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Sgt. Pepper- Overrated

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Topic: Sgt. Pepper- Overrated
Posted By: Peto
Subject: Sgt. Pepper- Overrated
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 13:50
This is not an anti-Beatles entry. I just think that Sgt. Pepper is horrendously overrated. Look at the albums that came before and after it - Revolver and Magical mystery tour. Both are much better in terms of songwriting, plus Magoical mystery tour is even more experimental than Sgt.
Revolver and Magical mystery tour should definitely be praised much more than that one as a whole.

What do you think?



Replies:
Posted By: Dirk
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 13:54
Horrendously overrated is an overstatement but indeed i like Abbey road a lot better. 


Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 13:55
Wow, this thread sure will help us! No one ever thought of an overrated "this or that" thread!

And no, I dont think it´s overrated


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"You want me to play what, Robert?"


Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 13:56
disagree, Sgt. Peppers was the pioneering album, while Abbey Road is a good listen it didn't try as many new techniques and while Magical Mistery Tour used the ideas better it wasn't the first to try them.

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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob


Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 13:56
I dunno. I don't like it as much as the general majority, but i have heard that there are people that think "Horses" and "Rumours" are overrated albums as well, which leads me to believe that taste is very personal, after all.. :)

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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'


Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 14:00
I don't like Sargent Pepper's as much as Abbey Road or some of the other Beatles albums, but it did make a HUGE impact on popular music. It even caused Brian Wilson to have a nervous breakdown.

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Posted By: Progrock105
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 14:02
Sargent Pepper worse than Magical Mystery Tour? Come on! Maybe you should give both albums another listen...


Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 14:12
As to the importance of Sgt. Pepper in the history of modern music, it is absolutely not overrated.  That said, I am among those that personally prefer Abbey Road as my favorite Beatles album, but I don't find that Sgt. Pepper is overrated in terms of sheer musical content, either.

Finally, as you are new here, I think you'll come to find that "overrated" is a term with next to no value.  Its use often boils down to someone expressing their opinion that they do not look favorably upon of a piece of work that is highly praised by many others.  Art does not have a fundamental and absolute value - it is of course highly subjective.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 16:19
I would agree that Revolver is a better and more focused album than Sgt Pepper but MMT was really only an EP originally. It just had some singles from the same period tacked on to make an album, so it's effectively a compilation (albeit a very good one).

And don't forget, two of the best tracks on the MMT album (Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane) were intended for Sgt Pepper but released as a single before hand due to the record company being after another single.


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 07 2007 at 14:51
I'm always ready to agree with any post saying that an album I don't like as much as others do is overrated....Wink

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Posted By: febus
Date Posted: August 07 2007 at 21:16
Originally posted by Peto Peto wrote:

This is not an anti-Beatles entry. I just think that Sgt. Pepper is horrendously overrated. Look at the albums that came before and after it - Revolver and Magical mystery tour. Both are much better in terms of songwriting, plus Magoical mystery tour is even more experimental than Sgt.
Revolver and Magical mystery tour should definitely be praised much more than that one as a whole.

What do you think?
 
In the middle ages , people were sent  to burn for such heretic comments!!LOL LOL


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 07 2007 at 21:29
unlike Revolver (a great collection of songs) and Abbey Road (great but quite the pop album), Sgt. Peppers was as much an experience as a record, rivaled in atmosphere and texture that year only by Smiley Smile



Posted By: keith_emerson
Date Posted: August 07 2007 at 21:53
wow..Sgt Pepper, such exciting and revolutionary. IMO, not overrated at all.


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: August 07 2007 at 22:11
Non overrated, in any sense. A masterpiece of prog and non-prog music, and Beatles' best together with Abbey Road.

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The best you can is good enough...


Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 08 2007 at 02:41
Magical Mystery is awesome, but i dont know why you say splhcb is non experimental. Lets see... Within Without you? The first three songs? Mr. Kite? There is more to expirimentalism than just music, they were the first grpup to write lyrics like this, and an entire song of sitar is pretty expirimental, i should say sooo.Ouch

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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 08 2007 at 07:43
Originally posted by schizoid_man77 schizoid_man77 wrote:

Magical Mystery is awesome, but i dont know why you say splhcb is non experimental. Lets see... Within Without you? The first three songs? Mr. Kite? There is more to expirimentalism than just music, they were the first grpup to write lyrics like this, and an entire song of sitar is pretty expirimental, i should say sooo.Ouch
To be fair, he didn't say Sgt Pepper was "non experimental", he said MMT was more experimental. With "I am the Walrus" and "Strawberry Fields" he may have a point, but the two albums were recorded at pretty much the same time and there's little to choose between the two.


Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 01:02
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by schizoid_man77 schizoid_man77 wrote:

Magical Mystery is awesome, but i dont know why you say splhcb is non experimental. Lets see... Within Without you? The first three songs? Mr. Kite? There is more to expirimentalism than just music, they were the first grpup to write lyrics like this, and an entire song of sitar is pretty expirimental, i should say sooo.Ouch
To be fair, he didn't say Sgt Pepper was "non experimental", he said MMT was more experimental. With "I am the Walrus" and "Strawberry Fields" he may have a point, but the two albums were recorded at pretty much the same time and there's little to choose between the two.
 
If you want me to be completely honest, I was havig a friend over, and he saw this thread and immedietly took the keyboard and ranted.
 
I for one am only interested in abbey road.Tongue


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Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 02:14

In hindsight, that didn't sound too much like you Schizo.

As for my opinion, I can give none. I've never heard Pepper in its completion; but I'm still betting that Stand Up is a better album. At least "Fat Man" is way catchier than whatever the Harrison sitar exercise on the second side was (and "Fat Man" doesn't even have a sitar! HA!).



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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson


Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 02:19
Originally posted by The Whistler The Whistler wrote:

In hindsight, that didn't sound too much like you Schizo.

As for my opinion, I can give none. I've never heard Pepper in its completion; but I'm still betting that Stand Up is a better album. At least "Fat Man" is way catchier than whatever the Harrison sitar exercise on the second side was (and "Fat Man" doesn't even have a sitar! HA!).

 
I agree, stand up is a great album, Tulls blues age was great!! Better than peppers? Debatable!


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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 02:27
I don't like any Beatles album pre Abbey Road (Obviously I only like two Beatles albums).
 
But what kind of arrogant would I be to say that the album is overrated?
 
If a huge number of persons that know about music like it and I believe it's overrated then there are two posibilities:
 
1.- I'm wrong and the album is a masterpiece.
2.- All the rest of the peopke are diots that believe this album is great when as a fact i say it's overrated crap.
 
But most likely......I have a different taste than the vast majority of people, not better, not worst only different
 
But if the albun got recognition by people who I know have knowledge of music, then I can't dare to say it's overrated, they must have found on it something I'm not capable of finding.
 
Please, stiop using the term overrated, this is one of the reasons why people believe we're arrogant a$$holes, because we believe out taste is better than the one of the rest of the world.
 
Iván
 


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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 03:13
Sgt Pepper achieved the main goal 99% of musicians wish to achieve - it was technically groundbreaking, musically innovative and its appeal reached out to millions of people all over the world whether they were into classical, reggae or any kind of musical genre or nationality - who else has managed that - DSOTM could be another good example, or the "White" album that followed?   That had many detractors, but "Pepper" was lauded by all and sundry as totally groundbreaking, the only downside was that it also crossed generations - my parents liked it!
As for being overrated amongst other Beatle music from the same period, Pepper wouldn't have been made without Revolver, and much on the MMT album was written around the same time but not originally intended for one album;  "Walrus" was an extremely outstanding song amongst others written specifically for the MMT TV special and "Fool on the Hill" was written during the Pepper sessions, "Hello Goodbye" "Strawberry Fields" and "All you need is Love" were originally 45 rpm singles, the most popular format at the time and not intended for album inclusion - radically  there were no singles released off  "Pepper" in the UK at the time, the album was intended to be listened to as a single entity  (another band who later adopted this anti -single philosophy permanently was Led Zeppelin).
It is easy to criticise in retrospect - Pepper is not overrated.
Smile
 


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Prog Archives Tour Van


Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:18
Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

Sgt Pepper achieved the main goal 99% of musicians wish to achieve - it was technically groundbreaking, musically innovative and its appeal reached out to millions of people all over the world
 
 
I shortened it, but this statement is untrue
 
I doubt 99%  of musicians/ bands care about musical innovation, I would say about 90% just want a bit of mainstream successCry


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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 20:30
Not Overrated.

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 20:33
only overrated by those who have no knowledge or concept of the history of rock.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: coleio
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 09:07
For christ's sake, the whole Beatles career is overrated.
I've never got the fuss, simple, mundane music. It would take something very special to convince me otherwise.


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Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!!


Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 12:26
Actually, The Beatles changed how i look at music completely. I used to think that i was always right, and that because i didn't like Sgt. Pepper it was overrated, but one day i got into it (through Abbey Road) and now i love the Beatles. From that day, i have never uttered the word overrated, other than ironically, because that was when i realised that there is no such thing, only music i haven't gotten into yet. Since then, i have also had much easier getting into music i would otherwise have thrown disregarded as crap.

For the record, "Within you without you" is a song i can barely stand, and would be the only reason why it might not actually get 5 stars from me in a review.


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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'


Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 12:32
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

only overrated by those who have no knowledge or concept of the history of rock.
 
 
ClapClapClap
 


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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "


Posted By: Leningrad
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 12:34
Nah.


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 15:38
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

only overrated by those who have no knowledge or concept of the history of rock.
 
 
Just as overrated as those who pretend to have all the answers....Wink


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Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 16:43
In the liner notes of the "Strange Days" album by The Doors (Rhino Reissue), it was written that producer/engineer Bruce Botnick played Sgt. Pepper to the band, and it gave them the idea of using the studio as an instrument in itself rather than only a means to record, and the results speak for themselves.
 
One can like or dislike Sgt. Pepper, but no one can deny the impact it had when it was released.


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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio


Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 16:47
Originally posted by Melomaniac Melomaniac wrote:

One can like or dislike Sgt. Pepper, but no one can deny the impact it had when it was released.

Tru dat


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 16:48
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

only overrated by those who have no knowledge or concept of the history of rock.


Better said, impossible Clap


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The best you can is good enough...


Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: August 10 2007 at 19:20
If boring and bland make an album overrated then Sgt Peppers is def way overrated. Not the Beatles at their best, and not all that significant, as they had already done a concept album in Yellow Submarine, or does that heap of crap not count?

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As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his.....


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 11 2007 at 04:12
Originally posted by Hyperborea Hyperborea wrote:

If boring and bland make an album overrated then Sgt Peppers is def way overrated. Not the Beatles at their best, and not all that significant, as they had already done a concept album in Yellow Submarine, or does that heap of crap not count?

"Not all that significant"? - you obviously haven't read anything about the effect that Sgt Pepper had on the world at the time of it's release.

And Yellow Submarine was after Sgt Pepper.


Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 12:01

When I first started getting seriously into music 20+ years ago, the widely held belief was that Sgt Pepper's was the best album ever. It would regularly top polls of greatest albums.

In the past few years, Revolver seems to have overtaken it.
 
Personally, I prefer The Rutles. Wink


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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."


Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: August 17 2007 at 21:10
If Joe Bloggs and the Dirt Eaters had realeased Sgt Peppers it would've died a death...unfortunately in their drug fuelled nonsense...the Beatles released it. And hoopla it's great...it is not...it is shear boredom and blandness, one of the Beatles weakest woks. A def up our own arses album...and def not prog....ever.

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As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his.....


Posted By: T.Rox
Date Posted: August 17 2007 at 21:57
Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

...but "Pepper" was lauded by all and sundry as totally groundbreaking, the only downside was that it also crossed generations - my parents liked it!
 
I would like to think this is a tongue-in-cheek comment, Mystic Fred Big%20smile
 
One of the great things to me is when my kids "discover" some artist or piece of music outside of my home and when they tell me about it I just happen to pull it out of the collection that is right under their noses! One day they will start to trawl through what I have just to see what is there Tongue
 
On the subject of kids, I had a great experience taking my two eldest boys to see Heaven And Hell (aka Black Sabbath) in concert here in Perth, Western Australia the other week. All three of us got into the concert ... Iommi & Dio were in fine form ... we were all blown away by the drum solo ... and we all hated Down, the support act ... all in all a pretty good night of generation gap bridging Wink


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"Without prog, life would be a mistake."



...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2007 at 22:01
Originally posted by T.Rox T.Rox wrote:

Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

...but "Pepper" was lauded by all and sundry as totally groundbreaking, the only downside was that it also crossed generations - my parents liked it!
 
I would like to think this is a tongue-in-cheek comment, Mystic Fred Big%20smile
 
One of the great things to me is when my kids "discover" some artist or piece of music outside of my home and when they tell me about it I just happen to pull it out of the collection that is right under their noses! One day they will start to trawl through what I have just to see what is there Tongue
 
On the subject of kids, I had a great experience taking my two eldest boys to see Heaven And Hell (aka Black Sabbath) in concert here in Perth, Western Australia the other week. All three of us got into the concert ... Iommi & Dio were in fine form ... we were all blown away by the drum solo ... and we all hated Down, the support act ... all in all a pretty good night of generation gap bridging Wink


Clap now that is giving the kids a good musical education hahahha.


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: meinmatrix
Date Posted: August 18 2007 at 05:49
Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

Sgt Pepper achieved the main goal 99% of musicians wish to achieve - it was technically groundbreaking, musically innovative and its appeal reached out to millions of people all over the world whether they were into classical, reggae or any kind of musical genre or nationality - who else has managed that - DSOTM could be another good example, or the "White" album that followed?   That had many detractors, but "Pepper" was lauded by all and sundry as totally groundbreaking, the only downside was that it also crossed generations - my parents liked it!
As for being overrated amongst other Beatle music from the same period, Pepper wouldn't have been made without Revolver, and much on the MMT album was written around the same time but not originally intended for one album;  "Walrus" was an extremely outstanding song amongst others written specifically for the MMT TV special and "Fool on the Hill" was written during the Pepper sessions, "Hello Goodbye" "Strawberry Fields" and "All you need is Love" were originally 45 rpm singles, the most popular format at the time and not intended for album inclusion - radically  there were no singles released off  "Pepper" in the UK at the time, the album was intended to be listened to as a single entity  (another band who later adopted this anti -single philosophy permanently was Led Zeppelin).
It is easy to criticise in retrospect - Pepper is not overrated.
Smile
 


Excatly my thoughts and a great introduction to the background of this 1967 release. Thank you!



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Posted By: akin
Date Posted: August 18 2007 at 15:38
I was about to express my opinion, but Ivan´s statement already summarizes it. It was not a person or a small group that decided that Sgt. Peppers was groundbreaking. It was naturally groundbreaking, like you or not the album. And you can confirm this because it is part of the well-recorded history. You can do a detailed search and learned how it was important at different places and times.


Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: August 18 2007 at 15:52
Magical Mystery Tour better than Sgt. Pepper's? Surely you jest. Pepper's is wonderful all the way through, and it tore the walls of rock. Without it there would have been no Magical Mystery Tour. Sgt. Pepper's prved that change could be made to rock. MMT was good, but I'd only give it three stars, while the Sarge gets five without question.


Posted By: febus
Date Posted: August 18 2007 at 15:55
The few whiners here will never hide the fact that SERGEANT PEPPERS was a groundbreaking work and its ramifications  went well further than the musical world to extend to the modification of the lifestyle of the youth back then , their way of thinking, thus changing the rules of life and ''modernize' our society .
 
There are people who don't get SERGEANT PEPPERs;some also don't like FOIE GRAS and CHAMPAGNE! Big%20smile I do!!!


Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: August 20 2007 at 19:07
May i bring my pedantic hat to this great site? Earlier in this discussion i stated that Yellow Submarine had been released before Sgt Peppers, i apologise i was wrong. What i should've said was that Yellow Submarine was recorded before Sgt peppers and a single was released in 1966..the 5th of August to be exact. So, Yellow Submarine was the first concept album the Beatles recorded.....and it's mince, a bit like Sgt Pepper.
 
I get all Sgt Peppers was/is still doesn't make it  agood album, one of the very few Beatles albums i would not listen to.


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As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his.....


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 21 2007 at 03:46
Originally posted by Hyperborea Hyperborea wrote:

May i bring my pedantic hat to this great site? Earlier in this discussion i stated that Yellow Submarine had been released before Sgt Peppers, i apologise i was wrong. What i should've said was that Yellow Submarine was recorded before Sgt peppers and a single was released in 1966..the 5th of August to be exact. So, Yellow Submarine was the first concept album the Beatles recorded.....and it's mince, a bit like Sgt Pepper.
 
I get all Sgt Peppers was/is still doesn't make it  agood album, one of the very few Beatles albums i would not listen to.

Sorry to be pedantic back but, although the song "Yellow Submarine" was recorded before Sgt Pepper as you say most of the album was recorded afterwards e.g. Hey Bulldog was recorded in Feb 1968. Also it's not really a concept album as the Beatles' songs on it (title track apart) bear no relation to the story in the film. It's a soundtrack.


Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: August 22 2007 at 19:43
Most of the album was recorded 4 months before the awful grungent poppers was. It was still a story about a yellow submarine, which makes it as conceptual as sgt peppers.

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As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his.....


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 04:13
Another thing to remember is that the journey from "Help" to "A Day in the Life" took less than 2 years, with Rubber Soul and Revolver in between. Most bands take that long (and more) to release one album these days.


Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: August 23 2007 at 14:14
Not my favorite Beatles album, but certainly not "overrrated".  


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 12:08
Originally posted by Peto Peto wrote:

I just think that Sgt. Pepper is horrendously overrated.
Yes, just horrendous!Shocked
 
And don't get me started on violent religious fundamentalism, child labour, or the destruction of the environment -- they're almost as bad! Angry
 
 
"Picture yourself in a boat on a river,
With tangerine trees and marmalade skies
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly,
A girl with kaleidoscope eyes."
 
 
The horror! The horror!


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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: Floydian42
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 14:39
I think the Beatles in general are overrated. I appreciate what they did with music, but some better things came after it. Including some more complicated music. The may have triggered a new wave in music, but that doesn't mean they were the best of the bunch.


Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: August 24 2007 at 14:48
Originally posted by Peto Peto wrote:

This is not an anti-Beatles entry. I just think that Sgt. Pepper is horrendously overrated. Look at the albums that came before and after it - Revolver and Magical mystery tour. Both are much better in terms of songwriting, plus Magoical mystery tour is even more experimental than Sgt.
Revolver and Magical mystery tour should definitely be praised much more than that one as a whole.

What do you think?
 
Excuse me for just a second
 
 
 
   Peto                           
 
 
 
 
OK...all better.
 
Wink


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Posted By: KeleCableII
Date Posted: August 25 2007 at 17:28
I thank the Beatles for getting things started but lots of bands just did things better.


Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: August 25 2007 at 17:42
Originally posted by KeleCableII KeleCableII wrote:

I thank the Beatles for getting things started but lots of bands just did things better.


That doesn't follow some logic; it's all a matter of tastes (like always). For me, the fact that many bands after The Beatles (mostly prog ones) did more complex, experimental and adventurous music doesn't mean that they were better..... 'Better' is a term of endless connotations...... Don't know where are you based on to say that.

IMO, The Beatles choose the most simple and easy way to get all the average band can desire: popularity, awards and, overall, very good music; complex or not, skilful or not, prog or not......... good music with incredible feeling and creativity...... Aren't those things essential in any incarnation of art?

Big%20smile


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The best you can is good enough...


Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 25 2007 at 21:00
Originally posted by KeleCableII KeleCableII wrote:

I thank the Beatles for getting things started but lots of bands just did things better.
 
Agreed, but not all things... punk


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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: August 26 2007 at 11:17
Originally posted by KeleCableII KeleCableII wrote:

I thank the Beatles for getting things started but lots of bands just did things better.


I would prefer you would say "but lots of bands just did things more to my liking." It hard to say the Beatles didn't do it the way they wanted. Being "better" is truly subjective.

The band is incredible. Always was, always will be. In my eyes, you need to understand everything surrounding them in music during the time the were writing. I strongly believe they have done what no other band has ever matched or even come close to.




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Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: August 26 2007 at 15:08
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by KeleCableII KeleCableII wrote:

I thank the Beatles for getting things started but lots of bands just did things better.


I would prefer you would say "but lots of bands just did things more to my liking." It hard to say the Beatles didn't do it the way they wanted. Being "better" is truly subjective.

The band is incredible. Always was, always will be. In my eyes, you need to understand everything surrounding them in music during the time the were writing. I strongly believe they have done what no other band has ever matched or even come close to.


Everybody seems to forget the most important notion in this debate : context.
Pop and rock music was mainly uncharted territory back then, everything remained to be done.  So it was a lot easier to be original then than it is today.  That is why, I think, this era is regarded as wonderful musically, simply because nothing was done and everyone was eager to explore... until the "Industry" sunk it's teeth in there (but that's another story...).  Let's just say The Beatles are "The Lighthouse Band" from that era, taking the credit for almost everything that happened, but let's face it and be honest with ourselves : they were far from being "The Best", and they were influenced by what was going on around them.  I firmly believe that any other band from that period could have done the same.  Let's also not forget that while they were in their god-awful "bubble gum pop" period, other bands were already being more original, it's just that the popularity of The Beatles overshadowed everything else...


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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio


Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: August 26 2007 at 15:38
Originally posted by Melomaniac Melomaniac wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by KeleCableII KeleCableII wrote:

I thank the Beatles for getting things started but lots of bands just did things better.


I would prefer you would say "but lots of bands just did things more to my liking." It hard to say the Beatles didn't do it the way they wanted. Being "better" is truly subjective.

The band is incredible. Always was, always will be. In my eyes, you need to understand everything surrounding them in music during the time the were writing. I strongly believe they have done what no other band has ever matched or even come close to.


Everybody seems to forget the most important notion in this debate : context.
Pop and rock music was mainly uncharted territory back then, everything remained to be done.  So it was a lot easier to be original then than it is today.  That is why, I think, this era is regarded as wonderful musically, simply because nothing was done and everyone was eager to explore... until the "Industry" sunk it's teeth in there (but that's another story...).  Let's just say The Beatles are "The Lighthouse Band" from that era, taking the credit for almost everything that happened, but let's face it and be honest with ourselves : they were far from being "The Best", and they were influenced by what was going on around them.  I firmly believe that any other band from that period could have done the same.  Let's also not forget that while they were in their god-awful "bubble gum pop" period, other bands were already being more original, it's just that the popularity of The Beatles overshadowed everything else...


The Beatles quite possibly could be THE most influential band. Most bands looked to them for the new thing. It was exciting to watch them and see what they were going to do next. The Beatles certainly provided a beacon.  They pulled in nothing new, in the sense that their inspiration was as you point out, from other elements surrounding them. Of the top of my head, I can't think of anything truly original, however their artistry, including that of George Martin, put them well ahead of the pack. Not to mention the strong song writing helped keep those hits popping out.. 

Now I want to point out that while any other band had potential to accomplish what the Beatles did, no other band did. What we witnessed were copy cat bands. The Beatles in essence said, "look here's the mold everyone else is following and we are not conforming to it.  Doing what we want with no limitations." Their fame allowed them to do it and still be at the top of the heap. Everyone else said, "if they can do it, so can we." From there we see all types of music come out. And that is one of the most important things to happen to rock music.

Calling them the best depends on how they are being measured, or maybe what is being used to measure them. They were not Prog monsters. But they did provide some of the elements we love. They showed newer bands the way.


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Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: August 26 2007 at 15:45
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by Melomaniac Melomaniac wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by KeleCableII KeleCableII wrote:

I thank the Beatles for getting things started but lots of bands just did things better.


I would prefer you would say "but lots of bands just did things more to my liking." It hard to say the Beatles didn't do it the way they wanted. Being "better" is truly subjective.

The band is incredible. Always was, always will be. In my eyes, you need to understand everything surrounding them in music during the time the were writing. I strongly believe they have done what no other band has ever matched or even come close to.


Everybody seems to forget the most important notion in this debate : context.
Pop and rock music was mainly uncharted territory back then, everything remained to be done.  So it was a lot easier to be original then than it is today.  That is why, I think, this era is regarded as wonderful musically, simply because nothing was done and everyone was eager to explore... until the "Industry" sunk it's teeth in there (but that's another story...).  Let's just say The Beatles are "The Lighthouse Band" from that era, taking the credit for almost everything that happened, but let's face it and be honest with ourselves : they were far from being "The Best", and they were influenced by what was going on around them.  I firmly believe that any other band from that period could have done the same.  Let's also not forget that while they were in their god-awful "bubble gum pop" period, other bands were already being more original, it's just that the popularity of The Beatles overshadowed everything else...




Now I want to point out that while any other band had potential to accomplish what the Beatles did, no other band did. What we witnessed were copy cat bands. The Beatles in essence said, "look here's the mold everyone else is following and we are not conforming to it.  Doing what we want with no limitations." Their fame allowed them to do it and still be at the top of the heap. Everyone else said, "if they can do it, so can we." From there we see all types of music come out. And that is one of the most important things to happen to rock music.


If only for what I bolded out of your text, I agree, they were the most influential band.  Going out of that awful bubble gum period and try something else (not only drugs, but music too!!!)


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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio


Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: August 27 2007 at 01:05
Originally posted by Melomaniac Melomaniac wrote:

Everybody seems to forget the most important notion in this debate : context.
 
 
Not me, for one -- I just can't be bothered always taking this rather arrogant "overrated" stuff seriously all of the time.Stern%20Smile
 
 
 
Ermm But I'll try again, anyway:
 
To a large extent, to really "get" what the Beatles were able to achieve, you HAD TO BE THERE. (Or, at least, try to find out what things were like, back then.) That's true in general of looking back at a lot of art that was huge or influential in its day (or later): stop judging it by 21st Century standards and expectations, and view it as a window on the past. (This will take effort, though, which puts many off immediately)
 
Sgt Pepper's came out in '67 (and created a huge stir in the music world) -- not 2007.
 
(Romeo and Juliet can't just say "screw you, Dad" and run away together to hang out at the mall, if you get my drift!)
 
If you enjoy modern plays more than Shakespeare, don't really get what he achieved in the context of his day, and can't "relate" to the way his characters speak, then that makes the ol' Bard "overrated," does it?
 
Art like Sgt Pepper's, or Shakespeare, or Beethoven's Ninth, last and have a place of honour in the annals of art history because they are great, not because we are told to like them, or because all of the great minds who have pronounced this stuff great, and/or have been influenced by it, are deluded, or know less about such things than you.
 
Having narrower tastes in art, or judging everything by your personal, narrow, modern standards, does not make you "right," and the thousands or millions of appreciative fans, critics and scholars who've come before you suddenly "wrong."
 
"I don't like it" (or "I don't understand or respect it") does NOT equal "I know the TRUTH. It's not very good, and all of the people who said or say otherwise, are deluded."
 
Purest ignorant arrogance -- and, in my experience as a teacher (and former student) usually a sign of a youngster who doesn't know what the heck he's talking about, and who just can't be bothered to put in the time and effort needed for deeper understanding, and an informed appreciation for what is before him:
 
Shocked "I read the first ten pages of Great Expectations and it sucked! I'll just rent the movie for the assignment. R.L. Stine is WAY better, anyway! "
 
(Or "I don't know much about art, but I know what I like.")
 
Uh huh. Another expert critic is born....Dead


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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.


Posted By: Guzzman
Date Posted: August 27 2007 at 03:31
^^ Thanks for those very true words, Peter !!! Clap  Clap Clap

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"We've got to get in to get out"


Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: August 27 2007 at 11:45
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

 
Not me, for one -- I just can't be bothered always taking this rather arrogant "overrated" stuff seriously all of the time.Stern%20Smile
 


I agree that a person view of that calling something well established over-rated is arrogant. Or worse, stems from an incomplete knowledge base. Sgt. Pepper's has the acclaim of many great artists even up to this day. This doesn't mean that other albums, such as Revolver, or Abbey Road are less important. As far as preference goes, I prefer a few other Beatles albums before SPLHCB, but that is all it is...preference.



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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 10:34
[QUOTE=Hyperborea]If boring and bland make an album overrated then Sgt Peppers is def way overrated. Not the Beatles at their best, and not all that significant, as they had already done a concept album in Yellow Submarine, or does that heap of crap not count?[/QUOTe
 
I'm guessing this is a joke and Yellow Submarine is a soundtrack to a cartoon, not really a concept album. Oh, and it was released in 1969.


Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 21:11
Are we really still discussing this?

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Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 21:14
Abbey Road and Revolver have better tunes and just sound well, better.

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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: September 22 2007 at 23:09
O.K., so here goes my take on the whole damn shooting match  - The Sex Pistols "Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols, The Clash's London Calling, King Crimson's The Court of the Crimson King, Genesis' Foxtrot, the Beatles' Sgt Pepper, Rush's Hemispheres, etc etc are not always their most popular or best album. But they did have a certain impact that exceeded other releases in their catalogue.
Overrated needs to take into context that qualification. The Beach Boys are certainly not "Rock" music's most adventurous act. But Pet Sounds sure as hell set off some creative fireworks amongst its' listeners. So, if you are among the Negative Ninnies (as that great American Spiro Agnew liked to say) that just hate such praise for an album you hate, please ... mellow out Moogie. They are usually just signposts where things musical took a new turn. Yes, for me, Abbey Road is better that Sgt Pepper. But the impact of the Pepper album far surpasses any influence Abbey Road had.
So, reflect, genuflect, if you need to; accept that some albums did more to open things up than your favourites (Hey, I still don't see the big deal about the Velvet Underground); just don't spend too much of your LIMITED life span spouting how this or that album is not as "great" as EVERYONE else says. Like, who cares. You can freely listen to the Creation's debut as much as you like. Hey, play Country Joe & the Fish's second album to death, if you want to go that way. But, please accept that some records (oh, that ol' term) have impacted modern music more than others, OK. Smile


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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.


Posted By: Lanor
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 09:50
My personal concern is more with what is underrated.

And it really comes down to what micky perfectlyyyyy stated.


Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

only overrated by those who have no knowledge or concept of the history of rock.


Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 07:47
Not overrated.... can't ever be overrated.


Posted By: Revolver
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 20:36
People are forgetting that practically every early pioneer of progressive rock was influenced by this album includiing King Crimson and Yes.  A  Day In The Life might be the first symphonic prog song ever. Within You Without You is very progressive and even Lucy in the Sky With Diamond has mixed meters this album along with Strawberry Fields are one of  most important factors of progressive music starting.



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