Is there still groundbreaking prog these days?
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Topic: Is there still groundbreaking prog these days?
Posted By: unclemeat69
Subject: Is there still groundbreaking prog these days?
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 14:56
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I've been thinking lately: back in the old days (late 60's early 70's)
there was so much music around that was truly groundbreaking, new and
without precedent (Hendrix, Beatles, Zappa, KC, Magma, Yes, Miles Davis
going electric etc). with the second 'wave'of prog late 70's it became
(at least to my ears) more of a follow-up ("let's do some of whatever
those guys did a couple years ago") rather than experimental truly
progressive (as in giant leaps forward or progress), and now I
can't really think of anything remotely groundbreaking, adventurous and
exploring truly unchartered territory. The only band that comes to my
mind is Meshuggah. Sure they're heavy and noisy, however their main
focus lies not in the heaviness but rather in rhythm and groove, using
hard-to-figure-out time signatures, strange sogstructures. As usual,
the band is criticised by people who don't really seem to understand or
feel the music (Of course, I could be wrong here). Does anyone here know any other bands that are truly innovative, doing stuff that has never been done before? ------------- Follow your bliss |
Replies:
Posted By: Witchwoodhermit
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 15:12
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I think rock music has been basically repeating itself over and again for the past twenty years or more.
Not that there are not any good bands out there, just nothing particulary groundbreaking. ------------- Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man. |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 15:27
| The Japanese prog band KENSO sound quite original to me. Especially their album FABULIS MIRABILIBUS. I don't think you could call their music genuinely groundbreaking, since they place themselves in the same tradition as Brand X and (ONE OF KIND-era) Bruford. But if you accept that they operate within an existing genre, you'll find they are doing amazing things. Each melody, each solo is inspired and full of surprises. In my opinion Kenso are far more adventurous than the Tangent, Wobbler or other 'retro' bands... |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 15:38
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There is still enough space to merge rock subgenres that are not merged already. There are some more-or-less groundbreaking names nowadays, but they are not necessary in the prog realm. And the term "groundbreaking" is really difficult to pin down, really. Sometimes, while listening to The Mars Volta I think of them as of true inovators. In the next moment, I realise there's nothing new under the sun - just a pile of different subgenres/ideas that are making an unique, homogenic texture. ------------- |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 15:52
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There are lots of prog bands with original ideas, very inventive and adventurous but in my opinion most progheads are focussed on the known bands so it's hard for those bands to survive. A few names of lesser and unknown prog rock bands I would like to recommend (see my reviews): Gosta Berlings Saga/Szkitia/Karfagen/GOAD/Lost World/Infront/Seven Reizh/William Gray/Nemo/Deluge Grander/Yesterdays/Ex-Vagus/Ashada/Kotobel/Rain/Angulart/Roz Vitalis/Supay/Riverside... |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 16:06
| There is plenty of groundbreaking music these days. I don't know quite when "before" is, but we'll say from the late, late 20th century: The Mars Volta, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Sigur Ros, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Isis, Therion...to name a few. |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 16:41
| Yes. 65daysofstatic, Hella, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Kayo Dot, Alamaailman Vasarat, and Taal come to mind, and I have no doubt there are many others. |
Posted By: Forkface
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 16:44
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Sure there is. Get you a dose of .... Sleepytime Gorilla Museum John Zorn Godspeed You Black Emperor Coil Miasma and the Carousel of Headless Horses |
Posted By: unclemeat69
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 16:55
cool! I never heard of most of these bands. I'll be sure to check them
out. because of contemporary prog I basically just Meshuggah.
Spock's Beard (in the Morse-era quite derivative of the old
symphonic/art prog) ans TFK (who i like a lot at the moment). that's
why I asked. other than these it's mostly 70's prog KC, Yes, Genesis,
GG, VDGG, Magma, FZ etc and a wide variety of other (unrelated) styles.
Seems to me that progressive music isn't quite dying after all (thank god!!! and
praise the lawd, hallelujah!! LOL) ------------- Follow your bliss |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 16:59
I am not religious but if you wish to thank God for all those great new bands, OK 
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Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 17:04
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I like the good part of the bands mentioned here, but really, are they as groundbreaking as the ones who started prog?
Maybe they are in the Avant garde genre, not too familiar with that genre.
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Posted By: unclemeat69
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 17:10
I mus admit I don't follow any religion as such, it was more an expression of secular joy, that there was still some (possible) progress in modern day (non-classical) music, that's all  ------------- Follow your bliss |
erik neuteboom wrote:Posted By: Hatters
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 17:36
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There is a hell of a lot of groundbreaking music around these days. You just have to search it out a but more 'cos it ain't that popular. Some of these abdns include: Pelican!!!!! (saw them recently and they were AMAZING!) 65daysofstatic Russian Circles Do Make Say Think A Silver Mt. Zion Sleepytime Gorilla Museum Hella Lightning Bolt I will leave it there for now but IMO the music these days is much more interesting than the golden oldies, E.g. Floyd, Yes etc. -------------  http://www.last.fm/user/SHatters/?chartstyle=basic10"> 
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Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 18:29
| It's not that the original bands don't exist, it's that a lot of people actually don't want to listen to them. |
Posted By: enteredwinter
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 19:00
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I'm sure that many would argue with me on some or all of the following bands, but I believe all of these bands are examples of true innovators in modern music. Note that these days a lot of the innovation is a matter of fusing disparate genres, which may be less groundbreaking than creating wholly original music, but is still innovative in my opinion: Tool - created an innovative blend of metal and prog that is really not like anything that came before, in prog-metal or music in general Opeth - fused extreme metal and soft, melodic, proggy music in a way that was never done before The Mars Volta - often, they sound like both a punk band and a prog band, two genres previously thought to be polar opposites Ayreon - with The Human Equation, innovated music by providing the first true rock opera masterpiece (note that I don't consider albums like Tommy and Quadrophenia to be true "rock operas", due to the lack of multiple singers and operatic vocals, both of which are present in Ayreon) Radiohead - created innovative music (nothing before OK Computer and Kid A really sounded like those albums), and influenced an entire generation of musicians, as shown in the similarities between many modern bands and Radiohead ------------- 
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 22:11
Most of those are at least somewhat avant-garde, but there's new stuff in every genre, I think. It's just that the people who are actively searching for things that sound new and different in many cases are drawn to the avant-garde and are speaking from what they know.
I personally think they are just as innovative because I think the original prog are overpraised for their innovation. I don't deny their creativity or that they made good music, but nothing is 100% new, and I think they were influenced by pre-prog music and each other just as much as new creative groups are influenced by existing music. The problem is, perhaps, that in the beginning the famous groups were almost all creative, and now many of the famous groups are famous because they evoke nostalgia for the past.
I also forgot Mr Bungle, Fantomas, Mogwai, and, if the '80s count as new, Art Zoyd. I'm sorry I can't give examples from other genres, but I'm really getting into avant at the moment because of its originality, so my knowledge of obscure other subgenres is lacking.
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Posted By: Drakk
Date Posted: April 20 2007 at 22:31
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I'll add my few cents.
Taal
SubMasq
Kayo Dot
Mike Patton
John Zorn
GY!BE
Severl Japanese Zheul bands
Bottom line is, there are bands that push the barrier, you just have to look for them. ------------- [QUOTE=darkshade] [QUOTE=Sckxyss] I'm disappointed - neither of these players are avant-garde! Al di Meola. [/QUOTE] haha i know. but the poll itself is avant-garde [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: KansasRushDream
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 00:30
| To a small extent, yes, but in the big picture, no. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I think that the only room for true innovation left today is in genre fusing. Progressive Smooth Metal Swing Techno anyone? |
Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 00:30
Pfft you're just closeminded I've recorded 2 albums with 2 different bands that are original, unique and something that has never really been done before. And that's just me some random bum with no musical talent, there are plenty of groundbreaking bands out there you just aren't too likely to hear them, early TMV to me was fairly new and exciting stuff. ------------- 
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 00:34
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One word - KIDA
This album is more innovative than all the prog put together since 1983 ------------- |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 01:25
Minus the techno and you have Diablo Swing Orchestra! (a band I failed to mention before).
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 02:09
Do you mean Kid A by Radiohead? If so, I have to vehemently disagree. If not, what are you talking about? |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 02:10
why? like it or not, its still ground breaking. ------------- |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 02:15
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just heard the remarkable Russian band Aviva.
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 02:15
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It borrows from Boards of Canada and Aphex Twin and electronica in general. It's original, but not original enough to come even close to outweighing everything done since 1983.
Do you really know what has been recorded in the past 10 years alone?
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 02:22
In terms of prog?, there has been nothing that has dropped my jaw in terms of innovation and uniqueness, sure KC is good and Mike Oldfield has released some strong albums, but nothing to change the direction of rock in such a dramatic way, most prog b4 that and OK Computer album was pretty much imitating Genesis and Yes. Listen to Spocks Beard and Flower Kings etc they are just rehashing old ideas whats progressive about them? they are Symphonic Rock but not progressive ------------- |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 02:37
| Yes, Spock's Beard and TFK are awful. I was talking about new groups that are actually original. Most does not equal all, even if that statement were true (and I'm pretty sure it isn't since there were a lot of releases besides retro-symph ones). |
Posted By: Asphalt
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 04:25
Thankfully, there has been more to prog between 83 and Kid A, not just KC, Mike Oldfield and Spocks Beard - not that there's anything wrong with these acts  .As for Radiohead, dozens of other artists have challenged the definition of prog and changed the way its perceived and understood nowadays, most of them tributary in the least to past bands. Such artists include Univers Zero, Watchtower, Talk Talk, Isildurs Bane, Mr. Bungle, Devil Doll, Ulver, John Zorn, Opeth (early years), Arcturus, Estradasphere, GY!BE, Sigur Ros... to name but a few. I'll have to agree though that breakthrough is achieved at the moment by combining as many genres as possible. Bands such as Ephel Duath, Unexpect or The Mars Volta have truly defied even the wildest predictions. However, one has to ask, how much more before there will be a saturation of the whole Post-RIO-Goth-Avant-Thrash-Techno-Power-Fusion phenomena?  |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 12:00
The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard may not be the most original of bands, though I really believe each of them have developed their own set of nuances that set them apart, but the certain thing is that they are not awful.
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Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 13:33
Listen to Bjork, Apex Twin and the Pixies. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 18:05
UV were formed in the 70s. Mars Volta, GYBE, and Sigur Ros are post Radiohead, as for prog metal its outside my sphere. ------------- |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 18:08
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I thought Takk... was rather groundbreaking; a more accessible culmination of absolutely brilliant songs in Sigur Ros's eclectic style. Joanna Newsom's Ys is full of shifting, enchanted folk (I want to say prog but it's so atypical, it defines categorization). ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 21 2007 at 22:57
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GYBE and Sigur Ros started at the same time as OK Computer. Not to mention that your reasoning is flawed because even if there were no creative bands that started from 1983 until 1997, GYBE sounds nothing like Radiohead, so even mentioning them in connection with Radiohead's timeframe is just silly. Even so, the original point was that Kid A is more innovative any everything from 1983 on combined, and GYBE, Taal, 65daysofstatic, Hella, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Mr Bungle, etc. are definately post-1983 and unquestionably very original. I am not saying that Kid A and OK Computer aren't original because even if they were influenced by Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada, Bjork, and The Pixies, everyone is influenced by something; but to say they are the only original group since 1983 only shows incredible ignorance about modern prog.
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Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 02:44
There have been bands and albums that have pioneered ENTIRE GENRES since 1983, do you really expect anyone to be taking you seriously when you say a radiohead album is more innovative than that? -------------
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 06:46
I disagree I see a connection with GYBE and Sigur Ros with Radiohead, as for Bjork I think she's a load of  . I think most contemporary Symphonic prog is rather weak and my views of innovation are clearly different from yours.------------- |
Posted By: arcer
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 07:49
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Hard to say that anyone has done anything truly, truly groundbreaking in the past 10 years. The major giant steps taken in ppopular music were largely defined in the late 60s to late 70s, taking what was a simplistic form and seeing what it could absorb from other genres/forms, injecting elements of jazz, music hall, blues, classical, world music, reggae, basically pushing pop's envelope with any and all influences that could be crammed in.
You could look at this way - pop music in that truly innovative period was almost defined by the technology available. The electric guitar and the burgeoning electronics engineering industry that blossomed around it defined the great leaps forward as much as the songwriting which utilised that technology. From a simple method of making acoustic guitars louder we got every weird and wonderful effect under the sun, better amplification the sonic inspiration of harmonically rich distortion, phase, chorus, wah, flange, whatever. The same is true of keyboard technology, piano, Hamond organ, electric piano, Moog, Mellotron, FM synthesis, sampling, etc etc. The sonic possibilities of these facilitators of expression have all acted as catalysts in the great leaps forward. Where would the British blues boom have been without Jim Marshall, Jim Dunlop, Roger Mayer etc, where would psychedelia have been without the electric sitar, Leslie cabinet, Hammond/Farfisa. Where would prog have been without the mini-Moog, Mellotron, Hammond, where would dance music have been without the Roland TB303, Cubase etc.
This isn't to say that the songwriting is irrelevent in all this. It require sparks of Hendrix-like genius to apply the technology, but there is a parallel with classical music - where harpsichord gave way to clavichord to clavier to full piano, lutes ot guitar, the long evolution of woodwinds and horns - all tech advances that inspired composers to greater and greater compositional feats.
The technology of rock (save for the digital recording, synthesis revoliution of the last 20-25 years) is pretty much defined. The palette is large (anything you want really) but the great explorations with this have alreayd been made.
If there is any real innovation these days it comes from fusing disparate elements into something interesting and provoking.
I'd certainly mention Radiohead in this - from OK Computer on they have taken the palette and done some truly amazing things with it. Recent Porcupine Tree too I'd include, their fusion of a classic rock sensibility with elements of 90s and 2000s trip-hop textures and an old interest in trance and overlaying it with a fascination for the sonic possibilities of death metal is really, really interesting, if only for the dynamic swings Steven Wilson can incorporate into his music.
I haven't heard Mushuggah (one of SW's favourites) but must do so.
There's plenty of ground out there left to explore. Some of it has been mapped in rough form already but the possibility of finding new micro-climates still exists.
If it didn't we'd all have stopped buying records when we heard Axis: Bold As Love.
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Posted By: superprog
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 11:37
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guys for an interesting new take on the prog palette pls check out The Observatory's latest album a Far Cry From Here.............. http://www.theobservatory.com.sg - www.theobservatory.com.sg |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 11:41
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Yes there is. But music has to be more obscure and diffrent today to be original.
There's loads of new RIO/Avant & Post-rock coming. And that sounds pretty original of what i've heard.
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 12:32
But how could GYBE be influenced by Radiohead when f#a#(infinity) had all the elements of their sound and was released the same year as OK Computer. It's impossible to be influenced by something that is released at the same time as your record because albums take at least a year or two to make. And The Bends was a good album, but it wasn't prog; it was My Bloody Valentine meets alt-rock. I never said Bjork was any good, but she did influence Radiohead. In fact, as I recall she is friends with Thom. Again, I'm not saying that they aren't innovative.
I agree that most contemporary symphonic prog is weak. Didn't you see just now when Moatilla was a bit upset that I called TFK awful? At the moment I'm an avant fan, for crying out loud.
With groups that poineered genres (GYBE, Mogwai) and many innovative groups that sound nothing at all like Radiohead (Taal, 65daysofstatic, Hella, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, 65daysofstatic), your statement that Kid A is far and away the absolute most innovative album since 1983 is simply ludicrous.
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Posted By: LeInsomniac
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 13:29
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Hey guys, opinions are opinions, if one says that radiohead is the most innovative since 83 then respect his opinions. I for one think that sleepytime gorilla museum, Godspeed You black emperor, Taal are really more innovative than radiohead, I mean IMO radiohead compared to these is rather simplistic and not innovative although i can hear it and enjoy it.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/LeInsomniac/?chartstyle=volta"> 
Happy Family One Hand Clap, Four Went On But None Came Back |
Posted By: Asphalt
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 15:48
I wasn't reffering to bands before Radiohead, but bands before Kid A, since that was your point of refference. Thus, my argumentation stays. As for GY!BE being connected to Radiohead, I fail to see that, maybe if you could develop a bit more on that. In what way would you say your view of innovation is different from ours? |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 16:06
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Personally I find Kid A/Amnesiac to be very innovative and a different outlook and version of post-rock. I guess it's innovative because it an blend the dynamics and stylistic properties of post-rock and incorporate elements of electronica and alternative. However, I can't say they influenced Godspeed, or the other two. Howeve, it is still very groundbreaking and has been attempted by never recreated. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 16:10
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Robert Wyatt has been constantly evolving with each new album and he's got a new album due out this fall! So that should be pretty awesome. I don't get why people don't like his newer stuff as much, but whatever; he's still as avant-garde as ever There are still some older bands around that are doing newer things, however, the new prog bands around like The Mars Volta etc... are very groundbreaking (don't diss it before you've heard it; if it helps cross out the name of the band on the album and put Yes or Genesis or whatever, and that should kill your bias )But I do have to add that the new prog bands are not your daddy's prog bands, they have actually progressed sonically as to sound different from older musical ideas; I won't say that they are better or worse, but they are definitely progressive and definitely groundbreaking. ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: April 22 2007 at 18:35
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In my opinion, prog will pick itself up again just like metal and folk, they all have a low period for about five years then some new band or a good album will pop up and things will pick up again. ------------- 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: April 23 2007 at 00:15
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Yes there is
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 23 2007 at 01:25
I agree. ------------- |