Tears for Fears, prog at least related?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40476
Printed Date: January 23 2025 at 05:10
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Topic: Tears for Fears, prog at least related?
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Subject: Tears for Fears, prog at least related?
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 22:26
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Today I was listening again to "The Seeds of Love" and I really wonder why they are not included here, at least as prog related. I can hear that it's not very experimental, new etc. but the music hold a lot of quality. In my opinion they should be here under prog related or even Art Rock. The best the '80 had to offer! I checked and there is only one thread about them (around December 2006) without asking really if they should be included here. So...what is your opinion? I think they should be included in prog related. ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Replies:
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 22:32
There was a thread in the collabs zone and they were rejected...
From what I've heard, good but not prog. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
[5.88%]Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 22:45
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^^^ Difficult t interprete that. Most collabs think they are not prog. But do they think also they are not prog related? That would amaze me very much, since I think a lot of their work is strongly prog-related (or prog sometimes). just listen to "Batman's Song", "Swords and Knives" and "Woman in Chains" of "the Seeds of Love" album.... ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 22:57
Well, Guillermo made a very good case pro the inclusion:
But the experts mostly said no.
etc... If Seeds Of Love is the only album that qualifies, then it's not enough(has to be two) but don't forget good music isn't necesarily prog. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Except strangely enough for that Shout track
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 23:13
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^^^ I agree very much with Guillermo, especially on "The Seeds of Love" album. I agree that the rest is somewhat less, but that album alone merits inclusion! ------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 03:05
Tears for Fears are new romantics not Prog! 
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 05:56
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And somehow Godley and Cream are accepted... Strange world, this one... ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 08:27
...There is no relationship between Godley and Creme (who produced a three-disc progressive concept album called Consequences) and Tears For Fears. TFF are more closely related to Talk Talk (in terms of music, era and genre), however TT were not included here for their Pop albums, but for their last three progressive-influenced albums. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 09:02
Which are post rock albums "avant la lettre"
As for G&C, they were accepted the day 10 CC was accepted since G & C were the more progressive of the quartet. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 10:32
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I like their music very much - but Prog-related? I would say Roland Orzabal (who f.e. worked with Nick D'Virgilio) could be a candidate but Curt Smith? It's a fundamental problem with this category  and we must pay attention - ("a wide subgenre") - many many artists have some relations to prog ...But are TEARS FOR FEARS fitting into the PA definition of prog-related? Are they clearly influenced by Progressive Rock? I don't think this matches ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Rivertree" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 01:26
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Tears for Fears?!?!? I have been reading through some strange rec's here.
How about Michael Jackson. Thriller was pretty out there.
Or maybe Lynard Skynard.
Or Peter Tosh. To quote the man, "I need equal rights and justice". Everybodies prog! ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 01:53
Your argument pretty sumarizes the problem here.
Many Progheads tend to believe that quality music or the best a decade had to offer has to be Prog, that's not a reason or an argument. Just ask this questions:
This two questions are refered to the quality of the music, it may be good. even a masterpiece or the best of a decade, but they may be Pop, Jazz, Disco, Punk, etc etc. The only question that matters is:
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 06:04
 That is the essence of the problem. Some bands from the Lost Decade (the 80's) may have had suppressed Prog sensibilities, but the real test came when the commercial pressure not to be stigmatised by the Prog label was removed, did they actually become progressive? One or two bands did, but most, including TFT, did not - they continued to follow their existing paths, trying to recreate their earlier pop sucesses.
There were dozens of great bands in the Lost Decade, great quirky, boundary pushing bands, bands who had the talent to be progressive and probably would have been if the paradigm shift at the end of the 70's had not occured, but in general they faded and died before realising their prog potential. The decade threw up some wonderful music mavericks (Mark Hollis, Siouxsie Sioux, Robert Smith, Toyah, Jullian Cope, David Silvian, Ian McNabb, Mark Sandman, John Foxx, Roland Orzabal et al) who dipped their toes in the pool of prog but never took the full-body-immersion plunge.
Twenty years on - if those bands went Prog, we would know about them and they would be gracing the pages of this site like bands such as Marillion and IQ who swam against the tide do. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 21:14
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@ Dean: David Sylvian is included our database, in Art Rock - a fully prog subgenre. He collaborated with various prog artists, including Robert Fripp and Holger Czukay of Can. I've got two of his solo albums, "Brilliant Trees" and "Secrets of the Beehive", which are undoubtedly prog, even if of course not of the symphonic bent. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 05:47
I knew that  I got carried away and typed his name without thinking, and of course Japan are listed here too - but as Rain Tree Crow.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: Ely78
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 05:59
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For me no. Because in the 80's the only True POP synonimous of True Prog is represented by Franco Battiato's music. This because Battiato produced an Avant Garde POP And this is one of the foundations of Prog music. ------------- When the love becomes poetry, distant from the eyes (Quando l'Amore Diventa poesia/ Lontano Dagli occhi [Aphrodite's Child) |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 06:01
I confirm!!!      ------------- 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 09:20
Interesting info, Dean - we had Japan for months in the Art Rock chart, but couldn't decide for their addition. Then Micky and I left the team, and I think the current members rejected them. Now, I suppose it's time for a reassessment of their submission. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 09:26
Japan was indeed hold of short from a final decision and was finally casted out before you and micky left. The current team just stands by your decision of not approving for a good solid time, Japan in the Archives. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:33
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Japan are a good example of what I was saying in my post. They were a very good Art Pop/Rock band and had clearly evident progressive 'feelings' without actually being progressive, however successive albums were become more and more progressive - but they never really became a progressive Art Rock band in the accepted sense.
When they reformed in 1989/90 the result is a true Art Rock prog album. Karn, Barbieri and Jansen (and the record label) wanted to release the album as Japan, but Sylvian insisted they used the name Rain Tree Crow. If they had used the name Japan, then the transition would be complete, but they didn't.
It could be argued that Japan=RTC=Japan ... the music on RTC is different from Tin Drum (say) but not one million miles away; conversly you could say that different name = different band otherwise Simon Dupree and the Big Sound would be listed in the PA just because they changed their name to Gentle Giant.
Wikipedia lists RTC as just another Japan album, but when has Wiki ever been the arbiter of anything? ------------- What? |
Posted By: william314159
Date Posted: August 19 2007 at 22:31
| who the hell cares, i love them |
Posted By: jaco0101
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 16:35
| Absolutely true. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 22:08
Some of us care, because we joined Prog Archives essentially because it's a Progressive Rock site, a lot of compromises has been done, but Tears for Fears are Romantic Post New Wave Synth Pop and nothing else.
I love the music of:
But I wouldn't dare to make a case of addition, because despite some may consider us close minded, this a Progressive Rock site and only Progressive Rock bands or those who are DIRECTLY and CLEARLY related should be added. There are POP, Punk or New Wave sites that wouldn't include Yes or Genesis, simply because they don't belong there and bnobody of us will feel offended if King Crimsoin doesn't figure in the Punk 77 site (Well they are there to be insulted as an example of anti-music), if somebody needs to search in an open and general music site, there's always Allmusic, which is a good resource despite their usual inaccuracies.
My two cents.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 22:18
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not that I think they belong here... or care... or even know anything by them that wasn't on a movie soundtrack but I have to ask... when we get sweeping statements like that.... just what is a ..... 'progressive rock' band? I'm quite sure it isn't bands who did only prog albums then retired to obscurity just so they could be know to all the progheads of the world as a ...yep.... progressive rock band. Silly me... I thought it is groups that explored and did progressive rock.. regardless of what they did before.. or later... otherwise.... we should retire all the genre teams and just admit groups that are KNOWN prog groups hahahha. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 04:32
Just our luck....
a Newbie who uses the Search function to bring back an old closed subject
(we generally have to pound into newbie's brain to use the search facility and when we don't have to, we've got one Noobs that does it right, but WRONGLY
   )Welcome Jaco  ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 08:57
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They had some proggy moments their first two albums. I Believe on Songs from the Big Chair was a tribute to Robert Wyatt, comes to mind. I lost interest in them after that but still have those two in my collection. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 09:35
In my humble opinion, their last three albums are a lot closer to art-rock than their first works. Of course "being close" isn't the same as just "being". ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 13:02
all the bands in this list have great connection with Prog. But these bands are good for PA? In certain sense: The who (are in PA), Meat loaf, Coldplay and Mountain are the sole Prog Related bands in this list that have good reasons for a great inclusion in PA (in PR). But I think that bands like Tears For Fears or Dire Straits or Toto are too borderline case for PR. -------------
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 14:06
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Slightly off topic, but how are we locating the position for the prog borderline? Or prog-related? Shall we make a gradation from "prog enough" to "certainly not"? This is the "complexity lane": David Sylvian - Japan - Talk Talk - XTC - The Police - Yazoo - Eurythmics - U2 (all great bands) So, the borderline will be somewhere around XTC. This is the "collaboration with proggers" lane: The Police - David Sylvian - Talking Heads - XTC - Public Image Limited... Please note PiL are much more avant-garde, complex or unusual than some other band(s) with stronger prog ties... Many more lanes could be done: "a number of proggy songs/albums", "relevancy", how influential they were", "how influenced were they", "theatrical approach", "amount of fusioning with other genres", even the "stuff that might be appealing to a prog rock fan"! So start making charts, collabs! so we can all end a chapter in a "Prog Related" book, section "The Lost Decade".  ------------- |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 15:11
interesting post Clarke... there are no positions on prog borderlines ... at least in my mind... or if I speak for Dean.. .I don't think he has such things as well. Hate to make a trite reply to your post... but we (the Xover team that deals with the prog side of these additions) simply evaluate a group that comes to us based our our notions of prog. Which could be be charted out I guess if we took the time and were given a list of groups... but the trick is.. .every single person's chart will be different. take Japan. .a sore subject since both of us agreed it was prog, along with others not formally on the team. They were added.. and after some real bitching and complaining then moved to PR to ease the unsettled waters. (a mistake I will never make again. .since I have no doubts as those who bitched would ever do such a thing themselves). Japan on your chart is worthy of full prog addition.. to others it is not. That is something some people have never got through their heads here. This is a site made of all kinds of views of prog, and the site will reflect it. my point in a long about way.. there is no position.. no borderline... we call them as we see them.. and until the admins decide we ain't calling them the right way and fire us we will continue to do so. Tacit approval being taken that after however long it has been.. that we have not been fired ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: everyone
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 19:18
| If you think that Tears for Fears belongs in the PA, so do the Pretty Things for their S. F. Sorrow and Parachute albums and the 90's band Jellyfish. I forgot Oasis. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 19:32
Well I totally confess to not having heard anything since the first two. Anywhere I can go to hear the last three without having to pay first? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 18 2008 at 19:34
don't forget Pat Benatar either hahahha.. and for the trouble... we'll toss her daughter in as a bonus gift *runs and hides* ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 19 2008 at 01:49
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I like Tears for Fears...
If we were a pop-rock or just pop site, they would be the new VDGG...
But we're not, so no room for the duo... ------------- 
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