloss Maple/Rosewood strat style neck, 22 frets, C profile. Pickups: 3 Fender Tex Mex single cloils. Bridge: chrome Wilkinson VS100 pivot trem Tuners/Machine Heads: Gotoh 6 inline sealed, chrome Pickguard/Backplate: white Basically it's a fairly standard strat clone, but since I've not got any guitar with single coil pickups it's going to fill a hole in my collection quite nicely and since the parts I'm using are high quality it should also play just as well as an Fender provided I build it well. Here a pic of what I've currently got for those who are interested:  This photo really doesn't show the parts at their best, the rosewood fingerboard looks a lot better in real life than in this picture. I'll update this thread once I get the other parts or get any work done but that's not going to be until late next month. |
Replies:
Posted By: SpaceMonkey
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:33
Looks finished enough.
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Posted By: SpaceMonkey
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:36
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Have you always played strats? Woo, 100 posts.
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:36
That neck doesn't even fit in the neck pocket at the moment I need to get the sand paper out and increase the width of the pocket by about 0.5mm, still that means I can get a really tight fit which will make the neck nice and secure. There's also the small problem of the lack of electronics 
Never owned a strat before, my guitars have always been humbucker equipped Gibson style guitars (except my Steinberger of course) |
SpaceMonkey wrote:
Posted By: SpaceMonkey
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:42
| Hopefully it works out for you in the end. I was always worried that if I took the neck off I wouldn't be able to get it "perfectly" aligned again. That was back with my other six strings though. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:48
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I've mucked around with taking guitars apart since I first started playing, I once reduced my old Burn Marquee (one of the few all single coil guitars I've ever played) to it's component parts just so I could give it a decent clean. I've also had to fit new necks to bodies in the past so I've got enough experience there I hope. The two things that are worrying me are getting the placement of the bridge right and cutting the nut slot in the neck. I'm tempted to have a luthier do those jobs for me but I'd rather do them myself. |
Posted By: SpaceMonkey
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:54
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How do you plan on tackling the whole nut issue? If you are confident enough in your abilities go for it man. It would be great having luthier skills. The problem is I'm lazy. So I'll just go the extra penny and go for some signature models instead. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 05:06
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I've got several small files hanging around so I'm going to cut the slot with them, thankfully the neck has a small slot where the nut is supposed to go so all I have to do is widen it. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 07:28
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It's looking good Nick! Did you cut and fit your own frets or buy a pre-fitted fingerboard? I found that the singular most difficult thing to do - basically you have 22 chances to get it wrong and ruin the whole thing.
Back in the 60s when I first told my Dad I wanted to play guitar he made me a half-size acoustic, but as he could only scrounge 4 machine heads he made it a 4 string, which as a six-year old wanting to be John Lennon, I found difficult to match up to the chord-charts in Bert Weedon's http://www.bertweedon.com/video.htm - Play In A Day , so (much to his disappointment) it remained unplayed.
Many years ago I built a semi-acoustic using the cheapest parts available, hand-made pickups and wood from old bits of furniture à la Brian May. Being without proper plans, it was based upon measurements taken from an old Encore guitar (the only one I dared take to pieces
 ) needless to say it played as badly as the Encore, but with a marginally warmer sound.  Knowing that I would never be able to build a "real" guitar that I would be happy with, my next project (should I ever get around to starting it) is to make an electric http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_dulcimer - Appalachian dulcimer - sadly I cannot find the CAD designs I have been working on, but basically it is a headless solid body design using Steinberger machine heads. But what I really want to build is an electric 'cello...
------------- What? |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 08:35
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I bought the neck complete (bar nut and tuners), there's no way I'm going to attempt to fret the neck myself as I know how difficult it can be. If this project goes well I think I'm definitely going to be building more guitars and I will be modifying all my current ones too as I've got a few things I want to change on all of them particularly my Steinberger which really should have active pickups in my opinion but is stuck with passive ones. |
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 14:36
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I wish I had your patience..I tried rebuilding a BC Rich Warlock I had lying around....I wound up smashing it against a wall I can laugh now..but when it happened, It was not so easy ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:55
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Just wondering, what fretwire are you going to use and what fretboard radius will you have? ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 21:36
One mod I've always fancied having a crack at is an infinite sustainer pick-up... like an ebow but across all six strings ... the principle is easy enough ... a small battery powered amp feeds the pickup signal back to some form of excitation coil to vibrate the strings (another pick-up perhaps... but haven't done the maths yet, I think a standard pickup may have too many turns on the coil so may have to be re-wound). ------------- What? |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:28
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The body in your pic is not alder, it is ash. "That neck doesn't even fit in the neck pocket at the moment I need to get the sand paper out and increase the width of the pocket by about 0.5mm, still that means I can get a really tight fit which will make the neck nice and secure." Don't use sandpaper for this job. You need a flat file. Sandpaper will not allow you to keep the walls of the neck pocket perpendicular to the face of the body. If the neck to body joint is not fitted well you'll lose a substantial amount of sustain and your neck will be more susceptible to string tension making more frequent set-up adjustments necessary. A flat file about 1/2" wide is the best tool for the job. Also when filing the pocket to fit the neck NEVER EVER pull the file (or the sandpaper if you choose to ignore my advice) upward. The reason the neck won't fit is that the body finish has formed a small "lip" around the opening. The same thing happens around all the body routs when the finish is sprayed on. If you pull upward when removing this "finish lip" you can chip the finish. Always file either downward from the top to the bottom of the pocket or lengthwise from the heel end to the back of the neck pocket cavity. "I've got several small files hanging around so I'm going to cut the slot with them, thankfully the neck has a small slot where the nut is supposed to go so all I have to do is widen it." STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!! On a factory neck like that there is NO WAY you should need to widen the nut slot (your pic isn't clear enough to be sure, but it looks to me like the slot is there and properly cut to size already). Since you're using the Wilky trem you don't need (and should not use) a locking nut. The Wilkinson is designed for use with a standard nut and tuners. Your nut slot will have been cut to Fender spec of .125" (1/8") at the factory. If your nut blank is wider than the slot you should thin the nut blank to fit the slot in the neck. Keep in mind that widening the slot may well change the overall length of your strings (from contact point on the bridge to contact point on the nut it should be 25.5" for standard Fender scale) and you REALLY don't want that to happen. The string contact point on the nut should be right at the edge of the nut where it leaves the fretboard. The string slots should slope gently down and away from that point so that the string can only have one true contact point. Flat bottomed slots are one of the beginner's most common mistakes and they make proper intonation impossible. When played open, the string makes contact at the edge of the nut nearest the tuners and when fretted it is pulled down at the fretboard edge. The difference in string length then is 1/8" from edge to edge across the nut. If you alter the scale length even by even a mm you'll never get the intonation right. Stew-mac has some pre-slotted (starter slots) nut blanks in graphite and a synthetic material called Tusq that should literally drop right into the factory slot. Also, don't glue your nut in the slot (another common beginner error). if you make a mistake filing the slots you can't remove the bad one without damaging the fretboard. A snug fit and string pressure are all that's needed to keep the nut in place. Bridge Placement: I'm assuming a scale length of standard Fender 25.5" for this neck and for the body. The neck and body do need to "agree" on this point. Place some masking tape (preferably that blue stuff that peels off easily) on the body between the bridge rout and the back edge of the pickup opening. With the neck installed (screws and all), measure from the fretboard edge of the nut slot down the neck and onto the body 25.5" and make a mark. Do this from each edge (low E and High E string) of the nut. Connect those marks on the body and extend the line to about 3-1/2"- 4" long on your tape. Place the bridge in the cavity (like you did for the pic.) so that the string contact point on the saddles is lined up with your 25.5" mark. When you have it aligned properly mark the positions for the tremolo mounting studs. Remember, it is not the studs that need to be at 25.5", it is the string contact point of the saddles. When you're ready to drill the holes for the stud bushings DO NOT use a hand drill. These holes must be perpendicular to the surface of the guitar so you'll need a drill press. Even a slight angle on this hole with a Wilkinson trem will not allow the bridge to float properly. Once again, your finish is at risk. Drill bits chew and LIFT material to make the hole. If you just plow in with the bit you will probably chip the finish around the bushing. Run the drill in reverse while applying pressure with the handle of the press. Running the bit backwards cuts through the brittle finish without the lifting and chipping. Once you're through the finish, change the drill to forward speed and finish the hole. Be careful of the depth. Some studs don't work with really deep holes. When putting the threaded bushings into the holes you also run the risk of finish damage. Don't pound them in. The fit should be too snug to press in by hand and it is tempting to reach to the hammer. DON'T DO IT. Use the drill press to add leverage and press the bushing into the hole. I place the bushing into the hole and press by hand until it is seated. Then I heat the bushing with a soldering iron and immediately press the bushing in with the drill press head. The heat softens the finish just a bit and allows the bushing to just slide right into the hole. Now you're ready to remove the tape. The whole process should take less than an hour. Congrats on assembling this instrument. When you're ready to take the next step and build one check out my book. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Guitar,_electric/Electric_Guitar_Construction.html or http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Guitar-Construction-First-Time-Builder/dp/1574241257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203740800&sr=8-1 It'll take you step by step through the whole process. It's not nearly as daunting as you suggest. Just do your homework and get a good guide book like the one I shamelessly recommended above. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 03:52
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Thanks for the advice. To clarify the nut slot issue, there is no nut slot on the neck what there is however is a slot the size of a fret slot where the nut slot should be. EDIT: following your advice I've also ordered a couple of books to help me though everything. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 03:58
still the best way to get to know something  |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 25 2008 at 06:10
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Well I've got a small update, I've figured out how where the nut will have to be installed and the fret sized slot simply marks where the edge of the nut should be. I don't know why the neck I've bought doesn't come with a precut nut slot but it's not a big problem. The first of the 2 book I've ordered has arrived, hopefully the second will get here in the next couple of days as I intend to read both books from cover to cover before I even consider picking up any tools. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 25 2008 at 08:05
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I've never seen one done like that before, but using that slot as the edge guide does at least make some sense. That would mean that when you widen the slot you'll do all your cutting in the direction of the headstock and not toward the first fret. Should work out fine. Just out of curiosity, what books did you order? I was Stewart-MacDonald's Tech Support guy for five years so I'm pretty familiar with all the books out there (including the one I wrote of course) and I'll be glad to help in any way I can. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: February 25 2008 at 08:17
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Your one and Make Your Own Guitar by Melvyn Hiscock. The book you wrote was the one that arrived today it's already been very useful, as it helped me figure out how to find where the nut slot should be cut. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: February 25 2008 at 18:42
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Out of curiosity, Trademark, how much would I have to differ from the guitar-building instruction books if I wanted to build a six-string bass? Would it be much more than a wider fretboard and wider nut slots?
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 26 2008 at 08:22
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Building a 6-string bass pretty much comes down to , as you mention, altering some dimensions to accomodate more strings. The neck has to be wider. Of course you would also need the appropriate pickups, bridge and other hardware but most of that stuff is pretty easy to find. The main issue with a six string bass is string tension. Six bass guitar strings pull a lot harder on the neck than four and keeping the neck relatively flat requires a stiffer neck. Maple is the most common wood and it is very stiff, but not enough so for six string bass necks. Most six string basses opt for one of two reinforcing pans in the neck. Some use two truss rods placed about an inch apart rather than one run down the center of the neck. This give you more control over the neck adjustment, but makes balancing the adjustment of each rod a bit trickier. The other common way of dealing with the neck stress is to place a single truss rod in the center of the neck and add a couple of carbon fiber stiffening rods (one on each side of the neck about 1/2"-3/4" from the centerline). These carbon fiber rods are usually about 1/4" x 1/2" and are pound for pound much stronger than steel rods. Carbon fiber is extremely light weight and effective for this purpose. The drawback to carbon fiber is that by stiffening the neck to this degree you make the truss rod work much harder to alter the curvature of the neck thus limiting the amount of change it can have. Sooooo, the builders who use carbon fiber reinforcement usually try to build a few thousandths of an inch of back bow into the neck. This way when the string tension is placed on the neck it will not pull more relief (up bow) into the neck than can easily be adjusted with very small adjustments of the rod (or better yet no adjustment) if all works out according to plan. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 06:43
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Any more news lately? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 10:44
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Not really, I've ordered all the other parts I need but it's going to take a while for them to get here, I have decided however that with the right tools cutting the nut slot and positioning the bridge won't require me sending the parts off to a luthier/guitar tech as after reading books by Trademark and Melvyn Hiscock I feel I have enough experience and now knowledge to do the job myself. Unfortunately now though a complete lack of spare cash for the next few weeks (waiting for my university bursary which is due to be paid this month) will mean that I can't buy the vertical drill mount I need to be able to drill the bridge mount holes properly until early April, however hopefully before then I can get the nut fitted and wire up the pickguard. I'm also being hampered by the fact that my parents are insisting that everything bar the body be treated as a birthday present so I'm not actaully going to be allowed to touch the parts for 3 weeks or so.  |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 05 2008 at 08:48
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Hurrah the rest of my parts arrived today, I've now got almost every thing I need to build the guitar now, all I need is the vertical drill mount to help me drill all the holes correctly. I've already managed to produce another mock-up which hopefully shows how the guitar should look better than the previous photo.  |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 03:47
That looks alright What program did you use for the mock-up?-------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 06 2008 at 11:27
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No program needed except paint to resize the photo
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 12 2008 at 11:33
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What's the current progress so far? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 13 2008 at 13:35
| None I'm afraid, I've been very busy with university coursework recently, and will be for the next couple of weeks. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 13:57
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What fretwire are you going to be using? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:06
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The neck is pre fretted so I don't need to fret it myself but I believe it's got standard Strat size fretwire. I should be able to start work on the guitar in a couple of days though, the first thing I'm going to tackle is getting the pickguard wired up. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:09
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Ahh. So I imagine if it's based off a newer strat, it would have the medium jumbo frets.
What amp will you be running the guitar through? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:18
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Currently all I've got is a Fender Princeton 65 DSP and an old WEM ER40 head which I run through an old 1x12" H/H PA cab. I'd love to get a better amp but guitars are so much more tempting, although the current crop of 5 watt class A valve amps for around £100 look like being great little recording amps. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:27
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The Wilkinson Trem looks really cool. Are you planning to upgrade the bridge saddles to Graphtech's?
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:46
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I might do it depends on how it performs initially, if the tuning is stable and the intonation is good I personally don't see the point particularly since I could put the money spent on those saddles towards a new set of pickups for my other guitars which could really do with an upgrade. Particularly my Steinberger which was fitted with EMG Selects at the factory, I'd like to get some Seymour Duncans or similar brand pickups to replace the rubbish Selects, although if I could afford to I would be putting some proper EMGs in it. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:49
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Do you go on the seymourduncan.com/forum? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:56
| I'm not a member of any music forums other than this one. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 26 2008 at 05:56
Well having normal or Graphtec saddles won't have any effect on intonation. A benefit you may or may not be aware of, is that you are far less likely to break strings with Graphtec saddles, so the cost of buying them will be eventually recouped by having to buy less strings, and you would be able to recoup the money spend on Graphtec saddles in less than a year, and eventually in the long run it will end up cheaper than not having them.
Are EMG selects are passive if I remember correctly. If you do plan on putting real EMG's in the Steinberger, don't bother with EMG passives, they really aren't all that good. But if you still want to get passives and not have to add a 9v battery to your guitar, defintely go for Seymour Duncans.
What kind of output level from the pickups do you want? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 26 2008 at 06:17
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I don't tend to break sting very often now that I've changed from 9s to 10s on my guitars except my baritone which has very thick strings which are needed to cope with the low tuning. So the graphtec saddles are probably a waste of money at the moment. Yes the EMG Selects are passive, if I do replace the pickups I think I'm going to go with a versatile pickup set as I like my guitars to be able to handle lots of styles of playing from ambient to metal, I suspect I'll be adding coil taps for the humbuckers (it's an H-S-H guitar). As for the active/passive issue I am still undecided there, I suspect I'll just go for the cheaper option. One thing that will be important however will be keeping the look of the guitar intact so I'm definitely going to be wanting pickups which have the usual EMG style covers rather than the Gibson PAF style. But on the main subject of the thread I've finally been able to make a start on my Strat, I've got the pickguard assembled and ready to solder and hopefully I should be able to buy the vertical drill stand/small pillar drill I need to drill holes for the bridge and neck fairly soon, I'm just waiting for a cheque to clear. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 31 2008 at 05:39
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Oh bugger! I've managed to cut the nut slot correctly but sods law has ensured that the nut the neck was supplied with is a piece of rubbish and promptly snapped as soon as I tried to install it. I'm taking no chances with the replacement nut, I've gone for an official fender brass one as used on the Yngwie Malmsteen signature model, I doubt I'll be able to break that. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 31 2008 at 06:20
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^Snapped straight away, bugger. Brass nuts are cool, Graphtech nuts are even better, last longer and reduce string hitching in the nut to almost zero and cost about the same as a brass nut anyway.
Did you just cut the nut for now and that's it, or are you in full swing getting more done? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: March 31 2008 at 06:42
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Unfortunately I am having to wait for the new nut to arrive as at the moment it's my highest priority, then I can get to work actually installing the neck and getting the bridge setup. Between now and the nut arriving (that's going to take 2 weeks as I'm importing it from the US) I can get a few jobs done like getting holes drilled for the bridge ground wire, fitting the jack socket, fitting the tuners etc but nothing major. EDIT: I've managed to get practically everything I can do to the body and neck done without the use of a pillar drill or vertical mount for a normal drill, I'll be getting that sorted at the weekend. Currently the tuners, string retainer bar, jack socket mount and strap buttons are all fitted and holes for the bridge ground wire and output wire to the jack are drilled. Hopefully I'll be able to get the neck drilled and attached to the body over the weekend and the bridge I should be able to work on during next week. But the next job to tackle will be getting the pickguard soldered up as I've still not got round to it. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 05:44
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Just wondering, how does the neck joint heel look?
Is it like a bulky Fender type heel?
Or like a Warmoth type shaved heel? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 03 2008 at 06:31
| It's the bulky Fender variety but I'm used to that sort of heel so it's not a problem and I don't tend to play that high up the neck anyway so the advantages of a shaved heel would be wasted on me. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 05:05
Ohh, forgot to say this last time, got caught up in something I think.
I strongly recommend you join the Seymour Duncan User Group forums, you can ask questions about any brand of pickup, not just Seymour Duncan, and someone is likely to point you in a good direction as to what pickup/s will suit your guitar and playing style/s.
There is also a section for guitars, amps, tips and sound clips, and an interesting off topic room.
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 04 2008 at 06:17
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Just had a look around the Seymour Duncan forum, if I ever need serious advice about pickups it'll definitely be my first stop. EDIT: Speaking of pickups, I've just got the pickguard wired up and ready for installation. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 06:47
It's all starting to come together now, I've got the neck and body
attached and all that's left to do is fitting the bridge, nut, wired up
pickguard, and then making the final few electrical connections (output
from volume control to the output jack, bridge ground and jack ground. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 08:29
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Ohh, I like the way the Wilkinson bridge looks on that, looks way better than the vintage 6 screw trem IMHO. Good job so far
Oh, what resistance pot value do you have for your pickups? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 07 2008 at 10:42
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I agree completely, the Wilkinson trem looks better than a vintage six screw and in theory should work a lot better too, hopefully during the week I can make a start on mounting it. I went for 250k pots as they're the type usually used for single coils. From an electrical point of view this guitar is definitely a traditional strat. I really want the brass nut to arrive soon so I can start playing it as it feels like it's going to play really nicely. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 11:54
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Suffered a major setback today, firstly the installation instructions supplied with my Wilkinson trem are wrong and I've ended up with loose mounts, so if I've got to buy some dowel and fill the holes and redrill them but I won't be doing that since I've discovered that all the routs on the body are slightly misaligned and therefore even if I do fit the bridge properly the guitar won't be playable anyway. A warning for everyone don't buy bodies from Axesrus.co.uk they clearly sell utter rubbish. I can't afford a replacement neck and body so I'm afraid this project is over unless I can somehow scrape enough money together to buy some Warmoth parts.  |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 12:13
Damn, that sucks man
Personally, I would have gone straight for Warmoth anyway, they may not be the cheapest (not to say they are expensive though), but their reputation is excellent.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 12:19
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Which routs are misaligned? ------------- What? |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 12:20
| The bridge and neck pocket. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 12:23
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Ah. That's surely a case for returning the body to Axesrus for a refund. (ie "not fit for use") ------------- What? |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 12:30
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Unfortunately it's a 'b' spec body and is non returnable, my fault for buying a cheap body. EDIT: Had a discussion with my parents and they're willing to part finance a replacement body but I've been ordered to find the cheapest body possible and if I do that I'll end up with another piece of rubbish. Plus they're not convinced that I need a new neck either but I suspect that the neck I've got probably won't fit any body I buy now. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 12:59
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^ I'd PM Trademark before doing anything too drastic ------------- What? |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 13:21
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I will but I'm currently researching unfinished bodies and necks from Warmoth and Carvin it seems that Carvin are the cheaper option but are not compatible with standard fender spec hardware due to the neck mounting system Carvin use. I think at this stage with my woodworking abilities (or lack of) I need to buy a body and neck from the same manufacturer which are certain to fit together. One thing I want to ensure is that I do use the Wilkinson trem and electrics which were the most expensive part of the original purchase, I'm hopeful that the neck I've got will be usable with an old body I've got hanging around with some filling and redrilling so not all is lost. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: April 11 2008 at 16:40
| Talk to me man! If I can sort out what's wrong with the body you have, I may be able to help you out . If not I have a Strat body I might be able to send you way without killing your budeget. Its a blonde Swamp Ash body already set up for a Wilkinson and 3 single coils. Stock Fender neck mounting so it should match your neck. It was originally intended for Roye Albrighton of Nektar (He has two of my guitars already), but he chose a slightly different body shape and size in the end. Now it has no home. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 12 2008 at 03:04
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Thanks for the offer Trademark, PM sent. Currently my only options are Trademark's very kind offer and Warmoth as Carvin don't ship abroad and the local dealer don't stock parts. I might as well post my initial thoughts for the Warmoth parts but there are still a few bits to be determined such as the neck finish: Body: universal rout, Wilkinson bridge rout made from either maple, mahogany or walnut (this depends on neck finishing costs). Neck, total vintage construction, fat back, 6130 frets, gotoh/grover tuner holes, maple/rosewood, finish yet to be decided. EDIT: Typical, the brass nut arrived this morning and it doesn't fit the neck I've got. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: April 12 2008 at 15:15
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I've bought plenty of stuff from Axesrus and never had a problem, haven't bought a body though. I fitted a Warmoth neck (paduak with an ebony fingerboard) to my Mexican Fender Strat. I saved some money because paduak doesn't need to be oiled or lacquered but it was still fairly expensive. I've had some success using Colron Antique Oil to finish necks and bodies. Obviously it isn't as hard-wearing as lacquer but it is cheap and easy to use, just take your time. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 12 2008 at 15:27
| Well I will agree that the hardware I bought from them is top notch but I'm not buying the wooden bits from them again, I am investigating different options for the neck currently Satine with a Pau Ferro fretboard looks tempting and should look great on Trademark's body plus it wouldn't need a finish. I'm going to wait until I've got the body before ordering the neck though and I intend to have a lot of discussions with Warmoth about what I need. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 13 2008 at 07:02
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Have you got a pic of the body Trademark has? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 13 2008 at 12:56
Yeah I do, I must admit I was expecting something paler but it's still a really nice body and the the grain is excellent. My initial thoughts for a bloodwood/pau ferro neck for this body are definitely not suitable as I don't think the colour of the bloodwood would go well with that finish.  |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 25 2008 at 03:32
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Any progress lately? -------------
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 25 2008 at 14:13
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Not got the new body, I'm still waiting for Trademark to come back with a price for it. However I have made some choices for the new neck: All rosewood Jumbo frets (6150s IIRC) preinstalled graphite nut (saves me a bit of hassle) Gibson style neck size. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 06:09
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All rosewood? Neck and fretboard? Sounds good but a bit expensive.
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 27 2008 at 08:39
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An unfinished all rosewood neck is only $15 or so more expensive than a finished maple/rosewood neck plus rosewood doesn't need a finish. In my opinion the extra cost is worth it just for the look of the neck. My other thoughts for woods are Bubinga, Goncalo Alves or Wenge with a rosewood board which would cost the same as the all rosewood neck or upgrading to a Pau Ferro board which would add $10 to the final price but my current preference is the all rosewood option. However everything could change once I get the body. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: April 28 2008 at 10:35
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I thought all-rosewood would be much more expensive! ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 28 2008 at 13:00
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It's 'only' Indian Rosewood which is comparatively cheap (for an exotic wood), if it were all Brazilian Rosewood then it would be very expensive, and even if I could afford a Brazilian Rosewood neck Warmoth don't export them. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 29 2008 at 22:56
That's a pretty good choice there, especially the graphite nut, those last so long
 If you haven't already made the definite choice of the neck, I can recommend to you 6105 frets. They are taller and slightly narrower than 6150s, and the taller the frets you have the less pressure you have to put on the strings to hold them down and after a while you play more relaxed, faster, cleaner, and plus better vibrato control. -------------
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: April 29 2008 at 23:32
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^Wouldn't you be able to get the same effect by lowering the action of the guitar?
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 30 2008 at 02:46
It's not that simple in all cases. You have to take into account fretsize and fretboard radius as to how low your action can go and how much pressure you need to put on the strings to depress them.
Having taller frets forces you to develop a lighter touch as to not push the strings out of correct intonation as you play them, so you learn to depress more lightly on the strings. You can have a guitar with a 16 inch radius, which allows an extremely low action, but the fact is you will be able to play faster on a guitar with a 16 inch radius with tall frets than a 16inch radius axe that has small frets, purely because your fingers are touching less wood each time, and this is not really related to the action of the guitar anyway. Ultimately the easiest action would be achieved by the largest radius you can get and easier playability aided by bigger frets. -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 30 2008 at 02:49
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^ agreed. Tall frets also make bending strings much easier if you use a very low action, they're essentially a less extreme version of scalloped fretboards.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: April 30 2008 at 03:36
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The reason I'm going for the 6150s (although I will consider the 6105s) is that I prefer the feel of Gibson style frets, father than the traditional Fender style. String bending I don't really tend to do much of so as long as small bends are easy I'm not really bothered, plus I'm using a Wilkinson trem so for larger changes in pitch I've got that.
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: June 24 2008 at 10:07
Has it really been 2 months since I last updated this thread? Anyway I'm glad to say that I finally have the new body that I bought from Trademark, and it's a really nice one too. Now I just need to wait for my university to give me the bursary they owe me and I can order the neck. |
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: June 24 2008 at 12:14
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It looks great -------------
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Posted By: mr70s
Date Posted: August 13 2008 at 20:01
| Very nice ! |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: August 13 2008 at 21:37
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Cripes! I admire anybody who can craft a guitar...especially one as beautiful as this (partial to Strats myself). Nice, nice work!!!!  E ------------- 
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 12:02
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A small update for everyone, in a few weeks I should be in a position to finally order the neck to complete this project, I'm still not sure exactly what woods, fret size etc that I'm going to go for but I'm definitely going to be getting a neck that's not normal on a strat. I would have ordered the neck earlier but I've had a few financial issues in the past couple of months. |
Posted By: mr70s
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 16:32
Why the resistance to a 'normal' Strat neck ? 
Just thinking, the 50's style deep V one piece Strat neck can hardly be called normal ! I think it's the best for tone, although you do have to adapt your left hand to suit. It encourages thumb over the top playing. I fitted mine with jumbo frets, and it has a fairly low action. The fretboard radius is a relatively small 7.25 inch, so you will never get a super low shredding action as notes would choke when bending.
To be honest, that classy body needs a classy neck, and I would definitely go with one of the standard neck
options.
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: August 14 2008 at 19:05
| Roye Albrighton (for whom I originally built that body) asked for a flame maple/rosewood neck with no inlay and a traditional Fender shape for the headstock. Roye got busy with touring before the neck was completely finished and sort of lost interest in getting it all done. It did look good without the inlay dots though (side dots only). That body color just cries out for a nice dark rosewood fretboard. Roy wanted a black pickguard and gold hardware with it. i think the parts Nick used look better than the mock-up I did with the other parts. Nice job Nick! |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 02:48
| Yeah I've been thinking about a dark fretboard wood, at the moment I'm torn between Ebony, Pau Ferro or Rosewood, out of those 3 I've only ever played a Rosewood fretboard so I'd really like to try Ebony or Pau Ferro. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 11:24
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Pau Ferro feels almost identical to rosewood. They are genetic cousins after all. It tends to be a bit drier (less natural oil) and so some say it feels a bit "faster" to the touch. I almost always add a fretboard oil to protect the wood and so the difference is essentially lost on me. Pau Ferro does tend to be lighter in color (often a sort of dusty dark mustard color so it might not look as good as you want with that body. A little fretboard oil will darken it some, but not to a real rosewood color.
Ebony, on the other hand, really does have quite a different feel. It is harder, denser and smoother than rosewood and so it does feel faster to the touch. A lot of the old Jackson, Ibanez and Kramer "Shred Machines of the 80's had ebony boards. If you're into that you'll probably like ebony. It is tougher than rosewood or maple so you won't wear the playing grooves into it anytime soon either. You should expect to pay about 20%- 30% more for a re-fret though. Ebony likes to chip and split so fret removal must be done more slowly and carefully and little repairs using superglue and/or epoxy are common making the job take longer. I wouldn't let a fact like that over-ride playability, but it is nice to know in advance. |
Posted By: mr70s
Date Posted: August 15 2008 at 18:33
| I don't think anything can come close to Brazilian rosewood for that smooth, waxy feel that makes string bending a pleasure. I think that the species has been almost wiped out unfortunately. To me, ebony seems to exhibit drag when using vibrato, although it's certainly harder wearing, and does give (to my ears), an articulate quality to the sound whether clean or distorted. The combination of a maple neck with ebony fretboard gives great clarity to a heavily distorted sound. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 10:21
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I have an ebony board on one of my strats and to me it feels similar to a lacquered maple board.
------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: September 30 2008 at 06:05
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I've finally ordered the neck, it's one of Warmoth's showcase items and
when I saw it I just had to own it. It'll be fitted with stainless
steel 6105 frets and a graphite nut by Warmoth. The neck is made entirely from Pau Ferro and in my opinion is a thing of beauty.   Hopefully it won't take too long to arrive. I'm really looking forward to finally finishing this project. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 01 2008 at 05:39
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a friend of a friend has just built this rather sexy bass:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uNXTgvbui4M/SMgvzKqB6qI/AAAAAAAAAVI/_GWKuxETFCY/s1600-h/MBA+front.jpg">
 see more here: http://www.moonbassalpha.blogspot.com/ - Moon Base Alpha ------------- What? |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: October 08 2008 at 07:31
Well the neck has arrived much faster than I expected it to, nice one Warmoth.  It's a little bit darker that the photos from the Warmoth site suggested but that's actually a good thing in my opinion. I'm very happy to report that it fits the body perfectly, all I've had to do to the body is sand away some excess finish inside the pocket, unfortunately however the bolt holes on the body and neck don't match up so I've filled the holes on the neck and I'm going to leave that overnight to cure. I should be able to get everything bar the final set up finished quite quickly but I'm not going to rush it. The first job I'm going to tackle is fitting the Wilkinson bridge which could be an interesting experience. After that's done I'll probably fit the pickguard and jack socket. Then I'll move on to the neck and get the tuners and string retainer fitted. Then the final job should be re drilling the neck and getting it fitted. Hopefully I should finaly have a playable guitar fairly soon. Here's a pic of the neck I appologise for the poor quality of the photo my camera is playing up at the moment and I'm really struggling to get a decent photo from it.  |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 05:44
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Make sure you've got enough clearance between the scratchplate and the underside of the 22nd fret overhang. I took the Warmoth neck off my strat to put it on a thinline tele body but didn't check first. When I tightened the neck screws here was a loud crack! The dusty end of the fretboard has now separated itself from the neck. It's fixable but there was a great deal of swearing at the time. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 06:24
| That's not a problem for me the only problem I've got at the moment is a couple of snapped screws in the head that need removing (I was installing the tuners and the screws Gotoh provided were utter rubbish), rather than risk ruining the neck by trying to remove the screws myself I'm going to send the neck to a professional guitar repairer and get it done properly, I may give him the body too and just ask him to finish the build for me, that will depend on price though. |
Posted By: mr70s
Date Posted: November 02 2008 at 20:13
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I have found Gotoh hardware to be good quality. It's likely that the problem you had was due to the pilot holes being too small, or not deep enough. The hole has to be big enough for the shank to clear. It does take a little pracice to get right - try on some scrap pieces first. It is imperative to use a good quality screwdriver of the correct size. It's not necessary to apply a large force to these screws. Years of tinkering with cheap guitars gave me some experience, and it's not so bad when you make a mistake !
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 02:37
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Nope I did the research and huge numbers of people have had issues with the screws Gotoh provide, I was also very careful with the pilot holes, they were all slightly deeper than was required. I'm not going to take any more risks though I'm going to get the tuners and string retainer installed by a professional and then I'll simply be able to bolt the neck on to the body, string it up and set it up. |
Posted By: mr70s
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:05
| These poor quality screws are interesting, is there any links you can post as I'd like to learn more. |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:49
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Not got any at the moment I'm afraid lost them all during a recent purge of useless files, just search for 'gotoh tuner screw failure' or something similar and I'm sure you'll find a few of the things I did, but on a positive note the neck is now at the repairer and he should be giving me a call tomorrow with a quote on the repair cost. Now I just need to perform some slight rewiring of the electronics (I managed to get the cables for the neck and bridge pickups the wrong way round), just my luck to buy a switch that doesn't use a standard layout I guess. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:06
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^ Ha! is there such a thing as a standard pick-up switch layout? ------------- What? |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 03:49
| There are a few standards that the 5 way switches tend to use, typically though the one I've got is none of them. |
Posted By: glasshouse27
Date Posted: November 07 2008 at 05:08
| Hey man I would totally throw some humbuckers on that if i were you! |
Posted By: glasshouse27
Date Posted: November 07 2008 at 05:13
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That is one sexy looking bass!!! Only thing is with that much material routed out you must lose a lot of tone. right? i don't know a lot about basses though.
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Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: November 07 2008 at 11:27
No need for humbuckers on this particular guitar, particularly since I've got a Steinberger with an HSH set up and an Epi SG with the usual 2 humbuckers. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: November 07 2008 at 23:24
Nice |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: November 14 2008 at 14:28
I got the neck back from the tech today and he did a really good job, all I now need to do is attach the neck to the body, string it up and set it up.  Sorry about the low quality of the pic the light available to take this was terrible. |