Nu Prog? WTF
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36473
Printed Date: February 09 2025 at 22:36
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Nu Prog? WTF
Posted By: Proletariat
Subject: Nu Prog? WTF
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 19:40
|
I randomly stumbled upon this wikipedia arctical. I am confused. The bands are ok but "Nu Prog" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_prog - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_prog ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Replies:
Posted By: cookieacquired
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 20:10
|
its an odd term but I'm not sure of your sanity to be wikipediaing this
how did you stumble upon it? ------------- 
|
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 20:14
|
oddd. judging by the bands listed, i'd add a few more--that is, if i agreed with the definition and etcat all...
it is interesting though. wonder who submitted it. ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: Cynic
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 20:21
|
It seems like one of those things where people have to learn that over-classifying doesn't make you any smarter. That just seems like a pointless genre.
-------------  |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 20:23
I wanted to see the wikipedia defonition of prog (because i usually find wiki-defonitions hilarious) and it was listed as a subgenre. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
king volta wrote:Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 21:49
|
Cool! New bands to check out on iTunes. Amplifier is decent. I am listening to them on MySpace. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Inverted
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 22:08
|
I have always though Coheed and Cambria belongs in the Prog-Related family. I find the Mars Volta to be much more Prog. Mew I have herd of from a friend of mine, they, apparently, are quite good. Radiohead's Kid A is pretty good.
------------- Prog... It's good. |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 23:53
Try Oceansize too! |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 09:48
|
Though not an actual genre, the descriptor makes sense. The bands listed are modern progressive rock bands, and are not metal, and have nothing at all to do with the neo-prog sound. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 09:50
|
yes well progressive rock has obviously become too inclusive and broad a term
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:30
|
Seems perfectly legit to me. Tey've grouped together most of the new stuff I don't like and given it a name. Now I've got something to bash.
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:31
|
I don't agree with this at all ... they make it seem like any new prog is automatically related to the indie/alternative scene.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to: 
|
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:34
|
^^I agree. And some of those bands I don't consider prog at all (Coheed and Cambria  being one of them) |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 13:30
|
I quite like that article, and the term 'New Prog' (I'm not so keen on 'Nu' instead of 'New', though). When I first heard the music of Pure Reason Revolution I was searching in my own mind for a term that could be used to describe their music, which is not the same as 'traditional' Progressive or Neo Progressive Rock but is certainly not mainstream pop or pop-rock and has some elements of Progressive Rock. I thought to myself that 'New Prog' would be a good term, only to discover that it was already being used to describe Pure Reason Revolution, Muse, Coheed & Cambria and the like. I can happily live with the term 'New Prog', but 'Nu Prog' just looks naff to me: sort of the antithesis of the supposed relative sophistication of the music, if you catch my drift. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=326" rel="nofollow - Read reviews by Fitzcarraldo |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 13:45
|
^ the list of bands in the wikipedia does not make much sense ... some of the bands are prog, some are not. I don't like this sort of generalisation ... it would be better to at least separate the "complex alternative rock" from the real prog.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 20:21
|
makes some sense... but like Mike said, I'm a bit skeptical about that indie/alternative relation....... but why the hell are TMV listed there? "indie bands who incorporate elements from progressive rock"... TMV don't just have "elements" from prog, they are as prog as prog gets! ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
|
Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 02:30
There is absolutely no disadvantage to having a lot of genres, it allows people to identify music they like and find similar artists much more easily. That said I welcome the 'nu-prog' tag as I don't like those bands and it's a slander much like 'nu-metal' looool. ------------- 
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 02:51
smartest post I've seen in general forum in ages.  Have some clappies ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 04:27
^ says a member of two genre teams who also supports "hard prog" and "eclectic prog" ... 
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: coleio
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 04:54
|
I don't like it that much really. I think they should come and visit PA and just realise that those bands they listed have already been classified and so on.
------------- Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 05:12
there is a thing as classification... and over-classification... I assume you might understand the difference... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 06:27
|
^we each define our own reality ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 06:53
They're supporting Porcupine Tree on their upcoming tour, at least in the UK. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 07:37
ahhh.... never forget though, that some realities are more grounded in the realities of others ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 07:54
^ any fool can create a wikipedia entry.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:00
^ my reality has no knowledge or acknowledgement of Wikipedia. Only of fools who do.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:01
|
is your reality based on anything tangible at all?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:03
very much so..... we can discuss it in private of course.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:06
|
What I mean is that the phrase "New Prog" is not used widely. But the wikipedia page makes it appear like it is ... and by the power of wikipedia and the fact that many people trust it blindly, the phrase might become real.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:09
that is why I have no use of it.. and have never referenced the damn thing... whatever useful correct info they MIGHT have.. can be found elsewhere without doubt of it's authenticity. I remember the kids here created a Velvet Room entry there.... I trust nothing there.. anyone who does.. is the fool you correctly pointed out. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:13
|
^ agreed. Wikipedia is great for presenting verifiable facts, but not opinions. That doesn't mean that genre descriptions or definitions on wikipedia pages generally suck ... but the opinions should be backed by sources, which is simply not possible for such a new genre. For example, you could claim that King Crimson is an Art Rock band when you find many sources (old and new magazines/reviews) which support that statement. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:26
had to quote you..the arrows were driving me batty hahhaha I couldn't agree more. What we deal with here in PA's and with prog in general is opinions. We just had some 8 pages (or so) of discussion about what was best for the site. We are in the position to give because a) we care about the site, b) know enough about prog to make us dangerous, and c) have opinions and the fortitude to stand by them. Was your opinion/proposal wrong.. no... was mine.. no. It is ALL opinion. The same as whatever Wikipedia says... that said...I'd sure as hell consider what you thought more than something on some site like that. If people want to know about prog they come here... If people read something on the internet, especially a site like Wikipedia and believe it to be a fact... they get what they deserve I guess. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:28
Two cents from the Netherlands:
That's a pretty bold statement - declaring this a 'term used to describe xxx', without stating who is actually using it.
That's a challenge for a PA member maybe.... I usually don't believe 100% of what is on Wikipedia - the community gets it right in quite a few cases, but things like this are just to sensitive to subjective reasoning. I mean, given the controversy about genres and subgenres on PA, who's willing to claim that a classification like this published on Wikipedia is objective and generally accepted? Reality is in the eye of the beholder.... ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
This article about a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_genre - music genre is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Perfect_stub_article - stub . You can http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Find_or_fix_a_stub - help Wikipedia by http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=New_Prog&action=edit - expanding it .Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:32
Agreed ... it's the same as believing all you read in newspapers. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:49
|
I like the idea of calling it "Nu" Prog. To me it suggest the likes of Nu Metal. New Prog sounds to 90's to me. Like Modern Rock or Modern Prog.
-------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:53
or what our governments tell us .....  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:56
|
^ unfortunately none of these bands sound like or are influenced by Nu Metal, which makes it even worse.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 08:58
And it makes it worse how?  -------------
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 09:01
|
It just doesn't add up. "New Prog" just means prog by a new generation of musicians ... there is no connection to Nu Metal nor is there any particular bias towards indie/alternative.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 09:06
I certainly hear Indie style. Of course anytime any new sounding rock that comes out I lean that way. Some of the music I have listened to sounds like it has Grunge roots, thus Nu Metal. We can't call it Grunge Prog. -------------
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 09:11
|
^ why not call something Grunge Prog if it's progressive and based on Grunge? Regardless of whether something like that exists or not, it would be better to use two established words to describe it than invent a new word, or abuse a combination of words which is either much more general or means something different.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 09:21
|
Nu-Prog's a reasonable title. Just because you dont agree with the bands named doesnt mean its a bad idea.
NU-Prog....Muse,Radiohead et al...why the heck not?
This "over-classification" argument bugs me. Ok, it can get a bit anal at times but how do you describe or compare different types of Pop music without these classifications?
Comparing Genesis to Elvis shows why we need grand titles like Prog Rock.
Comparing Genesis to Dream Theater demonstrates the need for Prog Genres.
Comparing Genesis to Anglagard is why we need further classification.
These are titles you use or you dont. Every art form has these classifications and only if you think that popular music is not a reasonable topic for study should you be uncomfortable thinking about them.
Inverted Snobbery I think the term is...
 |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 09:21
|
^ Well some of the bands that are coming out may require a different name because they do not fit well into another category. How many Grunge Prog bands would we see in the future? Probably few, based one major element of Grunge is angst, and Fish-Marillion was the last of that, IMO. But other elements, a hard rock, yet not metal sound is evident is some of these newer quasi-Prog bands. They may in fact be part of the future and evolve into definitive Prog. I still think Nu Prog gives them a place to reside as they don't really fit anywhere else. -------------
|
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 09:22
That was going back to Mike's post. -------------
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 09:29
Because neither Muse nor Radiohead sound anything like Limp Bizkuit or Linkin Park. 
I just think that calling all these bands "Nu" is ridiculous ... and calling them "New Prog" without any other connotations is ok, but essentially just saying that they're new bands making prog music, which doesn't tell you much about them. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 14:16
well, nu metal was esentually metal + alternative + rap
nu prog is (according to the article) prog + alternative and i hope not + Rap  ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Badabec
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 14:33
That's awesome! ------------- Mesmo a tristeza da gente era mais bela E além disso se via da janela Um cantinho de céu e o Redentor - Antônio Carlos Jobim, Toquinho & Vinícius de Moraes - Carta ao Tom 74 |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 14:42
OK...like a prog Linkin Park? Sounds decent to me. -------------
|
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 14:46
do you have any idea of how hard it would be to rap over anything not in 4/4, didn't think so. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 14:47
|
^ Pain of Salvation - Used. You can listen to the track for free on their website! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 14:51
|
^^^
well, that does sound like nu metal.
He cant rap that well, but hey, no white man can.
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 14:53
|
I did some Googling. Another link to nu-prog? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nu-prog Nu Prog Fusion? http://www.bigbangmethod.com/ (These guys are good) Uh-oh...emo and nu prog in the same playlist?? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Standing-against-backlash-Emo-Prog/lm/R6GYNZDC72CRU -------------
|
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 14:55
|
Ok that last site scared the flying F*** out of me, what does Panic! at the disco have to do with prog. Shoot me now. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 15:06
Well, I wonder if the drama factor sometimes could be mistaken for progressive. Spin magazine had the balls to call My Chemical Romance the new Queen. -------------
|
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 15:32
All the more reason for it to be Prog! Takes serious talent, not just inflective recital, yes? Actually, I am not a big fan of rap, but Prog rap could change that.  -------------
|
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 15:48
I know, it kills me. MCR has the balls to compare themselves to Pink Floyd.
and yes prog rap might be better, the turntables never reached thier full potental as an actual instrument, There are some more prog-ish rappers out there, but they would never call themselves prog. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 23:35
The sheer audacity for one to formally compare themselves....it speaks volumes about what they don't know. I won't give myself any acknowledge of the turntable reference, merely because I don't know. Percussively...it COULD be a challenge. But it has limits. And I agree. Any rapper self-fulling would never consider himself/herself prog. But that shows where the artist dies. edited for selfish font reasons......... -------------
|
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 23:48
It looks like you guys haven't heard of the Anticon label where Indie Rap galores (not really prog rap, but I can't think of another thing closer to it) Subtle has a song not in 4/4 and it sounds pretty proggy if you ask me. The song is called Middleclass Stomp. And for the Indie Rap I'm talking about then check out Subtle - A New White. I assure you you'll never in your life think that Rap was going to get this far. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 10:28
I dont see the relevance of that statement. Nu Jazz bands dont sound like Limp Bizkit either...
 |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 12:18
I don't think that there are many people who use the term "Nu Jazz" either. There are some (I found the wikipedia page), but in essence it simply means "New Jazz". The word "Nu" was first and foremost used for a particular style of metal in the 1990s ... of course you can simply define "Nu" as "1990s", I just don't see the point. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:00
The point is Mike that you might not know many people who use that term yourself but, for example, Dick Heath who writes for Jazzwise magazine uses it....
...horses for courses and all that....I dont know many people who speak German, but I am damn sure there is at least 85 million people who do...
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:14
|
^ well, at least here at PA I rarely hear the phrase "Nu Prog" ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:20
I dont read " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidisestablishmentarianism - antidisestablishmentarianism " here much either..but....
|
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:22
|
^ that's because Prince George is rarely posting here (and he would have gotten it wrong, but there's no Black Adder here either).
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:29
|
I like the New Prog tag, it's useful when discussing Indie bands with
Prog-ish moments and/or influences. I don't consider it a valid
subgenre of Prog Rock however, because many of the bands that are
commonly labelled New Prog are vastly different from each other and
because most of them aren't really Prog Rock, even if they are
influenced by it and incorporates Prog elements in their music. In my opinion, New Prog is, just like Prog Rock was in the beginning, a kind of movement rather than a distinct style. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:35
Its a proper word (seriously) and was much in use in the 19th century when Genesis released their debut album and the only death metal was the lead used to make pipes for their plumbing...
 |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 15:41
|
^ Gee, I didn't know Genesis were *that* old ... a clear case for "Withered Prog".
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa/aotm-2025-1/vote" rel="nofollow - 2025 Monthly Release Poll Listened to:
|
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 16:02
Yeah their first album was written in 1837, the same year that Steve Vai sold his soul to the devil...
Returning on-topic, there is nothing wrong with members of this site inventing new genres of prog...certianly if we are (to be the) NO1 prog site on the internet we should be leading the way, not self-conciously looking over opur shoulders at what others are doing and saying.
|