Affinity for Reviewers
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41334
Printed Date: February 22 2025 at 13:21
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Affinity for Reviewers
Posted By: emdiar
Subject: Affinity for Reviewers
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 11:02
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Once upon a time, long long ago, a thread was started (I know not by whom) which posed the question, "Does a review influence your opinion", to which I replied, "Yes, but only of the reviewer."
With this in mind, and recognising that tastes vary hugely between site members, which (fellow?) reviewer seems to be most "on the same page" as yourself? For me personally, I have to say Blacksword.
Sure, he only gave Green (Hillage) 4 stars, when it's a blatant 5 star album, and "Script" got half a star too many for my taste, but on the whole, I feel a definite affinity, prog-wise.
Peter is also way up there, plus, I like his style, and appreciation of folk.
I don't want to know who you consider a tasteless heretic, only who you regard as a person of sound musical judgement.
em. ------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Replies:
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 11:07
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Syzygy and Hugues are my sanity test and they're wonderfully merciless with their five star ratings. If either of them give a good review to an album I hadn't heard I'd be quicker to go look for it. Yukorin and Rocktopus are neato, too, but they mostly just rate. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 11:18
| There's this one guy on here, I don't see him often, but his reviews express exactly my feelings. Shakey? Shaxpoo? Something like that.... |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 11:18
You wouldn't be referring to me, by any chance? |
Shakespeare wrote:Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 11:22
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Sean and I are of one mind on many bands, but as I told him last week, Gryphon's "Gryphon" is worth 3 stars of anybody's money, (I'd give it 4!) ------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 11:34
I'm very flattered to be named in your kind post, Emdiar  (you and I often seem to be in accord on non-musical matters, as well), but the shameful truth is that I have not read any reviews on the site for quite some time. This is a reflection of my not having written any reviews for a long time. When I am writing, I like to see what my fellow Collabs have thought of the album I'm either about to review, or just did review. I find that helpful and interesting.I also used to read reviews out of interest, not so much to look for new music (though I've done that a few times), as to see what others think of albums I already own. Re any "affinity" in tastes with another reviewer, I often found that Maani and I were "on the same page," as were Bob (Easy Livin) and I. Their reviews were/are always well-written, as well.  In general, though, there are many very good reviewers here (too many for me to keep track of, on an individual basis), and I have found myself in agreement with many over the years. I plan to get back into reviewing soon (when settled in the new school year -- perhaps within a month or so), so no doubt I'll be reading reviews again then!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 11:55
| It's about time Peter, we need more of your fine reviews! |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 12:14
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There is not a single individual reviewer that I look at, but depending on category or genre, I often check out reviews by Sean Trane, Dick Heath, Erik Neuteboom (because of their experience) and The T (for his sanity checks) to get an initial ide about of an album that I want to hear or buy. And of course, ClemOfNazareth's reviews are a good read to get insight in how a piece of music people's touches feelings.
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 12:58
I like Peter's reviews quite a bit too. I don't always agree with Hughes, but there are always insights that help with an album. Ivan and I are very likely to be of a similar opinion (big surprise  ). Clem's reviews are always very useful, and well written. I also may not always agree with Atavachron, but his reviews are great to read. I have found Guigo to be a great source for things I will probably like.------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Pafnutij
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 15:13
| I've always liked Certif1ed's reviews (Is he still around?). I doubt they influenced me directly, but over the last couple of years I've seen my views and tastes in music shift in a somewhat similar direction. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 15:18
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Gosh I like so many of the regulars I couldn't pick but one. And I'll buy music from anyone's suggestion if they've made a decent case and the music "feels" appealing to me.
------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 16:09
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I like prog jesters review's and jareyays, they are not just reviews about what chords are played and how technical it gets, they're more about how enjoyable and challenging the music is!
speaking of reviewing...
guess who has thirty and is up for debate for reviewer status!
(hint: flitzoid can) ------------- 
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Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 16:12
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THE 34th Bench Turn Flitzoid Can? ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 16:16
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nooooooooooo...
try again... -------------
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Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 17:06
 , Cert, how could I forget. A Big Up for a Here&Now fan is always in order.------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: September 01 2007 at 17:18
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I believe that no one can never be in affinity with my thoughs, but the closest reviewer would be Sean Trane. From the albums we've heard in common, the only one which I disagree is his five stars to Traffic's Shoot out at the fantasy factory. But the rest, overall when it comes to the top ten bands, our ratings are practically the same.
------------- The best you can is good enough... |
Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 12:08
Hi Peter, yes, we do have a similar outlook on many a topic. Like you, I find reviews on albums with which I am already familiar to be the most interesting. That's how I am able to judge you, Blacksword and Certif1ed to be among my most kindred spirits. That is in no way a comment on the rest, as I find common ground with many reviewers (we are all progheads after all).
I have yet to "review" an album, though I've written many an opinionated post on bands and their output. Reviews are, of course, very subjective by nature, but that makes them fun. I'm sometimes quite self conscious about voicing my opinions on certain bands, in case it gives the wrong impression. For example, It Bites are one of my favourite 80s prog acts, but I can't explain why. Their sound is WAY too poppy and 80s for my (sometimes) quite conservative proghole tastes, yet I find it to be more 'honest' than most of the neoprog acts earlier in that decade. Does that make sense? I can quite understand why many see them as a pop act with flash muso affectations, but when I saw them play tiny club venues, every tricky time sig and Holdsworth-esque guitar lick was...well...music to my ears, starved as they were for decent sounds in those prog-baron years. If I had discovered them for the first time today I'd most likely not even give them a second listening. I shouldn't care what others think really, but there it is.
I look forward to your first Roy Harper review with bated breath  .------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 12:11
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Surely Bob, despite that I don't have the same musical tastes, I like his type of writting. ------------- 
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Posted By: asimplemistake
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 12:16
| I'd say Shakespeare has pretty similar tastes to mine, and I like his reviews. Umm thats the only person at the moment I can think of with similar tastes (even though theres a bunch out there). |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 12:16
Hi yourself, Emdy!
 I really must get an It Bites album one day (I really like the two tracks I've heard from the band). Where to start, pal  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 12:53
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^^ Pete, you should definitely start with "Once Around the World". Did you check out my youtube link? Most entertaining. Here it is again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AveJxs_TmY&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AveJxs_TmY&mode=related&search =
Avoid "Best Of" compilations as they usually consist of "single" versions, which, as we all know, are usually mercilessly edited of their instrumental passages. (read "best bits".)
(ps. See what I mean by "Holdsworth-esque"?) ------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: September 02 2007 at 23:36
 Wow! that was great -- thanks, M! I didn't expect those jazzy inflections from such a youthful band, which I had thought of as "pop prog." Great guitarist, for sure!   Once Around the World it is, then -- hopefully Amazon.ca will be more forthcoming than they were with IQ....------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 00:29
I spent yesterday evening reading many reviews by Easy Livin. I'm not always entirely on the same page with him, but I always like (well, envy) his style of writing and constructing the reviews. Just the perfect lenght for my attention span and always thorough and interesting. Respect for Easy Livin 
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 03:46
Wow, lotsa kind words (thanks MDR) again! 
I agree that some reviewers are very helpful not only before buying the albums, but in the case of RIO, in helping out understanding the music as well. In this regard, I think my buddy Chris/SYZYGY is the most helpful! He's given me the keys to understand more than a few RIO albums, and I'm only glad I could return the favour once in a while.
I'm only naming one pêrson, because in previous thread I always forgot someone, and had to post a second time. But those I haven't named, I think they've got an idea who they are. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 12:30
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I don't have a specific reveiwer who wows me. I usually scroll down past the official reviewers and read only the guest reviewers who have written well thought out reviews.
Honest reviews done by normal people.
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Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 13:14
I agree with everyone that Easy Livin's reviews are always a great read, and I often agree with him wholeheartedly........However,....when you reviewed Angels Egg, Bob, you must have been listening to an entirely different album than the one filling the space between Flying Teapot and You on my vinyl shelf.    .------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 13:29
that's a weird impression, what do you mean by "normal people" and by "guest reviewers"?  the people who haven't been promoted or awarded as "prog reviewers" aren't..."guest reviewers"! ------------- 
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 03 2007 at 13:33
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For my share, I can suitably answer (cause this topic's question remains "with which reviewer do you associate very much, regarding your preferences of prog music", not "which reviewer do you like") that I find myself having quite common views about certain albums with, guess what, drain-o's ratings!! In at least 70% of cases, drain-o has rated an album exactly the same amount of stars I myself would rate that album! I know it's a big difference between rating and reviewing, but that's the case. Of course, we start having much too different opinions regarding Klaus Schulze  -------------
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 04 2007 at 04:22
I just can't figure out why this album (Shootout) isn't getting the same respect as Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys. Unlike Low Spârks, It has no weak tracks (like Light Up Or Leave MLe Alone) and has just as many fantastic moments. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: September 04 2007 at 09:39
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Most of the times I check out Sean Trane's reviews. Even if I don't always agree, I always value his opinion very highly. I also like Easy Livin's reviews a lot. And as it comes to Italian prog, I bought almost any Italian prog record that I own because of Erik Neuteboom's reviews, as well as some others.
I like Greenback's reviews as well.
Well, they're my faves.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 04 2007 at 10:55
Marcel, if you keep this up, I'll be forced to move to Antwerp, becaiuse my neck is growing in size ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: September 04 2007 at 12:37
Like Ricochet, I don't get this comment. Why are collaborators somehow less 'normal' than guest reviewers? I'm the complete opposite anyway; I tend to find myself trusting the reviews of long-standing collaborators more than the vast majority of guest reviewers. But that's not to belittle them all; I've read some damned good ones by non-collabs as well (The Whistler and progismylife to name a few).
I've been a fan of Easy Livin's reviews for a while and always look forward to reading them. He's the reviewer I probably identify the most with in terms of correlation with my own reviews, but there are of course differences (I love early Soft Machine for example, yet anybody who saw my earlier 3 star review of 'Fourth' will probably realise that album's where my enthusiasm for them almost dies...it picks up a bit on later albums, though).
It Bites are a band I have never delved into fully, really. One thing that always mystifies me is that there actually a significant number of people here who don't tend to like neo prog very much but really love It Bites, who in my experience are more poppy than most of the neo bands anyway. But I shall check out the said album at some point...
I have a lot of respect for Hugues many, many reviews but there are a lot of musical differences (I love some neo prog, almost all of Camel's albums and BJH).
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: September 05 2007 at 10:14
| In addition, I must add Febus to the list of reviewers I feel an affinity with; I agree with him absolutely on the aforementioned Soft Machine albums. He's just reviewed their fourth album and we're on the same page; I gave it 3 stars but I was rather generous. Febus gave it 2. IMHO, that album was a massive step back for the band. |
Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 05 2007 at 23:37
Like Ricochet, I don't get this comment. Why are collaborators somehow less 'normal' than guest reviewers? I'm the complete opposite anyway; I tend to find myself trusting the reviews of long-standing collaborators more than the vast majority of guest reviewers. But that's not to belittle them all; I've read some damned good ones by non-collabs as well (The Whistler and progismylife to name a few).
Then let me explain by referring you to a band called Acuity. There are approximately 3 reviewers on this cd. The total would come out to 8 stars divided by 3 reviewers, which should come out to 2.66, however it shows 1.79. Why is that? Could it be that the elitist Collaborators have decided their reviews mean more than us commoners. It would seem that way to me.
Then I thought, well maybe they don't count those reviews done by people who only rate it without an essay. So, I did the math again and it comes up 2.5 stars, and yet it says 1.79. So how much importance have the collabs given themselves? Is it 2 times the amount. No, that works out to be 2 stars. Actually it seems to be 3 times the amount or very close to it. That kind of honesty? No thanks, I'll read the Guest reveiws, thank you very much.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 05 2007 at 23:44
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I hear you, though I think it's pompous self-importance more than it is a lack of honesty
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Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 05 2007 at 23:50
| Well I was trying to be a little nice, but yes. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 05 2007 at 23:56
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The point is that all those who have become prog reviewers have proven that they are generally reliable reviewers with good composition skills. Since it would be much meaner to simply delete all the ratings without reviews, which gives non-English speaking members a chance to at least weigh in a little on reviews, a system of weights must be implemented. Now, the line between the validity of a guest reviewer's opinion and collabs is blurry, but any gues reviewer with a sufficient amount of high-quality reviews can become a collab. Collabs do not necessarily have better opinions, but they have been proven reliable, or at least more so than a one-off review from an unknown reviewer, which may still be valid. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 03:13
I understand, I have that affect on necks
. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 03:55
I can't button up my shirt from the third one down  . IT'S CONTAGIOUS------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 04:42
That may have an other cause, like the good Burgundian Belgian life
.  |
Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 22:24
Lets be quite frank here. How many of you actually write reviews for a living? You have elevated yourselves on this pedestal without any true credentials or accomplishments.
Lets face it, you're all rank amateurs as am I. So do I think 3X the amount seems a bit high?...indeed I do.
As far as those who write no essay with their review, I can see why those are rated quite low. It is all too easy to abuse, and therefore shouldn't be given much credence.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 22:37
------------- 
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Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 23:12
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 06 2007 at 23:50
-------------
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Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 00:07
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Well, in the end the powers that be may make all the decisions of what is valued or not, but I still have freedom of choice of what reviews I choose to read. I was mwerely trying to explain WHY...
Greg
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 07:03
Well your thoughts came over very poorly and made you appear bitter and twisted,I'm sure that wasnt your intention Greg. There are many reasons why the overall rating system favours Collabs/Prog Reviewers amongst them: *Reward for service to the site *Incentive for members to "move up the ranks" * to fight the practice of guests giving inflated scores to albums to give them more prominence I am sure Greg understands this, he just likes to rock the boat occasionally. |
Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 15:22
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What do you mean Tony? You were one of those guys with narrow taste in music I was referring to...... There are fanboys, yes, but even Collabs are fanboys to someone, so albums tend to be inflated at times anyhow. I will say Collabs take their reviews more seriously and at least try to remain impartial. Many Guest Reviewers need to be watched like a hawk, but those reviews that are accepted should play more credence. 3X or thereabout seems a bit high. That is all.
You were right about one thing. I do like to rock the boat. That felt good. Like old times.
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 16:26
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Yes each one of us has our favorites no doubt Greg but as collective whole we are very diverse. (One of the reasons it takes so long to come to some conclusions ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 16:51
From my understanding, prog reviewers get a weight of 3, non-collabs get a weight of 2, and ratings without reviews get 1, so the figure is closer to 1.5X.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 17:07
Well anyone giving 4 stars to Acuity's album seriously needs their own credentials scrutinising.... |
Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 18:19
If I could do it over, I'd change it to 3. I still like it and play it on occasion
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 18:20
| That singer is atrocious.... |
Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: September 07 2007 at 18:25
Well granted, he is a bit bad.,but so is Captain Beefheart and many people love him |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: September 08 2007 at 00:43
You may be somewhat right about collabs/admins being partial to certain bands, but there is evidence of them being objective regardless: Tony is a well-known (don't deny it Tony!) Rush fanboy, but the mean average of his reviews of Rush albums is only 3.2 stars. Easy Livin' has been known to sing the praises of Mike Oldfield, but his 30 reviews add up to an average rating of only 3.3. I arguably have written more about Kansas than anyone on these archives, but my 29 reviews add up to only a 3.1 average rating of that band.  So I think there's at least some evidence to indicate we are capable of objectivity.
As for Acuity, 14,997 members here have never commented on them, and of the three reviews one was a coolab who explained in detail why he gave it one star; one gave it three with no explanation at all; and you gave it four stars three years ago with a comment on this very thread that this was probably inflated. From my seat in the bleachers it seems as if the rating system is working pretty well. 
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 14:24
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I have resurrected this thread to applaud Febus' mammoth undertaking of the Barclay James Harvest back catalogue; the fact that I love 'Octoberon' and '...Other Short Stories' aside, I agree with everything else that he wrote, particularly with the 80s and 90s albums. |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 21:19
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^^yes, excellent reviewing by Febus. I've been planning on getting into Barclay James Harvest, one of the "big" bands I've yet to explore, and I began reading his reviews as they appeared on the homepage, seemingly everyday. As a result, "BJH Live" is on my order list followed by Once Again and EiEE. It takes a certain kind of perspecitve to systematical review an entire catalogue that way. Very good |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 21:22
Thanks Dan, I appreciate that. Didn't realize you said that! Lately, I've been reading lots of Folly's reviews. Not only are they very well written, but I agree with most of his points. (On last.fm, our music match calculator thingy is "Very High") |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 21:25
Yeah! YOU! You rock, man! |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 21:38
You take that back! -------------   |
Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 21:47
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I've always wondered: Who the heck is Drain-O??? He's rated like 2345345556777 albums, and has given very few (if any, I don't know) reviews. I need a personality to match the screen name! ------------- 
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 21:52
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I've always wondered about Drain-o too, if he hangs in the forums? I find his ratings to be generally very accurate.
------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 22:01
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As long as I researched, Drain-o is a French photographer that worked with M. Cousteau and due to his prog-rock appreciation was left in the almost desert island of Bouvet, in the South Atlantic together with the Norwegian garrison that deploys there, however Drain-o is the only permanent resident there... ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 22:20
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actually Bouvet has a little known but thriving prog scene.. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 03 2007 at 10:48
Thanks emdiar. I have often felt from our discussions that we are on a similar page.
With regard to 'Green' it's an album that blew my mind when I first heard it. I discovered it at the same time as the Ozrics, and was listening to a lot of ambient music. It went with my mood very well. I probably would have awarded 5 stars back then, but hey there was no Progarchives then.. My review of 'Green' is quite recent, and my perspective is slightly different I guess. An excellent album nonetheless, as is Live Herald, my old vinyl copy of which still gets frequent plays. Salmon Sing! Wow!
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: October 04 2007 at 07:39
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I do find a few that will usually make me read just about all their reviews - Gatot, Atavchron, Ivan, Sean Trane, and some others. Mind you, having gone through the alphabetical listings this spring & summer, I think Sean has written too many "short" reviews, & I'm still mystified about reviewing albums listened to 15-20 years ago. I still peruse non-collabs & non-admin reviews. The good ones will give off a spark about a certain album or group that will pique my curiosity enough to want to sample the music. I must add one clarification here though - a good review goes beyond raving about how this or that group is just so excellent , blah blah blah. It includes some comparisons, some musical guideposts, along with some personal attachment to said music. The perfect example that I've some across is Night Sun. Many reviews, but just guest reviews. Which I find strange as this is one heck of an early 70s heavy prog gem. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |