The title song is Prog though, and Orion is also very progressive, specially Burton's Bass that's awsome. And Ullrich's drumming on Disposable Heroes can't really be faulted if you like really fast tight runs.

 

Probable the best Metal album of all time if you'd ask me, and enough progressive music inside, a shame Burton died, wonder what AJFA would have sounded like if there was a bass present.

 

 

There's nothing in, say, Dream Theater's "Images and Words" that's inherently more progressive than Master of Puppets - just more technically focussed.

 

Since the choice of Prog Metal isn't there, I chose progressive.

 

 

I think it would make sense, as prog metal is a genre in itself, born of the fusion of metal and prog.  They had to get their influences somewhere, just like prog bands were influenced by what we call proto prog bands.  I don't see how the logic of this is faulty.

 

So the idea in itself isn't bad, but not suitable for PA, if I get your statement correctly ?

 

Oh well, I tried !

 

That doesn't really answer the question though, does it...

 

Progressive.

 

 

 

Why would you say it isn't prog?

 

Compared to other "heavy metal" albums of the time, it doesn't strike me as being standard in the least.

 

i agreed to the inclusion of Iron Maiden into the Archives as prog-related due to the path they laid down for Prog-metal to follow, but Metallica follow a different path IMO, the path towards heavy metal /thrash metal (to which they succumbed) , a very clear difference to my mind. Metallica's music is IMO cleverly written, well structured and textured , and sophisticated should i say, but do not really belong here, also if they were included in PA it could open up a hornet's nest of  for example  "why not Black Sabbath etc..." posts. if i am wrong fair enough but that is only my opinion. at the end of the day the leaders will decide, and i will accept their decision.

 

 

 

I think the latter is both the bottom line, and a concern - if Metallica were to be included, there would be an outcry from people who do not understand the reasoning behind the decision - or even hear the progressiveness in the music, however you care to relate it.

 

That is predictable and should be planned for - what type of argument is likely to appear, and what is the most diplomatic - and truthful - counter for each?

 

 

The bottom line is that their music is really not so different to early examples of Prog Metal, because of the sophistication it clearly exhibits, and because the same sophistication can be heard in Prog Metal.

 

Sure, the techniques are up a few notches - but the basics are the same.

 

And you can't say that about Black Sabbath - or many other metal bands at that time or for many years after. In those cases it tends to be one or two techniques, overall sound, maybe, or similarities in style.

 

It'd be an interesting experiment to play "MOP" back to back with a "standard" metal album, an early Prog Metal album and a more modern Prog Metal album.

 

I'd suggest "Angelwitch" by Angelwitch, "Operation Mindcrime" by Queensryche and "Images and Words" by Dream Theater (OK, it's not the most modern, but it is the blueprint of the modern PM style).

 

Maybe, if this seems a good idea, one of the PM guys could suggest better albums to compare.

 

The path Metallica laid down seems stronger to me than Iron Maiden's - which ties in importance with Judas Priest really (for example, witness Death's cover of "Painkiller", and also "Exciter" - the first true thrash metal song that I know of ). In fact, it's fundamental to many Prog Metal acts.

 

I'm not even sure, beyond Dickenson-style vocals, what influence Maiden had on Prog Metal - the musical influence seems to be more on "Speed/Thrash Metal" bands like Anthrax, Helloween and more recently, Dragonforce. Maybe I need to listen to more.

 

 

 

They used thrash in their music - Helloween's debut is almost pure thrash (the technique).

 

I call it Speed metal also, because that is how it was classified in 1986. "Ride The Sky" appears on the first "Speed Kills" compilation - a collection of Speed Metal (apparently). It's certainly a very fast track, with the emphasis seeming to be on the speed - just like Dragonforce.

 

You could call it "power" metal - but isn't all metal music about power in one respect or another? I always thought of power metal as bands like Skid Row and Pantera, who played hugely powerful riffs without entering into speed or thrash territory.

 

...anyway - that's just my usage of the term that I feel comfortable with.

 

These labels change over time anyway - I just like to keep then accurate

 

 

 

I agree about Maiden's influence - it's not nearly as pervasive as Metallica's in Prog Metal.

 

The 14 page Metallica thread in this section I will leave open.Any further Metallica debate or discussion can take place there.