Rush "Snakes & Arrows" (in retrospect)
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43912
Printed Date: March 06 2025 at 16:07
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rush "Snakes & Arrows" (in retrospect)
Posted By: Yorkie X
Subject: Rush "Snakes & Arrows" (in retrospect)
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 09:19
So many people got in early to review and rate this CD, I suspect in retrospect some people may have changed their minds on the strength (or lack of strength) of this CD and changed their minds on their original rating, so I thought I'd put it to a poll and see where it stands. Personally I'm hoping for better things next Rush CD but please don't think I'm ungrateful as Snakes & Arrows does have a few good moments. 
|
Replies:
Posted By: zbida
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 09:41
| 4 stars considering their recent releases, 3 stars considering their whole stuff. |
Posted By: Casartelli
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 09:58
|
4 stars: their best since Counterparts.
The album got a lot of exposure during the concerts... perhaps a tad too much. I was a bit disappointed in the performance of The Main Monkey Business, but on the other hand, the concert also helped some songs that hadn't really caught my attention up to there.
|
Posted By: puma
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 10:30
| It's a really good album regardless of what came before it |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 10:47
| I'd up my rating to 4 stars. It's grown on me a whole lot more. Seeing Rush do some songs live helped. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 10:59
| Definitely four stars, probably closer to 4.5. I'll make that clear in my upcoming review. As others have said before, hearing the songs performed life pushed all their strengths to the fore - even though I took to the album right after the first listen. Possibly one of their best albums ever, in my very humble opinion. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 11:06
I agree. However I feel that three songs: Bravest Face,Good News First and We Hold On are weak compared with the rest of the album. I rated it 4 stars when I reviewed it but I'd put it closer to 4 1/2 stars now because there are 9 very,very good songs on the album. Technically and compositionally it's far more advanced than most of the prog-by-numbers stuff that people on this site rave about and many of whom sniff at Rush's Prog pedigree. |
Ghost Rider wrote:Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 11:58
|
I still haven't reviewed it yet... However! It's one of my favorite Rush albums ever, and that's saying a lot! Armour and sword, Spindrift, Bravest Face, Far Cry, We Hold On, Main Money Buisness, all great rock songs (IMO). I say four stars simply because it's not progressive, but plain hard rock. As a rock album i'd say it deserves more than that, especially compared to some of the laters stuff that other bands put out. |
Posted By: Lonely Progger
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 12:14
|
4 stars the songs are original and Geddy's bassplay and his bass sound as really matured and and sounds much better in a more proggy context ------------- Lost in the south of france: " Le rock progressif ? C'est quoi cette connerie? " |
Posted By: Snipergoat
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 12:31
| 4 Stars, amazing album. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 12:39
| 4 stars. Every Rush fan should pick up a copy of this, it's well worth it. Easily rivals Counterparts and is definitely their best work in many years. |
Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 12:45
| Torn between 3 and 4. It was a solid album. |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 12:46
|
This is still in my top 5 favorite Rush albums. I feel this is the most soulful release ever by the band. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 13:12
|
I still think it's a four star record.For me it gets average about 3/4 through,then finishes strongly. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 13:12
|
Following the ratings system at this site: More objectively I'd probably give it three stars, but subjectively two stars maybe (it's not bad, but not one I'd recommend to people other than people who like Rush, really). I wouldn't consider the album an excellent addition to any Prog collection; certainly there are quite a number of Rush albums that I would recommend before this one, and consider Hemispheres to be the masterpiece. At best, sort of, I consider this to be a fine addition to a collection of someone who already likes Rush (for a hardcore Rush fan, every album of theirs is essential). There are just a great many other albums that I would sooner recommend to prog fans from the various categories. Even if one just compared to all the other great (subjectively speaking) albums in heavy Prog, I wouldn't rank it that high. Good album, but not excellent, and not amongst my favourite albums of 2007. As for the Prog quotient, my favourite album of 2007 is Robert Wyatt's Comicopera, and some people may not consider that very Prog (not sure how I'd rate it, but less than five because Rock Bottom is Wyatt's masterpece as far as I'm concerned and the album I'd be most likely to say that every Prog fanatic should have in his/her collection). Not only does the rating depend on how much someone likes an album, it also depends on one's rating methodology. If one considers this to be one of Rush's best albums, and Rush to be one of the best Prog bands, then a four would be very reasonable. Personally, I'd rather save the five star rating for the album by a band/artist that I think superb and would recommend to someone as a masterpiece of any given category, and four stars for the other albums by a band that I still consider essential. Course we all have different tastes and not everyone may like an album, but there are those albums that I feel everyone should hear, and those that a great many should hear, even as a footnote in progressive history -- especially when wishing to explore a category, and not just a band, based on my experience, the new Rush was not one that I NEEDED to hear, though I would recommend it to someone who loves Rush as something of a return to form). For me Hemispheres is Rush's masterpiece (the five star album), and this album is not as good as Farewell to Kings and Moving Pictures which I'd rate with four stars. Just think that four and above should be reserved for the best albums of a category, and this is not even amongst Rush's best for me. Recommended for Rush fans, but not for people getting into Rush or those looking for the great hard Prog rock albums. But I won't vote since I haven't heard this in quite a while, and just once all the way through at that, and therefore my opinion is moot. So ignore my babbling, iteration and reiteration, I'm just using the keyboard for finger exercises. I wonder if my opinion will have changed as I didn't like it before. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 13:14
Interesting thread, also because I opened a very well visited thread about this album last year, Rush is very popular on Prog Archives and if you want replies, just open a thread about Rush 
But seriously, I ended my review about Snakes & Arrows with this sentence:
"From an objective point of view this album deserves four stars, personally I go for 3,5 stars.""
And I still support my words for 100% because I have so much respect for this awesome and creative trio, lots of clappies for Snakes & Arrows but my personal rating is bit lower than my objective rating, 4 stars, fully deserved!
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 13:30
That is interesting, Erik, so rather like I felt (subjectively I thought two stars, but more objectively I thought higher -- three stars in my case). I didn't think it was a special enough album for it be an "excellent addition to any Prog collection" (for a Rush collector, sure). Not to my collection, certainly. Those rating descriptions really should be altered, imo (although I do respect the attempt to make reviewers more objective). EDIT: Somewhat apparently contrary to points in my last post, I do also think that every album should be judged on its merits (though it makes sense to factor in other bands and albums for rating comparison sake). I wonder if some people are giving Snakes and Arrows a high rating (and four is a high rating) simply because it's better than the former album/ albums. In other words, it's better (or much better) than stuff like Vapour Trails, so the high rating is something of a response to that album, as some might see it. As seasoned proggers: If this album was one's first experience with Rush, do you think that one would rate it the same? I speak as a practically non-reviewer/ rater here so I'm interested to get veterans opinions, but don't want to take this thread off track since there are other threads for such discussion, and this really should be about the Rush album. The fact that it has so many 4 star ratings obviously means that people do consider it very good. EDIT 2: When I have time I'll come up with a proper proposal for helping to improve the site, I wonder if the site could usefully have a multi-faceted rating system for albums that involves giving points to categories each with its own criterion for evaluation. For instance: artistic creativity, technicality, innovativeness, how it compares to other albums by the band, how it compares to albums by other bands in the category which it is placed, and how it compares to the whole of Prog, or something like that (off the top of my head). I think this is also relevant to the discussion here on how one is rating this Rush album. of course these will be dependent upon how much the reviewer knows of the band, the category, and progressive music generally... Problematic but that would have to be clearly stated (perhaps it could be alluded to in the reviews). |
Posted By: mission4prog
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 14:51
agree completely. in fact, i think i said something like this in a previous post.
anyway, always good to have NEW RUSH, no matter what.
took me almost six years to come to like VT, so, i guess i need more time before i can comment "in retrospect."
m4p ------------- "The hypocrites are slandering the sacred halls of Truth." |
Posted By: Atrophy Annie
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 14:56
|
I, too, would rate a solid 4 stars. My issue is similar to Logan's:
Everytime I get a new Rush CD, or see them live, I always wonder what newcomers to their music think, and wonder if "this one" will hook a Rush fan for life, such as myself. I became a Rush fan for life because of Signals, then moved backwards to the really great stuff, then forward through the strong (Hold Your Fire, Presto), the successively weaker (Roll the Bones, Counterparts), and back on the upswing.
Anyhoo, I think this CD has a better chance of catching a young fan's ear, and interesting them to learn more of this band, than anything since Presto.
As a drummer, I find Neil's work and sound in SnA to be at least as exciting and interesting as anything he's done; not as bombastic and full as days past, but very nuanced, crisp, and, and intelligent. And the new DW drums sound fantastic.
|
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 15:16
|
WARNING!!!! Fan boy alert. I am not sure what the point of Logan's discussion was. By my point of view Rush equals Prog. Therefore, anything they do is a 5-star masterpiece of prog because what they are doing defines what prog is. All other albums should be compared to Rush's sound and therefore the less it sounds like Rush the lesser the rating it should have.
Seriously though, I feel that Snakes and Arrows is an excellent addition to any prog fan's collection and is deserving of 4 stars. I certainly agree that this is a must have if the person in question is a Rush fan. If the person in question however is a Fantomas fan or a Magma fan than Snakes and Arrows is probably not a recommendable album to that person. Unfortunately that is one of the limitations of this site and the rating system. Rather than adding a rambling unnecessary paragraph, reference the Stuck in the Seventies thread. The range of prog is way more diverse today than it was in the 70's and prog fan's individual tastes reach to the 4 corners of the music universe (spacially that is probably 16 corners or something but that is for the math rock fans to discuss further). At any rate one person's masterpiece is another person's rubbish. With a subject as diverse as prog that is not surprising. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 15:37
| Re: number of stars. I understand Logan's perspective; however, this is why a single number (current S+A averages 3.66) is by itself meaningless - one must read the reviews for a more complete picture. It's why good reviews are essential for this site and why many here stress the need for reviews for obscure or underreviewed albums. I won't buy something because 10 people slapped the number "4" on it....I need some context as to why it's an excellent addition to my prog collection. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 15:49
|
I still say it's the best thing they've done in 20+ years. 4 stars! E ------------- 
|
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 16:03
|
To be more precise E-Dub, it's the best thing they have done in 21 years
! |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 16:51
|
Best albums since Moving Pictures for me and my album of the year and deserving of 5 stars. |
Posted By: rushaholic
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 19:08
|
Loved the album and seeing the band play it live was absolutely wonderful. For me, 4+. |
Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 19:29
|
I seen Rush live in Kansas City and the material from Snakes and Arrows was amazing. To me this is their best album since Moving Pictures. 4 stars ------------- Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights... |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 20:05
Hey, I was at that show!! Got to meet Alex and Geddy backstage as well. I thought the Snakes & Arrows stuff sounded awesome live. Loved how they came out for the second set and just played 3 new tunes right off the bat. E -------------
|
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 20:34
|
A solid 4, nothing less. I'd definitely put it in Rush's top 8 albums- it's the best since Power Windows (but then again, I am kind of a Vapor Trails fanboy too...). The whole album is very consistent, something that was a little lacking in the late-80s through the 90s. In a way this feels like a whole new era for the band. They may be really old, but S&A really feels like the band has a renewed energy and excitement for it all.
Vapor Trails was a great comeback and Feedback/30th Anniversiary tour was kind of the "yeah, let's play the hits" and there the band could have stagnanted, but they didn't. They repeatedly said Feedback kind of refocused them or whatever and now they're still going strong. I guess it was a longwinded way of saying it, but Rush is still definitely going strong and S&A proves they are still relevant and aren't resting on their back catalogue. I mean, they played nine new selections from S&A on their tour! They've never done that before. That's putting a lot of faith in the new material, and it seems to be paying off. 
And I'm jealous that E got to meet Geddy and Alex backstage. Way cool! 
|
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 20:40
|
2.5
Boring IMO ------------- 
|
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 20:41
|
Wait...I'm seeing something here that just had me step back. How does it rate as an CD not using the system. I mean The Who's "Who's Next" gets a 4.37? That is a Prog rating? I feel a disconnect. If S&A was treated in the same vein, does it garner a higher rating because it is not so much Prog? Anyone know what I'm getting at? Some people rate it lower because of it lacking Progness.
-------------
|
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: November 29 2007 at 20:50
Geddy was very shy; but, Alex just greets you with the biggest smile and his kindness simply radiates. I e-mailed the gentleman who set it up for us asking if Alex was really that nice, and his response was a emphatic 'yes'. E -------------
|
Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: November 30 2007 at 12:52
| 3 and 1/2. Good, but not GREAT. I was expecting less, so it was a nice surprise! |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 02 2007 at 10:04
|
Thanks for putting up this poll - it made me finally complete and submit http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=153607 - my review of this excellent 4 star album...
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Casartelli
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 11:10
Quite curious which water divide took place in 1986...
Motivating my statement "best since Counterparts" a bit more: I think the first half of S&A is as fresh, lively and good as a Rush album in 2007 can be (which apparently is: almost brilliant). However, the second half tends to drag a bit and that's where the record loses it of its 1993 example, which was just a bit more constantly focused. Taking out that surprise gem, S&A would be the best since Power Windows, or, the best in 22 years.
|
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 11:38
| I'd say four stars. I liked it when I first heard it and my opinion on it is roughly the same as then. I don't believe that it is their best, which for me is Hemispheres, but I can honestly say its my favourite Rush album since Permanent Waves. I like the organic feel it has and though I do miss the epics, I like this new direction and although I like every period of Rush, I think this is the best style they've found since the 70's. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 11:42
|
I'd say I was still at a 4 star, myself. I think the album is pretty strong throughout, really. Will it usurp 'A Farewell To Kings' or 'Moving Pictures' as my all time favourite? Of course not, but I'd agree that it's their strongest for some time- since 'Counterparts' I'd say. Surely, 'Far Cry', 'The Main Monkey Business', 'The Way The Wind Blows' and 'Spindrift' in particular are destined to be future classics, IMHO. Interested about the tour though; I can't comment fully as I did not attend the gigs but I have to confess I felt the set was a bit top-heavy in terms of pushing the new material. Did the album stand up compared to the older classics in that context? |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 03:06
| It's a bit early for a retrospective, isn't it? |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 03:44
|
Posted By: steve j
Date Posted: December 06 2007 at 13:59
|
Mmm. I must admit I am a pretty big Rush fan. I have seen them on every tour since Moving Pictures. I have all their albums, but this album is kind of difficult to place. Rush were great on tour and the S&A stuff was executed superbly. The musicianship is just amazing.
I do however have a problem with both the last two albums they just don't work for me sonically, I don't know whether its my age (mid forties), or their style, the songs seem very ordinary, it may be that there is not enough "prog" in them, no subtle interludes, its just driving rock from beginning to end, that may be it.
If I was to offer an uninitiated person a Rush album to listen to, I don't think I would offer them S&A. It would be towards the bottom of my list.
Its only 2 stars for me. Don't get me wrong, if I knew Rush were playing tomorrow and just playing S&A tracks I would still go, they seem to work much better live than on cd.
A strange report, but that's how I feel about it.
|
Posted By: Tylosand Ektorp
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 03:31
|
Their best since Signals. I think that this is one of the most emotional Rush albums in decades. Perhaps it has something to do with circumstances in my own life, perhaps not. However this album made me reconnect with Rush, a band I'd loved in the 70s and early 80s but one I'd lost track of in the ensuing years. ------------- Those who know history are doomed to talk about it. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 17:32
| Torn between a three and a four. Can't even give a proper reason for it. A solid album, certainly, but I think some of the songs could have been more (or better) developed. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 17:35
|
3 stars. Not amazing, but better than their recent output
------------- 
|
Posted By: Woodbridge
Date Posted: December 23 2007 at 00:36
|
Great album! Several well-written songs, and per usual, top-notch instrumentation from the boys.
However, it does seem a bit long and a couple songs are "samey" to me. Maybe if one were to trim two or three songs off the album, it'd be a more effective package and hit the listener harder.
Still a great release though, best in a long time.. 4 stars.
|