Server Error in Forum Application
An error has occurred while writing to the database.
Please contact the Forum Administrator.

Support Error Code:- err_SQLServer_getSessionData()_save_new_session_data
File Name:- functions_session_data.asp
Forum Version:- 11.01

Error details:-
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server
Violation of PRIMARY KEY constraint 'PK__tblSession__30CE2BBB'. Cannot insert duplicate key in object 'dbo.tblSession'. The duplicate key value is (8116898zeaz6f473d9a8fe5b84ade8015393519).

General Polls - Incredibly long reply poll...
Print Page | Close Window

Incredibly long reply poll...

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Topics not related to music
Forum Name: General Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics not related to music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41670
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 19:14
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Incredibly long reply poll...
Posted By: cuncuna
Subject: Incredibly long reply poll...
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 00:35
I'm truly sorry, but sometimes people writte a script about it and it's just too much for me... I mean no disrespect, but I just can't read so much about so little...

-------------
¡Beware of the Bee!
   



Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 00:38
I know what you mean, but this is prog country... we're wordy people LOL




Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 00:38
I always believed discussion forums were created for discussion, so, I read everything from start to end, believe it or not, I learn more from the people that disagree with me than with the ones who agree.
 
Also I believe it's a sign of respect for someone to answer him/her in the best possible way.
 
Iván


-------------
            


Posted By: progcabaretdoll
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 01:01
I'll read it.
 
I'll be totally honoured to be responsed like that.


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 01:03
I'll admit it, I tend to skip the "essays" some people seem to put down.  There are only a few people (Ivan being one of them) whose longer responses maintain my attention.  

-------------



Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 07:23
If you're reading through a thread, it's because you probably care about the subject; if somebody's taken the time to write a long response, I think it's a mark of respect that you should at least read it.

-------------

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 07:31
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

I'll admit it, I tend to skip the "essays" some people seem to put down.  There are only a few people (Ivan being one of them) whose longer responses maintain my attention.  
I read every last word, if someone’s gone to all that trouble to write such a repost then the least I can do is take the time to read it. I admire people who can write succinct and diminutive answers to posts, I wish I had that ability, I really do, but I don’t, believe me I’ve tried, but every time I would read back the four lonely words I had written and wonder if I someone would misunderstand their meaning, so I have to add another four words to clarify the previous four. Now I have eight words that possible add more confusion than I originally intended, so I need another eight to further explain those. And while I was writing those sixteen words another salient point popped into my head that I really just had to write down and share with you all and before I know it those words have spilt from the keyboard onto the screen. Yet as I read those words that I have just typed I realise that the two points probably weren’t that well connected in the first place so I have to write a bridging sentence to link them together. By now I’ve reached the point where I’m pretty sure that the person whose post I am replying to has given up reading due to the lamentable ten-second attention span that is so predominate in this modern world and I am readily confident that I can slip in a well place insult of that persons intelligence without fear of retribution because I know the poor muppet will never read it. This I can do with confidence because I have been getting away with on various forums for the past ten years without the need for flame-proof underwear and will probably continue to do so. Of course, the final step in producing the reply is to read it back and remove anything that is Yes are overrated rubbish possible contentious that I may have accidentally typed in a fit of piqué while being distracted by a passing crow. The final final stage is to append a suitably inappropriate smiley at the end of the post to ensure that should anyone bother to real every last word of my post they will see that it was written in good humour because, after all, emoticons are so darn cute... Hug


-------------
What?


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 07:33
Iván is the king of the long answers.. xD. Not because his replies are that long, but he uses colourful letters and short replies for every paragraph and that makes to the reader to keep his attention while reading.

As Rileydog, I consider Iván one of the few persons who I use to read his replies from the beggining to the end.


-------------
The best you can is good enough...


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 07:42
Iván posts are great, Thumbs%20Up if sometimes just a little over the top Stern%20Smile, however once gets onto his second or third colour I get a little confused Confused about who said what about what to whom. Thumbs%20Down

-------------
What?


Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 08:48
Yes.


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 09:11

I think I sometimes exceed on a reply's natural and succinct way, just like I'm blamed and bantered with my review style. I always try to give a best answer, yet always end up making a long form of that bestly tried answer. LOL

In rest, I think this thread is about Ivan. LOLHug


-------------


Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 09:36
Always, of course, though I would be dishonest if I said that I always read EVERY long response, not just those that concern me directly.

Anyway, I also admit that some response styles make it considerably harder for me to read. It's not so much a matter of length as of presentation: no paragraphs, for instance, or the dreaded quote pyramids - not to mention the use of too many different colours. I think it's essential to be able to understand who said who, and that way it's not always the case.


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 12:14
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

I read every last word, if someone’s gone to all that trouble to write such a repost then the least I can do is take the time to read it. I admire people who can write succinct and diminutive answers to posts, I wish I had that ability, I really do, but I don’t, believe me I’ve tried, but every time I would read back the four lonely words I had written and wonder if I someone would misunderstand their meaning, so I have to add another four words to clarify the previous four. Now I have eight words that possible add more confusion than I originally intended, so I need another eight to further explain those. And while I was writing those sixteen words another salient point popped into my head that I really just had to write down and share with you all and before I know it those words have spilt from the keyboard onto the screen. Yet as I read those words that I have just typed I realise that the two points probably weren’t that well connected in the first place so I have to write a bridging sentence to link them together. By now I’ve reached the point where I’m pretty sure that the person whose post I am replying to has given up reading due to the lamentable ten-second attention span that is so predominate in this modern world and I am readily confident that I can slip in a well place insult of that persons intelligence without fear of retribution because I know the poor muppet will never read it. This I can do with confidence because I have been getting away with on various forums for the past ten years without the need for flame-proof underwear and will probably continue to do so. Of course, the final step in producing the reply is to read it back and remove anything that is Yes are overrated rubbish possible contentious that I may have accidentally typed in a fit of piqué while being distracted by a passing crow. The final final stage is to append a suitably inappropriate smiley at the end of the post to ensure that should anyone bother to real every last word of my post they will see that it was written in good humour because, after all, emoticons are so darn cute... Hug


Overall:

Highlighted sections: plus one great big

-------------

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: bluetailfly
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 12:34
I don't think I've ever suffered from this problem...if someone wants to take the time to respond back to whatever I've dared to post, I am grateful!

-------------
"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 13:59
I really appreciate it when someone takes the time to respond in a more thorough and thoughtful manner.  I'd rather that than curt ones.

I'm interested in the exploration of ideas and how people think.  One problem can be that when someone does respond in a more expansive manner, I feel obligated to respond in kind, but don't always have sufficient time (and by the time I can the discussion has moved on).

There are multiple approaches to take when responding/ many different ways to see things. I know that I'm sometimes guilty of trying to approach it from too many angles. and with too many digressions.

As long as a person is making some attempt to be considerate with his or her response, I don't mind the length.  If someone is responding at great length  to assert dominance, then I don't like it.  If it shows genuine interest in what the other person is saying, and wants to explore that in discussion (and is not an ego trip) then wonderful.  I don't like "superior sounding"/ patronizing posts no matter what length (I know I come across that way sometimes).


-------------
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:00
I'm very interested in reading long replies...being a long-replier myself...(something that, you'll notice here, i'm trying to change)..Tongue


Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:05
I spend a lot of time editing my brobdingnadian-sized posts down to their tl;dr forms. No-one ever notices because I never press "post reply" until I'm sure my response is intelligence-insulting but not downright embarrassing. =)

-------------
FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 14:08
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I really appreciate it when someone takes the time to respond in a more thorough and thoughtful manner.  I'd rather that than curt ones.

I'm interested in the exploration of ideas and how people think.  One problem can be that when someone does respond in a more expansive manner, I feel obligated to respond in kind, but don't always have sufficient time (and by the time I can the discussion has moved on).

There are multiple approaches to take when responding/ many different ways to see things. I know that I'm sometimes guilty of trying to approach it from too many angles. and with too many digressions.

As long as a person is making some attempt to be considerate with his or her response, I don't mind the length.  If someone is responding at great length  to assert dominance, then I don't like it.  If it shows genuine interest in what the other person is saying, and wants to explore that in discussion (and is not an ego trip) then wonderful.  I don't like "superior sounding"/ patronizing posts no matter what length (I know I come across that way sometimes).
I always enjoy your long posts, they are always informative and well informed, the only problem I have with them is that you've never posted anything I've disagreed with Stern%20Smile


-------------
What?


Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 15:11
I was just thinking about the last time I wrotte a very long reply... I'm not sure, but I think it was like a year ago. As I said, I try to read those large replies, but when it becomes XXL, I feel tired just to look at the grey block.

-------------
¡Beware of the Bee!
   


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 16:53
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

I'll admit it, I tend to skip the "essays" some people seem to put down.  There are only a few people (Ivan being one of them) whose longer responses maintain my attention.  
I read every last word, if someone’s gone to all that trouble to write such a repost then the least I can do is take the time to read it. I admire people who can write succinct and diminutive answers to posts, I wish I had that ability, I really do, but I don’t, believe me I’ve tried, but every time I would read back the four lonely words I had written and wonder if I someone would misunderstand their meaning, so I have to add another four words to clarify the previous four. Now I have eight words that possible add more confusion than I originally intended, so I need another eight to further explain those. And while I was writing those sixteen words another salient point popped into my head that I really just had to write down and share with you all and before I know it those words have spilt from the keyboard onto the screen. Yet as I read those words that I have just typed I realise that the two points probably weren’t that well connected in the first place so I have to write a bridging sentence to link them together. By now I’ve reached the point where I’m pretty sure that the person whose post I am replying to has given up reading due to the lamentable ten-second attention span that is so predominate in this modern world and I am readily confident that I can slip in a well place insult of that persons intelligence without fear of retribution because I know the poor muppet will never read it. This I can do with confidence because I have been getting away with on various forums for the past ten years without the need for flame-proof underwear and will probably continue to do so. Of course, the final step in producing the reply is to read it back and remove anything that is Yes are overrated rubbish possible contentious that I may have accidentally typed in a fit of piqué while being distracted by a passing crow. The final final stage is to append a suitably inappropriate smiley at the end of the post to ensure that should anyone bother to real every last word of my post they will see that it was written in good humour because, after all, emoticons are so darn cute... Hug


I'm not gonna lie; I didn't read your response....


-------------



Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 16:57
LOL

-------------
The best you can is good enough...


Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 17:28
Assume that I wrote it ...Wink

-------------
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 17:32
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

I'll admit it, I tend to skip the "essays" some people seem to put down.  There are only a few people (Ivan being one of them) whose longer responses maintain my attention.  
I read every last word, if someone’s gone to all that trouble to write such a repost then the least I can do is take the time to read it. I admire people who can write succinct and diminutive answers to posts, I wish I had that ability, I really do, but I don’t, believe me I’ve tried, but every time I would read back the four lonely words I had written and wonder if I someone would misunderstand their meaning, so I have to add another four words to clarify the previous four. Now I have eight words that possible add more confusion than I originally intended, so I need another eight to further explain those. And while I was writing those sixteen words another salient point popped into my head that I really just had to write down and share with you all and before I know it those words have spilt from the keyboard onto the screen. Yet as I read those words that I have just typed I realise that the two points probably weren’t that well connected in the first place so I have to write a bridging sentence to link them together. By now I’ve reached the point where I’m pretty sure that the person whose post I am replying to has given up reading due to the lamentable ten-second attention span that is so predominate in this modern world and I am readily confident that I can slip in a well place insult of that persons intelligence without fear of retribution because I know the poor muppet will never read it. This I can do with confidence because I have been getting away with on various forums for the past ten years without the need for flame-proof underwear and will probably continue to do so. Of course, the final step in producing the reply is to read it back and remove anything that is Yes are overrated rubbish possible contentious that I may have accidentally typed in a fit of piqué while being distracted by a passing crow. The final final stage is to append a suitably inappropriate smiley at the end of the post to ensure that should anyone bother to real every last word of my post they will see that it was written in good humour because, after all, emoticons are so darn cute... Hug


I'm not gonna lie; I didn't read your response....
I never expec


-------------
What?


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 17:52
Sometimes you're in the mood for an essay, sometimes you aren't.
 
If one can say the same thing in fewer words, it is definitely better.
 
Myself, if it looks like it's a 200+ word reply, I read the first few sentences and if I find it's inconsequential, I'll skip it. But if it's a topic I'm really interested in, I'll probably read it all.


-------------
http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:02
I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, Genesis aren't that good, infact, Phil Collins' head is so shiny, I want to polish it with a chamois leather and stick a copy of We Can't Dance and Abacab on it, with a tube of epoxy. I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do.


-------------


Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:03
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Sometimes you're in the mood for an essay, sometimes you aren't.
 
If one can say the same thing in fewer words, it is definitely better.
 
Myself, if it looks like it's a 200+ word reply, I read the first few sentences and if I find it's inconsequential, I'll skip it. But if it's a topic I'm really interested in, I'll probably read it all.
 
 
I usually do the same thing. It also depends on the thread length, like if the thread has 10 pages for example, I just quick read half of it unless Im really interested.


-------------
RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!


Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:05
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, Genesis aren't that good, infact, Phil Collins head is so shiney, I want to polish it with a chamois leather and a bottle of aryldite. I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do.
 
 
Then we all know that. Thank you, James! LOLWink


-------------
RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!


Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:06
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I always believed discussion forums were created for discussion, so, I read everything from start to end, believe it or not, I learn more from the people that disagree with me than with the ones who agree.
 
Also I believe it's a sign of respect for someone to answer him/her in the best possible way.
 
Iván


and in blue....Wink


Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:08
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, Genesis aren't that good, infact, Phil Collins head is so shiney, I want to polish it with a chamois leather and a bottle of aryldite. I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do.
 
 
Then we all know that. Thank you, James! LOLWink


At least quote the updated version. LOL


-------------


Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:11
I read it all, especially if it's on a topic that I'm interested in. My friends always complain that I write too much whenever I post rants on Facebook. To be fair, man of my friends are ADD-addled morons. My close, smart buddies read the whole things, though.


Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:15
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, Genesis aren't that good, infact, Phil Collins' head is so shiny, I want to polish it with a chamois leather and stick a copy of We Can't Dance and Abacab on it, with a tube of epoxy. I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do.
 
 
Then we all know that. Thank you, James! LOLWink


At least quote the updated version. LOL
 
Better?LOL


-------------
RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:18
do you ever wonder if one day we'll ever get a "There is not enough space on the Internet, Click now to run Clean Up" message?

-------------
What?


Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 18:24
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, Genesis aren't that good, infact, Phil Collins' head is so shiny, I want to polish it with a chamois leather and stick a copy of We Can't Dance and Abacab on it, with a tube of epoxy. I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, Blowie is a loser ffor spotting that, I wonder if he'll spot this? I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do.
 
 
Then we all know that. Thank you, James! LOLWink


At least quote the updated version. LOL
 
Better?LOL


Yep! LOL

It was worth a try. Wink


-------------


Posted By: Kid-A
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 19:16

nm



-------------


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 21:34
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Iván posts are great, Thumbs%20Up if sometimes just a little over the top Stern%20Smile, however once gets onto his second or third colour I get a little confused Confused about who said what about what to whom. Thumbs%20Down
 
Thanks Darq for the nice words asd te rest.
 
I foun about a year or two ago that multicolor replies tend to be confusing, so if you check, since a long time ago I only quote the last reply of the original author and answer it in my blue © so every post has only two colors the original author normally in black and by blue. Wink
 
BTW: In always hated pyramyd posts, adter a couple of quotes over quotes I'm completely lost.
 
Iván


-------------
            


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 21:44
Stern%20SmileWell, I believe that while many approaches exist, during our study of Many-Body Perturbation Theory (MBPT) it will become evident that Rayleigh-Schrödinger Perturbation Theory (RSPT) is an excellent starting point. Chapter 9 of Ref. [ http://zopyros.ccqc.uga.edu/lec_top/pt/node30.html#levine - 2 ]\ contains an excellent introduction to RSPT.

Let tex2html_wrap_inline3831 be the Hamiltonian for the quantum mechanical system of interest. As always, we are interested in the eigenvalues and eigenfunctions which are solutions to the Schrödinger equation.
equation128
  Assume a similar system exists for which non-degenerate solutions (eigenvalues and eigenfunctions) are already known or easily obtained.
equation134
  Let the difference between tex2html_wrap_inline3831 and tex2html_wrap_inline3835 be denoted as tex2html_wrap_inline3837.
equation143
Introduce a physically motivated perturbation parameter tex2html_wrap_inline3839.
equation145

The Schrödinger equation for the system becomes
 equation147
Since tex2html_wrap_inline3831 depends on tex2html_wrap_inline3843, the eigenfunctions and eigenvalues of tex2html_wrap_inline3831 must also depend on tex2html_wrap_inline3843. Thus tex2html_wrap_inline3849 and tex2html_wrap_inline3851 can be expanded in a power series with respect to tex2html_wrap_inline3843.
eqnarray153
The following abbreviations were employed in the expansion.
eqnarray168
To obtain the energy tex2html_wrap_inline3855 or wavefunction tex2html_wrap_inline3857 of a system you merely sum the corrections. Obviously the convergence of these power series becomes a key issue since the summations must be truncated in practice.

Using these expansions of tex2html_wrap_inline3851 and tex2html_wrap_inline3849 in the Schrödinger equation (Eqn http://zopyros.ccqc.uga.edu/lec_top/pt/node5.html#eqnScheqn0 - 10 ) for the system of interest we have
 eqnarray184
Expanding this we obtain terms with various powers of tex2html_wrap_inline3843 on both the l.h.s. and r.h.s. If equality is to hold for all tex2html_wrap_inline3839, all terms on the l.h.s. of Eqn. http://zopyros.ccqc.uga.edu/lec_top/pt/node5.html#eqnexpSE - 15 must equal to those on the r.h.s. for a given power of lambda. This gives rise to the so called ``kth order Schrödinger equations.'' 
    

 
eqnarray206
 
And I'm sure my esteemed colleague Ivan will back me on that! Stern%20Smile


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 21:50
42.

-------------


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 21:51
In other words, and further to my original contention,
 
I love the great libraries and archives where I've been privileged to work, and I treasure the friendships I've made with the librarians and archivists who have been so immensely helpful. I've been extremely fortunate in my subjects, I feel. The reward of the work has always been the work itself, and more so the longer I've been at it. The days are never long enough, and I've kept the most interesting company imaginable with people long gone. Some I've come to know better than many I know in real life, since in real life we don't get to read other people's mail.

I have also been extremely fortunate in the tributes that have come my way. But this singular honor, the Jefferson Lecture, is for me a high point, and my gratitude could not be greater.

* * *

Among the darkest times in living memory was the early part of 1942 -- when Hitler's armies were nearly to Moscow; when German submarines were sinking our oil tankers off the coasts of Florida and New Jersey, within sight of the beaches, and there was not a thing we could do about it; when half our navy had been destroyed at Pearl Harbor. We had scarcely any air force. Army recruits were drilling with wooden rifles. And there was no guarantee whatever that the Nazi war machine could be stopped.

It was then, in 1942, that the classical scholar Edith Hamilton issued an expanded edition of her book, The Greek Way, in which, in the preface, she wrote the following:

I have felt while writing these new chapters a fresh realization of the refuge and strength the past can be to us in the troubled present.... Religion is the great stronghold for the untroubled vision of the eternal; but there are others too. We have many silent sanctuaries in which we can find breathing space to free ourselves from the personal, to rise above our harassed and perplexed minds and catch sight of values that are stable, which no selfish and timorous preoccupations can make waver, because they are the hard-won permanent possessions of humanity....

When the world is storm-driven and the bad that happens and the worse that threatens are so urgent as to shut out everything else from view, then we need to know all the strong fortresses of the spirit which men have built through the ages.

* * *

In the Rotunda of the Capitol hangs a large painting of forty-seven men in a room. The scene is as familiar, as hallowed a moment in our history as any we have.

John Trumbull's Declaration of Independence has been a main attraction on Capitol tours for a very long time, since 1826. It draws crowds continuously, as it should, every day -- about three to five million people a year. It's probably been seen by more Americans than any painting ever -- and the scene as portrayed never took place.

Trumbull said it was meant to represent July 4, 1776, and that's the popular understanding. But the Declaration of Independence was not signed on July 4. The signing began on August 2, and continued through the year as absent delegates returned to Philadelphia. No formal signing ceremony ever took place.

The scene comes closer to portraying June 28, when Thomas Jefferson submitted his first draft of the Declaration. But then, too, there was no such dramatic gathering.

The room is wrong, the doors are in the wrong place. The chairs are wrong. (They were Windsor chairs of the plainest kind.) There were no heavy draperies at the windows. The decorative display of military trophies and banners on the back wall, is purely Trumbull's way of dressing the set.

Yet none of this really matters. What does matter greatly -- particularly in our own dangerous, uncertain time -- is the symbolic power of the painting, and where Trumbull put the emphasis.

The scene proclaims that in Philadelphia in the year 1776 a momentous, high-minded statement of far-reaching consequence was committed to paper. It was not the decree of a king or a sultan or emperor or czar, or something enacted by a far-distant parliament. It was a declaration of political faith and brave intent freely arrived at by an American congress. And that was something entirely new under the sun.

And there Trumbull has assembled them, men like other men, each, importantly, a specific, identifiable individual.

The accuracy is in the faces. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin were painted from life. Before he was finished, Trumbull painted or sketched thirty-six of the faces from life. It took him years and he spared no expense, because he wanted it right. He wanted us to know who they were.

Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin stand front and center exactly as they did in the real drama of the Revolution.

A number who signed the Declaration are not shown. Several who did not sign are present.

Most conspicuous by his absence is George Washington who had departed Congress the year before to take command of the army.

* * *

Lord Bolingbroke, the eighteenth century political philosopher, said that "history is philosophy teaching by examples." Thucydides is reported to have said much the same thing two thousand years earlier.

Jefferson saw history as largely a chronicle of mistakes to be avoided.

Daniel Boorstin, the former Librarian of Congress, has wisely said that trying to plan for the future without a sense of the past is like trying to plant cut flowers.

One might also say that history is not about the past. If you think about it, no one ever lived in the past. Washington, Jefferson, John Adams, and their contemporaries didn't walk about saying, "Isn't this fascinating living in the past! Aren't we picturesque in our funny clothes!" They lived in the present. The difference is it was their present, not ours. They were caught up in the living moment exactly as we are, and with no more certainty of how things would turn out than we have.

Nor were they gods. Indeed, to see them as gods or god-like is to do disservice to their memories. Gods, after all, don't deserve a lot of credit because they can do whatever they wish.

Those we call the Founders were living men. None was perfect. Each had his human flaws and failings, his weaknesses. They made mistakes, let others down, let themselves down.

Washington could be foolhardy and ill-tempered. Adams could be vain, irritable, Jefferson evasive, at times duplicitous. And even in their day, many saw stunning hypocrisy in the cause of liberty being championed by slave masters.

They were imperfect mortals, human beings. Jefferson made the point in the very first line of the Declaration of Independence. "When in the course of human events..." The accent should be on the word human.

And of course their humanity is not evident only in their failings. It's there in Adams's heart-felt correspondence with his wife and children, in Jefferson's love of gardening, his fascination, as he said, in every blade of grass that grows.

Washington had a passionate love of architecture and interior design. Everything about his home at Mt. Vernon was done to his ideas and plans. Only a year before the war, he began an ambitious expansion of the house, doubling its size. How extremely important this was to him, the extent of his esthetic sense, few people ever realized. He cared about every detail -- wall paper, paint color, hardware, ceiling ornaments -- and hated to be away from the project even for a day.

The patriotism and courage of these all-important protagonists stand as perhaps the most conspicuous and enduring testaments to their humanity. When those who signed the Declaration of Independence pledged their "lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor," that was no mere verbiage. They were putting their lives on the line. They were declaring themselves traitors to the King. If caught they would be hanged.

Stephen Hopkins of Rhode Island, who suffered from palsy, is said to have remarked as he signed his name, "My hand trembles, but my heart does not."

Hopkins was a grand old figure who had seen a lot of life. You can't miss him in the Trumbull painting. He's at the back with his broad-brimmed Quaker hat on. In after-hours he loved to drink rum and expound on his favorite writers. "He read Greek, Roman, and British history, and was familiar with English poetry," John Adams wrote. "And the flow of his soul made his reading our own, and seemed to bring recollection in all we had ever read."

We must never forget either how hard they worked. Nothing came easy. Nothing. Just getting through a day in the eighteenth century meant difficulties, discomforts, and effort of a kind we seldom even think about.

But it is in their ideas about happiness, I believe, that we come close to the heart of their being, and to their large view of the possibilities in their Glorious Cause.

In general, happiness was understood to mean being at peace with the world in the biblical sense, under one's own "vine and fig tree." But what did they, the Founders, mean by the expression, "pursuit of happiness"?

It didn't mean long vacations or material possessions or ease. As much as anything it meant the life of the mind and spirit. It meant education and the love of learning, the freedom to think for oneself.

Jefferson defined happiness as "tranquility and occupation." For Jefferson, as we know, occupation meant mainly his intellectual pursuits.

Washington, though less inclined to speculate on such matters, considered education of surpassing value, in part because he had had so little. Once, when a friend came to say he hadn't money enough to send his son to college, Washington agreed to help -- providing a hundred pounds in all, a sizable sum then -- and with the hope, as he wrote, that the boy's education would "not only promote his own happiness, but the future welfare of others …." For Washington, happiness derived both from learning and employing the benefits of learning to further the welfare of others.

John Adams, in a letter to his son John Quincy when the boy was a student at the University of Leiden, stressed that he should carry a book with him wherever he went. And that while a knowledge of Greek and Latin were essential, he must never neglect the great works of literature in his own language, and particularly those of the English poets. It was his happiness that mattered, Adams told him. "You will never be alone with a poet in your pocket."

The Revolution was another of the darkest, most uncertain of times and the longest war in American history, until the Vietnam War. It lasted eight and a half years, and Adams, because of his unstinting service to his country, was separated from his family nearly all that time, much to his and their distress. In a letter from France he tried to explain to them the reason for such commitment.

I must study politics and war [he wrote] that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study paintings, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.

That was the upward climb envisioned for the good society in the burgeoning new American republic. And Adams was himself vivid proof of the transforming miracle of education. His father was a farmer, his mother almost certainly illiterate. But with the help of a scholarship, he was able to attend Harvard, where, as he said, he discovered books and "read forever."

His Harvard studies over, Adams began teaching school at Worcester, then virtually the frontier. One crystal night, twenty years before the Declaration of independence, he stood beneath a sky full of stars, "thrown into a kind of transport." He knew such wonders of the heavens to be the gifts of God, he wrote, but greatest of all was the gift of an inquiring mind.

But all the provisions that He has [made] for the gratification of our senses ... are much inferior to the provision, the wonderful provision, that He has made for the gratification of our nobler powers of intelligence and reason. He has given us reason to find out the truth, and the real design and true end of our existence.

He had decided to study law. "It will be hard work," he told a friend. "But the point is now determined, and I shall have the liberty to think for myself."

Of all the sustaining themes in our story as a nation, as clear as any has been the importance put on education, one generation after another, beginning with the first village academies in New England and the establishment of Harvard and the College of William and Mary. The place of education in the values of the first presidents is unmistakable.

Washington contributed generously, some $20,000 in stock to the founding of what would become Washington and Lee University in Virginia. His gift was the largest donation ever made to any educational institution in the nation until then, and has since grown to a substantial part of the endowment.

Jefferson founded the University of Virginia. But then it may be fairly said that Jefferson was a university unto himself.

The oldest written constitution still in use in the world today is the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, drafted by John Adams in 1778, just two years after the Declaration of Independence and fully a decade before our national Constitution. In many respects it is a rough draft of our national Constitution. But it also contains a paragraph on education that was without precedent. Though Adams worried that it would be rejected as too radical, it was passed unanimously. Listen, please, to what it says:

Wisdom and knowledge, as well as virtue, diffused generally among the body of the people being necessary for the preservation of their rights and liberties. [Which is to say that there must be wisdom, knowledge, and virtue or all aspirations for the good society will come to nothing.] And as these depend on spreading the opportunities and advantages of education in various parts of the country, and among the different orders of the people [that is, everyone], it shall be the duty [not something they might consider, but the duty] of legislatures and magistrates in all future periods of this commonwealth to cherish the interests and literature and the sciences, and all seminaries of them ... public schools, and grammar schools in the towns.

And he goes on to define what he means by education. It is literature and the sciences, yes, but much more: agriculture, the arts, commerce, trades, manufacturers, "and a natural history of the country." It shall be the duty, he continues,

to countenance and inculcate the principles of humanity and general benevolence, public and private charity, industry and frugality, honesty [we will teach honesty] ... sincerity, [and, please note] good humor, and all social affections, and generous sentiments among the people.

What a noble statement!

Years before, while still living under his father's roof, Adams had written in his diary, "I must judge for myself, but how can I judge, how can any man judge, unless his mind has been opened and enlarged by reading."

They were nearly all young men in 1776, it should be remembered, young men who believed, as Thomas Paine proclaimed, that the birth of a new world was at hand.

Jefferson was thirty-three, Adams, forty, Benjamin Rush, the Philadelphia physician, was all of thirty when he signed the Declaration of Independence. Rush, one of the most interesting of them all, was a leader in the anti-slavery movement, a leader in prescribing humane treatment for the insane, and the first to champion the elective system in higher education.

When George Washington took command of the army, he was forty-three. He had never led an army in battle before in his life, any more than the others had had prior experience as revolutionaries or nation builders.

And what of Franklin? Franklin, oldest and wisest, is for me a special case.

* * *

I met my first revisionist historian when I was six.

His name was Amos and he was a mouse, an eighteenth century church mouse to be exact, one of twenty-six children who with their mother and father lived in Old Christ Church in Philadelphia. I can never be in Old Christ Church without wondering if perhaps some of Amos's line are still there, back behind the paneling.

Amos, who took up lodging in Benjamin Franklin's fur hat, is the narrator of a little book called Ben and Me by Robert Lawson.

Most so-called historians have had Franklin all wrong, according to Amos. "Ben was undoubtedly a splendid fellow, a great man, a patriot and all that," he writes, "but he was undeniably stupid at times and had it not been for me -- well, here's the true story..."

I was six, as I say, and I was hooked. I learned all about Philadelphia, printing presses, electricity, Franklin stoves, and the Palace of Versailles. I got to know Benjamin Franklin and, like Amos, relished his company.

And that was the start. I learned to love history by way of books. There was The Matchlock Gun by Walter D. Edmonds, The Last of the Mohicans, with those haunting illustrations by the N. C. Wyeth, the Revolutionary War novel Drums by James Boyd, with still more Wyeth paintings.

That was in the day when children were put to bed when sick, and I remember lying there utterly, blissfully lost in those illustrations.

The first book I ever bought with my own money was a Modern Library edition of Richard Henry Dana's Two Years before the Mast. I was fifteen years old. In a book shop in Pittsburgh, I picked up the book from a table, opened to the start of chapter one, read the first sentence, and knew I had to have that book:

The fourteenth of August was the day fixed upon for the sailing of the brig Pilgrim, on her voyage from Boston, round Cape Horn, to the western coast of America.

Growing up in Pittsburgh, I had never seen the ocean or heard the cry of a sea gull or smelled salt air.

I read Kenneth Robert's Oliver Wiswell, Thornton Wilder's The Bridge of San Louis Rey, Frederick Lewis Allen's Only Yesterday, and A Night to Remember by Walter Lord. I thank my lucky stars for Robert Abercrombie, who taught history my senior year in high school and made Morison and Commager's The Growth of the American Republic required reading. In the college years, I must have read a half dozen novels on the Second World War, including Herman Wouk's The Caine Mutiny and Irwin Shaw's The Young Lions.

Bruce Catton's A Stillness at Appomattox, a graduation present, started me reading about the Civil War, and started me thinking that maybe some day I might try writing something of the kind.

I loved all those books, and they're all still in print, still being read, which is no mystery. They're superbly well done, wonderfully well written.

There should be no hesitation ever about giving anyone a book to enjoy, at any age. There should be no hesitation about teaching future teachers with books they will enjoy. No harm's done to history by making it something someone would want to read.

* * *

We are what we read more than we know. And it was true no less in that distant founding time. Working on the life of John Adams, I tried to read not only what he and others of his day wrote, but what they read. And to take up and read again works of literature of the kind we all remember from high school or college English classes was not only a different kind of research, but pure delight.

I read Swift, Pope, Defoe, Sterne, Fielding, and Samuel Johnson again after forty years, and Tobias Smollett and Don Quixote for the first time.

I then began to find lines from these writers turning up in the letters of my American subjects, turning up without attribution, because the lines were part them, part of who they were and how they thought and expressed themselves.

But we do the same, more often than we realize. Every time we "refuse to budge an inch," or speak of "green-eyed jealousy," or claim to be "tongue-tied," we're quoting Shakespeare? When we say "a little learning is a dangerous thing," or "to err is human," or observe sagely that "fools rush in where angels fear to tread," we're borrowing from Alexander Pope, just as when you "slept not a wink," or "smell a rat," or "turn over a new leaf," or declare "mum's the word," you're quoting Cervantes?

When young Nathan Hale was hanged by the British as a spy in New York in 1776, he famously said as his last words, "My only regret is that I have but one life to lose for my country." That's a line from the popular play of the eighteenth century, Cato by Joseph Addison, a play they all knew. Washington, who loved the theater, is believed to have seen it half a dozen times.

Imagine how it must have been for Nathan Hale, about to be hanged. Who, in such a moment, could possibly think of something eloquent to say. I think he was throwing that line right back at those British officers. After all, Cato was their play.

I imagine him delivering the line, "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country."

One needs to read the great political philosophers -- Hume, Locke, Ferguson, Montesquieu -- whose writings had such profound influence on the founders. Yet there is hardly a more appealing description of the Enlightenment outlook on life and learning than a single sentence in a popular novel of the day, A Sentimental Journey by Laurence Sterne.

What a large volume of adventures may be grasped within this little span of life by him who interests his heart in everything.

* * *

The stimulation, the motivation, the hard work and pleasures of writing history are mainly in the material. It's the finding and figuring out that keep you in pursuit. And you never know... you never know where you will find something, see something that's gone unnoticed, or make some unexpected connection that brings things into focus in a new or different way.

The truth of history is the objective always. But the truth isn't just the facts. You can have all the facts imaginable and miss the truth, just as you can have facts missing or some wrong, and reach the larger truth.

As the incomparable Francis Parkman wrote:

Faithfulness to the truth of history involves far more than a research, however patient and scrupulous, into special facts. Such facts may be detailed with the most minute exactness, and yet the narrative, taken as a whole, may be unmeaning or untrue. The narrator must seek to imbue himself with the life and spirit of the time. He must study events in their bearings near and remote; in the character, habits, and manners of those who took part in them. He must himself be, as it were, a sharer or spectator of the action he describes.

"I hear all the notes, but I hear no music," is the old -piano teacher's complaint. There has to be music. History at best has to be literature or it will go to dust.

The work of history -- writing history, teaching history -- calls for mind and heart. Empathy is essential. The late J. H. Plumb, the eminent British historian, said that what is needed is more "heart-wise" historians.

What happened? And why? Who were those people? What was it like to have been alive then, in their shoes, in their skins? Of what were they afraid? What didn't they know?

Studying his face in the mirror, John Adams decided, "I am but an ordinary man. The times alone have destined me to fame." He was fishing. He was anything but ordinary and it is not possible to understand what happened in that tumultuous, protean time without knowing and understanding him and the others.

There are, of course, great sweeping tides in history -- plague, famine, financial panic, the calamities of nature and war. Yet time and again, more often than not history turns on individual personality, or character.

I am presently at work on a book about the Revolution, with the focus on Washington and the army in the year 1776, which in the last months was the nadir of the fortunes of the United States of America, when the army was down to little more than three thousand men. By December, by all signs, the war was over and we had lost. Fortunately Washington did not see it that way. Had it not been for Washington and his little ragtag army, the Declaration of independence and all it promised would have truly been "a skiff made of paper."

There are no paintings or sketches of the soldiers done at the time. Most that we have are by Trumbull, himself a veteran of the war, but his were all painted afterward.

It's in the surviving diaries, journals, letters, pension files, in descriptions posted for deserters, that those in the ranks begin to emerge as flesh-and-blood individual men caught up in something far bigger than they knew.

There was Jabez Fitch, for example, a Connecticut farmer with eight children, who liked soldiering and kept a diary describing the war as he saw it day by day. There was young John Greenwood, a fifer boy, who at age sixteen walked all alone 150 miles from Maine to Boston to join up with Washington's army. And Mathias Smith, a deserter, who was described as: "a small smart fellow, a saddler by trade, grey headed, has a younger look in his face, is apt to say, 'I swear, I swear!' And between his words will spit smart; had on a green coat, and an old red great coat; he is a right gamester, although he wears something of a sober look."

"Greece," wrote Edith Hamilton, "never lost sight of the individual." And neither should we, ever.

They were hungry, starving some of them, and without warm clothes as winter set in. Not all were patriots. Not all were heroes. Not all came home. But they were once as alive as you and I.

"Posterity who are to reap the blessings," wrote Abigail Adams, "will scarcely be able to conceive the hardships and sufferings of their ancestors."

* * *

History is -- or should be -- a lesson in appreciation. History helps us keep a sense of proportion.

History teaches that there is no such thing as a self-made man or woman, that we are all shaped by the influences of others, including so many we've never seen because they are back there in history.

History teaches that nothing happens in isolation, or without cause and effect, and that nothing ever had to happen as it did.

History teaches tolerance, and the value of common sense, and as Voltaire (and who knows how many others) observed, common sense is anything but common.

History is about high achievement, glorious works of art, music, architecture, literature, philosophy, science and medicine -- not just politics and the military -- as the best of politicians and generals have readily attested. History is about leadership, and the power of ideas. History is about change, because the world has never not been changing, indeed because life itself is change.

History is the course of human events. And it must therefore be, if truthful, about failure, injustice, struggle, suffering, disappointment, and the humdrum. History demonstrates often in brutal fashion the evils of enforced ignorance and demagoguery. History is a source of strength, a constant reminder of the courage of others in times more trying and painful than our own. As Churchill reminded us, "We have not journeyed all this way... because we are made of sugar candy."

History is filled with voices that reach out and lift the spirits, sometimes from the distance of centuries.

Is it possible to imagine not learning from the wisest, most thoughtful people who shaped the world, or to fail to take heart from manifest courage?

Is life not infinitely more interesting and enjoyable when one can stand in a great historic place or walk historic ground, and know something of what happened there and in whose footsteps you walk?

For a free, self-governing people something more than a vague familiarity with history is essential, if we are to hold on to and sustain our freedom.

But I don't think history should ever be made to seem like some musty, unpleasant pill that has to be swallowed solely for our civic good. History, let us agree, can be an immense source of pleasure. For almost anyone with the normal human allotment of curiosity and an interest in people, it is a field day.

Why would anyone wish to be provincial in time, any more than being tied down to one place through life, when the whole reach of the human drama is there to experience in some of the greatest books ever written.

I guess if I had to boil it down to a few words, I would say history is a larger way of looking at life.

* * *

One of our innumerable advantages as a nation and a society is that we have such a specific moment of origin as the year 1776. And that we know who the Founders were -- indeed we know an immense amount about an immense number of those at all levels who in that revolutionary time brought the United States of America and the reality of freedom into being.

But while it is essential to remember them as individual mortal beings no more perfect in every way than are we, and that they themselves knew this better than anyone, it is also essential to understand that they knew their own great achievements to be imperfect and incomplete.

The American experiment was from its start an unfulfilled promise. There was much work to be done. There were glaring flaws to correct, unfinished business to attend to, improvements and necessary adjustments to devise in order to keep pace with the onrush of growth and change and expanding opportunities.

Those brave, high-minded people of earlier times gave us stars to steer by -- a government of laws not of men, equal justice before the law, the importance of the individual, the ideal of equality, freedom of religion, freedom of thought and expression, and the love of learning.

From them, in our own dangerous and promising present, we can take heart. As Edith Hamilton said of the Greeks, we can "catch sight of values that are stable because they are the hard-won possessions of humanity."

Blessed we are. And duty bound, to continue the great cause of freedom, in their spirit and in their memory and for those who are to carry on next in their turn.

There is still much work to be done, still much to learn.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness ....

Who's with me on this? Smile



-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 22:03
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

In other words, and further to my original contention,
 

I love the great libraries and archives where I've been privileged to work, and I treasure the friendships I've made with the librarians and archivists who have been so immensely helpful. I've been extremely fortunate in my subjects, I feel. The reward of the work has always been the work itself, and more so the longer I've been at it. The days are never long enough, and I've kept the most interesting company imaginable with people long gone. Some I've come to know better than many I know in real life, since in real life we don't get to read other people's mail.

I have also been extremely fortunate in the tributes that have come my way. But this singular honor, the Jefferson Lecture, is for me a high point, and my gratitude could not be greater.


* * *

Among the darkest times in living memory was the early part of 1942 -- when Hitler's armies were nearly to Moscow; when German submarines were sinking our oil tankers off the coasts of Florida and New Jersey, within sight of the beaches, and there was not a thing we could do about it; when half our navy had been destroyed at Pearl Harbor. We had scarcely any air force. Army recruits were drilling with wooden rifles. And there was no guarantee whatever that the Nazi war machine could be stopped.

It was then, in 1942, that the classical scholar Edith Hamilton issued an expanded edition of her book, The Greek Way, in which, in the preface, she wrote the following:


I have felt while writing these new chapters a fresh realization of the refuge and strength the past can be to us in the troubled present.... Religion is the great stronghold for the untroubled vision of the eternal; but there are others too. We have many silent sanctuaries in which we can find breathing space to free ourselves from the personal, to rise above our harassed and perplexed minds and catch sight of values that are stable, which no selfish and timorous preoccupations can make waver, because they are the hard-won permanent possessions of humanity....

When the world is storm-driven and the bad that happens and the worse that threatens are so urgent as to shut out everything else from view, then we need to know all the strong fortresses of the spirit which men have built through the ages.


* * *

In the Rotunda of the Capitol hangs a large painting of forty-seven men in a room. The scene is as familiar, as hallowed a moment in our history as any we have.

John Trumbull's Declaration of Independence has been a main attraction on Capitol tours for a very long time, since 1826. It draws crowds continuously, as it should, every day -- about three to five million people a year. It's probably been seen by more Americans than any painting ever -- and the scene as portrayed never took place.

Trumbull said it was meant to represent July 4, 1776, and that's the popular understanding. But the Declaration of Independence was not signed on July 4. The signing began on August 2, and continued through the year as absent delegates returned to Philadelphia. No formal signing ceremony ever took place.

The scene comes closer to portraying June 28, when Thomas Jefferson submitted his first draft of the Declaration. But then, too, there was no such dramatic gathering.

The room is wrong, the doors are in the wrong place. The chairs are wrong. (They were Windsor chairs of the plainest kind.) There were no heavy draperies at the windows. The decorative display of military trophies and banners on the back wall, is purely Trumbull's way of dressing the set.

Yet none of this really matters. What does matter greatly -- particularly in our own dangerous, uncertain time -- is the symbolic power of the painting, and where Trumbull put the emphasis.

The scene proclaims that in Philadelphia in the year 1776 a momentous, high-minded statement of far-reaching consequence was committed to paper. It was not the decree of a king or a sultan or emperor or czar, or something enacted by a far-distant parliament. It was a declaration of political faith and brave intent freely arrived at by an American congress. And that was something entirely new under the sun.

And there Trumbull has assembled them, men like other men, each, importantly, a specific, identifiable individual.

The accuracy is in the faces. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin were painted from life. Before he was finished, Trumbull painted or sketched thirty-six of the faces from life. It took him years and he spared no expense, because he wanted it right. He wanted us to know who they were.

Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin stand front and center exactly as they did in the real drama of the Revolution.

A number who signed the Declaration are not shown. Several who did not sign are present.

Most conspicuous by his absence is George Washington who had departed Congress the year before to take command of the army.


* * *

Lord Bolingbroke, the eighteenth century political philosopher, said that "history is philosophy teaching by examples." Thucydides is reported to have said much the same thing two thousand years earlier.

Jefferson saw history as largely a chronicle of mistakes to be avoided.

Daniel Boorstin, the former Librarian of Congress, has wisely said that trying to plan for the future without a sense of the past is like trying to plant cut flowers.

One might also say that history is not about the past. If you think about it, no one ever lived in the past. Washington, Jefferson, John Adams, and their contemporaries didn't walk about saying, "Isn't this fascinating living in the past! Aren't we picturesque in our funny clothes!" They lived in the present. The difference is it was their present, not ours. They were caught up in the living moment exactly as we are, and with no more certainty of how things would turn out than we have.

Nor were they gods. Indeed, to see them as gods or god-like is to do disservice to their memories. Gods, after all, don't deserve a lot of credit because they can do whatever they wish.

Those we call the Founders were living men. None was perfect. Each had his human flaws and failings, his weaknesses. They made mistakes, let others down, let themselves down.

Washington could be foolhardy and ill-tempered. Adams could be vain, irritable, Jefferson evasive, at times duplicitous. And even in their day, many saw stunning hypocrisy in the cause of liberty being championed by slave masters.

They were imperfect mortals, human beings. Jefferson made the point in the very first line of the Declaration of Independence. "When in the course of human events..." The accent should be on the word human.

And of course their humanity is not evident only in their failings. It's there in Adams's heart-felt correspondence with his wife and children, in Jefferson's love of gardening, his fascination, as he said, in every blade of grass that grows.

Washington had a passionate love of architecture and interior design. Everything about his home at Mt. Vernon was done to his ideas and plans. Only a year before the war, he began an ambitious expansion of the house, doubling its size. How extremely important this was to him, the extent of his esthetic sense, few people ever realized. He cared about every detail -- wall paper, paint color, hardware, ceiling ornaments -- and hated to be away from the project even for a day.

The patriotism and courage of these all-important protagonists stand as perhaps the most conspicuous and enduring testaments to their humanity. When those who signed the Declaration of Independence pledged their "lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor," that was no mere verbiage. They were putting their lives on the line. They were declaring themselves traitors to the King. If caught they would be hanged.

Stephen Hopkins of Rhode Island, who suffered from palsy, is said to have remarked as he signed his name, "My hand trembles, but my heart does not."

Hopkins was a grand old figure who had seen a lot of life. You can't miss him in the Trumbull painting. He's at the back with his broad-brimmed Quaker hat on. In after-hours he loved to drink rum and expound on his favorite writers. "He read Greek, Roman, and British history, and was familiar with English poetry," John Adams wrote. "And the flow of his soul made his reading our own, and seemed to bring recollection in all we had ever read."

We must never forget either how hard they worked. Nothing came easy. Nothing. Just getting through a day in the eighteenth century meant difficulties, discomforts, and effort of a kind we seldom even think about.

But it is in their ideas about happiness, I believe, that we come close to the heart of their being, and to their large view of the possibilities in their Glorious Cause.

In general, happiness was understood to mean being at peace with the world in the biblical sense, under one's own "vine and fig tree." But what did they, the Founders, mean by the expression, "pursuit of happiness"?

It didn't mean long vacations or material possessions or ease. As much as anything it meant the life of the mind and spirit. It meant education and the love of learning, the freedom to think for oneself.

Jefferson defined happiness as "tranquility and occupation." For Jefferson, as we know, occupation meant mainly his intellectual pursuits.

Washington, though less inclined to speculate on such matters, considered education of surpassing value, in part because he had had so little. Once, when a friend came to say he hadn't money enough to send his son to college, Washington agreed to help -- providing a hundred pounds in all, a sizable sum then -- and with the hope, as he wrote, that the boy's education would "not only promote his own happiness, but the future welfare of others …." For Washington, happiness derived both from learning and employing the benefits of learning to further the welfare of others.

John Adams, in a letter to his son John Quincy when the boy was a student at the University of Leiden, stressed that he should carry a book with him wherever he went. And that while a knowledge of Greek and Latin were essential, he must never neglect the great works of literature in his own language, and particularly those of the English poets. It was his happiness that mattered, Adams told him. "You will never be alone with a poet in your pocket."

The Revolution was another of the darkest, most uncertain of times and the longest war in American history, until the Vietnam War. It lasted eight and a half years, and Adams, because of his unstinting service to his country, was separated from his family nearly all that time, much to his and their distress. In a letter from France he tried to explain to them the reason for such commitment.


I must study politics and war [he wrote] that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study paintings, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.

That was the upward climb envisioned for the good society in the burgeoning new American republic. And Adams was himself vivid proof of the transforming miracle of education. His father was a farmer, his mother almost certainly illiterate. But with the help of a scholarship, he was able to attend Harvard, where, as he said, he discovered books and "read forever."

His Harvard studies over, Adams began teaching school at Worcester, then virtually the frontier. One crystal night, twenty years before the Declaration of independence, he stood beneath a sky full of stars, "thrown into a kind of transport." He knew such wonders of the heavens to be the gifts of God, he wrote, but greatest of all was the gift of an inquiring mind.


But all the provisions that He has [made] for the gratification of our senses ... are much inferior to the provision, the wonderful provision, that He has made for the gratification of our nobler powers of intelligence and reason. He has given us reason to find out the truth, and the real design and true end of our existence.

He had decided to study law. "It will be hard work," he told a friend. "But the point is now determined, and I shall have the liberty to think for myself."

Of all the sustaining themes in our story as a nation, as clear as any has been the importance put on education, one generation after another, beginning with the first village academies in New England and the establishment of Harvard and the College of William and Mary. The place of education in the values of the first presidents is unmistakable.

Washington contributed generously, some $20,000 in stock to the founding of what would become Washington and Lee University in Virginia. His gift was the largest donation ever made to any educational institution in the nation until then, and has since grown to a substantial part of the endowment.

Jefferson founded the University of Virginia. But then it may be fairly said that Jefferson was a university unto himself.

The oldest written constitution still in use in the world today is the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, drafted by John Adams in 1778, just two years after the Declaration of Independence and fully a decade before our national Constitution. In many respects it is a rough draft of our national Constitution. But it also contains a paragraph on education that was without precedent. Though Adams worried that it would be rejected as too radical, it was passed unanimously. Listen, please, to what it says:


Wisdom and knowledge, as well as virtue, diffused generally among the body of the people being necessary for the preservation of their rights and liberties. [Which is to say that there must be wisdom, knowledge, and virtue or all aspirations for the good society will come to nothing.] And as these depend on spreading the opportunities and advantages of education in various parts of the country, and among the different orders of the people [that is, everyone], it shall be the duty [not something they might consider, but the duty] of legislatures and magistrates in all future periods of this commonwealth to cherish the interests and literature and the sciences, and all seminaries of them ... public schools, and grammar schools in the towns.

And he goes on to define what he means by education. It is literature and the sciences, yes, but much more: agriculture, the arts, commerce, trades, manufacturers, "and a natural history of the country." It shall be the duty, he continues,


to countenance and inculcate the principles of humanity and general benevolence, public and private charity, industry and frugality, honesty [we will teach honesty] ... sincerity, [and, please note] good humor, and all social affections, and generous sentiments among the people.

What a noble statement!

Years before, while still living under his father's roof, Adams had written in his diary, "I must judge for myself, but how can I judge, how can any man judge, unless his mind has been opened and enlarged by reading."

They were nearly all young men in 1776, it should be remembered, young men who believed, as Thomas Paine proclaimed, that the birth of a new world was at hand.

Jefferson was thirty-three, Adams, forty, Benjamin Rush, the Philadelphia physician, was all of thirty when he signed the Declaration of Independence. Rush, one of the most interesting of them all, was a leader in the anti-slavery movement, a leader in prescribing humane treatment for the insane, and the first to champion the elective system in higher education.

When George Washington took command of the army, he was forty-three. He had never led an army in battle before in his life, any more than the others had had prior experience as revolutionaries or nation builders.

And what of Franklin? Franklin, oldest and wisest, is for me a special case.


* * *

I met my first revisionist historian when I was six.

His name was Amos and he was a mouse, an eighteenth century church mouse to be exact, one of twenty-six children who with their mother and father lived in Old Christ Church in Philadelphia. I can never be in Old Christ Church without wondering if perhaps some of Amos's line are still there, back behind the paneling.

Amos, who took up lodging in Benjamin Franklin's fur hat, is the narrator of a little book called Ben and Me by Robert Lawson.

Most so-called historians have had Franklin all wrong, according to Amos. "Ben was undoubtedly a splendid fellow, a great man, a patriot and all that," he writes, "but he was undeniably stupid at times and had it not been for me -- well, here's the true story..."

I was six, as I say, and I was hooked. I learned all about Philadelphia, printing presses, electricity, Franklin stoves, and the Palace of Versailles. I got to know Benjamin Franklin and, like Amos, relished his company.

And that was the start. I learned to love history by way of books. There was The Matchlock Gun by Walter D. Edmonds, The Last of the Mohicans, with those haunting illustrations by the N. C. Wyeth, the Revolutionary War novel Drums by James Boyd, with still more Wyeth paintings.

That was in the day when children were put to bed when sick, and I remember lying there utterly, blissfully lost in those illustrations.

The first book I ever bought with my own money was a Modern Library edition of Richard Henry Dana's Two Years before the Mast. I was fifteen years old. In a book shop in Pittsburgh, I picked up the book from a table, opened to the start of chapter one, read the first sentence, and knew I had to have that book:


The fourteenth of August was the day fixed upon for the sailing of the brig Pilgrim, on her voyage from Boston, round Cape Horn, to the western coast of America.

Growing up in Pittsburgh, I had never seen the ocean or heard the cry of a sea gull or smelled salt air.

I read Kenneth Robert's Oliver Wiswell, Thornton Wilder's The Bridge of San Louis Rey, Frederick Lewis Allen's Only Yesterday, and A Night to Remember by Walter Lord. I thank my lucky stars for Robert Abercrombie, who taught history my senior year in high school and made Morison and Commager's The Growth of the American Republic required reading. In the college years, I must have read a half dozen novels on the Second World War, including Herman Wouk's The Caine Mutiny and Irwin Shaw's The Young Lions.

Bruce Catton's A Stillness at Appomattox, a graduation present, started me reading about the Civil War, and started me thinking that maybe some day I might try writing something of the kind.

I loved all those books, and they're all still in print, still being read, which is no mystery. They're superbly well done, wonderfully well written.

There should be no hesitation ever about giving anyone a book to enjoy, at any age. There should be no hesitation about teaching future teachers with books they will enjoy. No harm's done to history by making it something someone would want to read.


* * *

We are what we read more than we know. And it was true no less in that distant founding time. Working on the life of John Adams, I tried to read not only what he and others of his day wrote, but what they read. And to take up and read again works of literature of the kind we all remember from high school or college English classes was not only a different kind of research, but pure delight.

I read Swift, Pope, Defoe, Sterne, Fielding, and Samuel Johnson again after forty years, and Tobias Smollett and Don Quixote for the first time.

I then began to find lines from these writers turning up in the letters of my American subjects, turning up without attribution, because the lines were part them, part of who they were and how they thought and expressed themselves.

But we do the same, more often than we realize. Every time we "refuse to budge an inch," or speak of "green-eyed jealousy," or claim to be "tongue-tied," we're quoting Shakespeare? When we say "a little learning is a dangerous thing," or "to err is human," or observe sagely that "fools rush in where angels fear to tread," we're borrowing from Alexander Pope, just as when you "slept not a wink," or "smell a rat," or "turn over a new leaf," or declare "mum's the word," you're quoting Cervantes?

When young Nathan Hale was hanged by the British as a spy in New York in 1776, he famously said as his last words, "My only regret is that I have but one life to lose for my country." That's a line from the popular play of the eighteenth century, Cato by Joseph Addison, a play they all knew. Washington, who loved the theater, is believed to have seen it half a dozen times.

Imagine how it must have been for Nathan Hale, about to be hanged. Who, in such a moment, could possibly think of something eloquent to say. I think he was throwing that line right back at those British officers. After all, Cato was their play.

I imagine him delivering the line, "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country."

One needs to read the great political philosophers -- Hume, Locke, Ferguson, Montesquieu -- whose writings had such profound influence on the founders. Yet there is hardly a more appealing description of the Enlightenment outlook on life and learning than a single sentence in a popular novel of the day, A Sentimental Journey by Laurence Sterne.


What a large volume of adventures may be grasped within this little span of life by him who interests his heart in everything.


* * *

The stimulation, the motivation, the hard work and pleasures of writing history are mainly in the material. It's the finding and figuring out that keep you in pursuit. And you never know... you never know where you will find something, see something that's gone unnoticed, or make some unexpected connection that brings things into focus in a new or different way.

The truth of history is the objective always. But the truth isn't just the facts. You can have all the facts imaginable and miss the truth, just as you can have facts missing or some wrong, and reach the larger truth.

As the incomparable Francis Parkman wrote:


Faithfulness to the truth of history involves far more than a research, however patient and scrupulous, into special facts. Such facts may be detailed with the most minute exactness, and yet the narrative, taken as a whole, may be unmeaning or untrue. The narrator must seek to imbue himself with the life and spirit of the time. He must study events in their bearings near and remote; in the character, habits, and manners of those who took part in them. He must himself be, as it were, a sharer or spectator of the action he describes.

"I hear all the notes, but I hear no music," is the old -piano teacher's complaint. There has to be music. History at best has to be literature or it will go to dust.

The work of history -- writing history, teaching history -- calls for mind and heart. Empathy is essential. The late J. H. Plumb, the eminent British historian, said that what is needed is more "heart-wise" historians.

What happened? And why? Who were those people? What was it like to have been alive then, in their shoes, in their skins? Of what were they afraid? What didn't they know?

Studying his face in the mirror, John Adams decided, "I am but an ordinary man. The times alone have destined me to fame." He was fishing. He was anything but ordinary and it is not possible to understand what happened in that tumultuous, protean time without knowing and understanding him and the others.

There are, of course, great sweeping tides in history -- plague, famine, financial panic, the calamities of nature and war. Yet time and again, more often than not history turns on individual personality, or character.

I am presently at work on a book about the Revolution, with the focus on Washington and the army in the year 1776, which in the last months was the nadir of the fortunes of the United States of America, when the army was down to little more than three thousand men. By December, by all signs, the war was over and we had lost. Fortunately Washington did not see it that way. Had it not been for Washington and his little ragtag army, the Declaration of independence and all it promised would have truly been "a skiff made of paper."

There are no paintings or sketches of the soldiers done at the time. Most that we have are by Trumbull, himself a veteran of the war, but his were all painted afterward.

It's in the surviving diaries, journals, letters, pension files, in descriptions posted for deserters, that those in the ranks begin to emerge as flesh-and-blood individual men caught up in something far bigger than they knew.

There was Jabez Fitch, for example, a Connecticut farmer with eight children, who liked soldiering and kept a diary describing the war as he saw it day by day. There was young John Greenwood, a fifer boy, who at age sixteen walked all alone 150 miles from Maine to Boston to join up with Washington's army. And Mathias Smith, a deserter, who was described as: "a small smart fellow, a saddler by trade, grey headed, has a younger look in his face, is apt to say, 'I swear, I swear!' And between his words will spit smart; had on a green coat, and an old red great coat; he is a right gamester, although he wears something of a sober look."

"Greece," wrote Edith Hamilton, "never lost sight of the individual." And neither should we, ever.

They were hungry, starving some of them, and without warm clothes as winter set in. Not all were patriots. Not all were heroes. Not all came home. But they were once as alive as you and I.

"Posterity who are to reap the blessings," wrote Abigail Adams, "will scarcely be able to conceive the hardships and sufferings of their ancestors."


* * *

History is -- or should be -- a lesson in appreciation. History helps us keep a sense of proportion.

History teaches that there is no such thing as a self-made man or woman, that we are all shaped by the influences of others, including so many we've never seen because they are back there in history.

History teaches that nothing happens in isolation, or without cause and effect, and that nothing ever had to happen as it did.

History teaches tolerance, and the value of common sense, and as Voltaire (and who knows how many others) observed, common sense is anything but common.

History is about high achievement, glorious works of art, music, architecture, literature, philosophy, science and medicine -- not just politics and the military -- as the best of politicians and generals have readily attested. History is about leadership, and the power of ideas. History is about change, because the world has never not been changing, indeed because life itself is change.

History is the course of human events. And it must therefore be, if truthful, about failure, injustice, struggle, suffering, disappointment, and the humdrum. History demonstrates often in brutal fashion the evils of enforced ignorance and demagoguery. History is a source of strength, a constant reminder of the courage of others in times more trying and painful than our own. As Churchill reminded us, "We have not journeyed all this way... because we are made of sugar candy."

History is filled with voices that reach out and lift the spirits, sometimes from the distance of centuries.

Is it possible to imagine not learning from the wisest, most thoughtful people who shaped the world, or to fail to take heart from manifest courage?

Is life not infinitely more interesting and enjoyable when one can stand in a great historic place or walk historic ground, and know something of what happened there and in whose footsteps you walk?

For a free, self-governing people something more than a vague familiarity with history is essential, if we are to hold on to and sustain our freedom.

But I don't think history should ever be made to seem like some musty, unpleasant pill that has to be swallowed solely for our civic good. History, let us agree, can be an immense source of pleasure. For almost anyone with the normal human allotment of curiosity and an interest in people, it is a field day.

Why would anyone wish to be provincial in time, any more than being tied down to one place through life, when the whole reach of the human drama is there to experience in some of the greatest books ever written.

I guess if I had to boil it down to a few words, I would say history is a larger way of looking at life.


* * *

One of our innumerable advantages as a nation and a society is that we have such a specific moment of origin as the year 1776. And that we know who the Founders were -- indeed we know an immense amount about an immense number of those at all levels who in that revolutionary time brought the United States of America and the reality of freedom into being.

But while it is essential to remember them as individual mortal beings no more perfect in every way than are we, and that they themselves knew this better than anyone, it is also essential to understand that they knew their own great achievements to be imperfect and incomplete.

The American experiment was from its start an unfulfilled promise. There was much work to be done. There were glaring flaws to correct, unfinished business to attend to, improvements and necessary adjustments to devise in order to keep pace with the onrush of growth and change and expanding opportunities.

Those brave, high-minded people of earlier times gave us stars to steer by -- a government of laws not of men, equal justice before the law, the importance of the individual, the ideal of equality, freedom of religion, freedom of thought and expression, and the love of learning.

From them, in our own dangerous and promising present, we can take heart. As Edith Hamilton said of the Greeks, we can "catch sight of values that are stable because they are the hard-won possessions of humanity."

Blessed we are. And duty bound, to continue the great cause of freedom, in their spirit and in their memory and for those who are to carry on next in their turn.

There is still much work to be done, still much to learn.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness ....

Who's with me on this? Smile



Umh... maybe it's a prog related thing... you see, I'm very into electronic music, wich is all about minimalism... also, I have a girlfriend and I spent many hours in romance... so... uhm... what a weird coincidence...

-------------
¡Beware of the Bee!
   


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 22:20
Originally posted by cuncuna cuncuna wrote:


Umh... maybe it's a prog related thing... you see, I'm very into electronic music, wich is all about minimalism... also, I have a girlfriend and I spent many hours in romance... so... uhm... what a weird coincidence...
EXACTLY! Thumbs%20Up
 
You say it so much more concisely than I could! Clap


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 22:20
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Stern%20SmileWell, I believe that while many approaches exist, during our study of Many-Body Perturbation Theory (MBPT) it will become evident that Rayleigh-Schrödinger Perturbation Theory (RSPT) is an excellent starting point. Chapter 9 of Ref. [ http://zopyros.ccqc.uga.edu/lec_top/pt/node30.html#levine - 2 ]\ contains an excellent introduction to RSPT.

Let tex2html_wrap_inline3831 be the Hamiltonian for the quantum mechanical system of interest. As always, we are interested in the eigenvalues and eigenfunctions which are solutions to the Schrödinger equation.
equation128
  Assume a similar system exists for which non-degenerate solutions (eigenvalues and eigenfunctions) are already known or easily obtained.
equation134
  Let the difference between tex2html_wrap_inline3831 and tex2html_wrap_inline3835 be denoted as tex2html_wrap_inline3837.
equation143
Introduce a physically motivated perturbation parameter tex2html_wrap_inline3839.
equation145

The Schrödinger equation for the system becomes
 equation147
Since tex2html_wrap_inline3831 depends on tex2html_wrap_inline3843, the eigenfunctions and eigenvalues of tex2html_wrap_inline3831 must also depend on tex2html_wrap_inline3843. Thus tex2html_wrap_inline3849 and tex2html_wrap_inline3851 can be expanded in a power series with respect to tex2html_wrap_inline3843.
eqnarray153
The following abbreviations were employed in the expansion.
eqnarray168
To obtain the energy tex2html_wrap_inline3855 or wavefunction tex2html_wrap_inline3857 of a system you merely sum the corrections. Obviously the convergence of these power series becomes a key issue since the summations must be truncated in practice.

Using these expansions of tex2html_wrap_inline3851 and tex2html_wrap_inline3849 in the Schrödinger equation (Eqn http://zopyros.ccqc.uga.edu/lec_top/pt/node5.html#eqnScheqn0 - 10 ) for the system of interest we have
 eqnarray184
Expanding this we obtain terms with various powers of tex2html_wrap_inline3843 on both the l.h.s. and r.h.s. If equality is to hold for all tex2html_wrap_inline3839, all terms on the l.h.s. of Eqn. http://zopyros.ccqc.uga.edu/lec_top/pt/node5.html#eqnexpSE - 15 must equal to those on the r.h.s. for a given power of lambda. This gives rise to the so called ``kth order Schrödinger equations.'' 
    

 
eqnarray206
 
And I'm sure my esteemed colleague Ivan will back me on that! Stern%20Smile


Pffffftt... Wavefunctions are SO easy.  I was manipulating the Schrodinger equation like that when I was 10 years old. 


-------------



Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 22:43
If theyre mad at me, I read it.
 
If they're not, I couldnt care lessEvil%20Smile


-------------


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 23:28
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:


Pffffftt... Wavefunctions are SO easy.  I was manipulating the Schrodinger equation like that when I was 10 years old. 
Oh yeah, Mr Smarty pants?Angry
 
Well I hold these truths to be self-evident: that all progholes are created equal, that they are endowed by Maani with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of progginess. That to secure these rights, forum moderators are instituted among men, Dutch hermaphrodites and progholes, deriving their just powers from the consent of the moderated. That whenever any form of moderation becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the progholes to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new moderation, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its mellotrons in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prog Chick, indeed, will dictate that categories and sub-genres long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that progholes are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forums to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off Tony R and his evil cadre of opressors Jim, Bob, Guigo and THE PROGTOLOGIST, and to provide new guards of Magog for their future security. --

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#par3 - sufferance of these progholes; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of Prog Archives is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these our forums. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid (if uncaring) world.

Tony has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the Progressive good.

Tony has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

Tony has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of progholes, unless those dweebs would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

Tony has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures, and to mincingly model frilly women's undergarments for their unbelieving eyes.

Tony has locked and/or deleted representative threads repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#par4 - for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the pimpled masses at large for their exercise; the forum remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

Tony has endeavored to prevent the quivering members of these forums; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of Bowie fans; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of their lagers and ales.

Terrible Tony http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#par5 - the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.

Tony has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their payola and graft.

Tony http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#offices - (ohh! Er! I SAY!) a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of peevish, unsmiling metalheads to harass our fey, wan, proggy people, and eat out their substance.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#ships - , in times of peace, standing armies of moronic moderators without the consent of our One True King Peter.

Tony has affected to render the moderators independent of and superior to civility and good Peter's power.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#combined - with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our remembrance of all things prog, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended "progression":

  • For quartering large bodies of armed Abba fans among us:
  • For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any sodomite indignities which they should commit on the members of these forums:
  • For cutting off our hitherto unlimited beer and pretzels tab in the members' lounge:
  • For imposing make-believe genres on us without our consent:
  • For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by bikini-clad, buxom, plus-size lingerie models:
  • For transporting us beyond seas to be tickled for pretended offenses:
  • For abolishing the free system of Progressive laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary moderation, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these forums:
  • http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#charters - - For suspending us by our skivvies, and declaring themselves invested with power to seize our lunch monies in all cases whatsoever.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#abdicated - here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, leered most unseemly at (all three of) our womenfolk, burned our towns, eaten all the pies, and destroyed the lives of our people.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#armies - of foreign metalheads to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized prog forum.

He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands, and to listen unceasingly to Dreame Theatere.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#indians - insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless and corpulent Belgian beurocrats, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, ravishing of all and sundry sexes and untoward, perfidious twiddling  of the said knobs of Mellotron.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#in - we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A hulking Bolton bully, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free progholian people.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#nor - in attention to our Prog Metal brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their lummox of a leather-clad leader to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and signing on here. We have appealed to their naive justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our (supposed) common kindred to  progressive music to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace (grudging) friends.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#slot - the Supreme Judge of the world (Max? Ron? Maani?) for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these forums, solemnly publish and declare, that these Prog archives Forums are, and of right ought to be free and independent; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the Tony R Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of "Great" Tony, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent (if rather neurotic, obsessive and long-windedly argumentive) progholes, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, drink all the beer, establish commerce, post girly pictures, and to do all other acts and things which incontinent, flatulent reprobates may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of good King Peter, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, our Pallas CDs, our Greg lake posters, and our sacred honor.

 
So there! Nya nya nya! Tongue


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 23:31
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:


Pffffftt... Wavefunctions are SO easy.  I was manipulating the Schrodinger equation like that when I was 10 years old. 
Oh yeah, Mr Smarty pants?Angry
 
Well I hold these truths to be self-evident: that all progholes are created equal, that they are endowed by Maani with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of progginess. That to secure these rights, forum moderators are instituted among men, Dutch hermaphrodites and progholes, deriving their just powers from the consent of the moderated. That whenever any form of moderation becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the progholes to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new moderation, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its mellotrons in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prog Chick, indeed, will dictate that categories and sub-genres long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that progholes are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forums to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off Tony R and his evil cadre of opressors Jim, Bob, Guigo and THE PROGTOLOGIST, and to provide new guards of Magog for their future security. --

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#par3 - sufferance of these progholes; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of Prog Archives is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these our forums. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid (if uncaring) world.

Tony has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the Progressive good.

Tony has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

Tony has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of progholes, unless those dweebs would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

Tony has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures, and to mincingly model frilly women's undergarments for their unbelieving eyes.

Tony has locked and/or deleted representative threads repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#par4 - for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the pimpled masses at large for their exercise; the forum remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

Tony has endeavored to prevent the quivering members of these forums; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of Bowie fans; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of their lagers and ales.

Terrible Tony http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#par5 - the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.

Tony has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their payola and graft.

Tony http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#offices - (ohh! Er! I SAY!) a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of peevish, unsmiling metalheads to harass our fey, wan, proggy people, and eat out their substance.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#ships - , in times of peace, standing armies of moronic moderators without the consent of our One True King Peter.

Tony has affected to render the moderators independent of and superior to civility and good Peter's power.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#combined - with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our remembrance of all things prog, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended "progression":

  • For quartering large bodies of armed Abba fans among us:
  • For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any sodomite indignities which they should commit on the members of these forums:
  • For cutting off our hitherto unlimited beer and pretzels tab in the members' lounge:
  • For imposing make-believe genres on us without our consent:
  • For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by bikini-clad, buxom, plus-size lingerie models:
  • For transporting us beyond seas to be tickled for pretended offenses:
  • For abolishing the free system of Progressive laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary moderation, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these forums:
  • http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#charters - - For suspending us by our skivvies, and declaring themselves invested with power to seize our lunch monies in all cases whatsoever.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#abdicated - here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, leered most unseemly at (all three of) our womenfolk, burned our towns, eaten all the pies, and destroyed the lives of our people.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#armies - of foreign metalheads to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized prog forum.

He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands, and to listen unceasingly to Dreame Theatere.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#indians - insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless and corpulent Belgian beurocrats, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, ravishing of all and sundry sexes and untoward, perfidious twiddling  of the said knobs of Mellotron.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#in - we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A hulking Bolton bully, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free progholian people.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#nor - in attention to our Prog Metal brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their lummox of a leather-clad leader to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and signing on here. We have appealed to their naive justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our (supposed) common kindred to  progressive music to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace (grudging) friends.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doitj.htm#slot - the Supreme Judge of the world (Max? Ron? Maani?) for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these forums, solemnly publish and declare, that these Prog archives Forums are, and of right ought to be free and independent; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the Tony R Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of "Great" Tony, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent (if rather neurotic, obsessive and long-windedly, exhaustively argumentive) progholes, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, drink all the beer, establish commerce, post girly pictures, and to do all other acts and things which incontinent, flatulent reprobates may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of good King Peter, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, our Pallas CDs, our Greg lake posters, and our sacred honor.

 
So there! Nya nya nya! Tongue


Anybody who goes through the Declaration of Independence and replaces a few words per sentence with references to a Prog-rock forum really has too much time on their hands.  I assume you had today off, Peter? 


-------------



Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 23:49
Originally posted by <strong><FONT color=#ff0000>riled dog22</FONT></strong> riled dog22 wrote:


Anybody who goes through the Declaration of Independence and replaces a few words per sentence with references to a Prog-rock forum really has too much time on their hands.  I assume you had today off, Peter? 
Thanks for laughing.Unhappy
 
No, no day off, just trying to amuse.
 
But why bother, hey, my unsmiling friend?Confused
 
 
 
ErmmWell, at least I had a bit of fum with it, anyway.... goodnight now! Big%20smile


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 23:51
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by <strong><font color=#ff0000>riled dog22</font></strong> riled dog22 wrote:


Anybody who goes through the Declaration of Independence and replaces a few words per sentence with references to a Prog-rock forum really has too much time on their hands.  I assume you had today off, Peter? 
Thanks for laughing.Unhappy
 
No, no day off, just trying to amuse.
 
But why bother, hey, my unsmiling friend?Confused
 
 
 
ErmmWell, at least I had a bit of fum with it, anyway.... goodnight now! Big%20smile


I can't say I read very much of your post.  Maybe it was "fummy," maybe not.  Wink


-------------



Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: September 13 2007 at 23:53
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by <strong><font color=#ff0000>riled dog22</font></strong> riled dog22 wrote:


Anybody who goes through the Declaration of Independence and replaces a few words per sentence with references to a Prog-rock forum really has too much time on their hands.  I assume you had today off, Peter? 
Thanks for laughing.Unhappy
 
No, no day off, just trying to amuse.
 
But why bother, hey, my unsmiling friend?Confused
 
 
 
ErmmWell, at least I had a bit of fum with it, anyway.... goodnight now! Big%20smile
I liked it.LOLThumbs%20Up


Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 00:07
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by <strong><font color=#ff0000>riled dog22</font></strong> riled dog22 wrote:


Anybody who goes through the Declaration of Independence and replaces a few words per sentence with references to a Prog-rock forum really has too much time on their hands.  I assume you had today off, Peter? 
Thanks for laughing.Unhappy
 
No, no day off, just trying to amuse.
 
But why bother, hey, my unsmiling friend?Confused
 
 
 
ErmmWell, at least I had a bit of fum with it, anyway.... goodnight now! Big%20smile


I can always see comedy values in your posts, but this time, the reference is a bit too much for me. I'm not familiar with the original text at all, so the joke is impossible for me to decode. But I salute your dedication. I just wish I could be 0,1% as funny.


-------------
¡Beware of the Bee!
   


Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 00:22
American History+Prog+Jokes=Something worth reading.
Nice job Clap


-------------
<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]



Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 03:29
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:


Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, Genesis aren't that good, infact, Phil Collins head is so shiney, I want to polish it with a chamois leather and a bottle of aryldite. I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do, I repeat myself under stress, I do.

 

 

Then we all know that. Thank you, James! LOLWink
At least quote the updated version. LOL


Why? It's much more fun when somebody quotes a passage with a spelling mistake

Excellent post, by the way

-------------

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 03:41
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by <strong><font color=#ff0000>riled dog22</font></strong> riled dog22 wrote:


Anybody who goes through the Declaration of Independence and replaces a few words per sentence with references to a Prog-rock forum really has too much time on their hands.  I assume you had today off, Peter? 

Thanks for laughing.Unhappy

 

No, no day off, just trying to amuse.

 

But why bother, hey, my unsmiling friend?Confused

 

 

 

ErmmWell, at least I had a bit of fum with it, anyway.... goodnight now! Big%20smile


Personally, I want Tony to answer each and every one of the charges put to him with particular reference to those involving mellotron knob twiddling, trial by plus-size lingerie models, and eating all the pies.

Peter - Splendid job!

Your next task should you choose to accept it: The Constitution Of ProgArchives.

-------------

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 03:55
Whoah, whoah, whoah...there are ABBA fans here?
 
Screw this, I'm out.


-------------
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 08:20
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:


Personally, I want Tony to answer each and every one of the charges put to him with particular reference to those involving mellotron knob twiddling, trial by plus-size lingerie models, and eating all the pies.

Peter - Splendid job!

Your next task should you choose to accept it: The Constitution Of ProgArchives.
Yes -- Tony and his evil cohorts have a LOT to answer for! Wink
 
My only regret is that I did not keep the original words I replaced (with a line through them), next to the new words. This would have heightened the humour -- for example, "Providence" in the original became "Prog Chick," "native justice" became "naive justice," and "guards" became "Guards of Magog" (as in Supper's Ready).
 
SmileThanks for the compliments, & glad that some found it "fummy" -- once I got going on it, I couldn't stop! Confused
 
Well, now I've read the entire US Declaration of Independence, anyway....LOL


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 08:25
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:


Personally, I want Tony to answer each and every one of the charges put to him with particular reference to those involving mellotron knob twiddling, trial by plus-size lingerie models, and eating all the pies.

Peter - Splendid job!

Your next task should you choose to accept it: The Constitution Of ProgArchives.
Yes -- Tony and his evil cohorts have a LOT to answer for! Wink
 
My only regret is that I did not keep the original words I replaced (with a line through them), next to the new words. This would have heightened the humour -- for example, "Providence" in the original became "Prog Chick," "native justice" became "naive justice," and "guards" became "Guards of Magog" (as in Supper's Ready).
 
SmileThanks for the compliments -- once I got going on it, I couldn't stop.Confused
 
Well, now I've read the entire US Decalration of Independence, anyway....LOL


LOL

Poor old Ivan will be scything through the Peruvian Constitution to regain his crown as ProgArchives most comprehensive and bluest responder to posts...Wink


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 09:06
Stern%20Smile Well, Tony, here's a link to my inspiring official "Peter for Prog Uberfuhrer" campaign theme, and then some scenes from the party we rebels had after I brutally usurped was duly elected as the leader of  PAs "fallen angel" rebel forces:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJXc6JUOUc8&mode=related&search - PETERFORPAPREZ!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8oZtPcrhrs - PETER'SPARTY
 
 
Listen and tremble in fear -- your days of pampered privilege are numbered! Angry
 
 


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 14:40

Spiders... I'm scared of them...



Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 14:41
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Spiders... I'm scared of them...

I somehow always knew you were Ronald Weasley in disguise !


-------------
"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 14:44
Originally posted by Melomaniac Melomaniac wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Spiders... I'm scared of them...

I somehow always knew you were Ronald Weasley in disguise !
 
Yes... whenever I say wingardium leviosa, something just doesn't come up....LOL
 
I just Ouch myself....Confused


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 22:23
I'm a long reply virgin. 


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 22:34
Get into a discussion about God with Ivan. He'll pop your long reply cherry.





That sounds so wrong.


-------------
http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: September 14 2007 at 22:58
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Get into a discussion about God with Ivan. He'll pop your long reply cherry.





That sounds so wrong.


LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 15 2007 at 00:08
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Get into a discussion about God with Ivan. He'll pop your long reply cherry.





That sounds so wrong.


Many of those long replies were directed at me. 

Ah, I miss the religion thread.  Where were we, page 55?  Somebody bump that thing so we can yell at each other again!


-------------



Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 15 2007 at 02:35
Yes Rilleydog, it was interesting, but don't painmt me as a fanatic, I only defend the right of believe in whatever you want as long as you have tolerance.
 
Iván


-------------
            


Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: September 15 2007 at 02:53
Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:

I'm a long reply virgin. 
 
...Okay, sir? You're going to have to trim that response, some of us don't have time to read all that. Thank you.


-------------
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson


Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: September 15 2007 at 17:09
Errr...NO..if  Peter reply....no,no,no....Yes,yes I read all ,including Peter responsesLOL


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 15 2007 at 18:55
Markosherrera, you may not reply that long in polls, but you surely create some LONG POLLS....LOL


Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: September 15 2007 at 20:00
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Markosherrera, you may not reply that long in polls, but you surely create some LONG POLLS....LOL
 
YesLOL


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: September 19 2007 at 17:51
Originally posted by The Whistler The Whistler wrote:

Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:

I'm a long reply virgin. 
 
...Okay, sir? You're going to have to trim that response, some of us don't have time to read all that. Thank you.

Write a book, why don't you, WHISTLURrr.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 19 2007 at 18:00
Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:

Originally posted by The Whistler The Whistler wrote:

Originally posted by Shakespeare Shakespeare wrote:

I'm a long reply virgin. 
 
...Okay, sir? You're going to have to trim that response, some of us don't have time to read all that. Thank you.

Write a book, why don't you, WHISTLURrr.
tl;dr Sleepy


-------------
What?


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: September 19 2007 at 18:02
you only say that because you're mad at me


Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: September 19 2007 at 18:02
Step 1:

Go to the thread

Step 2:

Quote the entire thing

Step 3:

Post one of the two in big, bold letters:

1. TL;DR
2. NOBODY GIVES A SHIT


Posted By: activetopics
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 20:05
hooray for successful threads! 


Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 20:31
Bullseye Lucent. That's the thing you see here more than often.

Usually when someone really has something to say, I read it. It's the short pointless answers that I most often ignore. Pretty much because a constructive feedback or comment can't really be forced into 2 sentences with 5 smilies and a half page quote. I just don't think those are worth reading or contemplating. Though if someone posts a bit longer things, they're worth reading, they deserve it after all the work on it.

And the same goes to cd/album reviews. I don't read, or I ignore all the short ones becase just saying song 1 good song 2 bad doesn't really help anyone, it jst gives the impression, that the writer never gave the cd a thought and just wants to have more reviews to get a higher status. I like long texts. I prefer writing them myself. I like to stress my point in the way that makes sense and makes people think. not in the "lol imo stoopid" way.


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 22:51
Originally posted by Passionist, forthrightly Passionist, forthrightly wrote:

]Bullseye Lucent. That's the thing you see here more than often.

Usually when someone really has something to say, I read it. It's the short pointless answers that I most often ignore. Pretty much because a constructive feedback or comment can't really be forced into 2 sentences with 5 smilies and a half page quote. I just don't think those are worth reading or contemplating. Though if someone posts a bit longer things, they're worth reading, they deserve it after all the work on it.

And the same goes to cd/album reviews. I don't read, or I ignore all the short ones becase just saying song 1 good song 2 bad doesn't really help anyone, it jst gives the impression, that the writer never gave the cd a thought and just wants to have more reviews to get a higher status. I like long texts. I prefer writing them myself. I like to stress my point in the way that makes sense and makes people think. not in the "lol imo stoopid" way.
 Stern%20SmileThat's all well and good, Fashionist, but I've heard it said (stop me if you've heard this one before) that
when the knight had thus his story told,
In all the rout there was nor young nor old
But said it was a noble story, well
Worthy to be kept in mind to tell;
And specially the gentle folk, each one.
Our host, he laughed and swore, "So may I run,
But this goes well; unbuckled is the mail;
Let's see now who can tell another tale:
For certainly the game is well begun.
Now shall you tell, sir monk, if't can be done,
Something with which to pay for the knight's tale."
The miller, who with drinking was all pale,
So that unsteadily on his horse he sat,
He would not take off either hood or hat,
Nor wait for any man, in courtesy,
But all in Pilate's voice began to cry,
And by the Arms and Blood and Bones he swore,
"I have a noble story in my store,
With which I will requite the good knight's tale."
Our host saw, then, that he was drunk with ale,
And said to him: "Wait, Robin, my dear brother,
Some better man shall tell us first another:
Submit and let us work on profitably."
"Now by God's soul," cried he, "that will not I!
For I will speak, or else I'll go my way."
Our host replied: "Tell on, then, till doomsday!
You are a fool, your wit is overcome."
"Now hear me," said the miller, "all and some!
But first I make a protestation round
That I'm quite drunk, I know it by my sound:
And therefore, if I slander or mis-say,
Blame it on ale of Southwark, so I pray;
For I will tell a legend and a life
Both of a carpenter and of his wife,
And how a scholar set the good wright's cap."
The reeve replied and said: "Oh, shut your trap,
Let be your ignorant drunken ribaldry!
It is a sin, and further, great folly
To asperse any man, or him defame,
And, too, to bring upon a man's wife shame.
There are enough of other things to say."
This drunken miller spoke on in his way,
And said: "Oh, but my dear brother Oswald,
The man who has no wife is no cuckold.
But I say not, thereby, that you are one:
Many good wives there are, as women run,
And ever a thousand good to one that's bad,
As well you know yourself, unless you're mad.
Why are you angry with my story's cue?
I have a wife, begad, as well as you,
Yet I'd not, for the oxen of my plow,
Take on my shoulders more than is enow,
By judging of myself that I am one;
I will believe full well that I am none.
A husband must not be inquisitive
Of God, nor of his wife, while she's alive.
So long as he may find God's plenty there,
For all the rest he need not greatly care."
What should I say, except this miller rare
He would forgo his talk for no man there,
But told his churlish tale in his own way:
I think I'll here re-tell it, if I may.
And therefore, every gentle soul, I pray
That for God's love you'll hold not what I say
Evilly meant, but that I must rehearse,
All of their tales, the better and the worse,
Or else prove false to some of my design.
Therefore, who likes not this, let him, in fine,
Turn over page and choose another tale:
For he shall find enough, both great and small,
Of stories touching on gentility,
And holiness, and on morality;
And blame not me if you do choose amiss.
The miller was a churl, you well know this;
So was the reeve, and many another more,
And ribaldry they told from plenteous store.
Be then advised, and hold me free from blame;
Men should not be too serious at a game.

THE MILLER'S TALE
Once on a time was dwelling in Oxford
A wealthy lout who took in guests to board,
And of his craft he was a carpenter.
A poor scholar was lodging with him there,
Who'd learned the arts, but all his phantasy
Was turned to study of astrology;
And knew a certain set of theorems
And could find out by various stratagems,
If men but asked of him in certain hours
When they should have a drought or else have showers,
Or if men asked of him what should befall
To anything- I cannot reckon them all.
This clerk was called the clever Nicholas;
Of secret loves he knew and their solace;
And he kept counsel, too, for he was sly
And meek as any maiden passing by.
He had a chamber in that hostelry,
And lived alone there, without company,
All garnished with sweet herbs of good repute;
And he himself sweet-smelling as the root
Of licorice, valerian, or setwall.
His Almagest, and books both great and small,
His astrolabe, belonging to his art,
His algorism stones- all laid apart
On shelves that ranged beside his lone bed's head;
His press was covered with a cloth of red.
And over all there lay a psaltery
Whereon he made an evening's melody,
Playing so sweetly that the chamber rang;
And Angelus ad virginem he sang;
And after that he warbled the King's Note:
Often in good voice was his merry throat.
And thus this gentle clerk his leisure spends
Supported by some income and his friends.
This carpenter had lately wed a wife
Whom lie loved better than he loved his life;
And she was come to eighteen years of age.
Jealous he was and held her close in cage.
For she was wild and young, and he was old,
And deemed himself as like to be cuckold.
He knew not Cato, for his lore was rude:
That vulgar man should wed similitude.
A man should wed according to estate,
For youth and age are often in debate.
But now, since he had fallen in the snare,
He must endure, like other folk, his care.
Fair was this youthful wife, and therewithal
As weasel's was her body slim and small.
A girdle wore she, barred and striped, of silk.
An apron, too, as white as morning milk
About her loins, and full of many a gore;
White was her smock, embroidered all before
And even behind, her collar round about,
Of coal-black silk, on both sides, in and out;
The strings of the white cap upon her head
Were, like her collar, black silk worked with thread,
Her fillet was of wide silk worn full high:
And certainly she had a lickerish eye.
She'd thinned out carefully her eyebrows two,
And they were arched and black as any sloe.
She was a far more pleasant thing to see
Than is the newly budded young pear-tree;
And softer than the wool is on a wether.
Down from her girdle hung a purse of leather,
Tasselled with silk, with latten beading sown.
In all this world, searching it up and down,
So gay a little doll, I well believe,
Or such a wench, there's no man can conceive.
Far brighter was the brilliance of her hue
Than in the Tower the gold coins minted new.
And songs came shrilling from her pretty head
As from a swallow's sitting on a shed.
Therewith she'd dance too, and could play and sham
Like any kid or calf about its dam.
Her mouth was sweet as bragget or as mead
Or hoard of apples laid in hay or weed.
Skittish she was as is a pretty colt,
Tall as a staff and straight as cross-bow bolt.
A brooch she wore upon her collar low,
As broad as boss of buckler did it show;
Her shoes laced up to where a girl's legs thicken.
She was a primrose, and a tender chicken
For any lord to lay upon his bed,
Or yet for any good yeoman to wed.
Now, sir, and then, sir, go befell the case,
That on a day this clever Nicholas
Fell in with this young wife to toy and play,
The while her husband was down Osney way,
Clerks being as crafty as the best of us;
And unperceived he caught her by the puss,
Saying: "Indeed, unless I have my will,
For secret love of you, sweetheart, I'll spill."
And held her hard about the hips, and how!
And said: "O darling, love me, love me now,
Or I shall die, and pray you God may save!"
And she leaped as a colt does in the trave,
And with her head she twisted fast away,
And said: "I will not kiss you, by my fay!
Why, let go," cried she, "let go, Nicholas!
Or I will call for help and cry 'alas!'
Do take your hands away, for courtesy!"
This Nicholas for mercy then did cry,
And spoke so well, importuned her so fast
That she her love did grant him at the last,
And swore her oath, by Saint Thomas of Kent,
That she would be at his command, content,
As soon as opportunity she could spy.
"My husband is so full of jealousy,
Unless you will await me secretly,
I know I'm just as good as dead," said she.
"You must keep all quite hidden in this case."
"Nay, thereof worry not," said Nicholas,
"A clerk has lazily employed his while
If he cannot a carpenter beguile."
And thus they were agreed, and then they swore
To wait a while, as I have said before.
When Nicholas had done thus every whit
And patted her about the loins a bit,
He kissed her sweetly, took his psaltery,
And played it fast and made a melody.
Then fell it thus, that to the parish kirk,
The Lord Christ Jesus' own works for to work,
This good wife went, upon a holy day;
Her forehead shone as bright as does the May,
So well she'd washed it when she left off work.
Now there was of that church a parish clerk
Whose name was (as folk called him) Absalom.
Curled was his hair, shining like gold, and from
His head spread fanwise in a thick bright mop;
'Twas parted straight and even on the top;
His cheek was red, his eyes grey as a goose;
With Saint Paul's windows cut upon his shoes,
He stood in red hose fitting famously.
And he was clothed full well and properly
All in a coat of blue, in which were let
Holes for the lacings, which were fairly set.
And over all he wore a fine surplice
As white as ever hawthorn spray, and nice.
A merry lad he was, so God me save,
And well could he let blood, cut hair, and shave,
And draw a deed or quitclaim, as might chance.
In twenty manners could he trip and dance,
After the school that reigned in Oxford, though,
And with his two legs swinging to and fro;
And he could play upon a violin;
Thereto he sang in treble voice and thin;
And as well could he play on his guitar.
In all the town no inn was, and no bar,
That he'd not visited to make good cheer,
Especially were lively barmaids there.
But, truth to tell, he was a bit squeamish
Of farting and of language haughtyish.
This Absalom, who was so light and gay,
Went with a censer on the holy day,
Censing the wives like an enthusiast;
And on them many a loving look he cast,
Especially on this carpenter's goodwife.
To look at her he thought a merry life,
She was so pretty, sweet, and lickerous.
I dare well say, if she had been a mouse
And he a cat, he would have mauled her some.
This parish clerk, this lively Absalom
Had in his heart, now, such a love-longing
That from no wife took he an offering;
For courtesy, he said, he would take none.
The moon, when it was night, full brightly shone,
And his guitar did Absalom then take,
For in love-watching he'd intent to wake.
And forth he went, jolly and amorous,
Until he came unto the carpenter's house
A little after cocks began to crow;
And took his stand beneath a shot-window
That was let into the good wood-wright's wall.
He sang then, in his pleasant voice and small,
"Oh now, dear lady, if your will it be,
I pray that you will have some ruth on me,"
The words in harmony with his string-plucking.
This carpenter awoke and heard him sing,
And called unto his wife and said, in sum:
"What, Alison! Do you hear Absalom,
Who plays and sings beneath our bedroom wall?"
And she said to her husband, therewithal:
"Yes, God knows, John, I bear it, truth to tell."
So this went on; what is there better than well?
From day to day this pretty Absalom
So wooed her he was woebegone therefrom.
He lay awake all night and all the day;
He combed his spreading hair and dressed him gay;
By go-betweens and agents, too, wooed he,
And swore her loyal page he'd ever be.
He sang as tremulously as nightingale;
He sent her sweetened wine and well-spiced ale
And waffles piping hot out of the fire,
And, she being town-bred, mead for her desire.
For some are won by means of money spent,
And some by tricks, and some by long descent.
Once, to display his versatility,
He acted Herod on a scaffold high.
But what availed it him in any case?
She was enamoured so of Nicholas
That Absalom might go and blow his horn;
He got naught for his labour but her scorn.
And thus she made of Absalom her ape,
And all his earnestness she made a jape.
For truth is in this proverb, and no lie,
Men say well thus: It's always he that's nigh
That makes the absent lover seem a sloth.
For now, though Absalom be wildly wroth,
Because he is so far out of her sight,
This handy Nicholas stands in his light.
Now bear you well, you clever Nicholas!
For Absalom may wail and sing "Alas!"
And so it chanced that on a Saturday
This carpenter departed to. Osney;
And clever Nicholas and Alison
Were well agreed to this effect: anon
This Nicholas should put in play a wile
The simple, jealous husband to beguile;
And if it chanced the game should go a-right,
She was to sleep within his arms all night,
For this was his desire, and hers also.
Presently then, and without more ado,
This Nicholas, no longer did he tarry,
But softly to his chamber did he carry
Both food and drink to last at least a day,
Saying that to her husband she should say-
If he should come to ask for Nicholas-
Why, she should say she knew not where he was,
For all day she'd not seen him, far or nigh;
She thought he must have got some malady,
Because in vain her maid would knock and call;
He'd answer not, whatever might befall.
And so it was that all that Saturday
This Nicholas quietly in chamber lay,
And ate and slept, or did what pleased him best,
Till Sunday when the sun had gone to rest.
This simple man with wonder heard the tale,
And marvelled what their Nicholas might ail,
And said: "I am afraid, by Saint Thomas,
That everything's not well with Nicholas.
God send he be not dead so suddenly!
This world is most unstable, certainly;
I saw, today, the corpse being borne to kirk
Of one who, but last Monday, was at work.
Go up," said he unto his boy anon,
"Call at his door, or knock there with a stone,
Learn how it is and boldly come tell me."
The servant went up, then, right sturdily,
And at the chamber door, the while he stood,
He cried and knocked as any madman would-
"What! How! What do you, Master Nicholay?
How can you sleep through all the livelong day?"
But all for naught, he never heard a word;
A hole he found, low down upon a board,
Through which the house cat had been wont to creep;
And to that hole he stooped, and through did peep,
And finally he ranged him in his sight.
This Nicholas sat gaping there, upright,
As if he'd looked too long at the new moon.
Downstairs he went and told his master soon
In what array he'd found this self-same man.
This carpenter to cross himself began,
And said: "Now help us, holy Frideswide!
Little a man can know what shall betide.
This man is fallen, with his astromy,
Into some madness or some agony;
I always feared that somehow this would be!
Men should not meddle in God's privity.
Aye, blessed always be the ignorant man,
Whose creed is, all he ever has to scan!
So fared another clerk with astromy;
He walked into the meadows for to pry
Into the stars, to learn what should befall,
Until into a clay-pit he did fall;
He saw not that. But yet, by Saint Thomas,
I'm sorry for this clever Nicholas.
He shall be scolded for his studying,
If not too late, by Jesus, Heaven's King!
"Get me a staff, that I may pry before,
The while you, Robin, heave against the door.
We'll take him from this studying, I guess."
And on the chamber door, then, he did press.
His servant was a stout lad, if a dunce,
And by the hasp he heaved it up at once;
Upon the floor that portal fell anon.
This Nicholas sat there as still as stone,
Gazing, with gaping mouth, straight up in air.
This carpenter thought he was in despair,
And took him by the shoulders, mightily,
And shook him hard, and cried out, vehemently:
"What! Nicholay! Why how now! Come, look down!
Awake, and think on Jesus' death and crown!
I cross you from all elves and magic wights!"
And then the night-spell said he out, by rights,
At the four corners of the house about,
And at the threshold of the door, without:-
"O Jesus Christ and good Saint Benedict,
Protect this house from all that may afflict,
For the night hag the white Paternoster!-
Where hast thou gone, Saint Peter's sister?"
And at the last this clever Nicholas
Began to sigh full sore, and said: "Alas!
Shall all the world be lost so soon again?"
This carpenter replied: "What say you, then?
What! Think on God, as we do, men that swink."
This Nicholas replied: "Go fetch me drink;
And afterward I'll tell you privately
A certain thing concerning you and me;
I'll tell it to no other man or men."
This carpenter went down and came again,
And brought of potent ale a brimming quart;
And when each one of them had drunk his part,
Nicholas shut the door fast, and with that
He drew a seat and near the carpenter sat.
He said: "Now, John, my good host, lief and dear,
You must upon your true faith swear, right here,
That to no man will you this word betray;
For it is Christ's own word that I will say,
And if you tell a man, you're ruined quite;
This punishment shall come to you, of right,
That if you're traitor you'll go mad- and should!"
"Nay, Christ forbid it, for His holy blood!"
Said then this simple man: "I am no blab,
Nor, though I say it, am I fond of gab.
Say what you will, I never will it tell
To child or wife, by Him that harried Hell!"
"Now, John," said Nicholas, "I will not lie;
But I've found out, from my astrology,
As I have looked upon the moon so bright,
That now, come Monday next, at nine of night,
Shall fall a rain so wildly mad as would
Have been, by half, greater than Noah's flood.
This world," he said, "in less time than an hour,
Shall all be drowned, so terrible is this shower;
Thus shall all mankind drown and lose all life."
This carpenter replied: "Alas, my wife!
And shall she drown? Alas, my Alison!"
For grief of this he almost fell. Anon
He said: "Is there no remedy in this case?"
"Why yes, good luck," said clever Nicholas,
"If you will work by counsel of the wise;
You must not act on what your wits advise.
For so says Solomon, and it's all true,
'Work by advice and thou shalt never rue.'
And if you'll act as counselled and not fail,
I undertake, without a mast or sail,
To save us all, aye you and her and me.
Haven't you heard of, Noah, how saved was he,
Because Our Lord had warned him how to keep
Out of the flood that covered earth so deep?"
"Yes," said this carpenter, "long years ago."
"Have you not heard," asked Nicholas, "also
The sorrows of Noah and his fellowship
In getting his wife to go aboard the ship?
He would have rather, I dare undertake,
At that time, and for all the weather black,
That she had one ship for herself alone.
Therefore, do you know what would best be done?
This thing needs haste, and of a hasty thing
Men must not preach nor do long tarrying.
"Presently go, and fetch here to this inn
A kneading-tub, or brewing vat, and win
One each for us, but see that they are large,
Wherein we may swim out as in a barge,
And have therein sufficient food and drink
For one day only; that's enough, I think.
The water will dry up and flow away
About the prime of the succeeding day.
But Robin must not know of this, your knave,
And even Jill, your maid, I may not save;
Ask me not why, for though you do ask me,
I will not tell you of God's privity.
Suffice you, then, unless your wits are mad,
To have as great a grace as Noah had.
Your wife I shall not lose, there is no doubt,
Go, now, your way, and speedily about,
But when you have, for you and her and me,
Procured these kneading-tubs, or beer-vats, three,
Then you shall hang them near the roof-tree high,
That no man our purveyance may espy.
And when you thus have done, as I have said,
And have put in our drink and meat and bread,
Also an axe to cut the ropes in two
When the flood comes, that we may float and go,
And cut a hole, high up, upon the gable,
Upon the garden side, over the stable,
That we may freely pass forth on our way
When the great rain and flood are gone that day-
Then shall you float as merrily, I'll stake,
As does the white duck after the white drake.
Then I will call, 'Ho, Alison! Ho, John!
Be cheery, for the flood will pass anon.'
And you will say, 'Hail. Master Nicholay!
Good morrow, I see you well, for it is day!'
And then shall we be barons all our life
Of all the world, like Noah and his wife.
"But of one thing I warn you now, outright.
Be well advised, that on that very night
When we have reached our ships and got aboard,
Not one of us must speak or whisper word,
Nor call, nor cry, but sit in silent prayer;
For this is God's own bidding, hence- don't dare!
"Your wife and you must hang apart, that in
The night shall come no chance for you to sin
Either in looking or in carnal deed.
These orders I have told you, go, God speed!
Tomorrow night, when all men are asleep,
Into our kneading-tubs will we three creep
And sit there, still, awaiting God's high grace.
Go, now, your way, I have no longer space
Of time to make a longer sermoning.
Men say thus: 'Send the wise and say no thing.'
You are so wise it needs not that I teach;
Go, save our lives, and that I do beseech."
This silly carpenter went on his way.
Often he cried "Alas!" and "Welaway!"
And to his wife he told all, privately;
But she was better taught thereof than he
How all this rigmarole was to apply.
Nevertheless she acted as she'd die,
And said: "Alas! Go on your way anon,
help us escape, or we are lost, each one;
I am your true and lawfully wedded wife;
Go, my dear spouse, and help to save our life."
Lo, what a great thing is affection found!
Men die of imagination, I'll be bound,
So deep an imprint may the spirit take.
This hapless carpenter began to quake;
He thought now, verily, that he could see
Old Noah's flood come wallowing like the sea
To drown his Alison, his honey dear.
He wept, he wailed, he made but sorry cheer,
He sighed and made full many a sob and sough.
He went and got himself a kneading-trough
And, after that, two tubs he somewhere found
And to his dwelling privately sent round,
And hung them near the roof, all secretly.
With his own hand, then, made he ladders three,
To climb up by the rungs thereof, it seems,
And reach the tubs left hanging to the beams;
And those he victualled, tubs and kneading-trough,
With bread and cheese and good jugged ale, enough
To satisfy the needs of one full day.
But ere he'd put all this in such array,
He sent his servants, boy and maid, right down
Upon some errand into London town.
And on the Monday, when it came on night,
He shut his door, without a candle-light,
And ordered everything as it should be.
And shortly after up they climbed, all three;
They sat while one might plow a furlong-way.
"Now, by Our Father, hush!" said Nicholay,
And "Hush!" said John, and "Hush!" said Alison.
This carpenter, his loud devotions done,
Sat silent, saying mentally a prayer,
And waiting for the rain, to hear it there.
The deathlike sleep of utter weariness
Fell on this wood-wright even. (as I guess)
About the curfew time, or little more;
For travail of his spirit he groaned sore,
And soon he snored, for badly his head lay.
Down by the ladder crept this Nicholay,
And Alison, right softly down she sped.
Without more words they went and got in bed
Even where the carpenter was wont to lie.
There was the revel and the melody!
And thus lie Alison and Nicholas,
In joy that goes by many an alias,
Until the bells for lauds began to ring
And friars to the chancel went to sing.
This parish clerk, this amorous Absalom,
Whom love has made so woebegone and dumb,
Upon the Monday was down Osney way,
With company, to find some sport and play;
And there he chanced to ask a cloisterer,
Privately, after John the carpenter.
This monk drew him apart, out of the kirk,
And said: "I have not seen him here at work.
Since Saturday; I think well that he went
For timber, that the abbot has him sent;
For he is wont for timber thus to go,
Remaining at the grange a day or so;
Or else he's surely at his house today;
But which it is I cannot truly say."
This Absalom right happy was and light,
And thought: "Now is the time to wake all night;
For certainly I saw him not stirring
About his door since day began to spring.
So may I thrive, as I shall, at cock's crow,
Knock cautiously upon that window low
Which is so placed upon his bedroom wall.
To Alison then will I tell of all
My love-longing, and thus I shall not miss
That at the least I'll have her lips to kiss.
Some sort of comfort shall I have, I say,
My mouth's been itching all this livelong day;
That is a sign of kissing at the least.
All night I dreamed, too, I was at a feast.
Therefore I'll go and sleep two hours away
And all this night then will I wake and play."
And so when time of first cock-crow was come,
Up rose this merry lover, Absalom,
And dressed him gay and all at point-device,
But first he chewed some licorice and spice
So he'd smell sweet, ere he had combed his hair.
Under his tongue some bits of true-love rare,
For thereby thought he to be more gracious.
He went, then, to the carpenter's dark house.
And silent stood beneath the shot-window;
Unto his breast it reached, it was so low;
And he coughed softly, in a low half tone:
"What do you, honeycomb, sweet Alison?
My cinnamon, my fair bird, my sweetie,
Awake, O darling mine, and speak to me!
It's little thought you give me and my woe,
Who for your love do sweat where'er I go.
Yet it's no wonder that I faint and sweat;
I long as does the lamb for mother's teat.
Truly, sweetheart, I have such love-longing
That like a turtle-dove's my true yearning;
And I can eat no more than can a maid."
"Go from the window, Jack-a-napes," she said,
"For, s'help me God, it is not 'come kiss me.'
I love another, or to blame I'd be,
Better than you, by Jesus, Absalom!
Go on your way, or I'll stone you therefrom,
And let me sleep, the fiends take you away!"
"Alas," quoth Absalom, "and welaway!
That true love ever was so ill beset!
But kiss me, since you'll do no more, my pet,
For Jesus' love and for the love of me."
"And will you go, then, on your way?" asked she,
"Yes truly, darling," said this Absalom.
"Then make you ready," said she, "and I'll come!"
And unto Nicholas said she, low and still:
"Be silent now, and you shall laugh your fill."
This Absalom plumped down upon his knees,
And said: "I am a lord in all degrees;
For after this there may be better still
Darling, my sweetest bird, I wait your will."
The window she unbarred, and that in haste.
"Have done," said she, "come on, and do it fast,
Before we're seen by any neighbour's eye."
This Absalom did wipe his mouth all dry;
Dark was the night as pitch, aye dark as coal,
And through the window she put out her hole.
And Absalom no better felt nor worse,
But with his mouth he kissed her naked arse
Right greedily, before he knew of this.
Aback he leapt- it seemed somehow amiss,
For well he knew a woman has no beard;
He'd felt a thing all rough and longish haired,
And said, "Oh fie, alas! What did I do?"
"Teehee!" she laughed, and clapped the, window to;
And Absalom went forth a sorry pace.
"A beard! A beard!" cried clever Nicholas,
"Now by God's corpus, this goes fair and well!"
This hapless Absalom, he heard that yell,
And on his lip, for anger, he did bite;
And to himself he said, "I will requite!"
Who vigorously rubbed and scrubbed his lips
With dust, with sand, with straw, with cloth, with chips,
But Absalom, and often cried "Alas!
My soul I give now unto Sathanas,
For rather far than own this town," said he,
"For this despite, it's well revenged I'd be.
Alas," said he, "from her I never blenched!"
His hot love was grown cold, aye and all quenched;
For, from the moment that he'd kissed her arse,
For paramours he didn't care a curse,
For he was healed of all his malady;
Indeed all paramours he did defy,
And wept as does a child that has been beat.
With silent step he went across the street
Unto a smith whom men called Dan Jarvis,
Who in his smithy forged plow parts, that is
He sharpened shares and coulters busily.
This Absalom he knocked all easily,
And said: "Unbar here, Jarvis, for I come."
"What! Who are you?"
"It's I, it's Absalom."
"What! Absalom! For Jesus Christ's sweet tree,
Why are you up so early? Ben'cite!
What ails you now, man? Some gay girl, God knows,
Has brought you on the jump to my bellows;
By Saint Neot, you know well what I mean."
This Absalom cared not a single bean
For all this play, nor one word back he gave;
He'd more tow on his distaff, had this knave,
Than Jarvis knew, and said he: "Friend so dear,
This red-hot coulter in the fireplace here,
Lend it to me, I have a need for it,
And I'll return it after just a bit."
Jarvis replied: "Certainly, were it gold
Or a purse filled with yellow coins untold,
Yet should you have it, as I am true smith;
But eh, Christ's foe! What will you do therewith?"
"Let that," said Absalom, "be as it may;
I'll tell you all tomorrow, when it's day"-
And caught the coulter then by the cold steel
And softly from the smithy door did steal
And went again up to the wood-wright's wall.
He coughed at first, and then he knocked withal
Upon the window, as before, with care.
This Alison replied: "Now who is there?
And who knocks so? I'll warrant it's a thief."
"Why no," quoth he, "God knows, my sweet roseleaf,
I am your Absalom, my own darling!
Of gold," quoth he, "I have brought you a ring;
My mother gave it me, as I'll be saved;
Fine gold it is, and it is well engraved;
This will I give you for another kiss."
This Nicholas had risen for a piss,
And thought that it would carry on the jape
To have his arse kissed by this jack-a-nape.
And so he opened window hastily,
And put his arse out thereat, quietly,
Over the buttocks, showing the whole bum;
And thereto said this clerk, this Absalom,
"O speak, sweet bird, I know not where thou art."
This Nicholas just then let fly a fart
As loud as it had been a thunder-clap,
And well-nigh blinded Absalom, poor chap;
But he was ready with his iron hot
And Nicholas right in the arse he got.
Off went the skin a hand's-breadth broad, about,
The coulter burned his bottom so, throughout,
That for the pain he thought that he should die.
And like one mad he started in to cry,
"help ! Water! Water! For God's dear heart!"
This carpenter out of his sleep did start,
Hearing that "Water!" cried as madman would,
And thought, "Alas, now comes down Noel's flood!"
He struggled up without another word
And with his axe he cut in two the cord,
And down went all; he did not stop to trade
In bread or ale till he'd the journey made,
And there upon the floor he swooning lay.
Up started Alison and Nicholay
And shouted "help !" and "Hello!" down the street.
The neighbours, great and small, with hastening feet
Swarmed in the house to stare upon this man,
Who lay yet swooning, and all pale and wan;
For in the falling he had smashed his arm.
He had to suffer, too, another harm,
For when he spoke he was at once borne down
By clever Nicholas and Alison.
For they told everyone that he was odd;
He was so much afraid of "Noel's" flood,
Through fantasy, that out of vanity
He'd gone and bought these kneading-tubs, all three,
And that he'd hung them near the roof above;
And that he had prayed them, for God's dear love,
To sit with him and bear him company.
The people laughed at all this fantasy;
Up to the roof they looked, and there did gape,
And so turned all his injury to a jape.
For when this carpenter got in a word,
'Twas all in vain, no man his reasons heard;
With oaths imprenive he was so sworn down,
That he was held for mad by all the town;
For every clerk did side with every other.
They said: "The man is crazy, my dear brother."
And everyone did laugh at all this strife.
Thus futtered was the carpenter's goodwife,
For all his watching and his jealousy;
And Absalom has kissed her nether eye;
And Nicholas is branded on the butt.
This tale is done, and God save all the rout!

 
Of course, it's much more laborious -- and funnier! -- in the original Middle English....Geek


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: fs_tol
Date Posted: September 20 2007 at 23:24
 
LOL


-------------
http://www.imageshack.us/" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 21 2007 at 01:07
Originally posted by fs_tol fs_tol wrote:

 
LOL
 
LOL


Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: September 21 2007 at 09:46
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

That's all well and good, Fashionist, but I've heard it said (stop me if you've heard this one before) that
when the knight had thus his story told,
In all the rout there was nor young nor old
But said it was a noble story, well
Worthy to be kept in mind to tell;
...


I think I love you Peter. Now please give me the original version. That must have been the best 20-30 minutes of my week Big%20smileClapClap


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 24 2007 at 08:56
Originally posted by Passionist Passionist wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

That's all well and good, Fashionist, but I've heard it said (stop me if you've heard this one before) that
when the knight had thus his story told,
In all the rout there was nor young nor old
But said it was a noble story, well
Worthy to be kept in mind to tell;
...


I think I love you Peter. Now please give me the original version. That must have been the best 20-30 minutes of my week Big%20smileClapClap
Smile That was, of course, a modern translation of The Miller's Tale, from Geoffrey Chaucer's immortal, 1300s poetic epic "The Canterbury Tales." I have a huge volume of the original stuff (studied it at university), but as it's in Middle English, it can be quite a chore to read (but well worth the effort).
 
That story is so ribald (naughty) that it's amazing to think it dates from the ultra-Christian Middle Ages!
 
Glad you enjoyed it -- I never imagined someone might actually READ it! Clap


-------------
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 00:07
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Originally posted by Passionist, forthrightly Passionist, forthrightly wrote:

]Bullseye Lucent. That's the thing you see here more than often.Usually when someone really has something to say, I read it. It's the short pointless answers that I most often ignore. Pretty much because a constructive feedback or comment can't really be forced into 2 sentences with 5 smilies and a half page quote. I just don't think those are worth reading or contemplating. Though if someone posts a bit longer things, they're worth reading, they deserve it after all the work on it. And the same goes to cd/album reviews. I don't read, or I ignore all the short ones becase just saying song 1 good song 2 bad doesn't really help anyone, it jst gives the impression, that the writer never gave the cd a thought and just wants to have more reviews to get a higher status. I like long texts. I prefer writing them myself. I like to stress my point in the way that makes sense and makes people think. not in the "lol imo stoopid" way.
 Stern%20SmileThat's all well and good, Fashionist, but I've heard it said (stop me if you've heard this one before) that<FONT face=Verdana size=2>
<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">when the knight had thus his story told, In all the rout there was nor young nor old But said it was a noble story, well Worthy to be kept in mind to tell; And specially the gentle folk, each one. Our host, he laughed and swore, "So may I run, But this goes well; unbuckled is the mail; Let's see now who can tell another tale: For certainly the game is well begun. Now shall you tell, sir monk, if't can be done, Something with which to pay for the knight's tale." The miller, who with drinking was all pale, So that unsteadily on his horse he sat, He would not take off either hood or hat, Nor wait for any man, in courtesy, But all in Pilate's voice began to cry, And by the Arms and Blood and Bones he swore, "I have a noble story in my store, With which I will requite the good knight's tale." Our host saw, then, that he was drunk with ale, And said to him: "Wait, Robin, my dear brother, Some better man shall tell us first another: Submit and let us work on profitably." "Now by God's soul," cried he, "that will not I! For I will speak, or else I'll go my way." Our host replied: "Tell on, then, till doomsday! You are a fool, your wit is overcome." "Now hear me," said the miller, "all and some! But first I make a protestation round That I'm quite drunk, I know it by my sound: And therefore, if I slander or mis-say, Blame it on ale of Southwark, so I pray; For I will tell a legend and a life Both of a carpenter and of his wife, And how a scholar set the good wright's cap." The reeve replied and said: "Oh, shut your trap, Let be your ignorant drunken ribaldry! It is a sin, and further, great folly To asperse any man, or him defame, And, too, to bring upon a man's wife shame. There are enough of other things to say." This drunken miller spoke on in his way, And said: "Oh, but my dear brother Oswald, The man who has no wife is no cuckold. But I say not, thereby, that you are one: Many good wives there are, as women run, And ever a thousand good to one that's bad, As well you know yourself, unless you're mad. Why are you angry with my story's cue? I have a wife, begad, as well as you, Yet I'd not, for the oxen of my plow, Take on my shoulders more than is enow, By judging of myself that I am one; I will believe full well that I am none. A husband must not be inquisitive Of God, nor of his wife, while she's alive. So long as he may find God's plenty there, For all the rest he need not greatly care." What should I say, except this miller rare He would forgo his talk for no man there, But told his churlish tale in his own way: I think I'll here re-tell it, if I may. And therefore, every gentle soul, I pray That for God's love you'll hold not what I say Evilly meant, but that I must rehearse, All of their tales, the better and the worse, Or else prove false to some of my design. Therefore, who likes not this, let him, in fine, Turn over page and choose another tale: For he shall find enough, both great and small, Of stories touching on gentility, And holiness, and on morality; And blame not me if you do choose amiss. The miller was a churl, you well know this; So was the reeve, and many another more, And ribaldry they told from plenteous store. Be then advised, and hold me free from blame; Men should not be too serious at a game.

<FONT face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=2>THE MILLER'S TALE Once on a time was dwelling in Oxford A wealthy lout who took in guests to board, And of his craft he was a carpenter. A poor scholar was lodging with him there, Who'd learned the arts, but all his phantasy Was turned to study of astrology; And knew a certain set of theorems And could find out by various stratagems, If men but asked of him in certain hours When they should have a drought or else have showers, Or if men asked of him what should befall To anything- I cannot reckon them all. This clerk was called the clever Nicholas; Of secret loves he knew and their solace; And he kept counsel, too, for he was sly And meek as any maiden passing by. He had a chamber in that hostelry, And lived alone there, without company, All garnished with sweet herbs of good repute; And he himself sweet-smelling as the root Of licorice, valerian, or setwall. His Almagest, and books both great and small, His astrolabe, belonging to his art, His algorism stones- all laid apart On shelves that ranged beside his lone bed's head; His press was covered with a cloth of red. And over all there lay a psaltery Whereon he made an evening's melody, Playing so sweetly that the chamber rang; And Angelus ad virginem he sang; And after that he warbled the King's Note: Often in good voice was his merry throat. And thus this gentle clerk his leisure spends Supported by some income and his friends. This carpenter had lately wed a wife Whom lie loved better than he loved his life; And she was come to eighteen years of age. Jealous he was and held her close in cage. For she was wild and young, and he was old, And deemed himself as like to be cuckold. He knew not Cato, for his lore was rude: That vulgar man should wed similitude. A man should wed according to estate, For youth and age are often in debate. But now, since he had fallen in the snare, He must endure, like other folk, his care. Fair was this youthful wife, and therewithal As weasel's was her body slim and small. A girdle wore she, barred and striped, of silk. An apron, too, as white as morning milk About her loins, and full of many a gore; White was her smock, embroidered all before And even behind, her collar round about, Of coal-black silk, on both sides, in and out; The strings of the white cap upon her head Were, like her collar, black silk worked with thread, Her fillet was of wide silk worn full high: And certainly she had a lickerish eye. She'd thinned out carefully her eyebrows two, And they were arched and black as any sloe. She was a far more pleasant thing to see Than is the newly budded young pear-tree; And softer than the wool is on a wether. Down from her girdle hung a purse of leather, Tasselled with silk, with latten beading sown. In all this world, searching it up and down, So gay a little doll, I well believe, Or such a wench, there's no man can conceive. Far brighter was the brilliance of her hue Than in the Tower the gold coins minted new. And songs came shrilling from her pretty head As from a swallow's sitting on a shed. Therewith she'd dance too, and could play and sham Like any kid or calf about its dam. Her mouth was sweet as bragget or as mead Or hoard of apples laid in hay or weed. Skittish she was as is a pretty colt, Tall as a staff and straight as cross-bow bolt. A brooch she wore upon her collar low, As broad as boss of buckler did it show; Her shoes laced up to where a girl's legs thicken. She was a primrose, and a tender chicken For any lord to lay upon his bed, Or yet for any good yeoman to wed. Now, sir, and then, sir, go befell the case, That on a day this clever Nicholas Fell in with this young wife to toy and play, The while her husband was down Osney way, Clerks being as crafty as the best of us; And unperceived he caught her by the puss, Saying: "Indeed, unless I have my will, For secret love of you, sweetheart, I'll spill." And held her hard about the hips, and how! And said: "O darling, love me, love me now, Or I shall die, and pray you God may save!" And she leaped as a colt does in the trave, And with her head she twisted fast away, And said: "I will not kiss you, by my fay! Why, let go," cried she, "let go, Nicholas! Or I will call for help and cry 'alas!' Do take your hands away, for courtesy!" This Nicholas for mercy then did cry, And spoke so well, importuned her so fast That she her love did grant him at the last, And swore her oath, by Saint Thomas of Kent, That she would be at his command, content, As soon as opportunity she could spy. "My husband is so full of jealousy, Unless you will await me secretly, I know I'm just as good as dead," said she. "You must keep all quite hidden in this case." "Nay, thereof worry not," said Nicholas, "A clerk has lazily employed his while If he cannot a carpenter beguile." And thus they were agreed, and then they swore To wait a while, as I have said before. When Nicholas had done thus every whit And patted her about the loins a bit, He kissed her sweetly, took his psaltery, And played it fast and made a melody. Then fell it thus, that to the parish kirk, The Lord Christ Jesus' own works for to work, This good wife went, upon a holy day; Her forehead shone as bright as does the May, So well she'd washed it when she left off work. Now there was of that church a parish clerk Whose name was (as folk called him) Absalom. Curled was his hair, shining like gold, and from His head spread fanwise in a thick bright mop; 'Twas parted straight and even on the top; His cheek was red, his eyes grey as a goose; With Saint Paul's windows cut upon his shoes, He stood in red hose fitting famously. And he was clothed full well and properly All in a coat of blue, in which were let Holes for the lacings, which were fairly set. And over all he wore a fine surplice As white as ever hawthorn spray, and nice. A merry lad he was, so God me save, And well could he let blood, cut hair, and shave, And draw a deed or quitclaim, as might chance. In twenty manners could he trip and dance, After the school that reigned in Oxford, though, And with his two legs swinging to and fro; And he could play upon a violin; Thereto he sang in treble voice and thin; And as well could he play on his guitar. In all the town no inn was, and no bar, That he'd not visited to make good cheer, Especially were lively barmaids there. But, truth to tell, he was a bit squeamish Of farting and of language haughtyish. This Absalom, who was so light and gay, Went with a censer on the holy day, Censing the wives like an enthusiast; And on them many a loving look he cast, Especially on this carpenter's goodwife. To look at her he thought a merry life, She was so pretty, sweet, and lickerous. I dare well say, if she had been a mouse And he a cat, he would have mauled her some. This parish clerk, this lively Absalom Had in his heart, now, such a love-longing That from no wife took he an offering; For courtesy, he said, he would take none. The moon, when it was night, full brightly shone, And his guitar did Absalom then take, For in love-watching he'd intent to wake. And forth he went, jolly and amorous, Until he came unto the carpenter's house A little after cocks began to crow; And took his stand beneath a shot-window That was let into the good wood-wright's wall. He sang then, in his pleasant voice and small, "Oh now, dear lady, if your will it be, I pray that you will have some ruth on me," The words in harmony with his string-plucking. This carpenter awoke and heard him sing, And called unto his wife and said, in sum: "What, Alison! Do you hear Absalom, Who plays and sings beneath our bedroom wall?" And she said to her husband, therewithal: "Yes, God knows, John, I bear it, truth to tell." So this went on; what is there better than well? From day to day this pretty Absalom So wooed her he was woebegone therefrom. He lay awake all night and all the day; He combed his spreading hair and dressed him gay; By go-betweens and agents, too, wooed he, And swore her loyal page he'd ever be. He sang as tremulously as nightingale; He sent her sweetened wine and well-spiced ale And waffles piping hot out of the fire, And, she being town-bred, mead for her desire. For some are won by means of money spent, And some by tricks, and some by long descent. Once, to display his versatility, He acted Herod on a scaffold high. But what availed it him in any case? She was enamoured so of Nicholas That Absalom might go and blow his horn; He got naught for his labour but her scorn. And thus she made of Absalom her ape, And all his earnestness she made a jape. For truth is in this proverb, and no lie, Men say well thus: It's always he that's nigh That makes the absent lover seem a sloth. For now, though Absalom be wildly wroth, Because he is so far out of her sight, This handy Nicholas stands in his light. Now bear you well, you clever Nicholas! For Absalom may wail and sing "Alas!" And so it chanced that on a Saturday This carpenter departed to. Osney; And clever Nicholas and Alison Were well agreed to this effect: anon This Nicholas should put in play a wile The simple, jealous husband to beguile; And if it chanced the game should go a-right, She was to sleep within his arms all night, For this was his desire, and hers also. Presently then, and without more ado, This Nicholas, no longer did he tarry, But softly to his chamber did he carry Both food and drink to last at least a day, Saying that to her husband she should say- If he should come to ask for Nicholas- Why, she should say she knew not where he was, For all day she'd not seen him, far or nigh; She thought he must have got some malady, Because in vain her maid would knock and call; He'd answer not, whatever might befall. And so it was that all that Saturday This Nicholas quietly in chamber lay, And ate and slept, or did what pleased him best, Till Sunday when the sun had gone to rest. This simple man with wonder heard the tale, And marvelled what their Nicholas might ail, And said: "I am afraid, by Saint Thomas, That everything's not well with Nicholas. God send he be not dead so suddenly! This world is most unstable, certainly; I saw, today, the corpse being borne to kirk Of one who, but last Monday, was at work. Go up," said he unto his boy anon, "Call at his door, or knock there with a stone, Learn how it is and boldly come tell me." The servant went up, then, right sturdily, And at the chamber door, the while he stood, He cried and knocked as any madman would- "What! How! What do you, Master Nicholay? How can you sleep through all the livelong day?" But all for naught, he never heard a word; A hole he found, low down upon a board, Through which the house cat had been wont to creep; And to that hole he stooped, and through did peep, And finally he ranged him in his sight. This Nicholas sat gaping there, upright, As if he'd looked too long at the new moon. Downstairs he went and told his master soon In what array he'd found this self-same man. This carpenter to cross himself began, And said: "Now help us, holy Frideswide! Little a man can know what shall betide. This man is fallen, with his astromy, Into some madness or some agony; I always feared that somehow this would be! Men should not meddle in God's privity. Aye, blessed always be the ignorant man, Whose creed is, all he ever has to scan! So fared another clerk with astromy; He walked into the meadows for to pry Into the stars, to learn what should befall, Until into a clay-pit he did fall; He saw not that. But yet, by Saint Thomas, I'm sorry for this clever Nicholas. He shall be scolded for his studying, If not too late, by Jesus, Heaven's King! "Get me a staff, that I may pry before, The while you, Robin, heave against the door. We'll take him from this studying, I guess." And on the chamber door, then, he did press. His servant was a stout lad, if a dunce, And by the hasp he heaved it up at once; Upon the floor that portal fell anon. This Nicholas sat there as still as stone, Gazing, with gaping mouth, straight up in air. This carpenter thought he was in despair, And took him by the shoulders, mightily, And shook him hard, and cried out, vehemently: "What! Nicholay! Why how now! Come, look down! Awake, and think on Jesus' death and crown! I cross you from all elves and magic wights!" And then the night-spell said he out, by rights, At the four corners of the house about, And at the threshold of the door, without:- "O Jesus Christ and good Saint Benedict, Protect this house from all that may afflict, For the night hag the white Paternoster!- Where hast thou gone, Saint Peter's sister?" And at the last this clever Nicholas Began to sigh full sore, and said: "Alas! Shall all the world be lost so soon again?" This carpenter replied: "What say you, then? What! Think on God, as we do, men that swink." This Nicholas replied: "Go fetch me drink; And afterward I'll tell you privately A certain thing concerning you and me; I'll tell it to no other man or men." This carpenter went down and came again, And brought of potent ale a brimming quart; And when each one of them had drunk his part, Nicholas shut the door fast, and with that He drew a seat and near the carpenter sat. He said: "Now, John, my good host, lief and dear, You must upon your true faith swear, right here, That to no man will you this word betray; For it is Christ's own word that I will say, And if you tell a man, you're ruined quite; This punishment shall come to you, of right, That if you're traitor you'll go mad- and should!" "Nay, Christ forbid it, for His holy blood!" Said then this simple man: "I am no blab, Nor, though I say it, am I fond of gab. Say what you will, I never will it tell To child or wife, by Him that harried Hell!" "Now, John," said Nicholas, "I will not lie; But I've found out, from my astrology, As I have looked upon the moon so bright, That now, come Monday next, at nine of night, Shall fall a rain so wildly mad as would Have been, by half, greater than Noah's flood. This world," he said, "in less time than an hour, Shall all be drowned, so terrible is this shower; Thus shall all mankind drown and lose all life." This carpenter replied: "Alas, my wife! And shall she drown? Alas, my Alison!" For grief of this he almost fell. Anon He said: "Is there no remedy in this case?" "Why yes, good luck," said clever Nicholas, "If you will work by counsel of the wise; You must not act on what your wits advise. For so says Solomon, and it's all true, 'Work by advice and thou shalt never rue.' And if you'll act as counselled and not fail, I undertake, without a mast or sail, To save us all, aye you and her and me. Haven't you heard of, Noah, how saved was he, Because Our Lord had warned him how to keep Out of the flood that covered earth so deep?" "Yes," said this carpenter, "long years ago." "Have you not heard," asked Nicholas, "also The sorrows of Noah and his fellowship In getting his wife to go aboard the ship? He would have rather, I dare undertake, At that time, and for all the weather black, That she had one ship for herself alone. Therefore, do you know what would best be done? This thing needs haste, and of a hasty thing Men must not preach nor do long tarrying. "Presently go, and fetch here to this inn A kneading-tub, or brewing vat, and win One each for us, but see that they are large, Wherein we may swim out as in a barge, And have therein sufficient food and drink For one day only; that's enough, I think. The water will dry up and flow away About the prime of the succeeding day. But Robin must not know of this, your knave, And even Jill, your maid, I may not save; Ask me not why, for though you do ask me, I will not tell you of God's privity. Suffice you, then, unless your wits are mad, To have as great a grace as Noah had. Your wife I shall not lose, there is no doubt, Go, now, your way, and speedily about, But when you have, for you and her and me, Procured these kneading-tubs, or beer-vats, three, Then you shall hang them near the roof-tree high, That no man our purveyance may espy. And when you thus have done, as I have said, And have put in our drink and meat and bread, Also an axe to cut the ropes in two When the flood comes, that we may float and go, And cut a hole, high up, upon the gable, Upon the garden side, over the stable, That we may freely pass forth on our way When the great rain and flood are gone that day- Then shall you float as merrily, I'll stake, As does the white duck after the white drake. Then I will call, 'Ho, Alison! Ho, John! Be cheery, for the flood will pass anon.' And you will say, 'Hail. Master Nicholay! Good morrow, I see you well, for it is day!' And then shall we be barons all our life Of all the world, like Noah and his wife. "But of one thing I warn you now, outright. Be well advised, that on that very night When we have reached our ships and got aboard, Not one of us must speak or whisper word, Nor call, nor cry, but sit in silent prayer; For this is God's own bidding, hence- don't dare! "Your wife and you must hang apart, that in The night shall come no chance for you to sin Either in looking or in carnal deed. These orders I have told you, go, God speed! Tomorrow night, when all men are asleep, Into our kneading-tubs will we three creep And sit there, still, awaiting God's high grace. Go, now, your way, I have no longer space Of time to make a longer sermoning. Men say thus: 'Send the wise and say no thing.' You are so wise it needs not that I teach; Go, save our lives, and that I do beseech." This silly carpenter went on his way. Often he cried "Alas!" and "Welaway!" And to his wife he told all, privately; But she was better taught thereof than he How all this rigmarole was to apply. Nevertheless she acted as she'd die, And said: "Alas! Go on your way anon, help us escape, or we are lost, each one; I am your true and lawfully wedded wife; Go, my dear spouse, and help to save our life." Lo, what a great thing is affection found! Men die of imagination, I'll be bound, So deep an imprint may the spirit take. This hapless carpenter began to quake; He thought now, verily, that he could see Old Noah's flood come wallowing like the sea To drown his Alison, his honey dear. He wept, he wailed, he made but sorry cheer, He sighed and made full many a sob and sough. He went and got himself a kneading-trough And, after that, two tubs he somewhere found And to his dwelling privately sent round, And hung them near the roof, all secretly. With his own hand, then, made he ladders three, To climb up by the rungs thereof, it seems, And reach the tubs left hanging to the beams; And those he victualled, tubs and kneading-trough, With bread and cheese and good jugged ale, enough To satisfy the needs of one full day. But ere he'd put all this in such array, He sent his servants, boy and maid, right down Upon some errand into London town. And on the Monday, when it came on night, He shut his door, without a candle-light, And ordered everything as it should be. And shortly after up they climbed, all three; They sat while one might plow a furlong-way. "Now, by Our Father, hush!" said Nicholay, And "Hush!" said John, and "Hush!" said Alison. This carpenter, his loud devotions done, Sat silent, saying mentally a prayer, And waiting for the rain, to hear it there. The deathlike sleep of utter weariness Fell on this wood-wright even. (as I guess) About the curfew time, or little more; For travail of his spirit he groaned sore, And soon he snored, for badly his head lay. Down by the ladder crept this Nicholay, And Alison, right softly down she sped. Without more words they went and got in bed Even where the carpenter was wont to lie. There was the revel and the melody! And thus lie Alison and Nicholas, In joy that goes by many an alias, Until the bells for lauds began to ring And friars to the chancel went to sing. This parish clerk, this amorous Absalom, Whom love has made so woebegone and dumb, Upon the Monday was down Osney way, With company, to find some sport and play; And there he chanced to ask a cloisterer, Privately, after John the carpenter. This monk drew him apart, out of the kirk, And said: "I have not seen him here at work. Since Saturday; I think well that he went For timber, that the abbot has him sent; For he is wont for timber thus to go, Remaining at the grange a day or so; Or else he's surely at his house today; But which it is I cannot truly say." This Absalom right happy was and light, And thought: "Now is the time to wake all night; For certainly I saw him not stirring About his door since day began to spring. So may I thrive, as I shall, at cock's crow, Knock cautiously upon that window low Which is so placed upon his bedroom wall. To Alison then will I tell of all My love-longing, and thus I shall not miss That at the least I'll have her lips to kiss. Some sort of comfort shall I have, I say, My mouth's been itching all this livelong day; That is a sign of kissing at the least. All night I dreamed, too, I was at a feast. Therefore I'll go and sleep two hours away And all this night then will I wake and play." And so when time of first cock-crow was come, Up rose this merry lover, Absalom, And dressed him gay and all at point-device, But first he chewed some licorice and spice So he'd smell sweet, ere he had combed his hair. Under his tongue some bits of true-love rare, For thereby thought he to be more gracious. He went, then, to the carpenter's dark house. And silent stood beneath the shot-window; Unto his breast it reached, it was so low; And he coughed softly, in a low half tone: "What do you, honeycomb, sweet Alison? My cinnamon, my fair bird, my sweetie, Awake, O darling mine, and speak to me! It's little thought you give me and my woe, Who for your love do sweat where'er I go. Yet it's no wonder that I faint and sweat; I long as does the lamb for mother's teat. Truly, sweetheart, I have such love-longing That like a turtle-dove's my true yearning; And I can eat no more than can a maid." "Go from the window, Jack-a-napes," she said, "For, s'help me God, it is not 'come kiss me.' I love another, or to blame I'd be, Better than you, by Jesus, Absalom! Go on your way, or I'll stone you therefrom, And let me sleep, the fiends take you away!" "Alas," quoth Absalom, "and welaway! That true love ever was so ill beset! But kiss me, since you'll do no more, my pet, For Jesus' love and for the love of me." "And will you go, then, on your way?" asked she, "Yes truly, darling," said this Absalom. "Then make you ready," said she, "and I'll come!" And unto Nicholas said she, low and still: "Be silent now, and you shall laugh your fill." This Absalom plumped down upon his knees, And said: "I am a lord in all degrees; For after this there may be better still Darling, my sweetest bird, I wait your will." The window she unbarred, and that in haste. "Have done," said she, "come on, and do it fast, Before we're seen by any neighbour's eye." This Absalom did wipe his mouth all dry; Dark was the night as pitch, aye dark as coal, And through the window she put out her hole. And Absalom no better felt nor worse, But with his mouth he kissed her naked arse Right greedily, before he knew of this. Aback he leapt- it seemed somehow amiss, For well he knew a woman has no beard; He'd felt a thing all rough and longish haired, And said, "Oh fie, alas! What did I do?" "Teehee!" she laughed, and clapped the, window to; And Absalom went forth a sorry pace. "A beard! A beard!" cried clever Nicholas, "Now by God's corpus, this goes fair and well!" This hapless Absalom, he heard that yell, And on his lip, for anger, he did bite; And to himself he said, "I will requite!" Who vigorously rubbed and scrubbed his lips With dust, with sand, with straw, with cloth, with chips, But Absalom, and often cried "Alas! My soul I give now unto Sathanas, For rather far than own this town," said he, "For this despite, it's well revenged I'd be. Alas," said he, "from her I never blenched!" His hot love was grown cold, aye and all quenched; For, from the moment that he'd kissed her arse, For paramours he didn't care a curse, For he was healed of all his malady; Indeed all paramours he did defy, And wept as does a child that has been beat. With silent step he went across the street Unto a smith whom men called Dan Jarvis, Who in his smithy forged plow parts, that is He sharpened shares and coulters busily. This Absalom he knocked all easily, And said: "Unbar here, Jarvis, for I come." "What! Who are you?" "It's I, it's Absalom." "What! Absalom! For Jesus Christ's sweet tree, Why are you up so early? Ben'cite! What ails you now, man? Some gay girl, God knows, Has brought you on the jump to my bellows; By Saint Neot, you know well what I mean." This Absalom cared not a single bean For all this play, nor one word back he gave; He'd more tow on his distaff, had this knave, Than Jarvis knew, and said he: "Friend so dear, This red-hot coulter in the fireplace here, Lend it to me, I have a need for it, And I'll return it after just a bit." Jarvis replied: "Certainly, were it gold Or a purse filled with yellow coins untold, Yet should you have it, as I am true smith; But eh, Christ's foe! What will you do therewith?" "Let that," said Absalom, "be as it may; I'll tell you all tomorrow, when it's day"- And caught the coulter then by the cold steel And softly from the smithy door did steal And went again up to the wood-wright's wall. He coughed at first, and then he knocked withal Upon the window, as before, with care. This Alison replied: "Now who is there? And who knocks so? I'll warrant it's a thief." "Why no," quoth he, "God knows, my sweet roseleaf, I am your Absalom, my own darling! Of gold," quoth he, "I have brought you a ring; My mother gave it me, as I'll be saved; Fine gold it is, and it is well engraved; This will I give you for another kiss." This Nicholas had risen for a piss, And thought that it would carry on the jape To have his arse kissed by this jack-a-nape. And so he opened window hastily, And put his arse out thereat, quietly, Over the buttocks, showing the whole bum; And thereto said this clerk, this Absalom, "O speak, sweet bird, I know not where thou art." This Nicholas just then let fly a fart As loud as it had been a thunder-clap, And well-nigh blinded Absalom, poor chap; But he was ready with his iron hot And Nicholas right in the arse he got. Off went the skin a hand's-breadth broad, about, The coulter burned his bottom so, throughout, That for the pain he thought that he should die. And like one mad he started in to cry, "help ! Water! Water! For God's dear heart!" This carpenter out of his sleep did start, Hearing that "Water!" cried as madman would, And thought, "Alas, now comes down Noel's flood!" He struggled up without another word And with his axe he cut in two the cord, And down went all; he did not stop to trade In bread or ale till he'd the journey made, And there upon the floor he swooning lay. Up started Alison and Nicholay And shouted "help !" and "Hello!" down the street. The neighbours, great and small, with hastening feet Swarmed in the house to stare upon this man, Who lay yet swooning, and all pale and wan; For in the falling he had smashed his arm. He had to suffer, too, another harm, For when he spoke he was at once borne down By clever Nicholas and Alison. For they told everyone that he was odd; He was so much afraid of "Noel's" flood, Through fantasy, that out of vanity He'd gone and bought these kneading-tubs, all three, And that he'd hung them near the roof above; And that he had prayed them, for God's dear love, To sit with him and bear him company. The people laughed at all this fantasy; Up to the roof they looked, and there did gape, And so turned all his injury to a jape. For when this carpenter got in a word, 'Twas all in vain, no man his reasons heard; With oaths imprenive he was so sworn down, That he was held for mad by all the town; For every clerk did side with every other. They said: "The man is crazy, my dear brother." And everyone did laugh at all this strife. Thus futtered was the carpenter's goodwife, For all his watching and his jealousy; And Absalom has kissed her nether eye; And Nicholas is branded on the butt. This tale is done, and God save all the rout!


 

Of course, it's much more laborious -- and funnier! -- in the original Middle English....Geek


Quote


Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 15:43
there should be another option; read it even though you don't care



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd. - http://www.webwiz.co.uk