Ginger Baker
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41359
Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 19:57
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Topic: Ginger Baker
Posted By: zachfive
Subject: Ginger Baker
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 13:56
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Ginger Baker is the drummer of Cream, and he doesn't seem to get much talk around here. After watching his "Toad" performance( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVqvNKsPKUM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVqvNKsPKUM ) I thought that I'd see what others think of him. p.s- I didn't do much searching around the site to see if he's been talked about so sorry if this is old news or whatever. |
Replies:
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 14:02
| Yes he is a good drummer. That's all I have to say... |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 15:12
| I think he was the first drummer to use double kick drums actually. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 18:44
 I'm confused. I mean I understand people like who they like, no problem but IMO Genger Baker is regular at best. I went to a concert in NYC in the mid 70s where Ginger Baker's Air Force was headlining (I went for the opening act) and it's the only concert I ever stood up and walk out on. It was that brutal. I wonder what Baker fans say about real drummers like Billy Cobham or Lenny White?
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 04:06
You might be mistaken with the dates here: Ginger Baker's Airforce was alive between 70 & 72, by the mid 70's even his next group BGA was anything but over.
Baker was not only one of the most pioneering drummer (in some Cream songs he doesn't even touich that snare drums, he used double bass drums, etc...), but was also a pioneer in world music in the mid-70's>> this was almost a decade before Gabriel WOMAD. The man was a pure jazz musician that dared moving away completely from standards.
His tenure in Baker Gurvtiz Army should make this thread in the main prog lounge too.
As Jack Bruce once said: Cream was a jazz group, we just didn't tell Eric! (Clapton)!
 And Bruce and Baker hated each other, so this must be seen as a compliment. Jack Bruce's solo career merits inclusion in the database as well (itf it isn't already)
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
dwill123 wrote:Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 05:11
| He was good on Blind faith. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 05:15
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Baker is a 'real' drummer, IMHO. Unfortunately him and Jack Bruce are still at loggerheads, after the Cream reunion soured! I recently read a particularly savage quote from Jack Bruce about his feelings towards Ginger, here's the article: http://www.undercover.com.au/News-Story.aspx?id=2093 - http://www.undercover.com.au/News-Story.aspx?id=2093
I have heard some of his earlier solo work but not his later stuff. I have the first Airforce album and it has lots of very long drum solos all over the place. One has to be in mood for it, really. Definitely has its moments, though.
Baker Gurvitz Army were depressingly average, IMHO. Very run-of-the-mill rock without much to elevate them above others in the field.
I also had Ginger's 1977 album 'Two Sides Of Ginger Baker'. Another poor effort, really, despite the guest list on it.
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 07:49
Along with Keith Moon, Baker was one of the two drummers in the late 60's that sounded different , immediately identifiable and special from the rest of the run of the mill drummers. There are only a handful of drum solos I can take nowadays, the Wheels Of Fire's Toad being one of three. Baker is most certainly a jazz drummer, often citing Phil Seamen as his mentor. BGA was similar to Bruce's cashing in (i.e with West Bruce & Laing) and not letting go of something that had effectively died in the late 60's. However, in between breeding polo ponies, running a cement transport company across the Sahara and encourage African drummers, Baker has remained a major player to my ear. The 80's and 90's recordings,which seemed to have passed too many people by, are well worth checking out,. For example Unseen Rain with Jonas Hellborg (and Baker recipocated on at least one Hellborg album) and Jens Johansson, and the three Ginger Baker straight jazzalbums, Falling Off The Roof, Going Back Home, Coward Of The County - and you don't get Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden playing with you for two of those albums, is you're a shabby drummer. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 07:59
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I remember seeing some "behind the music" show on Cream, and Ginger appeared absolutely, for lack of a better term, "out of it". Incoherent, hazy memory and vacant expression on his face while Eric and Jack were completely normal in comparison. Maybe there's something going on with him and that's why they can't patch things up.
Great drummer though...Great band infact.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 11:01
let's not forget that Baker was roughly a decade older than Bruce and Clapton.
And Baker and Clapton were getting along fine, while the relations between Bruce and Clapton were also very tense.
So most liklely the odd character (as in ego) was Bruce
Legend has it that they were always hiking up their amp to play louder than the others:
Once Clapton and Baker stopped playing during concert, and Bruce kept for a few minutes, not even realizing the other two had stopped, coz he was so loud, he couldn't even hear the other two stopping. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: September 05 2007 at 17:03
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Am I the only one here thinking "HAWKWIND" ? OK, Ginger was their drummer for only one album/tour, but that surely gives him prog-cred? ------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 03:15
Baker fitted into Hawkwind as well as Vai fitted into Whitesnake 
I have to join the 'unconvinced' camp on this one - I'm well aware of his solo on 'Toad' from 'Wheels Of Fire' & whilst it's definitely a good solo, I don't find it special at all. There's also no doubt that he played a large part in getting African music heard in the West during the 1970s & thus (as Hughes stated) predated WOMAD/Gabriel by about 10 years.... .... but (and this is shallow, I know) I cannot get over the man's high opinion of himself... ...or the fact he looks like Albert Steptoe:   ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 03:53
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Well I for one refuse to judge a drummer by the drum solos. This is really not a criteria as far as I am concerned! ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 11:58
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Didn't Baker try to draft Jack Bruce into Hawkwind, and after that suggestion didn't exactly go down well, even go on the road with the keyboard player and call that Hawkwind??
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 12:27
only in rock music with Keith Moon,i think some jazz guys were using them in the 40's.
I do like Ginger but i only know him well through Blindfaith and Cream,So with the reunion article was this was after their farewell tour?It would be quite intresting to watch the dvd again and see if theres akwardness much like live 8 with Floyd.
P.s Gingers awesome! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 12:51
I think it was actually Louis Bellson.
 ------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 15:35
| I like Ginger Bakers playing although naturally there are more technically superior players out there. His Jazz influences shine through the way he bounces around his kit even when he's playing a straight forward Rock song. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 07:48
There is a tremendous love-hate relationship between Bruce and Baker - love of each other's musical abilities and a gradual growing dislike of each other when working together. TIme after time you find them coming back together, having started in Graham Bond's Organisation (essentially a group of young jazz musicians playing R'n'B - with Dick Heckstall-Smith and John McLaughlin passing through their ranks), in the mid 60's, you have Cream (but that experience seemed to sour their relationship until Bruce invited Baker onto his album A Question Of Time (my favourite Holdsworth solo sits on that album - in fact Holdsworth backed by the Cream rhythm section on Obsession), then Baker was invited to appear in Bruce 50th birthday bash, which subsequently appeared on the double CD set Cities Of The Heart , sharing drum duties with Simon Phillips and Gary Husband. Then of course the Cream reunion - the DVD does indicate the three 'protagonists' quite at ease with one another and in fact appearing to enjoy each other's company and music. However, Baker is in print suggesting the sourness returned when Bruce started bossing things around later in the States. So perhaps it is less surprising Baker and Bruce, attempted to set up other projects together between Cream 1 and Cream 2. A old friend who played bass for a Middlebrough band Penetration, reckoned he saw Cream the first time round in the late 60's and claims Bruce actually hit Baker with his bass guitar during an argument.............................. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 07:54
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Just a passing thought. I'm sure when Cream collapsed the first time round, Eric Clapton in attempting to escape the rows and fights, co-founded Blind Faith. Apparently he had not considered Ginger Baker for the drums, being one of the causes of Cream's in-fighting. However, Baker was pushy enough to overcome Clapton's wants and got the job. If this is true, I wonder who else had been considered for the drums?
------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 08:12
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Levitation by Hawkwind (with Baker on drums) is a fantastic album. The drumming is so much better than on the albums that followed (Sonic Attack, Choose Your Masques). ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: September 08 2007 at 00:23
| I enjoy his very sloppy style. He has a unique style, although on Disraeli Gears his drums sounded kind of bad. Sounded like his heads were a bit too loose. |