old school is better
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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37697
Printed Date: February 20 2025 at 16:17
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Topic: old school is better
Posted By: transcendant
Subject: old school is better
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 12:05
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the old school of prog, with leanings towards classical music
long songs that take you on an epic journey, like Tarkus, by Elp;
'Close To the Edge' by Yes," 'Twas Held In I" by Procal Harum,
"Singring And The Glass Guitar" on Todd Rundgren/ Utopia's 'Ra'
album "Epitath", King Crimson, etc., are all so much more
interesting than the weak material out there on the radio...I do not
know anything about today's prog but these are some of the more
interesting pieces I go by...
------------- transtasis |
Replies:
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 12:07
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why not learn something about today's prog? ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 12:25
I concur. New prog has much to offer, in my opinion. And I post this while listening to Starless & Bible Black. E ------------- 
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Man Overboard wrote:Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 12:38
I, on the other hand, am writing this while I listen to some of today's prog - King Crimson - Happy with what you have to be happy with  .You know, one thing about getting into "new" prog, a lot of the newer groups' sites offer MP3 samples so you have an idea if you might like them before you put down your money on an album. Back in the "old"days, we'd look over the cover art for an unknown group & then decide  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 12:51
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Topic: old school is better
It's all a matter of personal taste and opinion,isn't it?
How can you say that "old school" prog is better when you freely admit in your post you know nothing of newer prog? -------------  |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 13:01
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old school might be better but not for this reason. ;P I'm slowly growing frustrated by transparent production (as well as desk guys being considered as crucial to the music as the musicians themselves) and not many new-gen albums have the thump I associate with the sounds of my favourite musical era... ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 13:15
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If the reviews are anything to go by (and I'm sure they are), then taking the listener on an epic journey is actually a feature of modern prog. I've yet to find any that does it for me - but plenty of others have, so don't give up the search - it's a personal voyage, after all! ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 13:21
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Wow, how informative! I would never have guessed this by myself! Thank God for this threads!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: forte88
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 14:00
| I certainly think that the live performances of the old days were much better than today's prog. There seemed to be a lot more emphasis on production and theatrics than there is today. There are good bands out there today peforming prog, but to see shows like ELP where Keith Emerson is twirling circles in the air with a grand piano, and Peter Gabriel in Genesis dressing up like the Slipperman are long gone. Musicianship and over the top theatrics is what I miss about today's prog. Perhaps the lack of today's commercialism in prog is why these elaborate productions are missing (too expensive). But the lack of commercialism has it's advantages too (able to get good seats at a concert :) ). |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 14:20
I really dig what you're saying there - that's really helpful information! Thanks!!! ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 14:28
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I'm listening to 'Just an illusion' by Imagination as I'm typing and boy is it w**k. I do hope this is not the new school of Prog BTW, best old school - VdGG, best new school - VdGG  ------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005 |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 15:03
I must say, old chap, that the boy seems to have learned one of the many ways PA members seem to start off a rousing proper debate. Make a statement, admit your ignorance of the other side, therefore giving those who would help you free you of this ignorance a great opening to inform you of the grand knowledge they possess on said subject thereby balancing the discussion.  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 15:04
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Old School was a pretty funny movie, but I wouldn't say that it was Will Ferrel's best...
------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: aprusso
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 16:52
| OK. So now that these people are 70 years old, let's look for other things to do, like gardening, or collective masturbation |
Posted By: LeInsomniac
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 16:58
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Well i have to say i believe i have a great understanding of "old school prog" and of "new school prog" and still i believe that although with "the new svhool" prog is waking up again with some oldies now starting to make new appearances again i believe its on a good way, but nevertheless the "old school" is better since it was the beggining and the first time it happened, they began it all, they made ir first, and they made it Art. The new ones, although having magnificent works theyre still missing that something that the old ones had. I cant quite explain it, but just listen to VDGG and theyre still going, listen to PFM then, and theyre too still going on! Pashion for the music I say. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/LeInsomniac/?chartstyle=volta"> 
Happy Family One Hand Clap, Four Went On But None Came Back |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 17:06
welcome to PA ! here you will discover many excellent new bands you don't often hear on the radio
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: nightlamp
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 17:16
I agree; I think a problem with "new school" prog is that there's too much reliance on genre conventions and the "old school" prog mindset. Yeah, it's great that they're incorporating elements of other styles, but it still seems more "regressive" than "progressive". I'm sure that this is an unfair blanket statement (since I haven't heard every new prog band out there); I haven't heard every new prog band out there, and I'm sure there are plenty of groups to whom this doesn't apply... |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 17:22
I don't know about the new school of Prog - I always thought of Imagination as a band with an oxymoron for a name.
That said, for some inexplicable reason, I actually like "Just an Illusion".  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 17:25
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I'm sick of these threads.
You are not able to hold a valid opinion on this topic if you do not know anything about new prog groups that are not The Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Wobbler, etc.
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Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 17:29
There are other bands out there! Hell, most of these people are pointing out pseudo-prog bands that copy old bands' symphonic sound. No one is noticing incredibly innovative bands such as Godspeed You Black Emperor, Maatmos, or any RIO or any other experimental stuff. ------------- 
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Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 17:32
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In all seriousness...
I think the biggest difference in approach from the "old school" prog to the newer stuff
is, in fact, the musical background of the players.
The older guys, when they were young, were trained mostly in classical European music
and seeked out American R&B/Rock and experimental Jazz in order to rebel.
Combine that exposure with their backgrounds in Church Choir
and you would end up with a very diverse and dynamic approach to song structuring.
Today's younger musicians get their sunconscious influence from what THEY were exposed to:
Metal, Grunge, Industrial, New Wave, Punk, Arena Rock ...
These are styles that, when mixed together, don't necessarily conflict drastically with each other
and, therefore, don't create the same type of dynamic variety and tension.
The OLD and NEW PROG probably shouldn't even be "compared"
because ,essentially, they're not the same beast at their foundation.
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Posted By: ClassicRocker
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 18:20
 ooh, i like that one. sounds like a pretty good rationale IMO.So since you are generalizing that the people who like "old school" appreciate more Jazz/blues/R&B/classical while the new-proggers like the heavier/80s/90s sound,
Is there anyone who has a better idea? (wants to prove this one wrong?)
In most cases this seems like a fitting analysis, though, of the old Vs. new conflict. ------------- 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 19:26
Sounds reasonable - I'm from a Classical background, and find that old school lends itself well to analysis, while the newer stuff typically doesn't - and the fact (if it is, indeed, a fact) that it's not written by educated musicians supports that. 
However, I'm also self-schooled in ROCK music, having been in bands since I was 12  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 21:37
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I'm an old school guy who also enjoys plenty of newer bands. I recommend taking some doses of Nexus, Wobbler, Deluge Grander, Shadow Circus, Aviva, William Gray, modern KC, modern Steve Hackett, Ozric Tentacles, and Pure Reason Revolution. Then get back to us. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 21:47
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Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: May 08 2007 at 04:22
Agreement here as well. And I post this as I am listening to 'All of the Above' (Transatlantic)....
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Posted By: Castlevania
Date Posted: May 08 2007 at 14:48
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Is Mr. Bungle already too old to be considered New School? Cause if not, there's a kicker for ya!
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Posted By: nightlamp
Date Posted: May 08 2007 at 14:56
That's the thing... I listen to a variety of newer groups that exhibit progressive characteristics (Upsilon Acrux, Titan, Tortoise, Ozrics, etc.) but when I hear the term "Prog Rock" I immediately think of the symphonic style. RIO is definitely progressive, but the style and label are both certainly old-school. Experimental? What's that? It's interesting how many "innovative" groups with progressive tendencies have resisted that moniker-- even Zappa and Fripp have done so in the past; nowadays such groups are pigeonholed into other vague genres like post-rock, math rock, chamber rock, etc. or the vaguest of all-- "experimental". One could cynically argue that these tags are just means by which snotty music critics can laud their favorite new bands and safely avoid the stigma of liking "prog rock"; however, I think bands themselves resist the Prog label because the general public understanding of Prog is the unfairly-maligned "pretentious" 1970s output of Yes, ELP, Genesis, et al. Perhaps they want to "progress" beyond those characteristics and the listener's preconceived notions? Sorry about the rant...  |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: May 10 2007 at 09:10
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I don't know if the old School is better. But, sicure, is more exciting!!!
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Posted By: purplepiper
Date Posted: June 15 2007 at 21:13
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I often feel that classic prog is the best. The 'new guys' just don't have the legendary status or power to draw me in like giants such as king crimson or elp. The only exception I make is classic prog bands that are still going, like king crimson...thrak kicked ass! I guess i'm a little stubborn to give new prog a chance...any recomendations? (don't say dream theater because I HATE prog metal). I'm looking for original, extremely skilled musicians! ------------- for those about to prog, we salute you. |