You won't believe what happened at work tonight.
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38245
Printed Date: November 29 2024 at 02:53
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: You won't believe what happened at work tonight.
Posted By: Man Overboard
Subject: You won't believe what happened at work tonight.
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 01:30
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So I'm at work, and listening to Evergrey at a nice, respectable volume. This woman comes up and she's like "I LOVE HEAVY METAL! I LOVE KORN AND DISTURBED AND SEVENDUST AND LIMP BIZKIT!" I kind of shake my head a bit, but she won't go away, and she says (though not as eloquently as I'm typing it, her grammar made my head hurt), "Oh, and there's this new band I heard recently, they're as good as Korn! They're a new band, so you probably haven't heard of them, but they're called Porcupine Tree. I totally identify with their debut album, Fear Of A Blank Planet! I hate how people try to understand me, but their lyrics are so cool and make me wanna fight the man! I love getting stoned at the mall, and the video is sooooo awesome, it's just like my life!" Is this the audience Wilson is trying to reach?  ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Replies:
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 01:33
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nice
------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 01:34
debut...album? 
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 01:35
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Uh-oh.
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Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 01:37
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wow huh what the hell? should have played her some early stuff  . |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 01:42
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sounds like something I'd say if I were stoned at the mall...
------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: asimplemistake
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 01:47
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I am sorry, but that story slightly disgusts me. I wonder how I would react to that....  |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 02:11
Part of me blanched, but mostly, I'd been expecting this sort of thing to happen since I heard the single... especially after I saw the video. But I never expected to hit this close to home... like, directly to me, at my own workplace. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
A_Simple_Mistake wrote:Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 02:13
wasn't "this woman" really your boss who walked in...?
  -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 09:10
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Major label, metal riffs, video...I mean, presumably they want to sell records, which means they have to reach beyond the cozy boundaries of ProgArchives for a bigger fanbase! Sure, some people are gonna think it's their debut. If it smartens her up a bit after listening to it a few times and allows her to quit Korn, that's fine! ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 09:35
| Scary. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 10:00
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Well, we couldn't keep Porcupine Tree a secret forever...
Next we'll be seeing Steven Wilson on the cover of People Magazine...
and pegged as Britney Spears' new beau.... ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 10:55
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FoaBP is definitely a nu-metal album. It has all the traits except the rap. The subject matter (mommy doesn't love me, think I'll go do some drugs) is just like any Korn or Papa Roach album. Yeah. it's unfortunate, but PT has reached a lower common denominator. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 11:09
What is more important is that the quality of the music is not inferior. Hell, any band that can manage to become mainstream with high quality songs over 10 minutes in this day and age deserve everything they get, and I'm happy for Wilson and PT. FOABP is an amazing album that, for once, has some proper promotion, and we all should be happy for them...
Music is what counts, not the hype... or are you people just listening to underground bands to be able to say you are "in the margin", and as soon as your favorite underground band starts getting the recognition they deserve while being true to themselves, you spit on them ?
That kind of attitude digusts me, to say the VERY least... ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 11:19
I have a very difficult time believing this is the case. I would see the situation as actually ironic. FOABP is commentary more than anything. Maybe the relation this woman found will open her eyes to what a waste her life might have become. ------------- 
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 11:28
Hey maybe, PT is already set upon building a sect of people who thought they were good until they became popular. Kind of like the Gabriel/Collins divide in Genesis, Barrett/Waters/Gilmour era Pink Floyd, or Dream Theater fans & non-fans. You know the type - " I used to love them when they were good". I just leave it to the group(s) to play what they want for whatever reason they want. If I don't like the new stuff, I still can play the old albums. And I see NO reasons why one would take it so seriously. As if it was something personal. But some people think they "own" the band. I do take offense in seeing Limp Bizkit, Korn et al described as metal. Sure, they got tagged with the nu-metal name, but it wasn't the "rap" aspect that I don't care for, rather the fact that the style got copied by so many crap bands, so quick & so shallow. 7string low tuned guitars, whiney "poor poor pitiful me" lyrics; after a bit you wonder if they can write anything even slightly different. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 11:34
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I don't think the lyrics are meant to be "whiny" or whatnot. "Stoned in the Mall again, terminally bored, shuffling through the stores", "Xbox, is a God to me". I don't think Wilson is trying to relate to that crowd in anyway, much like In Abstentia, he's talking about some of the attitudes of the younger generation. Hating parents, doing nothing, and being bored all day. ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 11:34
 I don't think bands actually target a type of listener. Usually they write music they like. Their following is the type that like it as well or have found a new sound.
I could be mistaken, but I think when the audience changes, it merely is a result of a band changing direction. Good bands don't end up "sucking", normally. The listener just doesn't like the kind of music they changed to. -------------
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 13:59
I just had to laugh when I read this.
I always try to get some info about a band I just checked out before opening my mouth to others  ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 14:48
Seems simple enough, eh ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 15:02
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Well, look on the bright side - Porcupine Tree is now reaching new audiences. But someone really needs to get with the program if they think Porcupine Tree sounds like Korn.
Maybe you could introduce her to other progressive metal-like music and use her as a test subject to see if progressive music can really make people smarter.
I'm sorry you had to endure that Aaron. 
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Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 15:07
| I would most probably have told her everything I know of PT, and *make* her listen to the old albums as well. |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: May 23 2007 at 15:09
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Please don't misinterpret my earlier statement. I think it's a good album, it's better than many things in the quasi-mainstream at the moment, but even when compared to PT's earier 'accessible' material like In Absentia, FOABP is vastly inferior. They break no new ground, the lyrics are trite (which i believe was the point of my previous post), and the music is less diverse and not as well composed IMO. This is not to say that PT is not still great, they are still one of my favorite bands, but I am definitely expressing a certain disappointment in this record. I find something wrong with a 40 year old guy writing about how much it sucks to be a teenager. There's already enough teenagers doing the same thing. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Viajero Astral
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 04:34
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BTW, hey Ricco, listen The Festival of Death watching your signature, its really scarry ------------- 
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 09:37
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"Is this the audience Wilson is trying to reach?"
Ultimately, this is the audience everyone must eventually try to reach. Artists who are unhappy with increased sales are "rare to non-existent" and increasing sales will always lead to to this person once the pool of moderatly intelligent consumers has been exhausted. The more important question might be, "What is Steve Wilson willing to do to hold onto this caliber of 'fan'?" It's awfully hard (both emotionally and in a business sense) to go back to selling 75,000 albums after you've had a taste of gold and platinum. Artists can get lost in a kind of no man's land where their old fans accuse them of selling out and their new fans are fickle and won't support them when the next "big thing" comes along and takes their place. Look at poor old Kansas as an example. Once you start down the top 40 road, there's often no turning back. |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 09:55
Perhaps once you start down that road, you have no intention of turning back, especially when the money is good.
I am guilty as the next person who has dropped listening to a band because of the "sellout", but I have also found myself to be the loser when I realized I need to change my perspective in order to appreciate the new direction. Being a music snob hurts only the listener. The artist could probably care less. -------------
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 09:59
She then went on to say, "Yeah, and they had on 'soundscapes' some dude named 'Robert Fripp'. I wonder if he's also new on the music scene?" At this point Aaron passed out. |
Posted By: Frasse
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 10:05
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The whole situation reminds me of late 70s Genesis and very few prog fans has ever forgiven them so why would we forgive Mr. Wilson when Porcupine Tree makes it really big? Wilson will in fact be the next "love-to-hate" guy after Mr. Collins. |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 10:05
Yeah as far as i'm concerned Porcupine Tree are selling out and conforming to todays mainstream music. They just want to sell records. That's it. -------------  
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 10:16
| A funny thing about it is that they are now on the Roadrunner label which was started (and is still owned, I believe) by Derek Schulman of Gentle Giant. He of all people should see the dangers of "commercialization" after what happened to GG at the end of the 70's, but he's had so much success with mainstream acts asa Record Exec. that he's lost his perspective to this little community. |
Posted By: The Bard
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 10:19
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Maybe they actually like the new music that they're making. Maybe they aren't selling out. Maybe they like the sounds of Korn and.... OH GOD... I.... CAN'T SAY IT!
*proceeds to hurl all over keyboard* ------------- Let the music be your master. |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 10:30
 I cannot believe this... It's not as if they wrote 13 songs lasting 3 minutes each, created for radioplay... Christ, every song on FOABP is above the 6 - 7 minutes mark, the overall album is more prog and heavier than most of their previous releases, while still capturing a certain psychedelic element previously found in The Sky Moves Sideways and Signify, what the f**k are you people whining about ?
Comparison : you have a friend that has been training all his life in a particular olympic discipline and, what do you know, he won the gold medal in his event ; he gets publicity contracts, endorsments, and everything else that comes along when winning an olympic gold medal, and all you can think of is "Goddamn sell-out, I preferred when he was a struggling athlete not yet at the top of his game".
My point is PT ARE at the top of THEIR game right now, having just released what probably is their best, heaviest and proggiest album, and just because they are FINALLY reaping the rewards of over 15 years of sowing (we all know how Steven Wilson is a workaholic), you call them sell-outs ?
Everyday I get to read nice comments and opinions on this forums, but stupid and ignorant posts like "PT are selling out" ruin the good moments I have here. ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 10:34
And who in mainstream music today are putting out concept albums and 18 minute epic songs? Just because a band is reaching wider audiences doesn't mean they are "selling out." They switched to Roadrunner because they could get better promotion and what band doesn't want that? Maybe it's actually working and maybe progressive music is getting a little more popular. Look at the likes of The Mars Volta, Opeth, Tool, Radiohead and Muse- they've seen success and they haven't "sold out." That's such a dumb term anyway.
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 10:56
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 11:46
I hope Derek Shulman wasn't personally responsible for signing Nickleback, Slipknot, etc.  ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 12:08
Oh! I know. God forbid the man use his abilities to make any money off successful bands that people obviously like. -------------
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 13:57
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Not only Slipknot, et. al. but Bon Jovi, Blue Rodeo and Dexy's Midnight Runners as well back a few years at another label.
I read an interview a couple of years ago where he said the 75 people on his payroll don't care if it's Bon Jovi or Joe Blow that they are selling. All they know is payday is every other Friday. So for him at that point, making payroll was all that mattered. |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 14:01
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^^ Is making payroll a problem? -------------
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Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 14:13
| When it is all that matters to a musician I think it is. I had higher expectations considering Derek's background with GG. |
Posted By: StarsongAgeless
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 14:45
 In fact, I can't applaud you enough. Sell-out talk disgusts me most of the time.... Fear of a Blank Planet is a Porcupine Tree album through and through, true to themselves and prog, and I think it tells an amazing story that really hits home. They deserve all the success they get...
That isn't what he's writing about. He's writing about what prescription drugs and over-saturation of electronics are doing to teenage psychology. This album is a political/social commentary about big business and marketing... and even parenting. At least, that's what I'm seeing... EDIT: Apparently Wilson was trying to take no stand on the issue at all (which is interesting, because I get a definite 'this is a bad thing' vibe from the music... hmm...)
.... .......... Sure, then that would be why they pushed back the release video rather than capitalizing on the Virginia Tech shooting...  Seriously, I couldn't disagree more, here. What artist deliberately trying to go mainstream would release an album with only 6 tracks, none of which are really single-length (5 minuters are fairly rare on mainstream radio), and one of which is over 17 minutes long? Not only is this album very much prog, it's chillingly intellectual. The style of the lyrics is a lot like Kate Bush, who very often inhabits a character in her songs (and often, she does this to make a point, such as in 'Army Dreamers' or 'Sat in Your Lap'). The entirety of FOABP is in this vein... and I think it's brilliant. Some people like the woman in Aaron's story are misinterpreting the lyrics as a glorification of teenage apathy and hatred, when it's not... ------------- Check out the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71 - Unsigned Bands section! "Like the time I ran away, and turned around and you were standing close to me." Yes' Awaken |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 18:20
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hahahahaha... funny, funny stuff
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: tardis
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 13:53
*pukes into a bag* I think someone should email this to Steven Wilson |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 13:55
This tells you for sure the new album IS NOT 5 stars 
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Posted By: coleio
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 14:29
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If prog fans and a mainstream nu-metal fan enjoys it, surely this only makes it better? If you don't like the album, don't listen to it. Or alternatively express your views in a concise intellectual manner, in a review or something. Don't just come into a thread about Porcupine Tree or one of their albums and use it as an excuse to give it a lame bashing and get people annoyed. Christ. ------------- Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!! |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 18:38
That has nothing to do with the rating. But your opinion tells us a lot about you. -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 18:58
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Now children! can we all behave like Gentlemen please? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 19:11
Just listened to Back In The World, eh? Knew there was yet another reason I like you ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 19:27
Yes, we simply have to make clear our unanimous stand against popularity. Any act that sells more albums than there are people in the group should be shunned as a sell out. And while I really don't care to even hear Nickelback et al ( my wife & friends are going to see them Canada Day weekend, and I'm babysitting the kids), there are people, lots of people in fact, that do enjoy them. We all have freedom of opinion, and others having a different opinion in music, that most dangerous of arts, do not constitute grounds for getting all snotty & snobby. I saw a short interview with Derek Shulman, and the acts he's signed all had something that he thought were deserving of exposure to a wider public. So unless he's stated some high flown standards that he would be pushing , I don't see the rationale for dissing his current work. Remember the punk critiques from the late 70s about progressive rock. Where they any more accurate or well founded then those we see herein about other genres ? ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |