The next U.S. President (for non-US members only)
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Topic: The next U.S. President (for non-US members only)
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Subject: The next U.S. President (for non-US members only)
Date Posted: January 12 2008 at 17:37
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G.W. probably doesn't care, but considering about 99% of this country consists of people with ties to some other nation, I'm curious who the people of those countries think should be our next U.S. president. It would also be nice to know why you chose the candidate you voted for. Edited January 22nd to remove Biden, Dodd, Tancredo and Thompson who have all now officially dropped out. Kucinich dropped out January 23rd. Giuliani announced he's dropping out and endorsing McCain January 29th. Edwards announced January 30th he is dropping out but will not immediately endorse another candidate. Mitt Romney announced February 7th that he is suspending his bid for the Republican nomination. Mike Huckabee dropped out March 4th. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Replies:
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: January 12 2008 at 17:51
Not living in the USA (my sister lives there in NJ, married with a yanqui  ) and seen things from the Southern Cross perspective, I'll go with Obama... I feel something fresh in the air that will be good for the USA and also to the Western World.
Change or die, well, let's change, no?  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 12 2008 at 18:07
It's the Democrats' turn. 
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 10:56
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It's good to see what seems to be a variety of credible candidates. It looks like the next president will command far more respect, whoever it is.
I'd be interested to hear how much our US memebrs feel this is a vote for the person, and how much the candidate's political allegiance and policies matter.
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 12:25
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Not voting because I live in the States, but hasn't Chris Dodd dropped out? ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: Hirgwath
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 12:31
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Yes: Dodd, Biden, and Tancredo are already out. Not that anyone cares. In the interest of full disclosure, I did not vote in this poll, but will be voting in the general election (I turn 18 in September). ------------- Skwisgaar Skwigelf: taller than a tree. Toki Wartooth: not a bumblebee. |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 16:34
You're right. I left Biden and Dodd on the list because they haven't officially endorsed anyone (that I'm aware of), and they are still accepting campaign funds. I missed the Tancredo annoncement but you're right on that one too IMHO -- who cares  .------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Hirgwath wrote:Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 16:58
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It's between Clinton and Obama for Democrat and Huckabee and Giuliani for Republican. Ron Paul might be the only person with an outside chance. But other than that, you're right, who cares? Now that Fred Thompson is off Law & Order he's a done deal anyways! ------------- Beauty will save the world.
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Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 17:15
For me the leading candidates' stated policies don't matter all that much in today's environment. Our past three presidents have done very little to follow up on most of their campaign promises anyway, and those who ran and lost and ended up in the Senate have been largely silent as well so I think you can't give much credence to specific proposals or promises. Much of what a president accomplishes ends up being about how well they can work with Congress anyway. I think this election is about making a definitive statement on what direction we want for our country. More of the same most likely means a continuing erosion of the middle class, an increased polarization of the country's citizenship between those who are progressive and socially-conscious, and those whose primary focus is on continuing to promote capitalism and strengthening our 'moral authority'. IMHO I think we should also consider our global standing, which has eroded more in the past seven years than at any time in our history (and which is why I asked the question in the first place). Electing someone who will continue to act unilaterally in world affairs and show open disdain for the opinions and priorities of other nations will only further damage the reputation of all Americans world-wide. On the upside states like mine that rely on tourism for much of their revenue will benefit since Americans will continue to forego foreign vacation travel for domestic since we will become even greater targets outside our own borders. So there's that at least.... ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 17:21
yes, well that's always the real underlying question.. in this election, because I believe Iraq has seriously damaged the Republicans, many will vote more with general policy in mind ..in other words, "get us the hell out of there and start a healing process that will only bring better spirits and a stimulated economy" as for which Dem should be President, I'm sure Hillary believes she deserves it  |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 18:53
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They all suck, but I doubt they're realy gonna F*ck up anything. ------------- 
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 19:12
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Other Christian Vander. Seriously, I have no idea who all those people are or what they can bring to the political table. My vote goes to whoever is furthers left. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 20:40
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Vander isn't a US citizen, so he isn't eligible. JOHN ZORN 2008! -------------   |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 20:45
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sew troo sew troo. Man, if John Zorn was the president, it would be like "I am imposing a new law. It goes like this....one, two, three, four, O*Q@W#NDQXY8qiuhqioUI190-898198918WIOUHOJ2OIN2POJKJKKJ*(@*&@#&*^!@#(!((((!)!)!_W_WWS XXXXX" |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 20:46
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Dude, I would totally vote for the Zorn/Frith ticket. Their motto would be like "We'll make every city Naked City."
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 20:53
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I think we are slowly veering this thread towards Just For Fun. |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: January 13 2008 at 23:20
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Before voting, check this out: http://www.dehp.net/candidate/ - http://www.dehp.net/candidate/ Not 100% accurate but is much more informative than voting based off of TV snippets. I matched closest to Kucinch and Gravel (both have little chance to put it lightly), with the other dems all similar and behind. The only republican that I didn't get a negative score with was Ron Paul, go figure. Giuiliani still makes me cringe, he uses the words "terrorism" and "9/11" more than dizty, stereotypical girls use the word "like." ------------- 
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Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 09:49
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Obama and John Edwards are good options ,but the next president is Hillary Clinton....a Democrat.Whe Clinton was President the USA economy was better.
If Giuliani wins ..perhaps he will continue the politics of Bush
------------- Hi progmaniacs of all the world |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 10:12
Considerin the fact that it was a bubble economy in its early stages, it was definetely better than the mature bubble economy of today. Clinton created the bubble economy, great achievement
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 04:40
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For some reasons I don't see Hillarious getting in >>she crying/upset session after the Iowa caucus must've displeased more than a few, including me. Most likely she'll get in as Democrat candidate and has a fair chance at getting it, though
I don't believe Obama will conquer the democratic seat and if he does, I believe the Reps will win it for a third mandate ina row.... (too many whites not willing to vote for a black candidate)
So I think this Edwards guy will most likely make it either as prez or vice-prez
on the Rep side, I'm not that familiar with the candidate's names, but I just hope the friggin' pastor/priest gets crushed very quickly (in New Hampshire hopefully) ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 08:00
I think you might have been right about whites not willing to vote for a black man a few years ago, and there are still many, many Archie Bunker types left in this country. But even my uber-conservative Anabaptist parents (who live in the South) have said that they would consider voting for a moderate or even the Democratic candidate (which could end up being Obama) after the beating this country has taken the past seven years. So in that sense Bush may have inadvertently done more for racial equality during his term than any president in the past 30 years  .The "friggin' pastor/priest" is Mike Huckabee, and following his victory in the Iowa caucases he finished a distant third-place in both the New Hampshire and Michigan primaries. In the past couple of weeks he has made comments about sending Iranians "to the gates of Hell" and "helping them" see their seven virgins in the after-life, plus had a pep talk with supporters after Iowa where he told them they were "God's army" and were girding themselves to "do the Lord's work". I'm sure that in context these comments weren't quite as inflammatory as they sound, but that's the kind of stuff that'll get you put on the shelf in a campaign real fast, even in the South. I'd say his 15 minutes of fame will be over in about another 3-4 minutes. On the Hillary note, I'm really watching this race with interest to see how it develops, but her emo stunt in New Hampshire is kind of like that old "are you still beating your wife?" question: if she was really actually crying in that interview then one has to be concerned about the resolve and steadfastness of someone who would bawl in public also being in charge of the world's largest military and thousands of nuclear warheads. And if she was faking it then one has to consider what lengths she would go to for the nomination, and whether she can actually be trusted at face-value on anything else. She was bordering on the same act last night during the Michigan debates on TV, so it looks like that's her new strategy until/if it backfires. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 09:02
I'm not voting in the poll as I can vote in the elections. I went to the web site. No big surprise republicans got all negative ratings except for Paul with a rating of 1. Oddly enough Clinton came in third after Kucinich and Gravel. Edwards came in fourth despite only 5 disagreements with him vs. 6 with Hillary. I'm personally pulling for Edwards while he is still in the race. I think he has the best chance with the general electorate, I also like the fact that he didn't come from a privileged background, plus he's not afraid of saying he will stand with the people over the corporations when that needs to happen. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 14:52
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I have no idea what Obama´s political ideas are... some info please. ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 19:45
The same as the other democrats. They really all have the same message, they're just competing to see who can say the word "change" more times per hour. Obama is winning in this category. ------------- |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 20:14
I second this nomination. Start petitioning. NOW. ------------- |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 21:02
That questionnaire thing was pretty cool, but it basically showed the candidates in the exact order that I supported them. No joke, that thing was spot on. Since I'm going to be turning 18 before the deadline  I can't vote in this poll, but I must say, I do love my Kucinich.
-------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 21:54
| Kucinich and Paul are the two best choices of a line up of bad choices. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 21:56
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RON PAUL FTW
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Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: January 16 2008 at 23:23
But seriously, that guy seems like the only non-puppet on either side. I really like him, but it's obvious he's not gonna get enough votes.
I'm sure if ole' Washington, Jefferson and Franklin were around today they'd vote for Ron Paul, but then first they would have die of a heart attack pretty quick at the way their "New Atlantis" turned out.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 08:47
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Obama (first choice) or Hilary-- I feel either would represent a huge leap forward.
As long as it's not a Republican, and especially not another moronic born-again Christian, who views the Flintstones as history, and acts with the conviction that "Gawd is on our side."
 Interesting race this time out -- things can only get better, Oval Office-wise!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 08:55
Unfortunate turn of phrase as far as UK citizens are concerned, professor - when Tony B Liar was voted in in 1997 the song 'things can only get better' was played over and over at the victory party & on the radio for days. How little we knew... Back on thread, I like most people here, would like to see Obama voted in for his avowed intent to genuinely improve US society, but who knows, eh? As uncle Frank said: "Republican is fine if you're a multi millionaire, Democrats is fair if all you own is what you wear, But neither of them's really right, 'Cos neither of them care..." 
I wonder if he were still alive if he would have tried... ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 09:44
| I'd like to ask all the Obama supporters what you like about him - and avoid using the words "hope" and "change". |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 10:55
"'Bout that hot plate heaven, 'cause they ain't been there." Love that song. Off topic but the Dr. Koop song is my favorite on Broadway the Hard way. "...it's the work of the devil so girls don't blow. Don't blow Jimmy, don't blow Bobby, git yourself another hobby..." ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 11:03
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Well, I`ve gave up on politics a long time ago in my basketcase country but I voted for Hillary here just because if I`ve got to look at a person just about every day in the media well, she looks better than all the rest of the other monkeys.
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 16:30
You realize the republican party is also doing that, right? -------------
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 18:44
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The republican side is the same, except that there is at least one single candidate (RON PAUL) who actually has an OPINION on any given issue, while everyone else simply gets their views verbatim from their party.
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 19:25
Well, it makes sense to join a political party in which you share mostly similar views, so it's common to notice relatively few differences for that reason. It's mostly just the frontrunners, Clinton and Obama, who don't exactly give their stance on certain issues. Look at Edwards or Kucinich and tell me they don't have opinions. By the way, I don't really consider myself apart of any party, but if America wasn't so bipartisan, I'd probably vote for either the Green or Socialist party. -------------
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 20:15
Sorry, fellows, but here in Brazil we only know Obama, HC and Giuliani... the others are only names, at least until now. 
When we talk about hope & change it's perhaps a projection of our own desire in relation to our countries (I mean Latin America). We are always hoping that things may change here and even when they change we want more and more...
I think that the support Obama gets outside the USA is more or less when you watch a football game(American or Association, nevermind) and neither teams playing have your preference which means that you're neutral; then, it's common to sympathise with the weaker or more different side (well, IMHO).
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 09:00
Sad thing is there's a way too large segment of the electorate here that votes for someone based on superficial criteria like that.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 11:49
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Well, I won't vote in this poll either than.
In 2008 I might just write in Dennis Kucinich
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Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 12:03
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im american so im not voting in this poll but i agree completely with riley dog on this one. Obama? nice guy, great speaker, no real great ideas. his platform is change but he doesnt say how, when what or why. most of his ideas are partisan rhetoric. he also has very little experience. he is 36? or something and has only been a senator for one term. Hillary Clinton is the worst thing that could possibly happen to this country and if she is elected, i will move to Canada. that is not an idle threat. It would be interesting to see if Ron Paul gets elected but he is much to extreme for the country to ever get that far. But so far he is the only one with any sort of plan or good idea.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 16:04
Okay, while I can see why one wouldn't like Hillary, how can you possibly think she's worse than Bush, Cheney, and other Neo-Cons? I'd be pretty upset if Hillary was the democratic candidate, but virtually any democratic candidate is better than what Washington has now. -------------
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 16:10
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Yea, EVERYONE hates Hillary...its just the thing to do.
And I may not like her but I would vote her over ALOT of people.
Im thinking over: Huckabee, Romney, any Neo-cons really
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Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 16:51
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im not saying i like bush but i AM saying Hillary would be worse. she just oozes this sleazeyness that makes me cringe. her politics? borderline socialist. her personality? borderline . . . disgusting. Im not jumping on any sort of band wagon of hillary haters but everything about that woman is so wrong. im just worried that people will vote for her simply because she is a woman and comletely ignore anything she says. not that what she says isnt worth ignoring in the first place. BTW, what do people see in her? not people who would vote for her not to vote for someone else, people who would vote for her because they like her. . . what do you see? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 07:57
I would encourage any of my fellow countrymen who think Hillary is the epitome of evil to leave as soon as she wins the election. We'll be better off without you. I'm still rooting for Edwards and Kucinich is the best but ain't gonna happen (on a side note, hey how about his hot wife? He shoots, he scores!!! )------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 09:16
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I really hope to be in the USA when the next elections are held, though of course I won't be able to vote. That said, even if I am a woman, I am rooting for Obama - not because I think Hillary is such a monster, but because it's high time the US had a black president, and someone who doesn't have the advantages Hillary has. As to Hillary's 'socialist' ideas, I suppose they have to do with her support of universal healthcare. Well, as a European, who has heard and read many horror stories about what can happen to American citizens who are not insured, I firmly believe healthcare is one of the inalienable human rights (same as education), and treating it like just any other commodity is, in my opinion, a crime against mankind. If that makes me a 'socialist', so be it - I'd rather see myself as a humanist, though I've never hidden my leftist leanings. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 09:43
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very well said darling... it is a human right... getting healthcare is not..well .. SHOULD not be a measure of your social-economic status.. but a basic human right. Part of the problem with the world today is there are people around that would disagree with that. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 15:24
An interesting bit of trivia I learned recently (I'm working on an MBA in Healthcare Management and this came up in one of our classes). There are only two countries in the world with no form of universal health coverage: South Africa and the U.S.
You would think a nation with our resources could at least ensure nobody lacks for basic health care, regardless of their ability to pay for it, but such is not the case.
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 15:37
It remembers me a movie I saw a couple of years ago, a funny movie btw, with Alan Alda, the late John Candy, etc. where with the end of the Cold War they were searching for a new enemy to bring profits to the weapons industry and they decide to invade Canada. One of the reasons given for the declaration of war was that Canada had a "social healthcare".
 EDIT: "Canadian Bacon" was the movie... directed by Michael Moore. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 17:27
| Other - I have no idea. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 20:34
I don't think it's a human right to have other people care for you. It's certainly the thing that should happen, because how can you deny someone the right to health care in their time of need and expect yourself to get the same care whenever you need it? It's just what should be done, and when you have so many people paying taxes for war, why not just replace that "defense" tax with health care tax. It's make our country a whole f**king lot better. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 22:20
You should read up on the history of Costa Rica. That's exactly what they did nearly 50 years ago. Their government passed a constitutional amendment basically banning expenditures on a military and allocated the money to public healthcare and education instead. Wonder what would happen if one of the really big defense-spending countries did something like that?
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 23:33
What's wrong with Socialism? Most people who associate socialism with something bad actually don't understand what it is. I personally find it a much more appealing ideology than capitalism. The United States isn't exactly 100% capitalist too, by the way; that is another common assumption. The closest America got to true capitalism was around the time during and before the Great Depression.  -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 20 2008 at 09:18
Don't hear a lot of complaining about the socialized fire departments or the socialized police forces. Capitalism works best when tempered by some socialism. Some things work best when there's competition and a profit motive, other things need to be handled collectively for the common good. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 10:34
Costa Rica, Japan, western europe, etc, all have miniscule (or non-existant) defense budgets to compare with us. We have provided them with security since the end of WWII. That's why they can pay for their socialist games although at a risk of going bankrupt
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 10:36
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 11:26
Socialist games? I hope you realise what you are saying. As a European citizen, I find such a statement extremely offensive. And, in the present circumstances, talking of us going bankrupt sounds a bit like the kettle calling the saucepan black. I know that Italy was helped a lot by the US after the war, but we paid very dearly for that. I don't want to go into detail, but I was born at the end of 1960, and I know what I am talking about. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 11:41
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 15:05
Not completely accurate. Costa Rica has a defense force, and I'm not aware of too many times when we've had to deploy forces to protect their borders. I'm not sure who would want to invade them anyway. For the most part our military expenses are incurred as a result of us "promoting" democracy and capitalism to (usually) unwilling recipients.
And to the question of whether "socialist games" can incur the risk of bankruptcy on the part of those nations, I would point out on the flip side that the U.S. has by far the largest federal debt of any country in the world; is currently at risk of losing their AAA bond rating; has a dollar that has fallen against the Euro and is even lower than the Canadian dollar for the first time in nearly a quarter-century; and is being rapidly consumed as foreign nationals are buying up American property, companies and bonds at an all-time high rate. We have incurred more debt as a nation in the past 7 years than the previous 225 combined.
So who's risking bankruptcy?
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 18:12
I surely realize what I'm saying. Socialism is expensive. In 2006, Which means 99% of its GDP is used productively. Yet That's the price of socialism. Having long sold their gold reserves and other assets, We waste a humongous sum of money on defense. You can imagine how better off we would have been by keeping the $535B; but that allows your government to spend 99% on your social programs as we pay for the defense of |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 18:14
Taking into account that I spend 3-5 hours a week watching TV (mostly History Ch and PBS) that's particularly funny. I would suggest you to do the same. Watchin major networks produces the same effect as an outright brain castration. |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 18:37
Of course, we are promoting capitalism. International policies of any country are an extension of its economic policies. First and foremost, we protect our interests. I realize that anything imperialist is politically incorrect, but I don't even try to be politically correct. Western Europe is our main trading partner. Sure thing we will protect them.
You're right, we have a huge debt. It's around 70% of our GDP and that's obscene. The war is ruining the country. I'm afraid if it goes on for 2-3 more years, the inflation will wipe out half of today's middle class.
On a positive note, foregn nationals buying American assets is not that bad.
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Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 18:48
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Let's please draw a distinction between Socialism and Social Democracy. And INVORD, who exactly were the US protecting Europe from? I find the idea that the Soviet Union really wanted to invade Western Europe far-fetched. Stalin was an oppurtunist, and the Soviet Union just as badly damaged by World War II as the rest of Europe. Most of the massively inflated US military budget went on securing hegemony in former European colonies. As for the poll question, my favourite candidates (or should I say non-candidates) for the US presidency are Gravel and Kucinich. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 19:04
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We have a say here that states: "they are Greek then they must understand each other".
Even so, I had to hide a couple of posts in order not to spoil a thread that has running in a civil manner until now... although some posts here should fit better in the Political Discussion thread, located next door.
Let's keep the poll on its proper rails, folks!
Thanks!
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 19:24
Maybe this will help: ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 22 2008 at 19:39
Hey, as long as you stay away from Faux Noise. I'm kind of partial to History Channel ("Where history comes to die") and PBS myself. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 09:11
It's hard to assert they had definite plans of aggression in the late 70's either. On the one hand, they had tremendous superiority in conventional forces. On the other hand, they had Europe gradually hooked on cheap energy since the early 60's and ripped huge benefits from the trade. But no matter how you slice it, the potential of aggression was there. If you imply that some sort of peaceful co-existence existed, it may be as far-fetched an idea as the imminent red threat.
The US military has been used to secure hegemony over the entire world not only former colonies as the economy became more and more globalized. US economic interests dictate what the military do, not the other way around. Economy is the driving force.
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 09:17
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Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 11:52
As our admin monitors have pointed out we've veered off-topic it seems, but I will say that I hope that you are (or have in the past) served in uniform in defense of these policies you are so passionately defending. Your conviction will carry more weight if your actions are consistent with them.
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 23 2008 at 12:38
Dang! I though for sure my Mod (erate) Squad post would help set things right.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 08:10
So far I haven't been defending anything. Just stating the facts. And with very little passion, if any at all. As for my convictions, I am convinced that both you and I are recipients of the benefits provided by capitalism. The only difference is I openly admit to that, and you implicitly deny it. And i see no connection between my observations and my military record. It's like saying that one must be an astronomer because he watches the sun rising in the east every morning.
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 08:35
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I like Ron Paul. His views are a bit more libertarian than mine perhaps, but I think it would be a step in the right direction. Our gov'ts so big it's tripping over itself. OH and as far as the whole capitalism vs socialism thing goes, I am anti-"anything-that-is-an-ideal." I do think ideals work out too well in the economy. It's more something you have to play by ear. It's just too complex to think that one can come up with a plan and just have it work. I am more of an individualist I suppose, but I'm an individualist who realizes there are other individuals in the world :) . |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 24 2008 at 09:28
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 25 2008 at 07:31
 ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 06:38
 ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 10:14
That's not very far from the truth. All the top democratic and republican candidates have similar stances on most issues, so people vote on extraneous factors such as personality, appearance, bullsh*t spewed factor, negative advertisements, what other people are doing, etc. Don't think that race or gender is as big a deal as people can make it to be, but some will certainly be swayed because of it. I'd like to see Obama win and run with Edwards for VP (since after coming in 3rd in South Carolina, he has no chance). A shame the candidates that are actually somewhat visionary get forgotten about in favor of the ones who have more money and better speakers(/BSers). -------------
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Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 14:48
Let's at least get the facts right then. Western Europe is in fact a minor trade partner with the U.S. In fact, Canada and Mexico are our largest trade partners. 46% of our export trade and more than half of our import business is with Canada, Mexico, Japan and China. The UK accounts for only about 4% of exports and Germany about the same in imports - all of the other European countries have less trade than that with us. Korea and the Middle East also pale in comparison to our own continent and the Far East in trade, yet the heaviest concentration of our military might, expenditures and international policy attention have been on these areas for years. And I don't deny that many Americans are beneficiaries of a capitalist economy. But to put things in perspective even the U.S. government acknowledges that nearly all economic gain in this country over the past 30+ years has almost exclusively benefitted the top 20% of households. The purchasing power of the remaining 80% of the country has actually decreased in that same period, , and as of 2007 we are approaching a trade deficit of one trillion dollars despite more than 2.5 million jobs being shipped overseas in this decade alone. And the international policies of a country are not always an extension of their economic policies. They are often an extension of ideological policies, which in the case of the U.S. just happens to be largely the same thing. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 16:06
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I don't know what to do. I want to vote for the candidate who's least likely to want to reinstate the draft, and to not continue down this path. I think I want Obama, but everyone's an asshole.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 16:43
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You know who's least likely to instate the draft? RON PAUL.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 16:48
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I've been told he doesn't know sh*t about the economy. But overall, he's my favorite candidate.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 18:36
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1 vote for McCain, Romney, Huckabee, and Guliani combined...god I love this place!
I wish you guys could come over and vote in November ------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 18:44
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I would like McCain if it weren't for the fact that I don't wanna get drafted.
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Posted By: EnglishAssassin
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 18:52
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What makes it rather difficult for foreigners like myself to decide who we'd rather have in the White House is that, foreign policy beyond Iraq not being a vote-grabbing issue in the US, it's something of a mystery just where Hillary, Barak, and the rest in fact stand on international issues. Has any one of them, for instance, committed themselves to actually reducing the US's carbon emissions, and promised to sign treaties to that effect? If anyone would care to enlighten me, they'd be most welcome... |
Posted By: IVNORD
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:38
Country Exports Imports Balance
Canada 229,087.9 288,666.1 -59,578.2
Mexico 126,309.4 194,056.4 -67,747.0
China 58,340.1 295,817.6 -237,477.5
Japan 57,407.6 133,613.4 -76,205.8
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html#2007 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c2010.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c2010.html#2007 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2007 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5880.html - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5880.html http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0012.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0012.html#2007 The world 1,062,111.0 1,783,151.0 -721,040.0
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0004.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0004.html#2007 The combined Europe IS our major trading partner.
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5800.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5800.html#2007 Nothing to sneeze at. Of course, it hasn't been always like that in terms of trade, but from the Korean War and on it was containment of communism. S Korea has close economic ties to Japan, etc.
Country Exports Imports Balance
Saudi Arabia 8,995.3 31,518.6 -22,523.3
UAE 10,280.4 1,172.0 9,108.4 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5170.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5170.html#2007 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5050.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5050.html#2007 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5130.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5130.html#2007 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5200.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5200.html#2007 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5081.html#2007 - http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5081.html#2007 You know what we buy from the Arab countries and why it's important to us. And Israel is a counterbalance.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 04:17
Hopefully I will already be in the US by November, but unfortunately I won't be able to vote for a long time... Who knows, perhaps in 2012 I will ! |
Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 06:12
I would say you've heard wrong. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 07:55
Here's a political cartoon you might like:  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 07:57
Say, have you memorized all that stuff us US Americans should know but don't, so you can pass your citizenship test? By the way if you're one of those stinkin' liberal feringners trying to sneak your way into this country and corrupt it, you've got my support 100%.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 09:00
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I really don't envy Americans for their possible president canditates.
I read something about all major canditates, and I found in all something that is a big turn off for me.
Perhaps a Clinton vs. Giuliani, and Huckabee as vice president candidate would be the worst combination.
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Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 10:31
 it'll be too late by then, I'll be drafted...but as Slart said, good luck studying all that stuff that few Americans even know, the revolution begins in 2012------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 10:32
------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 19:37
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Nobody wants to take a strong stance either way on the environment, because if you go way pro-environment you lose critical corporate $$$ for your campaign, but if you go pro-business you alienate the young vote.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 06:48
Yes, but few young people bother to vote, and that may be the crux of the problem, particularly when you add in folks who do vote but don't vote for their best interests but instead get suckered into voting for hot button cultural issues. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 10:26
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funnnneeeeyyyyy!! ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 03:37
Hoppin' the pond eh? Well good luck, the naturalization process is a bitch and a half. I have a friend from India who has lived with his parents here since he was 6 (14 years ago) but they still haven't been able to get in. If you don't know a guy who knows a guy then you stay enqueued whilst others are grandfathered in. No wonder the illegal immigrant problem is so horrible, the process is not a process because it does not complete in a finite amount of time! Grr  |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 07:19
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And now there are four. Be afraid, be very afraid.
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Posted By: allan Duul II
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 07:27
| They are all the same, capitalist scum f**ks the lot of them. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 07:40
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I don't care who will rule some foreign country, in a same way I would like that foreign country to mind their own business within their borders. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Of course, that's idealistic and unreal, but that's how it should be, more or less. We all know the impact of U.S. on the rest of the world, for good or for bad - that just shows how the situation is distorted - and far from ideal. ------------- |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 08:23
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Better watch what you say Croatia and Wales. Is that WMD I smell you cooking up there? And damn sure better not have any oil. I spoke a little too soon about and then there were four. Apparently some Republicans aren't so easy to quit as the debate last night was a four way. I'm really disappointed in the Democrats. I think Edwards would have beaten any Republican nominee in a landslide, should have hung in a little longer. For any of you furreners around the around the world that might be interested, these are my predictions for matchups of the top four from a US American (anyone know where I can find some maps?): McCain vs. Hillary, too close to call. McCain vs. Obama, McCain (too many in this country who vote [and by that I mean those who haven't been disenfranchised] who won't vote for a black guy) Romney vs. Hillary, Hillary (too many religious fanatics that don't trust Mormons, but then again they probably wouldn't vote for Hillary either) Romney vs. Obama, too close to call. Stay tuned for updates, when it come to opinions, I am full of it. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 12:07
Hoppin' the pond eh? Well good luck, the naturalization process is a bitch and a half. I have a friend from India who has lived with his parents here since he was 6 (14 years ago) but they still haven't been able to get in. If you don't know a guy who knows a guy then you stay enqueued whilst others are grandfathered in. No wonder the illegal immigrant problem is so horrible, the process is not a process because it does not complete in a finite amount of time! Grr [/QUOTE] I am applying for a K-1, or fiancé visa, since I can't wait to marry another certain forum member whom you may have come across ... They usually take about 6 months (may be more, may be less), and then of course there is a lot of fun to be had with the whole Adjustment of Status process. All I have to say is, I wish your authorities were so honest as to say that US citizens are not allowed to marry foreigners. The whole process involves serious invasions of a person's privacy, even when one has NOTHING to hide as in my case, and is clearly not engaging in a Green Card scam (no Western Europeans are, especially people like me who have property and a job in their home countries).That said, unfortunately for us, we can't afford not to care about who is elected president of the US. The Italian territory is FULL of US military bases and such, since we are part of the NATO - not to mention that nowadays the world has become way too small for every country not to be in some measure influenced by what happens somewhere else. |