Another victim of the 'Death of CD's'
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39478
Printed Date: February 21 2025 at 04:34
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Topic: Another victim of the 'Death of CD's'
Posted By: Blacksword
Subject: Another victim of the 'Death of CD's'
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 12:56
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Tragically, UK based music retailer FOPP is to close all it's stores. It blames serious slumps in CD sales.
The London branch of FOPP sold shelves full of prog rock, for as little as £3.00, as well as latest releases. The company blames downloading for nose diving CD sales. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6252300.stm - FOPP RIP Sad news. Does anyone here prefer buying CD's to downloading, or am I the last one? 
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Replies:
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 13:04
That sucks. I hate it when this kind of stuff happens.  
I'm right there with ya in preferring to buy CDs versus downloading. Album art and the overall "package" is very important in my opinion to the whole experience of enjoying music. Plus, when I spend my money on something, I want something to show for it. Legal access to a file on my computer doesn't cut it. Besides, it's soooo much cooler to say "Yeah, I've got x number of albums in my collection" and have shelves full of them instead of "Yeah, I've got x number of gigs/songs on my iPod." 
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Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 13:08
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Yeah....... CD's (or vinyl) is way better than a download.
The instant download-a-life revoloution is a killer.
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 13:17
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Nope!!! I'd MUCH rather go into a store and buy a disc rather than downloading. Just another sign of society getting lazy.
E ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 13:18
This is a tragedy. I love a hard copy, a package that comes with pics, lyrics, a cover, a CD that I can physically put into my stereo, a casew that I can add to my collection, something I can SEE. I don't like downloading at all... I have an IPod only because without it I would find even more excuses not to work out in the gym ( ), but everything I put in there comes from my own cd's, and I only listen to the damn device in the gym or in special ocassions. A tragedy...------------- 
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 13:21
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Have to say I'm very much of the pro-CD camp, personally. You don't get the artwork or the thrill of going out and getting an album when it comes out with downloads.
As I just posted on Progressive Ears, I've been buying in Fopp stores across the UK since 2002, when I stumbled upon their Bristol store whilst on a day trip. I was only in there on Wednesday, I bought 'Sextant' by Herbie Hancock and 'My Spanish Heart' by Chick Corea for £5 each. Incidentally, where I am in Cardiff, they only just opened a university store a few weeks ago (actually where I bought those 2 cds!!)...Shall be sad to see them go- they were a tonic amongst the increasingly conservative big chain stores in the UK.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 13:23
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It seems to me that music is becoming ever more presented as something disposable, and temporary.
I think people like us who appreciate album art work, and the pleasure of having enormous CD collections to boast of, are a dying breed. It is a real shame. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 13:26
I'd only been in there a couple of times. On my last visit I came out with 'Who's Next' 'Voyage of the Acolyte' 'Queen II' and 'Songs from the Wood' all for just under £20. Great shop. |
salmacis wrote:Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 13:30
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I'm happy to see that people boast about their taste are a dying breed. Or isn't that what you meant? ;P
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 14:10
Sorry that so many of the younger generation won't get to experience the pleasure of leisurely perusing the racks at a record store, looking for that new discovery that thrills your soul and gives you something to spread the news about. I love the availability of the internet but the interaction with others in a live situation can't be replaced. Plus it was a great place to pick up chicks!  ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 14:10
I do a little bit of everything ... CDs, vinyls and downloads. But only legal downloads of course! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 14:14
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Sad news indeed. I don't have a FOPP near me, but I wish I did, because I find prog CDs hard to obtain from music stores. Like everyone else here, I prefer CDs over Downloads. -------------   
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 14:17
Well, that's true. And even more in the pre-internet days, when you literally didn't know what the hell to buy... You just surfed the racks until you discovered something captivating... with the advent of internet, people like us who reseacrh about music already know what to look for in the stores, but the thrill was there... I don't know if I'm the only one (I'm sure I'm not) but when I buy cd's (specially unexpected cds) the moment I open them at home it's really exciting..
... that's lost with the dumbed down download-generation...specially because, in my view, it will kill the ALBUM in favor of the SONG. Now about that chik statement... I guess my lack of mating skills have a lot to do with me not agreeing...  -------------
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 14:44
I meant boast in a proud and positive sense.. I'm always boasting about mine. It's huge..
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Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 14:46
 I feel the exact same way. ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 14:50
Me too I hate Downloading,.
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 15:05
| CDs beat downloading any day. I've never heard of FOPP though! |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 15:22
Same here.
I do download (trying to stop), but i'm replacing the .mp3's slowly but surely.
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 15:38
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I much -prefer- the shopping-in-a-record-store experience, but my local record shop, which has a reputation for being so underground and having obscure artists, doesn't really cater to a prog audience at all. I preordered the new Tangent DVD there a few weeks back, put the full deposit down... and they don't have. They simply do not have it. There's one copy in the main warehouse, but it's not even in transit towards the store. There's some sort of communication problem, and I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my time (and money, the prices are too high) trying to support them in the future. It's a limited edition of 3000 copies, and they're probably not even going to be able to get it for me.  ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 15:50
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http://www.amazon.com/Going-Off-One-2DVD-CD/dp/B000QEIO4O/ref=sr_1_1/103-2717092-7579004?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1183146545&sr=8-1 - http://www.amazon.com/Going-Off-One-2DVD-CD/dp/B000QEIO4O/ref=sr_1_1/103-2717092-7579004?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1183146545&sr=8-1 After a few disappointments similar to the one you described I made a personal decision: I will not look for CDs in local stores anymore. It's not worth the time and effort! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 15:57
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This is a shame, I've got a number of good deals at my local FOPP, guess I'll go up their soon to see if theirs any kind of closing down sale.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 16:10
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It continually amazes me that anyone would prefer an intangible digital copy of a song to a nice chunk of plastic with lovely cover art and liner notes to read. I just don't get it! I'm desperately afraid that all physical music media will go the way of vinyl and only be available in a few rare, understocked specialty stores. The fall of Tower Records was certainly a harbinger of doom.
------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 16:29
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^ online buying (Amazon,Play, CDwow, 101cd etc.) is the real cause of the demise of the high-street record store, not downloading. Not because they are cheeper, or more convienient (a 3 to 4 week wait for delivery is not convienient!), but because they offer a wider selection. I have given-up even attempting to buy anything other than "sale" items on the high-street, because the chances of finding what I buy online is slim to zero. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 16:39
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Living in rural Herefordshire, I just have no choice other than to buy online...we have a small Virgin store in Hereford (20 miles away...I go there about every 3 months), and something called Powerplay, but neither stock anything more obscure than Dream Theater, and always at top whack prices... why would I chose to traipse down there to spend £11.99 for Systematic Chaos, when I can find it online for £6.50??
It's a no-brainer, really... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 16:48
From a prog standpoint the wider selection is really cool ... but the online stores are also cheaper and more convenient. Best of all worlds!  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 17:30
Though not a FOPP shopper, i rarely buy from high st. stores these days, they're just so expensive compared to Amazon and Ebay 
HMV charge at least £10 for new releases, but old ones go for up to £17 in some cases.
i downloaded one obscure cd once - the sound quality isn't the same at all.
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 17:31
| I enjoy buying CDs, and have stopped downloading through filesharing networks. I'm trying to replace some of my .mp3 files. It's just much more enjoyable to get a hard copy of the music. Downloading usually lacks the excitement that purchasing a CD does. |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 17:36
| Since brick and mortar record shops are bombing and the internet is booming and downloading is the new craze, do you guys think that CDs will still be widely available into the future, even if you can only order them from the internet? I guess I mean, even though the actual, physical record shops are closing down, do you think CDs will still be manufactured, but just sold off the net because they don't justify a record shop? |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 17:36
As I work within walking distance of two Central London Fopps I've got mixed feelings about this; on the one hand, I still like to buy CDs although I also download from emusic every month, but on the other hand I won't be as tempted to treat myself to yet another prog CD or several following a bad day at work.
On balance, it's a bummer ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 17:42
I'm not in favour of downloading, but lets be honest, the Musical Industry and big stores are victims of their own greed not of the downloading alone, which if used wisely may boost sells.
They still believe we're in the early 90's when they were the only ones who could release a decent CD, so they could put the price they wanted.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONOIPOLY ANYMORE, SO THEY CAN'T KEEP THE HIGH PRICES.
The cost of a CD is lower than an LP but still they sell the CD's 2 or 3 times what an LP costed, this is absurd. The cost of a CD with package, booklett, printing, mail and taxes is 1.75 pounds average (Without booklet it goes down even to 1 pound), let's see:
This are the costs for a simple guy making his own albums, so for a big company the costs are much lower except in the already famous artists, but in this case they reach Gold or Platinuum easily so the costs go really down.
Lets think in 30,000 copies (Record Industry doesn't release less.
The cost per CD is US$ 1.8...................Why in hell are the prices so high????
Any new artist can release 10 or 20 thousand CD's and sell them in US5.00 to US$ 7.50 and still gain some money that will be multip´lied in the gigs.
The big companies don't have a monopoly anymore, they can't keep the prices, don't think in Prog albums sold at 3 pounds, because this is not the meat for a store, a store gains in the thousand of POP or RAP CD's they sell at US$ 15.00 to $ 20.00
Their excuse is: "Less than 10% of CDs are profitable, and these profits ideally must cover the costs of the others."
Why in hell must we pay their ineficient system of finding artists? So yes, downloading has affected the industry (Specially in singles), but a survey studio http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3052145.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3052145.stm proves that a downloader buys more albums than a non downloader. So if there's somebody to blame is the greedy musical industry, not that I condone the illegal downloading, but it's not the only factor. Iván
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Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 17:52
So do I.Shaftesbury Ave and Tottenham Ct Road branches. If so; meet up some day? ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 18:11
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Personally I've always hated the CD with its crappy plastic cover that cracks before you get it out of the shop, its condensed artwork and sleeve notes, the reading of which requires an electro-microscope and a bottle of Optrex, and the fact that a packet of king-sized Rizlas takes up so much of the surface area that no space remains on which to skin up in any practical way.
On the other hand, at least it's a tangible three dimensional piece of ownable sh*t, and not some ethereal, incorporeal coded nothingness, which I wouldn't pay you for.
Bring back vinyl. That was something worth having. ------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 18:34
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There's a chain of record stores in Massachusetts called Newbury Comics that have recently started putting huge numbers of CDs on sale for $10 or less. I'm not talking about the crummy bargain bin stuff you find in Virgin Megastores, but lots of really good classic Cds. I assume they have lowered their prices in an attempt to compete with online retailers, and I suspect it's working. I now buy many mnay more CDs than I ever did before, because I can get them at half the price. I think if more stores adopt this policy, they will not be doomed entirely.
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Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 19:12
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I'm also pro-CD. Tangible objects to me give me a better thrill of getting a new album since I have to make a journey into the central london to use what little money I have to get as much stuff from used record shops as possible. |
Posted By: blaughida
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 21:12
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I'm not in the UK so this doesn't directly affect me, but it's been
happening to the local music stores where I live, too. It makes me
sad, because I, too, don't ever like just having the CD. I currently
am far too poor to be purchasing CDs, and I'm afraid that once this is
no longer the case (it'll 4 years or so, probably) there won't be any
decent local stores left. A friend told me the other day that she, too, likes having CDs but sometimes she just "has to have" a song...right then...so she buys it off iTunes. How silly! I've gotten like that about certain songs before, too, and the wait just made it that much better when I finally did take the CD home and play it. |
Posted By: The Lost Chord
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 21:49
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I download my music, and then buy the Vinyls because i feel the CDs are lacking in "package", and I cant play vinyls on my iPod -------------  "Only the sun knew why"
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 22:06
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I like some legal downloads (such as emusic.com) because now I have an iPod and it's so much cheaper. If it were not for emusic's incredibly cheap prices, I would not have nearly as much music exploration. It's hard to see why someone would pay $10 for a download, but when it's $1.50...
I think also Amazon.com is driving these places out of business because it has a larger selection, discounted prices (more physical shops sell at MSRP, which is for suckers), and free shipping that only takes a week or so.
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 29 2007 at 23:51
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Any place that sells prog CDs (beyond DT, PT, etc) should never close. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 03:58
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Fopp were not bad for prog- the one near me wasn't so good for it, but the Bristol and Bath stores had a fair amount of Canterbury, Krautrock and some Magma albums amidst the usual symphonic legends.
Most of the less well known prog I get though is from a nearby record fair- got one today, funnily enough- or occasionally 2nd hand stores. Usually, stores near me have the latest Inside Out label releases but only a few copies of those- once they are gone, that's it really.
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 04:17
vinyl is back - if you look carefully
 i used to love browsing in record shops - the new "just -in", section, the used section (most lp's were about £1.50), and if you saw anything you fancied they'd put it on for you...now how's that for service?
my old shop is still there after 45 years - i might go there today!
happy hunting!
------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 05:37
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Yesterday I purchased the vinyl edition of the new Symphony X album ... awesome artwork, no CD package can compete with a gatefold vinyl!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 12:08
Dammit! Fopp is where I get most of my CDs and DVDs The irony here is that I'll often download and album and if I really like it I'll go into Fopp and pick up a copy for a reasonable price. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 13:14
Neither had I really!!
But since I am not living in the UK
Never downloaded anything >> wouldn't know how
However we lost one of the three semi-independant store in Brussels called Musicmania last month.
And that famous Belgian library system I tell everyone (and that world envies us, almost as much as the beer ) has to lay-off 40% of the workers, because even the renting is getting bad. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 13:27
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^ no wonder if people copy the CDs they rent ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 14:48
Well can't say that doesn't happen once in a while
This was no problems/influence for the numbers of locations though as the choice for discovery is incredible.
Rentals really started dipping when Napster went down after their lost trial.
I believe it's the fact of having to get out of the house, ordering it and having to wait for it (in case they don't have there and it must come from the central location). that they don't like anymore.
People want everything on the spot nowadays. Abd since you can taste it on the net (even in small samples), people will not get out to rent or buy something they didn't appreciate or thought as average. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: spo1977
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 14:57
| I downloaded a cd once through Wal-Mart because it was unavailable otherwise. I buy most of my actual cds on the internet . I think most brick and mortar shops need to do an online business to stay alive and offer competitive prices. It seems FOPP had online service. I don't really enjoy going to record store anymore. |
Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 16:02
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Bit of a teaser this one. Quite a few paradoxes here
I have never downloaded - nor intend to. (I can't see the point in downloading something with crappy mp format when you can have the CD to hold and look at and sonically far superior). I have several music systems to play CDs and I also convert them to play on my Walkman and computer
I don't live in an area that has FOPP - in fact this is the first I have heard of them - but I'm sorry to see any specialist shop go under.
I've pretty much exhausted High Street stores range of stock but usually check them out first and compare them to Amazon. If there's a couple of quid difference I'll normally buy locally but that's becoming increasingly rare these days. But I did get the new DTs locally (that's Dream Theater and Devin Townsend).
There are some good independents around though eg Caerllysi. Just depends on your genre
Hope you get my drift
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Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: June 30 2007 at 16:34
Now you're making me jealous! The local stores here got so few copies in that they sold out immediately, and the guy behind the counter in one of them told me I might as well order it online! So much for browsing through the record store looking for treasures ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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