Kosovo - a new country in Europe
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Printed Date: January 22 2025 at 13:00
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Topic: Kosovo - a new country in Europe
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Subject: Kosovo - a new country in Europe
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 10:42
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So, today Kosovo declared independence. What will be the implications? Do you agree that this act states a precedent for other provinces of European countries such as North Ireland or the Basque Provinces? Three EU states - Cyprus, Romania and Slovakia - have told other EU governments that they will not recognise Kosovo. And, obviously, Russia who said that Western recognition of an independent Kosovo could have implications for the Georgian breakaway provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The head of Serbian Orthodox Church, bishop Artemije, said that Serbia should mobilize its army and take the rebellious province by force... The article on BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7249034.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7249034.stm ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Replies:
Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 10:55
What about Chechnya? ------------- Hail Eris! 
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Tuzvihar wrote:Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 11:55
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My head hurts.
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 13:05
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Let's see: Cyprus won't recognise Kosovo because it's afraid this would set a precedent for the Turkish part of Cyprus. Russia won't recognise Kosovo because it's afraid it'll fall apart. Slovakia won't recognise Kosovo because it's afraid this would set a precedent for ... whom? Moravia? Or some sort of Slovakian territory where the Hungarian minority is actually a majority? Romania won't recognise Kosovo because it's afraid this would set a precedent for ... whom? The Hungarian minority again? And Bosnia prolly won't recgnise Kosovo, because of what, Hertzegovina? What a mess. Bring back the Roman Empire, I say. I can be emperor. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 13:07
just make me minister of music.. you can have the damn throne  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 13:16
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If we're talking about the Roman Empire, as PA's only resident Roman citizen, I demand to be made empress... Seriously speaking, though, this is a potentially very divisive (if not downright explosive) situation. As a staunchly non-patriotic person, I have trouble in understanding either point of view. Cherishing our own roots is one thing, fragmentation is another. On the other hand, being part of a larger state shouldn't mean that the aforementioned roots should be disrespected, or even annihilated.... It certainly is not an easy issue, and there are no easy solutions. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 13:24
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To tell you guys he truth, I have no idea why Romania (that is the Romanian government/president/political "force", cause no one's done anything but to speak his opinion "assuming it's in the name of the people') doesn't recognize the independence.
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 13:26
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Cool, so to be fair then, Micky will have to be emperor. And I'll be the general who gets to overthrow you. TBH, the whole Balkans should be divided into as many countries as they have ethnicities/religions, and every country should be for one Balkan people only. It'll prolong their average lifespan. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 13:37
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^ I'll just settle for being the Empress's sex slave hahahhahah bot... being a dipsh*t American.. didn't really understand the Balkans that well.. hell still may not.. but I just read a comprehensive.. Massive book on the history of the Ottoman Empire. Very enlightening. As far as the current situation.. god knows... I see where Raff is coming from... there are no easy answers.. you want to be happy for the Kosovo-ians (  ) but at the same time.. .does the world need another flash point. NO.. not really------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:20
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I just hid a post here, as well as a few that quoted it. Reason needs no further explanation to those who saw it. Be careful, and think before you write, or this thread is over and done with. And I don't think I have to explain that any remarks made here that are, or border on, racism will result in more severe actions.  ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:30
| If criticising some of the most disgusting examples of human stupidity makes me racist, then so be it. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:33
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No need to be impressed, folks... I guess that in this moment there are more than one hundred "countries" around the world (and the Moon too, I'm quite sure) waiting to be recognized... but some never will. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:35
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@Visitor: no need to have that debate here. It wasn't your post that caused me to take action. Just stay on topic.
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:39
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Ghandi 2 and I said more or less the same thing. Anyway, enough off-topicness from me. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:42
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anyhow .. caught up in the hidden posts .. was a suggestion... anyone interested in the area.. and history might find this book as fascinating.. and educational as I did. A 'scholarly' book that was well written and not dry at all. Well written.  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:45
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I've seen that book at an airport book store once, and it looked interesting. Never got around to buying it then or later, and I had to run to catch a flight at the time. Maybe when I run into it again...
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:48
But you still hasn't answered my question...
------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:50
| Cyprus, Romania, Russia and Slovakia seem to think so. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 15:54
it was really interesting... took awhile to read though. But recommended. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 16:06
It does to some, not to others. From what I know, the Basques would maybe grab the opportunity, Northern Ireland seems to be more torn between being part of the UK or being part of Ireland. The same question could be asked about Belgium, although they are quite a few steps behind. They've been struggling for months to get a new government set up, while the Flemish at some point wanted to declare their independence. But, I don't know all details of either case, and given that borders and governments have shifted frequently since the days of Raff's beloved Roman Empire, what makes us think we are civilised enough in this century to end that here and now? ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 16:09
| How is Montenegro doing, by the way? They've been independent from Serbia for some time now, and bloodshed was avoided (at least I think so, I rarely watch the news). |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 18:08
It's basically unanimous among Kosovoans (?) to become independent, so why not? Why would they have to get permission from their overlord (Serbia) to do so? Does that make sense? And Why should the EU even factor into it? If some section of Canada wanted to secede, would NAFTA have to approve? 
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Hirgwath
Date Posted: February 17 2008 at 21:33
NATO (the major EU powers and America) factors into it because it backs Kosovo, while Russia (and some of its former satellite states) backs Serbia. I'm starting to get worried about a new Cold War-esque era. ------------- Skwisgaar Skwigelf: taller than a tree. Toki Wartooth: not a bumblebee. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 05:46
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Moravia (capital is Brno) is a province of Czeckia, not Slovakia.
I would say that most countries not recognizing Kosovo are mopre afraid of sparking another conflict with Serbia as aneighbour or having their encumbrant p^rotector Russia on their backs.
As for EU, it does have its say, because it wants peace in the region, and one of the manner to achieve it is to integrate all these countries in the midlong term. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 07:25
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The whole Serbian/Kosovan/Albanian situation is one which bears close scrutiny for the forseeable future; I'm sure we all remember the ethnic cleansing in the 1990s which fractured the former Yugoslavia; feelings are still running high in that area of Europe, especially among Serbians, who view Kosovan independance with angry & hungry eyes.
Evidently, I'm not the only one a tad worried, as just under 1,000 UK soldiers are currently on high alert in case of ethnic unrest/violence. A worrying time again for Europe...
This is a whole different can of worms... the fracturing of the Irish state into Eire (ie Southern Irish Republic) and the seven counties which constitute Northern Ireland led to decades of civil unrest, violence & resentment toward the British Government; this has only recently settled down, but I suspect only temporarily... ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 06:47
  so much for my supposed familiarity with the region... |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 07:30
You don't have the right to found a separate country on the soil of another country without the consent of that country ... no matter if you're a single person, a small community or several million people. If this was possible, we would soon have hundreds of thousands of independent countries all over the world ... What should be done instead is to enforce human rights in those countries. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aoty-2024/vote" rel="nofollow - 2024 Release Poll Listened to: 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 10:48
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^ Well, yeah, but don't you think their reason is one of the best out there?
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 11:41
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^ I sympatize with them ... I just think that there are other, better solutions for their problem. If they get their own country then dozens of minorities all over Europe will demand the same - the Basks in Spain for example. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aoty-2024/vote" rel="nofollow - 2024 Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 10:26
I totally agree with Mike's point here. You have to remember that this is Serbian ground (I believe this is a fact). After the bombing of 1999 the majority of Serbs left the Kossovo area for northern parts of Serbia. At that time the ratio between Albanians and Serbs was not 8/1 as it is right now. You have to take a look behind all this situation. The Kossovo Prime Minister was a founder member of UCK, for those who are familiar with the Balkan affairs. Bombings played their part in this continuous partition... You see smaller states are more easily controlled... |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 14:59
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It's very interesting to see some powers encouraging the creation of an artifical nation (Kosovo) while in the past these same powers did everything to finish with a legitimate one (East Timor).
Well, since they lost their cause in Timor, I'm quite sure they'll lose in Kosovo too... this "nation" will revert to Serbia sooner or later IMO. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 09:30
Not entirely, no. Remember that while Serbia has committed shocking attrocities in Kosovo, Kosovans have done the same to Serb and other minorities in Kosovo. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 11:49
That is worrying me too. This is most likely sabre rattling on the Russians part, but their position is clear. Somehow this story managed to elude our prime time news over here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7258801.stm - Russians ready to use force over Kosovo |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 14:58
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As far as I know, Russia backs Serbia for a very simple reason - they don't want Kosovo to set a dangerous example for the numerous parts of the Russian Federation that wouldn't be averse to proclaiming their independence as well. This of course doesn't mean that it could not spark off another Cold War - just that this time the premises would be practical rather than ideological. As for getting permission, it is a much more complicated matter than that. We do have a gang of dangerous nutjobs in Italy who would like to proclaim their independence from the rest of the country (because, according to them, we "Roman thieves" are sucking their blood, i.e. their money  ) - however, if they ever dared to do anything of the sort, Italy would be justified by its Constitution in intervening militarily in order to regain the seceding provinces. I suppose the situation in Serbia is similar, with the added problem of ethnic hatred between Serbians and Kosovans of Albanian descent. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 07 2008 at 14:17
| I don't think Kosovo is ready for independence just yet. Serbia has been acting unpleasantly though. |
Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: March 07 2008 at 14:55
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Chavez saids that he dont recognize Kosovo...he has the interest of be friend of Russia,China..etc and for say the contrary of USA... ------------- Hi progmaniacs of all the world |