Metallica... Prog Metal or Prog related
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38389
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 14:29
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Metallica... Prog Metal or Prog related
Posted By: The T
Subject: Metallica... Prog Metal or Prog related
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 22:34
This poll is made only for those who think Metallica should be on the archives, as many opinions in the Metallica thread that yours truly started asked for a poll.... So there's no option for "metallica doesn't belong here" as that's matter for discussion in ANOTHER thread....
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Replies:
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 08:47
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odd - where did the discussion go? ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 09:04
| Related (just for the influences) |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 09:18
Folk-Chinese grunge-metal 
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 12:45
To the other thread!! -------------
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Certif1ed wrote:Posted By: tardis
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 12:47
| Folk-Chinese grunge |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 12:51
The Folk-Chinese Grunge joke's getting way old already.
Their Master and Justice albums are prog-metal, but I will vote PR because of the other (less progressive) albums. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 19:14
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Prog Related. Seems like each time they're closer to be added.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Barla/?chartstyle=LastfmMyspace">  
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Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 19:28
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actually I think that they have more to do with Japanese grundge, you must learn to understand your Asian folk musics Mr.T or you will never be able to fully appretiate metallica for their ethnic influences. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 03:39
What's Japanese grundge???
Surely there's no such thing - anyway, it should be obvious that the music is more closely related to Indonesian Gamelans.
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 14:27
I put it as the usual meaningless joke... I'd never thought the last option would be winning!!  ....
I guess when you want to discuss something, seriousness has to go all the way...
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 14:31
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i can admit that I voted for the joke option because I'd rather Metallica weren't listed here. we are fairly close to having all the mainstream rock and metal touchstones here as it is and I wish the focus wasn't on them. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 17:55
I agree  ------------- |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 18:47
Same here ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: enteredwinter
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:49
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I also voted for the joke option as my way of voicing "Metallica shouldn't be here", which I believe for reasons I already explained in the recent "Metallica?" thread in this part of the forum. IMO, the poll should have included an option that said: "Metallica shouldn't be added to the Archives", instead of the joke option, because not doing so seems to assume that people generally agree that they should be added, which is clearly not the case. In other words, before we decide what section to put them in, shouldn't we decide by vote if they belong here in the first place? I know that three or four people have stated their case in the other thread in favor of adding them, but a vote that measures what the overall sentiment is on this issue would have been more appropriate at this point. IMHO. Not that the archives should listen to the majority ... but still I think it would be valuable input to see where the majority lies. ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:59
Now I'm quoting myself.. what's next, schizophrenia??
...This was intended just for discussion about the genre... As I said, there is another thread (quite long) where we discussed if the band deserved to be here or not....
Why Am I so misunderstood, why...
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 21:05
You weren't misunderstood by me. I still wanted to say what I meant by voting for the bad joke option. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 21:15
voted for the joke option myself... reading the cases for them in the other thread... not convinced of influence... and seems more of a case was made that they were in fact PM. Not convinced by that either.... as Tony said in the other thread. Where is the best place for them...simple... neither... they aren't PM.... by most accounts... and they aren't Prog related enough to merit inclusion here by several who I think undestand what it is and what the category stands for. TOO many bands have prog elements in their music.. it is about influence and impact on PROG in many cases and I am not convinced that their impact was on the 'prog' side of prog-metal. I think that came from the classic groups that many PM artists list as direct influences... they sure as hell didn't influence the metallic side of things ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 01:23
Thirded... however, since so many non-prog bands have already been added to prog-related, I think Metallica deserves a spot just as well as they do. I never do so much as look at the PR listings, though, cause that's not what I'm here for
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 02:49
Do you think that Iron Maiden had that much of a "prog influence" on prog metal bands either? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 04:54
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How many times are you gonna try and use the 'Iron Maiden-trap', Mike? Ok, so Prog Metal is mainly inspired by Iron Maiden and Metallica, a couple of other metal bands and two-three the biggest prog act of the 70's. That's excactly the reason its not considered nearly as progressive as the original prog-movement by most who knows it well... And why each time when I've streamed a track or two by almost any of the post 70's/PM bands on your playlist, I've been dissapointed. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 05:39
^ I'll use this "trap" as long as Iron Maiden are the only prog-related metal band in the archives. "Ok, so Prog Metal is mainly inspired by Iron Maiden and Metallica, a couple of other metal bands and two-three the biggest prog act of the 70's. That's excactly the reason its not considered nearly as progressive as the original prog-movement by most who knows it well... And why each time when I've streamed a track or two by almost any of the post 70's/PM bands on your playlist, I've been dissapointed." Maybe you simply don't like prog metal?  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 05:44
let me be frank Mike.... that is why the admins decide these matters.. the basic disconnect between the two is IM were directly influenced by the prog movement itself.. and it shows in the musc. Metallica weren't. I don't see why you keep on dragging IM into this. Different cases... and face it.. IM had a far stronger case for being included here at PA's. As Zeppelin showed as well.. it's not only influence ON prog.. but infuence BY prog. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 05:47
So what? That certainly doesn't mean I'm wrong, and everyone who likes it are right. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 06:03
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I never said that liking prog metal was a requirement ... I'd simply appreciate if those who don't like the genre refrained from bashing it.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 06:49
These are very bald statements of opinion - I'd like to understand your reasoning.
Especially that last statement - how on earth can anyone deny Metallica's influence on the metallic side of things???
Dream Theater covered MOP - that's enough, but if you want more evidence, listen out for the Metallica riffs on "Images and Words", and the extensions of Metallica-like constructions.
Again, interesting opinions - ones that I would say completely justify Metallica's inclusion, since they were clearly inspired by Prog to create such elaborate instrumental sections, lights and shades and use of unusual time signatures - but absolutely no reasoning again.
If I remember correctly, the original purpose of this thread was not to debate the inclusion, but where to put the band.  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 08:05
With all due respect ... this post does not sound like you listened to Master of Puppets. And let me be equally frank: I think the admins made a horrible decision there. I accept that they have the right to make the decisions - I'd even accept if they overruled the PM team on Prog Metal additions ... but a) I don't have to agree with the decisions, and b) they're not automatically right just because the admins make them. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 11:43
Is that what I'm doing? Am I not correct about PM's main sources for inspiration? Where am I bashing the genre? Is it when I state my honest opinion about it continously dissapointing me? Saying that most progmetal is less progressive than the original 70's prog-movement, feels about as controversial as saying that protoprog is less complex than R.I.O. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 11:53
^ Saying that prog metal is less prog than the original bands of the 70s is perfectly fine ... I even agree, although it is a very broad statement. If you took it one step further and said something like "Prog Metal doesn't belong here - none of these bands are prog enough" then I would begin to feel offended. BTW: I wasn't referring specifically to you when I was talking about people who bash the genre ... and it also depends on the thread whether bashing the genre is offensive at all. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 12:00
Which decision are you referring to there Mike, LZ or IM (or both)?
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 12:10
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^ IMO to add Led Zeppelin was a logical step after Deep Purple and Queen had been added - but to add Iron Maiden as the *only* metal "prog related" band ... I accept the decision (like I said above), but I think it's wrong. Edit: I should add that I agree with most of the decisions of the admin team ... this is only one out of many. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 12:15
| Cert, I think Micky meant that it was the '70s prog bands that didn't influence the metallic side of prog metal bands. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 14:03
Somebody actually READ my first post!
  .....If you scroll down a little bit in the previous page, you'll find a thread called "Metallica", where we should have continued the discussion....
I was going to make this poll a vote-only one, but I didn't... Guess it's my mistake after all.....
Well, the opinion is on anyway: put Metallica in the Archives, in the folk-chinese grunge genre, as many have suggested here...
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 19:12
and with all damn due respect hahahha... I've heard it.. .years ago... but you again... miss the damn point. If you want to argue sound and the music they made.... put this band before the PMT and it's an up or down vote.. as every band is here. If not.. then leave the music itself out of it....it becomes a PR issue.... where... for the seeemingly 100th time.. the music is not the defining aspect of what is and is not a PR group. Explain Zepplin and their. what... 4 or 5 prog songs over the course of a decade. It's not about the music itself.. if it was... any one with a set of ears would and could add PR groups. It's about 'knowing' prog.. and that has been reserved to the admins.. as it should be in my opinion. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 19:40
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The only way out of this maze is to put Maiden and Metallica in Prog Metal.
(Maidenīs last 2 or 3 albums could be considered Prog Metal) It looks a bit strange how Maiden is the only metal band in Prog Related. Metallica have enough songs which could be classified as Prog metal.
So all I can suggest is they both be silently moved to Prog Metal in the wee hours of the morning, to avoid ...er ...problems.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 20:21
that might be the the solution...short of simply saying ..great band.. 'progressive' (think of Steely Dan.. my next visit after this post) but simply not worthy of being included at this site, a PROG rock site. I have to say though.. we have a system though.. it works.... either they are prog metal... to be determined.(if not already) by the PMT. Thus either accepted or rejected. OR (again.. admin policy has been that PR is NOT a consolation prize for rejected artists) they go before the admin council for PR.. and I think Tony hinted and what I am driving at.. they simply don't fit or just plain don't belong there. Iron Maiden at least had STRONG prog influences... thus like Zeppelin (disagree as I may)... a logical fit for what PR has been used by this site for. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 02:13
ok ... I didn't know that the definition of the category changed completely in the last 24 hours. Let me check ... wait a minute ... it didn't! Tell you something: Maybe you should perform a reality check every once in a while before you insult long standing members with this sort of patronizing ... FYI: I was the one who performed the poll for Max back in 2005 which was about which "semi-prog" categories should be created and what they should be called. And one of the first bands that was added was Queen ... now explain that to me! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 03:35
I am truly baffled by this.
(also for what seems the 100th time!!!!)
The music is the defining aspect of a Prog Rock group - how else do you define it?
Sorry to be so bald and contrary - but how on earth can it be any other way?
Unless I've completely misunderstood your jist, this looks like complete bollocks, with all due respect.
Who "knows" Prog?
Answer - no-one.
As far as I know, "knowing Prog" is not reserved for the Admins - with respect to them and the great job they do, they're just Admins. This site is not "Admin Archives"
I might politely point out that the Admins did not identify the first Prog Rock groups either - my understanding is that it was a journalist in the mid 1970s.
If a musician cannot suggest ways of identifying particular types of music, then there's no hope.
 ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 05:57
I think its looks a bit strange how Maiden, a metal band is put in prog related. Don't see how adding another one will make it less strange. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 06:10
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I think Metallica would fit in a prog metal site, like some techno bands would fit in a progressive electronic site. But a general Progressive music site - NO! ------------- |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: June 01 2007 at 12:34
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The site owners emphatically said no to Metallica's inclusion,so this thread can be closed. -------------  |