Cannot get into Tool
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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41082
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Topic: Cannot get into Tool
Posted By: meinmatrix
Subject: Cannot get into Tool
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:20
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I have hard time understanding Tool as a prog band, because to me it sounds like grunge metal. Some of you say they are prog band because songs have different time signatures. Well sorry, but that alone doesn't make it prog for me. Let's take another band, Opeth. They have different time signatures and strong proggressive melodies and strong vocals that cover all range from beautiful lyrical parts to massive death metal growl. When i put Opeth album in my record player everything is moving and things develop in a very proggressive manner. The problem with Tool and bands alike, and even Slipknot that is not labeled as prog but goes into same young fanboys bandwagon, is that making noise without any deep melody line becomes a purpose in itself. I don't find this proggressive. I find this extremely one dimensional and boring. Am i getting old? This is not a bash thread against Tool, i just want to know what is it that you get and i don't get? Melody was always everything for me, even when i was 20 years younger than today, and if i can't find interesting melody i just can't force myself to keep listening that kind of band. Right now i am once again trying to listen title song from album Lateralus. I hear nothing but echoes of Kurt Cobain, Pearl Jam, Slipknot and bands alike. Playing loud and silent makes no difference to me because i can't find any proggressive melody. I must be getting old? Remember what i said about Opeth.  ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:24
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This was done a few months ago, and ended in tears.
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37239 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37239
As soon as there's any hint of this thread going that way, it will enjoy the same fate.
Constructive input only please.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:28
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Tool is all about sonic progress, to me. Personally, I think their putting the accent on an unconventional beat style of playing is alright, and they've certainly found their niche in their genre. I do think, however, that their music is often narrowly focused and immobile, so it gets boring. I think your term "grunge metal" is accurate for my taste, though it ignores their atmospheric side. I find a problem with Opeth too. To me, it sounds like they're just tying riffs together without any good reason to do so. And the riffs can be uninteresting, which is not good when the songs can be 10+ minutes long. The album I find has this problem most is Deliverance, then Still Life. I enjoy Ghost Reveries the most because I find it completely devoid of this annoyance. The songs are totally creative. OK, Easy...instructive input.  .....OK, just ignore these aspects of the bands, and all will be hunky-dory.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:35
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I never rise to the bait in negative Tool threads anymore.
If you don't like them,no problem.It's all a matter of opinion,isn't it? -------------  |
Posted By: meinmatrix
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:36
Ghost Reveries has been a groundbreaking listening experience for me. And what i would like to hear from bands like Tool, is much more melody lines instead of playing riffs in loop. I don't know why i get the impression that distorted electric guitar riffs alone sell records for young audience. What i am trying to find really hard from Tool is epic songs and themes but it must be well hidden.  -------------
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stonebeard wrote:Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:38
In my opinion, Pearl Jam was on the light end of the grunge spectrum. They were basically a classic rock band out of era, to me. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:40
| I must admit I found Lateralus very hard to get into - I couldn't listen to the whole album in one go. However I then got 10,000 Days and loved that, then went back to Lateralus and that's growing on me now. There's certainly more to them than grunge but I find the heavy compression and low mixing of the vocals tends to disguise the melodies a bit. All I can suggest is - try 10,000 Days. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:43
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I have a hard time being constructive about it because the Tool fans in my world are uptight and in my face about it when you express anuthing other than love for Tool(not to say the same of the ones here, just the ones here in Fresno...or F***no as I like to call it). Thank goodness I don't have to deal with the "are they prog or not" discussion as most of them hate prog (including my wife) and don't label it as such. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 05:13
What makes Tool progressive?
- Unusual, often changing time signatures and polyrhythms (but that's not progressive at all  )
- Deeper lyrical content
- Unique sonic experimentation
and probably more that I haven't thought of.
Melody, on the other hand, isn't really dominant in their music. If you need strong melodies to enjoy your music, then they simply aren't for you, and that's fine. There's plenty of other music worth getting into.
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 05:26
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better get into Tull
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 05:48
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Tried them, couldn't see anything really interesting, moved on. Not prog at all in my view. However, certainly not offensive and unpleasant like a few of the newer prog bands. Perhaps being nearer 60 than 50 doesn't help! ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 06:05
You should listen to Lateralus ... it's nowhere near Grunge. It's epic ... a very disciplined concept album with many, many intricacies to discover. You won't find beautiful vocal lines there, but the vocals match the music perfectly. One of *the* essential prog metal albums! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: ian picken
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 08:27
Tool are awesome but i can understand why people cannot get into them, i started with Undertow and it took me a long while for it to click and each new release has taken awhile to click aswell. I am going to Brixton tomm. night to see them for the 6th time and i cant wait, the live shows are awesome. 
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Posted By: Morbix
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 09:21
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Tool was the first progressive band I started to listen to. My two best friends had been listening to them for months, but I was a stubborn little ass and only listened to classic rock (yeah, I was one of those kids, not proud of it). I only had to listen to Lateralus (the song) once. Being a musician myself, and a fairly angry person (), I guess it was easier to connect to Tool's style. But despite what many people say, Tool is very progressive. Compare them to the other bands that were active when they were in the 90s: The Smashing Pumpkins, Soundgarden, Stone Temple Pilots. All bands I DO listen to, but none of their songs, in musical composition and lyrical content, don't hold a candle to Tool. I too, thought they were just metal at first, but in comparison to other bands of their era, it's easier to see. Also, something to understand about Tool fans is that a lot of us are not progheads. Plenty of kids at my school who love Aenima heavily disliked 10,000 Days because it was more progressive and less metal. Just to clear that up for Tapfret :) ------------- Take everything in moderation, including moderation. 
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 12:41
Agreed.
OMG, if there was a hate thread about every person who hates a Prog band this place would be a mess. There are a good number of bands many like and I really don't , but shouting out each one serves no purpose. It's childish.
No one is forcing me to listen to their music either. Live and let live, right? ------------- 
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Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 12:47
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Tool is masterliness!
They're subject matter stretches way beyond any "grunge metal"
Just they're artisticness alone is progressive.
Maynard can hit a huge range just listen to the contast fromThe grudge and the pot
Adam Jones' conservative and very technical guitar playing itself is far beyong any metal/grunge guitar player.
I have made many lines for you people to quote and say how stupid I am so I can crush you into the dust... now c;mon BRING IT! ------------- 
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 13:05
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I don't care if they're prog or not. I like their music and that's what matters the most to me. Of course, they weren't much proggy in their earliest days (pre-Ænima) but their other albums are definitely prog, although not in the traditional way I suppose. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 13:16
I hate tool what a crap band they are they suck so much and not prog not not not........ ohh noo i cant go on and lie like this i simply cant, i love tool i love em i love me i love em!  ------------- 
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Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 13:20
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No care for them at all...
They seem to be a pretty overrated band to me. Tool is the only band that takes 3-5 years between albums that still contains 3-5 useless filler tracks. And cut the crap out of lyrical content...their just high beyond belief. I love when people try to make sense of their lyrics. And tell me their playing in 33/22 time...ugh! |
Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 13:54
Well that was a useless post.
If you enjoy an interesting drummer, I'd reccommend Tool, or any of the Adrian Belew solo "Sides" with Danney Carey.
Guess what... I make alot of sense out of ther lyics. They're actually pretty straight forward. ------------- 
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Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 14:32
Actually, it was a pretty decent argument and you answered it with a useless post. I find Danney Carey interesting and the bassist too...actually, I adore him. Also, I think the lyrics are straightfoward, but I took a quote out of a review for the album...shows how people take these straightforward lyrics and turn them into something there not. " Last remarkable song of Aenima is its title track. The lyrics of “Aenima” are about Southern California being all washed beneath the surface of the sea after some kind of disaster. It seems like Maynard James Keenan hates LA and wants to flush it all away. If we look deeper at what’s behind those lyrics is seems to me that the band is just outing its disapproval of the “emptiness” we have in our lives today. The more we work, the more we have, the less our lives become worth. We should go “back to basics” some times to really take the most out of our lives and learn how to estimate its true value again." How did he come up with that?...I would really, really like to know. |
Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 14:37
| I don't get where those lyrics come from either, but I love Tool's music. My favorite song from Aenima is "H". |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 14:54
Tool is not something you get into, you must let Tool get into you. A wrenching experience. Tool doesn't turn me on either, but I do respect the band never-the-less. If a band doesn't click, I tend to just move on. There are lots of bands that don't do it for me in the archives. As to whether or not they're Prog, it depends on how Prog is defined. There's lots of music I love at this site, and not on this site, considered to be part of the "Prog" categories represented here that I wouldn't strictly define as Prog (progressive music, sure, but not purist Prog -- music that is embraced by many under the Prog umbrella...). Try TAAL instead (if you haven't already). ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 16:55
Thinking, probably. He took the lyrics and the message and applied it to his view of the world, or atleast LA. Nothing wrong with that, I would actually argue that what he did is better than taking the lyrics literally. He's applying ideas, he may be in the minority as far as lyrical interpretations go, because I think MJK just hates LA and loves Bill Hicks' comedy, but music is subjective, to each his own I guess.
In all honesty, meinmatrix, I believe Tool is a very talented bass made of 4 very talented musicians who take musical cues mostly from King Crimson and grunge alternative, a genre in which Tool were created. IMO they are about as melodic as 90s/2000s King Crimson as well, which is, not very melodic at all. I think that they are sometimes hated on because of their popularity, and their sketchy fanbase, which are awful reasons not to explore or enjoy a band. I would suggest reading the reviews on 10k days, Lateralus and AEnema to see why people do or do not like this band, but don't let it influence your opinion juust yet. Then take the time to sit and listen without prejudice, but also kind of have in mind the reasons (gimmicks?) why other poeple enjoy this music. If you have dedicated a good amount of time listening to the albums to see if they resonate with you, and at the same time listened for the things that most people enjoy about Tool, and you still don't enjoy the band, then that's all you can do. You've done the proper work needed to deeply enjoy the music, and its all up to brain chemistry and subjectivity in taste (e.g. 'no melody') from that point on. No need to force yourself to enjoy anything, that is pretense. -------------
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Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:00
Seems to me your hate for Tool lies with their fans, not the actual music... ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:02
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Oh, meinmatrix, if you wanna hear something melodic and (IMO) absolutely gorgeous, listen to the guitar solos in Parabola. I get goosebumps eveytime I hear them. -------------
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Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:20
Well I already mentioned the useless filler tracks but I'll put it this way, Tool makes some great songs, just not great albums. If they put out a greatest hits album, or even combine the good songs from two albums together it would be 5 stars. |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:22
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A couple years ago when I first started here at this site, there was a thread exactly like this one in which someone said that Tool is not prog and there's no way to prove that they are. I then went to the 'Definition of Progressive Rock' page on PA, copied and pasted, and then listed ways in which Tool fulfills every single one of the aspects of progressive music listed here. Since there's about 4 million threads just like this, I cant find that post, but it's there. trust me. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:26
Pointless thread that should be closed. 
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Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:34
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I think the closest thing to a "Greatest Hits" we might ever get from Tool is a live album or DVD. I think (hope) they're one of the few bands out there who would never release a GH album. They (Maynard especially) seem too delibrately non-commercial for that. Speaking of commercial, what do you guys think of their shows? I've been to two, and they were both "greatest hits ever meets some new songs from 10k days" ... I would've much rather enjoyed an "experience" show, complete with improvs and a unique setlist. The performance was powerful, tho.
....maybe there's a tool appr. thread in which I can yap about them -------------
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 17:53
Here:
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 18:31
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I am also a member of the "Tool is prog??? camp". I seem to be finding a lot of bands on PA lately that don't seem like prog to me but have been brought under the umbrella. I think that it is a matter of where my central point is on the prog charts. I am by no means a Tool expert. My exposure to date is 10,000 Days and Undertow. I agree with the grunge label but I don't see the prog label from my tastes. I got Undertow when it first came out and I really didn't know what to make of it at the time. I guess "good grunge" but I preferred Pearl Jam/Soundgarden. Since joining PA, I did purchase 10,000 Days, and I have also picked up a couple of their other albums but I have not had the chance to listen to them yet, so I suppose my opinion could still change.
I borrowed Meshuggah's Catch-33 from my local library to give them a listen. To me this was some of the most god-awful noise I had ever heard. (sorry not constructive but my first opinion on a band that I have seen as highly recommended by some on this website).
For me Opeth has been a third disappointment for me in regards to ProgArchives' recommendations. The music and clean vocals are really good, but I for one cannot get past the death growls or "cookie monster" vocals. They just ruin the whole experience for me. ------------- 
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Posted By: zvinki
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 19:56
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Tool has given me hope that you can still be successful and popular by making music on your own tems, just like our prog heroes in the 70's. The secret, like back then, is that you have to be very very good at it to stand out from the crowd. |
Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 21:12
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From what I've heard thus far, and that is limited, bands like Tool and The Mars Volta are a bit to thashy bass and drums for my tastes. By that I simply mean I find the dominance of the bass and drums obscures anything else. That is said from the perspective of an old fart who readily acknowledges that as he's aged his taste in music has mellowed somewhat.
My nephew , who is a big fan of both T and TMV, has suggested I start with a track called "Third Eye".
Any thoughts ??
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Posted By: explodingjosh
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 22:35
"Third Eye" is a great track, but is not at all mellow, its pretty much a powerhouse track ending in a polyrithmic crash and bang. I would recommend "Disposition", "Reflection" and "The Patient" from Lateralus. The Patient is very ... patient, slow and mellow but it crescendos about halfway through into their heavier sound.... it might actually be a good track to get you more comfortable with their heavyness, since it's tastefully used. I would also recommend "Intension" and "Right in Two" from 10k days, but Right in Two behaves like The Patient. IMO all very enjoyable. -------------
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Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 22:58
Thanks for the info. So it looks like Lateralus is the album to start off with. Let's see how we go.
Zounds !! Listening to The Patient as I type. Probably a tad heavy for these tired old ears to really get into but wow, this almost makes me want to be young again. No doubt it's good stuff.
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 00:22
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I feel like i should like them considering their charcteristics ,but i cant. Their cover of no quarter was pretty decent though there is a chord which sounds disgusting on it which almost ruins it.
I think my problem is the vocals though i respect them musicaly i think i just find them a bit dull & cliched ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: puma
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 02:35
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It's all about context. If you sit around listening to Yes and King Crimson and Van der Graaf and you hear Tool, I don't blame you for not being impressed. But in the context of alternative rock (which is what I have always defined Tool as), that's where they shine. I heard them on an alt-rock radio station in Boston, WFNX, and I heard Schism lodged between an Alice in Chains song and a Smashing Pumpkins song 5 years ago. Needless to say I was shocked at how different they sounded and how much I liked it. I feel like there's a lot to like about their music. It's not the most melodic thing you'll ever hear, but hey, we're not all Jethro Tull over here. They're a very passionate band who care about the experience. They are a band where you have to turn it up loud and pay attention, and then the "filler" tracks make sense in the album's context. You can hear the love they put in their music and the care they put into making it an experience for the listener, something that 99% of bands that receive heavy radio airplay do not do. I hate to sound like a fanboy because I'm not, but I think Tool's positives far outweigh their negatives. |
Posted By: queenlerxst
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 13:10
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Most of the Tool fans I know HATE progressive rock or any complex music. I don't know what that says about Tool's music....
 ...actually, I can see why they fall in the prog category, and as much as I respect them, they don't really do anything for me. Though they do have neat music videos. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 14:12
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Tool to me are OK, but they are merely a small planet in an endless universe of music So basically what I'm saying is if you don't like them, simply check out other stuff instead. Even if you DO like them, check out other stuff as well. Progressive music is about progressing music taste as well (at least it is to me) ------------- 
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Posted By: eon_
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 14:28
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Well to the post "Cannot get into Tool" I would recommend you to try to get into other band, after all you don't HAVE to like a band in particular it's all a matter of taste as someone already said. Their haven't been a band in history that appeals to everyone so what's the problem? Prog bands are hard to get into, so there is another reason why Tool is prog..lol ------------- Spiral out, keep going... |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 18:17
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Can't get into Tool? Too bad, but you can check out the 123254264364574535424234 bands that you still haven't listened to. ------------- 
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Posted By: ian picken
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 11:48
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Went to see TOOL at brixton last night, i have seen them several times now and its a shame you was not there cos they would of blown you away. Great sound, great stage show with lasers and awesome projections, just brilliant, they are good on cd but so much better live.
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Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 14:29
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^Hmmm...
they're videos on youtube suck, I guess you just have to be there. -------------
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Posted By: dralan
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 19:21
| I do like Tool and I have alot of respect for them as musicians , but I do see where you are coming from. I was really into them when they first came out with Opiate and then Undertow, but after that they seemed to kind of stall out on ideas, rehasing the same old tired lumbering riffs with the dark, mysterious lyric thing going on. I myself never really thought of them as "prog" per se either. The latest album offers up no new ideas or change of direction. Seems they are comfotable standing pat with a proven formula. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:02
Any band who dedicates an album to Bill Hicks has got to be worth the extra effort needed to get into them 
Seriously, as others have said, if you don't like a band, it's fine, move on, there are plenty of other bands to listen too. Liking Tool isn't obligatory for your enjoyment of prog. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:07
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I like their strange sort of...psychedelic ambient/pop-metal thing that they do, very unique. I hated it at first, but after many listens I grew to appreciate 10,000 days. Of course, I'm not a massive fan, and still have only heard the 1 album. When I get Lateralus, who knows, maybe I'll stop liking them. But continue to check out other bands, and continue to try Tool every now and then if you get the time: often after many listens, a band will click. My only advice is don't put pressure on yourself to enjoy any band. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:14
They have turned into videos?!?!?! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:26
 excellent!have another LOLy ------------- What? |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 20:34
Sure, I'll have another Lolly.  |
Posted By: tubey
Date Posted: August 25 2007 at 18:30
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Ok, I am not sure why I am posting to this thread but I have debated on it for some time and the only thing that I can come up with in my somewhat small mind is this: the reason why we're all here is because we're all BIG fans of prog and prog is like a HUGE buffet line with all kinds of tasty stuff for us to fill our plates and our bellys. Prog is SOOOO huge that I must rely on the kind folks here who post in and suggest things to try. I must admit, I've heard one song by Tool and to tell you the truth, I can't begin to say which one, so by asking me that question, I would stare dumbfoundly at you. It was a morsel I thought I wouldn't put on my plate but it went down pretty good. Are they my favorite band? Honestly, no because I must hear some more 'afore I go placing my 'yea' or 'nay' on the group. That is why I hang out here at the Prog buffet because it has been my good fortune that there has been some kind soul to tell me, 'if you like this, try a bit of that.' And sometimes the taste isn't what I expected. But, that's okay because I made an effort to try it.
Different strokes for different folks. If you don't like Tool, great. Find another band to try. If you do, great. Continue to support them by attending their shows and buying their CDs. I can honestly say that I am blessed that there are bands like Tool writing, recording and playing the music they believe in. Even though I may not have heard any of their music or maybe just one song, I am blessed to know there are souls out there digging 'em.
 2Shred
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Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 25 2007 at 20:02
Well put -------------
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Posted By: evilromero
Date Posted: August 25 2007 at 23:18
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Posted By: Zarec
Date Posted: August 26 2007 at 11:46
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i´ve only read the first post of this thread and here´s how i see things. Tool has never been a TRUE prog band but , in stead, it has always been a very creative one. in my opinion a band passes to prog rock when that particular band, in this case Tool, transforms it´s root genre, in this case grunge (or alternative metal for some) into something far more complex regardless of the level of melodicity. Tool has a complex intelctual backgroud that focuses on psychology and that complexity is reflected in their music. The composition of each album from 96 till the present is rather unique not to mention that as a metal band they pay to the bass just as much attention as they pay to the guitar. generaly in metal the bass is used only for sharpening the sound. tool is not melodical but it is very creative. the comparation with slipknot is a bit absurd because slipknot is an agressive metal band that doesn´t persue any subliminal music (in spite of the title of their last full-lengh album). the main element in the music of slipknot is rhythm. The band features a great drumer (the only good musician in the band), joey jordison, and two other percusionsits while Tool doesn´t really want to achieve intensity through rhythm but through amasing bass and guitar compositions lead by subtile vocals. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: August 26 2007 at 12:56
Radiohead dedicated The Bends in memory of Bill Hicks also, this thread =  ------------- 
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: August 27 2007 at 00:10
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Nor can I -- but what of it?
I don't think there's anyone here who enjoys EVERY band listed on PA.
(As it's collected here, "prog" is very diverse -- not really one genre.) ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: hobbified
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 06:40
Now this one I find downright silly. Now I'm not one of those fools who thinks that those guys don't do drugs or write about drugs (some people will come up with all manner of ridiculous explanations) but Tool is a long way from standard stoner fare. Meaning isn't that hard to locate -- quite a few Tool songs have lyrics that are one of two types: easy to understand right off the bat (most of the "angry" stuff really), and easy to understand if you've done a little homework (hint: try Jung first). As to Tool's "prog cred" -- well honestly I don't care, I just enjoy listening. But let's stack it up. Hella sonic layering: definitely. Vocals: yep. Maynard is a respectable singer (which seems pretty rare these days) but he can scream pretty effectively too. Phrasing: pushing the limit every day (who else is going to get away with "and if I say I might fade like a sigh if I stay, you minimize my movement anyway, I must persuade you another way" ? Besides the awesome way it plays against the rhythm, that's some sort of a compound-complex sentence or other.) And then there's the fact that Tool consistently reminds me of Floyd, and listening to one puts me in a mood for the other... |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 07:17
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it took me 7 months to get into Tool.. now, they are my fave band... i am still discovering new things about their work.. the most recent was that the order of the tracks in Lateralus is not what appears to be on the CD!!! ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 07:40
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This is a problem? Why?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Samir
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 14:00
| A band that i cannot get into as well, but maybe later. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 15:59
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All I ever heard of them are the three example tracks in the database, and I must say I like them. The only thing that gets on my nerves is the double bass drumming; how much more interesting this would sound if instead of the in my opinion useless double bass drum would instead by a bass drum / hi-hat combination. What delicate contrast that would be!
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Firdous e Bareen
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 21:28
I think that the term "progressive" is best used as an ajective rather than a noun. It describes more an an overall philossophy on making music than it does a particular genre. Just because Tool don't use the bright melodies of Yes and Genensis doesn't mean they aren't a progressive band.
It's pretty simple really. Maynard's basically saying that all the shallow, pathetic little things in society can get f**ked. Having LA collapse into the sea is just a metaphor. The interpretation of the track you quoted was spot on, and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Most lyrics in progressive music require the listener to think about them. Yes's music isn't all about the passing of the seaons and King Krimson's isn't all about clocks, pigs, dogs and sheep. You need to think laterally to truly appreciate fine lyrics. |
Posted By: dpedal1
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 11:34
| I love Tool. Tool is the band that introduced me to prog rock. IMO, Lateralus is one of the greatest albums to be released in the past decade. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 19:15
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As far as I am concerned, Tool is essential prog. But I am of the minority in that opinion.
I also think "Lateralus" is the greatest album ever produced. I may possibly be completely alone in that one . . .
The bottom line is this; if you don't hear the progressive side of Tool, then asking someone to point it out to you won't help you hear it any clearer. Tool is indeed a prog band through-and-through, but they did in fact start out as a grunge band (The Opiate EP and the Undertow album for instance, are in fact not prog at all). This does not mean their latest efforts are also grunge, but if that is what it sounds like to you, then nomatter how graphically detailed and passionate a Tool fan may describe why they are prog, it won't make any difference.
However, I do have one suggestion: Listen to tracks ten through twelve on Lateralus, when you are in a very calm state, in a dimmly lit room, and through the headphones. Repeat, through the headphones. I would suggest to simply listen to whole album from beginning to end in this manner, because Tool's impact really relies on the entire album experience, but if you are unable or unwilling to sit through the whole thing with headphones on, at least listen to the last three real tracks of the album (track 13 really only works if you are listening to the album as a whole).
Forget what you think "prog-ness" is, and just let the music stand on it's own for a moment. If you truly cannot hear the beauty in Justin Chancellor's bass wizardry, cannot be uplifted by Maynard Keenan's otherwordly vocal style, don't feel entranced by Danny Carey's trance-like percussion beats after listening to these tracks at least twice, then yes, I would say that you will never see the beauty that Tool music posseses, and that's okay if you can't. Most people on this site don't see it either, so you are not alone. But if you do happen to finally see what all the fuss is about, then enjoy it, because Tool's music is frankly the most beautiful and intimate of experiences I have ever felt as far as music goes. It's a very special thing to those of us who get it. To everyone else, it's nothing special. Tool is a band one either adores or hates, there really isn't any middle ground to it.
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 08:23
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I guess what stops many people from getting into Tool, is the lack of melodicism really, and perhaps the vocal style. I first heard Tool, in about 1999, but I forgot what it sounded like, and I heard it again in about 2005, with the song Schism, and it just felt like it was the first time I had heard Tool. I liked this song, but didn't love it at first. Last year, i finally purchased one of their albums, which was 10 000 days, I listened to it, and for a while it was good, but not great. But listening to it more and more, you hear all sorts of details, and each time I listen to 10 000 days, every couple of listens, sometimes several listens consecutively, i hear details I missed the last time. I could hand someone 10 000 days and they will listen to it and might tell me they can't understand why it's so beautiful and emotional, but everytime I listen to it, it's a unique listening experience that only Tool can bring to my table. So it basically took me several months of one CD to 'get' Tool, but now that I'm there, it was worth the effort. ------------- 
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 09:19
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Can't get into Tool?Great then, don't bother trying. There are tons of other progressive metal bands out there. I find the "remember what I said about Opeth" bit very amusing. Saying something good/bad about one band does not justify your belief/disbelief with another. ------------- 
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Posted By: dpedal1
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 11:24
Probably the most otherwordly experience one can have while listening to music. I too agree that everyone should try this. Great post.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 12:14
Hey, thanks.
 you know, I think that's what it comes to, really; otherworldly. If you are someone who only liked prog for it's technicallity (Like Dream Theater, yes, etc.), then you will never like Tool, but if you are someone who enjoys psychedelic, trance-like listening experiences, a band like Tool, Pink Floyd, Isis, etc. would probably suit you better. I myself happen to like both sides of prog, but alot of people only lke the former aspects in the music. The topic starter seems to be one of those people, and there is nothing wrong with that, but because of this, it is curious to me as to why he feels that he needs to like Tool.  |
Posted By: dpedal1
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 12:57
To each his own. If you like it GREAT, it not no biggie. I'm with you on the trance like feel many bands evoke. Speaking of Isis, a buddy of mine has recommended that I get into them. Which album would you suggest. I have poked around and it seems like most recommend, "In The Absence of Truth."
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Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 16:46
PANOPTICON.
I wouldn't recommend starting out with anything earlier than that, but if you get into them, check out Oceanic and Celestial as well. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Firdous e Bareen
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 00:01
Music can move you on many levels, and I think that the way Tool choose to move you demands a lot more focus than the way a band like Yes moves you. They don't poor really obvious emotions into their music, but that's what makes it so special for the people who understand what it's all about - subtlety goes a long way, it moves you on a deeper level. ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 00:11
I don't think subtlety is necessarily something moves you on a deeper level, but it's something that moves you in a different way, but I would agree that Tool's music can move you very deeply, as it does move me very deeply when I listen to it. I'm still extremely moved by a band like Yes, Dream Theater, Symphony X and Spastic Ink for example, but each of these bands moves me for different reasons, sometimes for similar reasons too. Same goes for Tool, but it certainly does take a lot of deep focus to hear what is going on in Tool's music, otherwise you miss out on details that add up to the overall experience. -------------
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 04:10
To tell you the truth, that very album is what got me into them, so I would suggest that, simply because, when I first heard it, I was like, "Wooooooahhhh!"
And realted to what some else said: I agree completely on that one really needs to pay close attention to Tool's music in order to hear all of the layers and feel all of the effects. That is why I pretty much always make jeadphones a mandatory requirement for people when I suggest listening to Tool; their music isn't listen-in-the-car-friendly. You really need to sit down and get intimate with the music before you can truly appreciate it all. At least, that's how it was with me. I didn't truly realize how beautiful "La te ral us" was until I listened to it in the phones in the comfort of my room with the lughts out. Now THAT was a memorable experience!
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Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 14:00
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For tool, you either "get it" or you don't. If you "get it," it is one of the best listening experiences ever. If you don't, then it just kind of sounds like boring grunge music. Each album (or at least their last 3) is a whole-album experiance. The person who earlier suggsted a greatest hits CD essentially suggested blasphemy to me. To understand Tool better, I would suggest listening to some indian classical music, specifically tabla/sitar music. I would sugest "concert for peace" by Ravi Shankner. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">  
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 17:52
Ahhh Tool ... the only band on prog archives we are gagged from speaking freely about without dire consequences ... even Rush , Tull , Yes, King Crimson and Genesis dont get that kind of kid gloves protection ... and they are really talented. its crazy ... I believe in freedom of speech if the only thing people can say is nice stuff about a certain band it will be a little misleading.  ( I tried Tool and moved on very fast) |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 18:04
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IMO, Tool started prog metal minus the speed, and I must say, that kind of metal is 95% of the metal I listen too.
So if you say you cant get into tool, I'm sorry to hear that. -------------
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 18:41
With all due respect, maybe moving on very fast was your mistake . . . ? It took me several listens to "La te ral us" to really start to understand what is so great about them. Had I just listened to them once and then moved on I wouldn't be so storngly supportive of them today.
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Posted By: dpedal1
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 22:18
| I purchase Lateralus when it first came out. It took my two years before I realized how amazing that album is. It is now one of my favs. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: February 05 2008 at 22:21
Agreed -------------
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Posted By: Charterhouser
Date Posted: February 06 2008 at 15:43
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Well I listened to Aenima and Lateralus, encouraged by the positive reviews I had found on this site, some of which compared to Pink Floyd and marked Lateralus as the new millenium Dark Side of the Moon. I didn't really care about that- I immediately thought that statements like these aren't generally reliable- but I was interested by the feeling of their music so positevely described by many reviewers. And I have to tell that... I was really disappointed... I truly could not get into it! Couldn't appreciate nor found any particular technical skill (except for the drummer), any melodic talent... I liked some of the atmospheres, but overall the songs seemed to me just sick, monotonous and... a bit pretentious... and the vocals just played an alienating effect on me, I just couldn't stant them.
I'm speaking, of course, in personal terms, without criticizing Tool for what they are... Tool fans please don't slander me  ...------------- I spent my hatred everyplace, on every work, on every face, someone gave me wishes and I wished for an embrace...- Teachers, Leonard Cohen |
Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: February 07 2008 at 14:14
Why would we slander you for that? It is so much more mature to say that you dislike something but it isn't necessairily bad then it is to say that something outright sucks. I hate people who say something along the lines of "tool sucks because they are boring." Well now, my advice for you if you still want to get into tool is to fixate on one song. Since you have lateralus, try the title track. Listen to it with the lyrics out in front, trying to interpret it. Look up the music video for it on youtube. Listen to it again and attempt to count out the time signature. Try to figure out the mathematical structure of the lyrics. Watch one of the countless videos of some amateur trying to bang it out on drums. If you still don't like it after all that, then give up ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">
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Posted By: Charterhouser
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 04:18
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Thanks for your suggestions and your comprehension, Nuke! I should follow your advice and see if I can spot something more in Tool's music. I'll let you know ! ------------- I spent my hatred everyplace, on every work, on every face, someone gave me wishes and I wished for an embrace...- Teachers, Leonard Cohen |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 11:42
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i agree with nuke in the respects that finding one song at least that you like from a band your having trouble with is important. thats how i got into pretty much every prog band out there. its such difficult listening sometimes, and demanding, that its hard to really attach yourself to a style of play immediately. This happened for me with Yes, Genesis, Floyd, Pain of Salvation, Jethro Tull (im still in that one song stage but im slowly revolving out of it) Devin Townsend, Godspeed you! Black Emperor, TOOL!, and many others. The first tool song i really liked was Stink Fist. I listened that to death and by the time i was done i was slowly becoming a Tool fan.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 13:10
I agree with this completely!
. . . except the song "Lateralus" doesn't have a music video.
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Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 13:45
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It probably does on youtube. In one form or other. Lateralus is a great song, but 10.000 days is better. Very moving.
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 14:08
Forgive me, I just thought he was saying to watch the official music video in order to get a taste of the band's indepth philosophy. If he meant to simply watch a fan-made video that means nothing, then I was mistaken in my correction.
! I just now noticed what your avatar was of, Evans! So, are you a Miyazaki fan? |
Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 17:20
Holy crap you're right! I must have been thinking of parabola. How embarresing... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 18:02
Now, THAT is an epic music video! Actually, it is my favorite music video of all time (in case you couldn't tell how much I loved it from my avatar, haha)
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Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 18:48
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 08 2008 at 20:57
When I was in Japan last summer, there were entire stores dedicated to selling Studio Ghibli merch: dolls, ornaments, clothing, and dvds of some films that haven't been released in the USA yet. Ahhh, I was in heaven!
*geek* |
Posted By: hobbified
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 18:22
Just my opinion, but if you're going to focus on one song off of Lateralus, choose the two songs that are one song: Parabol/Parabola. If you ask me, they're more engaging and more central to the album than the title track. They just really do something special. Other suggestion: listen to the album version of Push*t a couple times, and then switch to the Salival version, and never go back :) |
Posted By: coleio
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 18:33
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So? Oh well you can't get into Tool, big deal. Why post and tell everyone. If you can't get into a band you probably don't like them so don't listen to them. ------------- Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!! |
Posted By: Statutory-Mike
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 21:25
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I can completley relate with you meinmatrix, I have the same problem...I do like Lateralus (the album as a whole) but that is the only Tool release I can really listen to. I've tried to get into them on several occasions..I'll wait for the release of their new album that they are apperently already working on and give that a listen to see if I like it or not.
You can just not listen to them, then you wouldn't really have this problem..or if you like a certain album then just listen to that one...and pray that their new album turns out to be as good as Lateralus (if you're myself ) ------------- 
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Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 21:33
| Somebody (Jody), kill this thread. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: February 24 2008 at 22:18
I want to,but it might seem like I'm biased or something. ------------- |
Posted By: Erpland316
Date Posted: February 25 2008 at 13:11
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Some songs that you might like on the proggier side of things...Disposition, Reflection, Lateralus, The Patient, Intension, Right in Two, Third Eye, No Quarter, 4 Degrees, Push*t to name a few!! Give those a few more listens and you might change your mind! ------------- "Science is all metaphor"-Timothy Leary [IMG]http://freespace.virgin.net/martin.jones10/amonpic.jpg">[IMG]http://imagegen.last.fm/red/artists/Yeti316.gif"> |
Posted By: the_rider
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 06:30
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If you can't get into them, just skip 'em and don't bother with it anymore. |
Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 22:17
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"Cannot get into Tool" Tough! I can. For a near 50 year old I have no problem with the heavier side of life. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: fkassad
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 04:02
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Tool takes a bit to finally hit you. I dont think Ive ever listened to a Tool album on first listen and thought it was anything spectacular. Just one of those bands that takes a couple listens. I had a friend who was so persistent about his dislike for Tool. After years he finally realized what it was all about and now he constantly praises them. The songs are very climactic, and when you get into them, its truly an emotional experience. Whether they are prog or not, I will leave that to the experts, I always thought they had prog elements. Who cares about the genre anyways, if you like it, you like it. Its really hard to recommend songs, if your just starting out I would just put the album on from the beginning (skip the fillers too, lot of times they aren't necessary). Lateralus and Aenima are the masterpiece albums, definitely start with those. Though like everyone else says, if you dont like it, whats the big deal? Tons of other great bands to listen to. |
Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 05:31
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I like their drums a lot, but that's really it.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian |