Best guitarist - Technique and speed...
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Topic: Best guitarist - Technique and speed...
Posted By: The T
Subject: Best guitarist - Technique and speed...
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 17:13
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yes... this is NOT the thread for the Hacketts, the Fripps, and so on. Here some unholy names like Malmsteen or Petrucci are welcomed..... So, from your knowledge of the instrument or from what you hear and say "how the hell will I do that", who is the best guitarist in terms of TECHNIQUE< SPEED, FINGERING, and all of that?? ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 17:22
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Posted By: unclemeat69
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 17:25
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Joe Satriani comes to mind
------------- Follow your bliss |
Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 17:29
Well I guess you're going to get the answer you want since you made the guidelines so rigid.  .
Micheal Romeo (Symphony X) - Don't quite understand how he goes from crazy speed picking to some legato riffs then right into sweeping and sweeping+tapping arpeggios is beyond me. Extremely versatile when it comes to the technical parts of soloing. Also he isn't over technical about it like Micheal Angelo or Rusty Cooley. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 17:40
George Benson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Df_7IaKmfI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Df_7IaKmfI
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The T wrote:Posted By: Endless Wire
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 18:33
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It has been proven that Shawn Lane is the fastest guitar player in the world. I think he can pick something like 19 notes per second or some such number. Search for him on youtube and watch the sick lick video. It is mind blowing, especially that lick around 2:36. ------------- . |
Posted By: maups2
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 19:52
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Technique? Jason Becker used to be great but he was diagnosed with ALS. Malmsteen's good. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the most technical, but he's kind of a knob. |
Posted By: Cylli Kat
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 20:08
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As a thirty year veteran shredmeister, I'd have to say that the guys who most blow me away (at least right this moment), would be: 1. Guthrie Govan 2. Allan Holdsworth 3. Michael Romeo 4. John Petrucci 5. Tony MacAlpine ------------- [Insert Clever Phrase Here] |
Posted By: Crimson King420
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 20:19
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Jan Akkerman
------------- Sing hymns, make love, get high, fall dead. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 20:45
| gonna go with an odd choice and say buckethead. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 20:50
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I can't pick between these guys: Rusty Cooley (believe it or not, he has feeling in his playing) , Shawn Lane ( A monster at wide intervals) Buckethead (seen those tapping skills anyone), Jason Becker (sweeping like that at the age of 17!) The Great Kat (mega fast, but music mega sucks), Chris Impellitteri, Jeff Loomis (7 STRING SWEEP PICKING ANYONE Michael Angelo is actually less technically proficient than most people realise (as well as a prog fan, I'm an avid follower of the shred guitar scene).
Plus i love Micheal Romeo, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Allan Holdsworth, Tony Macalpine, Marty Friedman, Guthrie Govan and Randy Rhoads, but perhaps at least most of these guys are just a tiny step lower in technique then the guys in the above list, but that hardly says much, because all these guys are virtuosos. ------------- 
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, plus an amazing ability to combine techniques into runs, seemlessly going between tapping, alternate picking, tapping, and legato, plus his solos are so emotive
), Bumble Foot, Paul Gilbert, Jasun Tipton (from Zero HourPosted By: akiko
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 21:10
| 2 words: Allan Holdsworth |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 21:45
he may have been when he was alive for sheer speed, Vivian Campbell in his youth - with an Irish metal band called Sweet Savage no one remembers - has some of the fastest that I've heard ..but some of that is 'bluff' for solid all around technique and facility, I'd say Holdsworth or Satch mentions to Jarzombek, Eric Johnson, and for blues knowledge and technique no one came close to Stevie |
Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 22:26
| AL Di Meola AND Steve Morse |
Posted By: *Porcupine*
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 22:37
| Steven Rothery AKA God |
Posted By: puma
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 22:39
| Michael Romeo has the most taste in his shredding, and he's in the best band |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 00:05
While I love Shawn Lane and find him to be one of the most tasteful guitarists that can play that fast (many of his songs bring me to tears), as absurd as it may seem to some people that have watched him on youtube (or live if you were even luckier, i never got that privilege), there are many guitarists out there faster than Shawn Lane, in fact some people significantly so. An Australian guitarist, Jeremy Barnes, did a guitar clinic in Melbourne two years ago, and he performed 16th note alternate picking at 400 bpm, approximately 26.7 notes per second. It's been reputed his clocked over 500bpm, although it seems like a fantasy, so im only willing to go with what i saw with my own eyes, 400bpm in 16th notes (quite jaw dropping stuff if you ever see this guy). -------------
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Posted By: Ahmadbarqawi
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 02:00
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For me, Vinnie Moore is the best Guitarist in terms of technique & speed
After him i'd give my vote to: Steve Vai, Neil Zaza, Andy Timmons, Jorn Viggo Lofstad (Pagan's Mind), Kiko Loureiro & Axel Rudi Pell
& we might as well mention the late Criss Oliva of Savatage, this guy was light years ahead of his time
------------- {Flashlights shade shrunken views Of a red demon’s foxtrot in brews Guns & flowers crown morning news Panic-stricken guilt now ensues} |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 02:38
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Uh, Blackmore? For combing speed, technique, memorability and emotional resonance, the last of which is tricky as hell, 'cause it's all personal and crap.
But what TRULY earned me Mr. Blackmore's eternal trust was a video I saw of him doin' "Burn" at the California Jam, doing all them speedy solos, for which he only needed one hand...and he was looking down at said hand with DISGUST, with a face that said, "Oh come on Ritchie! You can get to that note note .0037 seconds faster! What's WRONG with you man! This is awful!"
And truly, it was the best day ever. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 02:38
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Vai.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 03:06
Vai is amazing, but his more of an all around virtuoso, good at many techniques, but a master of none. Hence why i couldn't pick him as the "best". -------------
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Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 13:09
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Well Alvin Lee is other,..but after I will post more names.Van Halen etc etc ------------- Hi progmaniacs of all the world |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 17:52
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Posted By: SilverSean
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 22:50
Ahem. Was the fastest.
RIP Shawn ------------- Hold on to the Dream... |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 00:56
Read my post on the first page about that one. -------------
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Posted By: 1vic
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 10:46
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That thread is irrelevant. It's not like all the guitar players perform the same piece of music e.g Bumble Bee and such using a metronome so you can tell who is the fastest one. And I want to see it because speeding up the recording is a common practice since the end of 40s.  ------------- Can help with composition, orchestration, harmony, polyphony, musical forms at http://composition4pros.com |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 11:00
Rather "master of all". Which technique hasn't he mastered?  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 11:40
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Although I'm the consumate Holdsworth fan, listening (this morning stuck in a M25 motorway jam)to John McLaughlin and Michael Brecker jamming on th long tune Jazz Jungle (from McLaughlin's The Promise), I was reminded that Johnnie Mac is probably the man ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 15:53
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@1Vic,I usually PM when chastising a member but I am tired of this kind of behavior.Time for a crackdown.
The way you have addressed other people and their opinions and thoughts in this thread is reprehensible.We don't allow that kind of behavior here,and I am sick and tired of newbies coming into this forum and acting like this.Consider this a warning.
And I'LL determine if a thread is irrelevant. -------------  |
Posted By: 1vic
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 21:35
Thanks for the warning, officer. ------------- Can help with composition, orchestration, harmony, polyphony, musical forms at http://composition4pros.com |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 22:23
You see, you're supposed to use your brain and judge for yourself by comparing the musicians and what they play. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 22:35
As I've said, he is certainly great at many techniques, but if your an avid follower of the shred guitar scene like I am (I have no idea if you are you or not, Vai is really a master of composition, but not so much of guitar technique. I am a huge Vai fan, having about 3/4 of his solo albums, Live in Astoria and Visual Sound theories, not to mention all three G3 DVDs. His technique is still very much "80s virtuoso" level, as what happens to many guitarists that are in their technical prime in certain period, resulting in each sucessive generation of guitarists being more technical. Just to make more sense on that point i'll give examples: Jimmy Page/Tony Iommi were very much aof the late 60s guitarists and their technique is firmly rooted in that period, Dave Murray from Iron Maiden developed most of his technique in the 70s and his technique is rooted in that era, Marty Friedman/Joe Satriani/Vai/Malmsteen were very much a part of the 80s shred scene and there technique is rooted in that era, Rusty Cooley/Jasun Tipton/Jeff Loomis were part of the 90s and even today's shred scene and have highly evolved technique.
While Vai is something special, many virtuosos of the 90s/00s can sweep pick, tap, alternate pick, string skip, legato more cleanly and quicker than Vai, some people significantly so. Cooley is faster and cleaner in all those areas then Vai, so i would consider him a master of all those techniques. And few people can match, if any at all, can match Tipton's abilities in mixing sweep picking and alternate picking in one pattern. Master in the 80s? I guess so,l but not so much nowadays. Being a Progmetal Specialist, im assuming you have heard Zero Hour and Tiptons insane technique  -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 25 2008 at 03:01
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^ I am not much impressed by Tipton, to be perfectly honest. I am an avid follower of the shred guitar scene as well, which also means that I'm familiar with this sort of "Vai bashing". What I don't understand is how little you know about Vai's bandwidth of techniques if you really own all these albums/DVDs. First of all: Vai's playing has always been exceptional, even in the 80s. Just compare his playing on for example Passion and Warfare to what Satriani was playing at the time. Secondly, if you look at Vai in the 90s or 2000s you'll discover that he expanded his playing to totally different techniques again ... just two words: fretless, sustainer ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbAi7fa2yZo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbAi7fa2yZo ). There may be guitarist who play faster than Vai, but Vai is - at least for me - the ultimate combination of emotional playing, masterly technique, flawless execution and innovative composition/songwriting. BTW: I actually agree with your theory that guitar techniques evolve ... a guitarist who begins his career in the 80s has more "building blocks" to use than one of the 1970s, in addition to the techniques which he creates all by himself (which there are very few of). What I don't agree with is that guitarists are stuck in their decade ... some are (Malmsteen most of all), some are not. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: 1vic
Date Posted: January 25 2008 at 08:16
Thank you King Crimson, My point exactly. ------------- Can help with composition, orchestration, harmony, polyphony, musical forms at http://composition4pros.com |
Posted By: 1vic
Date Posted: January 25 2008 at 09:56
I do not find Tipton's technique something out of this world, sorry. ------------- Can help with composition, orchestration, harmony, polyphony, musical forms at http://composition4pros.com |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 00:58
Steve Vai has definitely improved his technique over the years, not a doubt about it (except his sweep picking remains as sloppy as ever). His playing on the triple neck guitar on I Know You're Here on G3: Live in Denver was absolutely mind blowing, and his use of the bottom neck with the Fernandes Sustainer and Fretless Board was very cool. Certainly Steve Vai, although the bulk of his technique remains in the 80s IMO, his approach to composition and just his general approach to the guitar is certainly still keeping up with the present. As for "Vai bashing", well when I put my post up, to my mind i was just giving my analysis on his playing, and my intention hardly to "Vai Bash". Given Vai is quite simply a god to me and has for the past 3 years had a big impact on the way I think about music and guitar playing. For the Love and Windows To the Soul bring me to tears without fail everytime (and that's just two examples, let alone all the other beautiful work he has done over the years) . I can't say that about many of today's shredders songs.
Another guitar to my mind that has 'the ultimate combination of emotional playing, masterly technique, flawless execution and innovative composition/songwriting' is Joe Satriani, who has had an even bigger influence on my playing style and technique, although i would agree with you in another thread you posted many times on regarding Vai vs Satch, that Vai has the compositional edge and has always been more innovative in his approach, but that's not to say Satch has not been massively influential compositionally wise. Satch's technique over the years has always improved, his use of the Digitech Whammy (which if i recall that pedal was released in 1991) over the years always amazing to me.
As for guitarist stuck in their decade, I think you took my comment as me over-generalising, when i really did mean some guitarist are stuck in their decade, and others are not. Certainly Marty Friedman's compositions have always been fresh, as has some of Vai's and Satch's. As for Malmsteen, there is a reason why I only have 3 of his studio albums, the first two, and Odyssey, which to be honest, was about a 4/10 for me anyway, and the Concerto Suite LIVE DVD.
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Posted By: 1vic
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 09:50
I only keep the first Yngwie's album. I guess, I have better taste... just kidding.  HughesJB4 said: (except his sweep picking remains as sloppy as ever). I am not trying to be annoying I just want to make sure if I am loosing it or you are missing something because I didn't find anything that could be considered sloppy in Vai's technique. Could you be so kind and point me to the right piece where his sloppiness sticks out the most I would really appreciate it. I think I have all his albums except Zappa's period. Thank you HughesJ4B ------------- Can help with composition, orchestration, harmony, polyphony, musical forms at http://composition4pros.com |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 10:14
Maybe it's just a misunderstanding ... to me saying that someone's playing is sloppy "as ever" or to be stuck in the 80s constitutes bashing and simply doesn't makes sense to me when applied to Vai. Even in the 80s his playing was exceptional and hardly comparable to typical guitarists of the time. For example listen to Eat Em And Smile and compare it to 1984. Or listen to the Alcatraz album he played on and compare it to their albums with Yngwie, or even the Whitesnake album where he merely acted as a studio guitarist, playing parts which were already written for Vandenberg ... to everything he adds his own, unique style. If Vai sounds too much like 80s shred then only because he *defined* most of it, together with Satch of course. Listen to Freak Show Excess here: http://www.myspace.com/stevevai - http://www.myspace.com/stevevai ... it both explains why Vai is listed on this website, and just how much his style and sound evolved over the years. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 15:14
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i cant stand guitarists that are all technique and speed and have no emotion, so a lot of the guys i mention have a nice mix of both. Jeff Beck Frank Zappa Steve Morse Robert Fripp the guy from Brand X John McLaughlin Jimi Hendrix Kirk Hammett Allan Holdsworth Trey Anastasio Mike Stern Larry Coryell Pat Metheny John Abercrombie Scott Henderson one man i want to focus on is John Scofield. He may be the most soulful guitarist out there right now, but he can rip it down with the best of them (listen to any of the albums he's on with Miles Davis, Billy Cobham, George Duke, and John Abercrombie) his style is so lyrical, it's almost as if his guitar is an extension of himself. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: cynthiasmallet
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 15:47
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Herman li from Dragonforce ------------- Would you like to watch TV, or get between the sheets, or contemplate the silent freeway, would you like something to eat? |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 17:54
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whats everyone's opinion on Omar from The Mars Volta? he's obviously not the best guitarists but definitly makes good riffs and writes really well thought out music
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 07:29
I assume you own all the G3 DVDs. Put on Live in Tokyo, and go to 1:09:52, (i was using Cyberlink PowerDVD on the 0.5x speed setting), where Vai does 3 sweep picking patterns in his 4 bar solo spot. A friend of mine while watching it for the first time cringed at how sloppy Vai's sweeps were. My father also remarked how the sweeps were not fitting in the musical context. I agree with both these points. I watch this DVD about 10-15 times a month, so it's all pretty well ingrained into my memory. And this is just one example of his sloppy sweeps, keep listening to other works of his and you will find more for sure.
On the first two DVDs , Vai and Satch had the best guitar performances in the jam IMHO, while the 3rd guitarist in Live in Concert and Live in Denver (Eric Johnson and Malmsteen respectively) always came off second best to Vai and Satch.
For live in Tokyo, I found myself having to hand it over to Petrucci/Satch this time round. Vai just didn't seem his best that night, unfortunate given how amazing he was on the Live in Denver jams.
I have always found his sweeping abilities to often be the major sticking point with what is an other very technically adept guitarist. Another thing I have noticed is that Vai's fingering for legato patterns seem to always look slightly sloppy, compared to say, Satch, Shawn Lane or Holdsworth or , but Vai manages to pull it off almost as cleanly as these guys, so aesthetically i can complain about Vai's legato, it has almost always been pulled off great.
Vai's techique while some of it has remained somewhat 80s, his use of the Fretless and Sustainer are certainly not, not to mention the song Building The Church displays a new tapping technique we had not heard from him prior to that, so certainly that was a technique improvement (although it's higly probably someone stumbled across that style of tapping in the late 80s or sometime in the 90s, but that is just a guess really, and anyone with any evidence to back that up or dispute that, feel free to comment).
I have always felt that if their were two sweep pickers of the 80s who knew not only how to do it cleanly, but with a lot of emotional content, it was the mighty pair of Marty Friedman and Jason Becker.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 08:07
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^ It's all about sweep picking for you, isn't it? It's not really that important to me ... I rather tend to look at the complete picture. BTW: If Vai's playing is sloppy, how would you describe Malmsteen's playing? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 09:16
the faster you play the more sloppy you have to be. there is a limit to what can be done with speed. which is why speed does not impress me much musically. I can play piano at breathtaking speed, but what's the point of that? you can't play those semiquavers cleanly once you get beyond a certain speed. and you definitely can't put expression into them that way. when I was younger I also thought that speed was everything and had a similar approach as those slashers. however, nowadays I look at it as a bit puerile. it is like "who can piss the highest?" -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 09:23
Well as a guitarist myself, my tapping, alternate picking and legato skills are all more advanced than my sweeping technique (the only sweep picking pattern I can do cleanly are 3 string sweeps). Legato in fact came the most natural to me, and I've been able to hit up to 16 notes per second in legato. Sweeping is only just a fraction of what features in Vai's and it just happened to be one thing I noticed he was not consistent at executing cleanly everytime. And would I like Friedman or Becker for their sweep picking abilities alone? If that were the case I would like Fancesco Fareri, but I honestly never made it past the 1 min mark of any of his songs, because it sounded so cold and emotionless and his vibrato just made me cringe and press stop. Why do i actually like Becker, Friedman, Vai, Satch, Shawn Lane, et al? Because those guys had the complete package : Fantastic/Innovative compositions, astounding technical skill, the ability to bring out so many different emotions in their playing and compostion, and of course great ability to improvise.
As for the Malmsteen/Vai comparision, i think Malmsteen's vibrato is more consistent, i.e never out of tune. But on the other hand, Vai can vary his vibrato between shallow and wide a lot more. Malmsteen's sweeps are as clean as freshly polished metal, his alternate picking faultless. I can imagine though, through Malmsteen into the pit with Vai in a game of legato and two handed tapping, I bet once Malmsteen goes beyond simple 3 finger tapping (think Eruption) and some more of all over the place legato, and I almost totally guarantee Vai will be the man.
As for who is a better musician overall? Well I have seen both live (Malmsteen on the 16th of November 2006, the day before my 18 birthday
 ) and G3 on their first Aussie tour (Vai, Satch and Petrucci). Both were superb nights. But G3 won hands down.I can listen to Petrucci, Vai, Satch, Lane, Friedman, Becker and Buckethead (and many more that don't instantly come to mind) on a daily basis. Malmsteen might get a listen 10 times a month if his lucky. -------------
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Posted By: Hazlehurst
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 16:40
| Mohammed Suicmez of Necrophagist. So tight, so fast, so creative... just technically sound! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 16:46
I'm really, really glad that I can enjoy so much more music. Fast -> bad. Heavy -> bad. Metal -> bad. Double Bass -> bad. Growling -> bad. Does anybody else see a pattern here? And for the record: Yes, you can play fast *and* emotional/tasteful at the same time. The faster -> the more sloppy ... yes, perhaps as a rule of thumb it's true, but there are players who *can* play really fast and aren't sloppy at all. And this is indeed what distinguishes a true virtuoso from other players who are "just" very good. They control their instrument, and not the other way round. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L1qYCW7KqQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L1qYCW7KqQ  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: February 01 2008 at 11:14
| Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Satriani and Paco D'Lucia come to mind. These three blow my mind, anybody agree with me on this? |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: February 01 2008 at 14:00
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Tony MacAlpine's worth a mention; great technique and speed but also plays with a lot of melody. He's just as good on Keyboards too!
I'm also a George Lynch fan. He hasn't got the speed of the Malmsteens of this word but a very tasty player nonetheless.
But I tip my hat to Eddie Van Halen, the godfather of shredders.
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Posted By: flickfan82x
Date Posted: February 01 2008 at 15:12
| George Benson........ no doubt about that. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: February 01 2008 at 15:18
/thread ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 04:16
i'm a fan of Necrophagist as well, and Suicmez is certainly a good guitarist, although I wouldn't go so far to call him great. While certainly not lacking in emotion, his solos aren't the most emotive IMO, and not even the most creative either. But I can't argue his technically good, very tight and clean chops and great riffs to boot. -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 05:15
Macalpine is a fantastic player, loads of feeling, beastly technique, and a stunning keyboard player to boot. George, great legato attack, and more willing to be tasteful than Malmsteen. EVH, as a guitar player a hero of mine, great feeling but the band itself, not so much a fan of anything past Van Halen II, too poppy and corny for my tastes, but EVH being in the band can elevate the status of the bands poppier moments a little bit anyway. -------------
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 05:24
ergo Allan Holdsworth is the godfather of godfathers - EvH, Satriani and others have openly acknowledged him ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 10:18
Emmanuel is a stunner on the acoustic guitar, absolutely blistering when he wants too, but always knows where to leave room as well
 Words are generally not enough to speak of how important Satch has been on my own playing, and musical thinking. I saw him at G3 on their first Aussie, and he was in great form. Paco D'Lucia, I'm yet to hear.
I saw DF live last year in May. Herman Li is about half as accurate and precise live than he is in the studio. Onstage beer drinking doesn't help the cause either. -------------
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 11:03
I don't have anything against fast playing. as I said, I can be fast as hell as well. but you definitely lose possibilities for expression the faster you play; expression simply costs time. I think that the product of speed times expression is a constant: the faster you play the less possibilities you have to put expression into a note. a vibrato, for example, takes time. it is not that I never race across the keyboard, but I am very much aware what I am losing when I do, and that is not because I lack virtuosity. and neither is fast play is totally expressionless, it just reduces your possibilities for expression ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 11:22
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^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7rJAEvA-vk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7rJAEvA-vk Some techniques for expression become useless/impossible when playing fast, I give you that. But at the same time other possibilities open up. For example, if you can play ultra-fast parts as fluently and effortlessly as Eddie demonstrates here ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 11:27
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And another one, a bit more impressive musically: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9-XN3mXXtI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9-XN3mXXtI
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 12:40
well, that video pretty much demonstrates what I mean. he is most expressive whenever he slows down, or on the last note of a fast run, with the only exception perhaps being the tremolos ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Utah Man
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:08
not necessarily in order : John McLaughlin... Joe Pass... Chet Atkins... these guys for starters . |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:12
Maybe we really have different definitions of expression or emotion. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:15
Ah yes the master finger-picker Chet Atkins and the legend that is Mclaughlin, both are superb. Never heard Joe Pass before, i won't comment. Doyle Dykes is also a phenominal finger-picker. |
Posted By: unclemeat69
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:19
Don't forget Duck Baker and Leo Wijnkamp jr (a dutch guy who made some albums in the 70's after which he retired from playing guitar) ------------- Follow your bliss |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:54
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQQIT4SJHpY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQQIT4SJHpY Here's some chicken pickin' for your pleasure! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: unclemeat69
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 17:07
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what about this guy? Tuck Andress playing Santana's Europe http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=NtljYur4_T8&feature=related - http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=NtljYur4_T8&feature=related ------------- Follow your bliss |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 18:04
I never said fast is bad. what i said is that the attitude of trying to be the fastest out there is puerile, and I'll stick to that. and I definitely never said heavy is bad. I like it heavy. double bass drum is something especially Friede picks on; as a drummer she finds it distasteful. oh, and I am really glad I am more distinctive in what I like instead of just swallowing all that is being offered to me. you deserve this little tit-for-tat for your comment. fast -> good. heavy -> good. metal -> good. double bass -> good. growling -> good.. does anybody see a pattern here? Paganini was THE violin virtuoso of the 19th century, and his name has become a synonym for virtuosity. people were baffled by the breathtaking speed at which he could play. but the women started to weep when he played his adagios ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 18:30
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^ of course there is a pattern. My taste obviously encompasses a greater variety of styles and techniques than yours. Please note that I don't simply like every piece of music which comes my way ... I'm actually quite particular about what I like and what I don't like. The point is: I usually don't dismiss entire genres or techniques. And even those styles which I don't enjoy I deal with on a "live and let live" basis ... if I mindlessly bashed things I don't understand but many other people understand or even call masterpieces, my bashing would certainly backfire on me. Maybe I simply can't stand negativity ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 18:43
| For a combination of technique and speed, without being sloppy I would say Petrucci, followed by Malmsteen, then Vai, then Satriani and Eric Johnson (In that order) |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 18:44
I don't dismiss entire genres at all. but this "I am the fastest player of the world" attitude simply bores me. and I will stick to it: it is puerile. Glenn Gould recorded the Goldberg variations twice in his life, with about 20 years in between. the first recording of them is simply breathtaking - nobody had ever played them that fast. his second recording was a lot slower, but it is artistically much more convincing, simply because there is a lot more expression in it. I happen to like both versions, but if I had to vote which one would go on the lonely island with me I would pick the 2nd version ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 18:57
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Most of my favorite guitarists are able to play very fast or even have a reputation for frequently doing so, yet they also play slowly or generally have an eclectic style. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QO_Q4l8ynA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QO_Q4l8ynA (Steve Vai, playing slowly) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8eouDOsUOM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8eouDOsUOM (Eric Johnson, who normally doesn't play ultra-fast - yet this song is one of the most difficult ones to play because of the speed) ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 19:21
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Since I am a drummer and a restaurant owner let me use a culinary metaphor: The bass drum is like the salt in a meal. Use too much, and it becomes too salty. Some people like it that way; for those we have salt shakers on the tables. But I assure you I am definitely not pleased when they do; I regard it as an insult to the cook. i prefer my meals less salty, and I prefer my music without double bass drum. Jean has used the right word for this "fastest and loudest" attitude: Puerile. It is like some kind of puberty rite. At the beginning of the novel "Katz und Maus" by Günther Grass there is a scene in which young boys engage in a w**king contest to see who can ejaculate the farthest. That's what double bass drum reminds me of. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 04:18
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^ If that's not the greatest insult you could possibly make to the musicians, then I don't know what is. BTW: The flaw in your analogy is of course that double bass drumming is not like the salt in a dish. Change it to pepper or chili, and it suddenly makes much more sense. Some people will not eat hot meals at all ... as soon as they taste the chili, they complain about it being too hot. Other might drink Tabasco sauce with delight ... and if you go to India their food is on an entirely different level compared to our Tabasco sauce. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 05:36
It is meant as an insult, Mike, since they insult my ears. Little boys exercising puberty rites. As to liking a great bandwith of music: I certainly do; I listen to Gamelan music, classic Indian music, African music, Chinese music - I definitely am not narrow-minded. I even found the odd Prog Metal I like. But as a drummer I find it extremely tasteless to use double bass drum; you will never convince me of it. It is nothing but a gimmick. Gimmicks are ok if they are used with scarcity, which means once or twice over the years. A Micky Mouse voice is a gimmick too. But just as one would not want to listen to a Micky Mouse voice all the time, I detest the permanent use of double bass drumming. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 06:38
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Friede. Mike - as valuable as your opinions are, please keep the discussion civilized. 'Little boys' read this forum as well. There's always the choice of not having your ears insulted by simply pressing the stop button. Thanks. ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 06:45
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@Angelo: Yes you're right, it makes no sense to continue the discussion on that level ... it's off topic anyway. @BaldFriede: I'm not trying to convince you of double bass drumming or any other technique you don't like. I'm merely irritated by your hateful and insulting attitude towards the musicians and their fans. Please remember that they're not responsible for what happened to you. And FYI: I don't think that open-mindedness is defined by how many different styles we enjoy ... it's defined by how we deal with the styles we don't like. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 07:12
I am not hateful towards the musicians, I just can't take them seriously if they repeat a gimmick over and over again. And I am definitely not hateful towards their fans. I may wonder about their taste, but I am pretty sure people wonder about mine too. But I agree: The discussion is fruitless, so I will refrain from it. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 07:21
Steve Vai playing slow? Not only can he play at blistering pace, I think Vai, Satch and Buckethead, to name just a few show just how their range of technique can let them play with just as much emotion slow as they fast. This is where having so much technique can come into play. Say we have David Gilmour, great player, well known for writing memorable melodic solos you can sing, soulful, and understandably, a hero to many. But what happens if he wants to express something more complex with the guitar? He wont be able too. Not only can Satch, Vai, Buckethead (again, to name a few), play slow, controlled and with soul, they can play fast, controlled and with soul. The emotions that come from a passionate fast flurry of notes, has a totally different feeling/emotion or set of emotions/feelings, than playing slowly does. Sometimes, though hard to believe from some, but I'm sure MikeEnRegalia will understand what I'm talking about, it's the fastest note flurries in a song that can be what brings me to tears and takes me somewhere else beautiful. It took me a while to get to this stage, but once you start becoming a shred guitarist yourself, you open up your ears to the sheer beauty and passion of playing fast. -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 07:54
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^ quite true. A good example of what you're describing is Joe Satriani's Satch Boogie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzQb79IhoRE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzQb79IhoRE What I mean is the fast tapping middle section. To some it may just be a flurry mess, but in fact there's a simple underlying melody (played by the tapping finger) which gives meaning to the part. The key is to be able to play the whole section with the focus on that melody, with the additional notes as an "embellishment", sort of like a combination of pedal tone and arpeggio. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 08:33
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Another thing I cannot stress the importance of enough when you listen to a shredding part, stop trying to over analyse each individual note ( I admit i still do that, but i generally do that after i have listened to something before and say, want to analyse the song or learn how to play it, but normally I just listen for the joy of music). Vai, Satch and others, when they play, I doubt they consciously think about every note in a fast run. Instead, I'm sure they see the fast run holistically, as a complete phrase, which is exactly what I hear and that is because that is what makes sense to the ear. If it didn't communicate something to me, if it really was just a meaningless blur of notes, I wouldn't enjoy it, because music is about expression. And when it come to expression on the guitar, I personally think the hard work and hours the true virtuosos have put in has paid off, their reward being able to express the deepest and most meaningful feelings, and really, as many emotions/feelings as they want to. -------------
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 08:57
When double bass drum kits came available a lot of impressive rock and jazz drummers bought and used them: Moon, Baker, Hiseman, Mitchell - not a gimmick rather fulfilling a need at that time? ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 09:07
which is how most people view your posts. With your consummate skill on drums and piano and your taste-defining appreciation of music one wonders why you haven't taken the musical world by storm. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 09:26
Another shredder often overlooked, that i forgot to mention that fortunately MikeEnRegalia picked up on, is Eric Johnson. One of the most memorable moments for me from the G3: Live in Concert DVD from Eric Johnson's setlist, was not even his fast and furious moments, but an often forgotten trademark of his style that he displayed in SRV: his uncanny ability to hit exactly the right frequency of pinched harmonic that he desires. But of course other components of his style that are unforgettable, like his string skipping licks, and his crazy wide intervallic ideas, and always done in good taste too, IMO. The Austin City Limits version of Cliffs of Dover is brilliant, and some say it even surpasses the studio version ( I have not heard the studio version in about 2 months, so I wont make a judgement on that for the time being.) A tone to die for, excellent sense of phrasing, and a great vibrato. -------------
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Posted By: Utah Man
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 12:22
WHOA...I forgot to add Jean Baptiste "Django" Reinhardt ! ! ! And remember, his left hand was deformed & still played remarkably ! ! ! From WikiPedia: Many musicians have expressed admiration for Reinhardt, including: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_McCulloch - Jimmy McCulloch , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Bream - Julian Bream ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chet_Atkins - Chet Atkins , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Santana - Carlos Santana ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.B._King - B.B. King ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Garcia - Jerry Garcia ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Iommi - Tony Iommi ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix - Jimi Hendrix ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Lane - Shawn Lane ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevie_Ray_Vaughan - Stevie Ray Vaughan ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Trucks - Derek Trucks ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Knopfler - Mark Knopfler ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Paul - Les Paul ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Pass - Joe Pass ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Frampton - Peter Frampton ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Laine - Denny Laine ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Beck - Jeff Beck ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Larsen - Jon Larsen ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Howe_%28guitarist%29 - Steve Howe ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Christian - Charlie Christian ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Benson - George Benson ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Montgomery - Wes Montgomery ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Taylor - Martin Taylor ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tchavolo_Schmitt - Tchavolo Schmitt ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochelo_Rosenberg - Stochelo Rosenberg ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir%C3%A9li_Lagr%C3%A8ne - Biréli Lagrène ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jorgenson - John Jorgenson ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Angelo_Batio - Michael Angelo Batio ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Thompson_%28musician%29 - Richard Thompson ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fripp - Robert Fripp ; and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Martin_%28Canadian_musician%29 - Jeff Martin . . . |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 12:24
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I think John Petrucci can piss pretty damned high
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 14:08
By the way, which guitarist can piss the highest? It's probably been mentioned already, but Steve Morse is one of the best when it comes to technique and speed. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 14:09
My wife turned me on to Tuck and Patti, not strictly prog but still quite good. Santana's Europa gets my vote as one of the most beautiful prog songs of all time. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 17:24
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Mattias IA Eklundh is a worthy mention IMO. Incredibly versatile, fantastic tapping technique and other worldly phrasing are just some things to mention about him. Also notable is his strange technique he uses to produce harmonics, leading some people to falsely believe the sound is in fact produced with a Digitech Whammy. As well as his solo stuff, check out the band Freak Kitchen for Eklundh's rather alien playing style -------------
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Posted By: Reverie
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 19:39
ding ding ding
There are heaps of guys who make me think "how the #&$% could i pull that off?", but that's mainly because i'm not a very technically accomplished guitarist
 Holdsworth on the other hand just completely boggles my mind when i watch him play. It's not just "how would i play something like that?", it's "how can anybody play something like that?"
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 02:38
Mattias Eklundh demonstrating his technique(s): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq0xvSJojw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq0xvSJojw (hilarious to watch, not only for guitarists!) ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 03:45
^ Nice video, hilarious too! Always loved his signature 'Apple Horn' Carparision guitar, although being Australia i doubt I'll ever get to try one out I first heard of him in a Guitar Techniques magazine issue from June 2005, which he featured in a column by Jamie Humphries, although the track itself featured EKlundh playing on it. I put the accompanying CD with the magazine on, gave it a whirl on his track, and I read the magazine later, and my jaw dropped when I read the part about Eklundh using nothing but his guitar and amp Plus his absolutely unique phrasing impressed me as well. Mind you, in despite the transcription for his track right there in front of me, that was only 3 months after I began on my quest to play virtuoso guitar (and at the time I only had a 21 fret Samick Strat copy with Single coils in all 3 positions ), but was severely put off from trying it, as well as the fact he uses the 26th fret for a tapping lick. Now that I've been playing a bit longer, I would have the chops to handle a lot of the stuff in there (minus the 26 fret parts, and the insane harmonic/floyd rose antics). It was refreshing to get back in EKlundh after all this time, thanks for the video link MikeEnRegalia-------------
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 05:05
Also check out his contribution to the heavy metal- Indo-jazz fusion on Jonas Hellborg's latest Art Metal. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 05:09
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Actually, MikeEnRegalia linked me to their myspace page yesterday. I quite enjoyed what I heard -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 11:29
hahahhahahhahahhaha... sorry... but ... hahahhahhaha. damn.. .that is what they call in some campaigns.. .the straight-talk express  in lieu of a medal... have 5 clappies.. a masterpiece of progarchives put-downs ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 14:45
Well with Allan you certainly get your Hold's worth. heh heh heh.... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: activetopics
Date Posted: February 06 2008 at 09:27
SLASH ALL THE WAY, MAN! ( )
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 06 2008 at 09:45
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 06 2008 at 09:49
I went back through the post pages and found this one, the only one that really mentions Buckethead, whom IMHO, is an absolute genius, and one of my favourite muscians ever.
An odd choice? certainly not, Buckethead has many fans, perhaps not a huge fan base, but nonetheless, unlike many bands/artists who have many people come and go as fans, buckethead is one of those guys that consistently (and very prolifically mind you), puts out work that is fantastic IMO. One of todays great virtuosos, whom I feel is somewhat underrated too IMHO. -------------
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Posted By: Ancient
Date Posted: February 06 2008 at 12:45
| A favourite of mine is Gordon Giltrap. Technically brilliant AND he makes nice music! |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 07 2008 at 05:06
I plugged his name into Youtube.....WOW, I really enjoyed what I heard -------------
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 07 2008 at 06:45
Listen to his new album Secret Valentine, where Giltrap plays the innovative Rob Armstrong plastic-bodied guitar. The acoustic quality puts the lie to prevailing view that plastic guitars are no good. Then check out out the Cool Acoustics site here at Loughborough University, for more details about how this guitar was developed. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |