Twiddling
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38739
Printed Date: February 12 2025 at 15:23
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Topic: Twiddling
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Subject: Twiddling
Date Posted: June 06 2007 at 17:03
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Just saw an interview with Lemmy. He was talking about Hawkwind and when asked who he would like to collaborate with if he had a choice he said Jeff Beck before his twiddling days. He also referred to other jazz and prog rock guitarists as twiddlers. I looked up the definition in the Oxford dictionary and it defined twiddling as ..."Playing in a nervous or purposeless way. Rapid or intricate series of musical notes. " I think he`s right in a way if he really knows the definition of twiddling. Is he?
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Replies:
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: June 06 2007 at 17:08
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By the sound of it he just doesn't like the style of music that they now choose to play. ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 06 2007 at 17:11
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thing is, Jeff Beck still rocks, twiddler or not. You go see him today or five years from now and he'll be rippin the blues, rock, fusion, whatever he feels like, and like no one else.
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 06 2007 at 19:03
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So you think he`s a twiddler nonetheless. Maybe John McLaughlin is a twiddler as well. ------------- |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 06 2007 at 19:04
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 03:48
On "The Inner Mounting Flame" he sure is. (runs) |
Vibrationbaby wrote:Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 04:49
As much as I like Lemmy, Hawkwind and Motorhead, I'm sure if he had the ablity to 'twiddle' his attitude would be different..
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Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 10:55
 That's a good one. Dave Brock sure can't twiddle!------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 11:12
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I`ve heard short bursts of twiddling from Brock on some live Hawkwind recordings but nothing appraoching the twiddling skill of guys like McLaughlin or Malmsteen. I`ve got a Motorhead compilation and I checked for twiddling but couldn`t find any . In another interview some time ago Lemmy even drew comparisons between Motorhead`s music to that of the Beatles. ------------- |
Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 11:19
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I love the Hawk, but Brock's command of the fretboard has never been stellar.
Nice echoplex effects though. ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 14:32
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Brock has even admitted that he was no guitar hero. Lemmy also said he was very easy to work with musically. His synth work is also simple but freaky. Malmsteen has to be the king of twiddling. My wife is a music teacher and has her doctorate and from time to time I get her to evaluate some of the crap that I listen to ( she even wrote a review here once) and she says that Ywinge just hits the notes. She demonstrated the difference between twiddling and music to me on our piano with a piece of classical music. She played the passage as it should be played and then she played it as fast and hard as she could to demonstrate twiddling. It`s weird I liked the twiddling better.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 14:38
^ play her some Vai ... something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbAi7fa2yZo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbAi7fa2yZo 
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to: 
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 15:07
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Reminds me of Nigel`s guitar solo in the first Spinal Tap Movie I think this is exactly what Lemmy means by "twiddling". But I wonder what he would think of a more traditional "twiddler" such as Wes Montgomery or Joe Pass?
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Posted By: puma
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 01:18
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John McLaughlin is THE twiddler then Petrucci |
Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 02:43
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I call it w**kery.
And even though Mclaughlin is a twiddler, he's good at it.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 03:21
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^ there are few things people can say about music that disgust me ... this is one of them. IMO people saying that aren't worthy of listening to good music, as they are instrumental in destroying music itself.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 03:58
 Back the truck up! By definition, w**kery is not good music. It is gratuitous use of excessive playing for the satisfaction of the player. Note that I never accused anyone of this, although I did call Mclaughlin a twiddler, but not in a perjorative sense (because I love the guy's work).
So before you tell me I'm "not worthy of listening to good music" and am "instrumental in destroying music itself", I will say that anyone who encourages unneccessary use of meandering, unmelodic, excessive "w**kery" is doing exactly that.
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Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 04:13
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This is what I call w**kery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-4keLWn_VM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-4keLWn_VM
Mindless use of hackneyed techniques played fast in order to look better than you are. Sure, some people are great at improv. but most aren't.
BTW, I don't consider most of the stuff on this site "w**kery", bar some Prog. Metal and Jazz Fusion -and those are some of my favourite genres.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 04:23
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^ even if you think that the music is mindless, pointless, stupid or dull ... still no reason to call the musician a w**ker. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 04:28
Well actually I didn't. To exhibit stupidity does not mean you are neccesarily stupid.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 04:34
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^ do you really think this makes a difference? Imagine you're a musician, you practice 5 or more hours a day, record a song or even simply publish a video of yourself practicing on youtube to get some kind of feedback ... do you really think that in that situation it would make a big difference if people said "stop the w**kery" or "you're a w**ker - get lost"? There's a subtle difference, but I think both statements are insulting. Now ... the word "fiddling" is also not very polite, but at least it's more to the point: "too many notes". ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 04:35
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True, but the caption for the video the player wrote was "w**kery". |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 04:39
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^ true, so this guy has some sense of humor ... still, I don't think that it's necessary to use the word in reviews or to describe "real" recordings.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
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Posted By: emdiar
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 09:36
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The term w**kery , used in this sense, has nothing to do with being a w**ker. One can be drunk without being a drunkard.
What's more, the term w**ker is not really that much of an insult, just about everybody in the world has masturbated at some time so I can't see why anyone would fly off the handle like that. The point is not that Yngwie Malmsteen is a w**ker (which he almost certainly is, who isn't?), but rather that he chooses to play relentlessly self gratifying over-ornate, highly technically gifted but emotionally empty dross.
imho ------------- Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 08 2007 at 15:25
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Whatever you want to call it a twiddler is still a twiddler by any other name. The kid in the youtube video is no better than the average 16 year old kid who goes up into his room after school and plugs in his guitar and lets her rip and sounds like Ywinge Malmsteen mark II. Just go down to the local music store and you`ll see they`re a dime a dozen trying out every guitar effect in the book just so they can sound better than they really are. I asked the guy in the sheet music department in my local music store why they have so much metal guitar tab and fake books and he said unfortunately that`s what most kids want to learn which is sad. I also love McLaughlin`s playing but you have to dig into albums other than the Mahavishnu stuff or his even own solo recordings to here him doing some more "musical" playing. I saw him on Johnny Carson back in the eighties doing the jazz standard Cherokee with the full orchestra and anyone who says this guy doesn`t or can`t swing should have seen this. During his Dixie Dreggs days Steve Morse said something like this in Guitar player magazine about being criticized for laying fast " Usually guitarists who criticize other guitarists who can`t play fast are jealous because they can`t play fast themselves". Fast or slow music has to have some purpose or meaning. I still think Lemmy is kind of right.
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