A well considered and appropriate thread title can make all the difference to the success of a thread. People will often remember a thread a few weeks after it has disappeared from view. When they search for it, they will expect to find certain key words such as the band name in the title. In this case, the thread title is weak and give no indication of the topic being raised.

 

Secondly, the initial post in a thread will often set the mood for the discuussion. In this case, the post is confrontational and is bound to upset those who think the band mentioned has a place here. Often, it ain't what you say, it's the way you say it.

 

No rules have been broken here, the points made above are intended only to show how thread such as this could be more successful and less likely to end in closure.

 

 

I was just thinking the same thing!

 

Prog and let Prog. Forever and whatever. Amen.

 

What chapter of Dale Carnegie's book was that from?  

 

Could you explain how Lacrimosa are "noise makers"?

 

I cannot see how that phrase can apply to them: there is no discordancy their music - its not as if they are playing symphonic black metal or grindcore. The music they make is symphonic to a degree in that they make heavy use of string arrangements and programming, but it is also melodic, ethereal, complex and multilayered. Although they are considerably less 'metal' than many of the Progressive-metal bands listed here, when they do hit-metal they rock with more orignality than most (some of the guitar solos are the sweetest ever recorded - pure bliss IMHO) and it is still Progressive Metal by the accepted definition (and not just another Dream Theater clone).

 

Tilo Wolff's vocals are about the only gothic sounding element about them, and to be fair, he is not that different to some of the Krautrock vocalists in style, but you cannot argue with the beauty of Anne Nurmi's vocals surely.

 

If you are going to be negative, you have to be more specific - what is it exactly that you do not like about Lacrimosa that makes them unworthy of a listing in the PA?

  

(I'm also struggling with the phrase "gothic punks", but that's another issue)

Well said indeed.

I'm glad to see that people seem to have matured since i left here over a year ago. I was posts that began like this that drove me away: anti-women posts and posts that whine about any bands that they dont think are prog that are on the collection.

Take my ex-bf for example who introduced me to here: obviously has good taste but he's a pessimistic little unwise whiney git actually (or WAS anyhoo)... I remember searching his name and coming up with some hate comments from him against Radiohead. It's not that I like Radiohead (although I do very much and have since I was 14) but it was the way he went about things.

it you don't like it- don't LISTEn to it people!

Better to keep your mouth shut than openly attack people on such a matter of opinion.

But here's the thing: there'll be no HIP HOP in progarchives. THAT is what matters.

 

Prime example:  Did you see the freaking outfits Zoro was wearign with Lenny Kravitz after Cindy Blackman left.  Dam dude, you think he liked those clothes.

 

joe

You don't like them, I can accept that - there are some bands here I do not like too. Yet Lacrimosa make you angry enough to decry them in two seperate threads for being "noise makers" and stating categorically that they do not belong here, yet ... whatever...

 

I despair, I really do  

 

Well, he is the prog of noise I guess!!

 

Did someone say Daleks? 

 

It's the Doctor to the rescue. 

 

Speaking of Merzbow...didn't he release a 50-cd boxset recently?  And if memory serves correctly it was all supposed to be unreleased stuff.  For the small pricetag of something like 450 pounds.  Yikes.   Forget the Daleks, that stuff will kill, if the price doesn't get ya, the noise will!

 

I thought Goth and Punk were usually 2 separate genres.

I agree, but a nice concept though - like Hawkwind were Space-punks, Van der Graaf were Art-goths, Yes were Techno-punks, Gong were Punk-hippies, King Crimson were Gothic-erm-goths.

Ah, yes, their lyrics are a little purile at times - one of the few times I've ever been happy not to understand the German language. Fassade is one of their "okay" abums, Satura, Stille and Elodia are better. I'll have to check out Element of Crime sometime.

 

If we talk about noisy bands not deserving to be here, well, I have a few candidates MUCH MORE deserving the "noisy" adjective...

 

Their use of symphonic orchestra and structures, their instrumentation... they derserve to be here....

Lacrimosa span three major genres and don't really fit in any of them - you'll find them mentioned on Metal, Goth and Prog sites where they will have as many detractors as supporters and the detractors will always claim they are not metal enough, or not goth enough or not prog enough. It is a common complaint levelled at all Gothic-Metal bands - too metal to be goth, to gothic to be metal - so when they add a progressive element into their music it only serves to strengthen the arguments against them from the other two.

 

I agree with you on the symphonic/orchestral point. I think we overplay the symphonic word here and use it too easily to justify a band being even remotely prog. Bands like Dimmu Borgir, who are probably one of the most symphonic bands going at the moment, (and from what I have observed, fairly well respected by several members here), are not progressive at all (nor would they want to be).

 

In Tilo Wolff's defense I would say that the orchestral parts of Lacrimosa's music is not only integral, they are the basis from which the songs were composed, but to describe them as symphonic per se just because they are orchestral sounding would be inaccurate as there are other levels to the compositions, (unlike Therion or Haggard for example, who I find to be a little 1-dimensional musically, but enormous fun to listen too).

 

You have not listed which albums of theirs you have heard, but if it was Elodia or Stille, then you are unlikely to change your mind.

 

I must admit I was surprised to find Lacrimosa here, but not disapointed.

 

I do find it sad, however, is that as far as I can tell this whole thread came into existance because someone made a judgement on this great band based upon their physical image (gothic-punks!) rather than on their music. If we all did that then Sleepytime Gorilla Museum and a lot of the other RIO/Advant acts would never be listed.

 

I didn't like Once much - I hate to level the word "commercial" at it in a negative way, because that implies a level of prog-elitism on my part, but unfortunately that is what seperates it from Oceanborne or Wishmaster IMHO.

 

Moreover, prog, like all other genres of music, changes over time, which means the inclusion of performers into the genre at one point in time who might not have been included at some other point in time.